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trouble with RealPlayer files on iPaq 1940

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August 31, 2004 3:33:21 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I visited a website on my desktop, and all of the RealPlayer clips played
fine.

When I visited the same site on my iPaq 1940 using it's built-in Internet
Explorer (WM2003, ROM 1.10, RealPlayer for PPC 1.0), 2 of the clips wouldn't
play. I suspect some sort of copy protection here?

I can understand the RealAudio clip files won't play if I "save" them on my
desktop, and copy them to my iPaq, but can't figure out why the clips won't
play on the iPaq when I visit the original site itself (internet connection
via cradle).

any advice would be appreciated

TIA
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 3:12:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Real player for Pocket PC only supports a small subset of the files
the desktop player can play. There's no problem of copy-protection
here.

You can read more about the file type support for PPC on the Real
player forums : http://tinyurl.com/5x53n.

Secifically, it doesn't support .ra real audio files (which is a
*very* odd decision). If you need to do this, you'll need to copy the
stream across to the device using Real player for PC.

The document above is out of date for the newer-than-yours (Player 1.1
preview release) available as it can support Realvideo 9 rather than
the stated Realvideo 8.

http://www.real.com/realmobile/download.html?thanks=tru...


HTH
Cheers - Neil

On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:33:21 -0400, "PS" <psbnez@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I visited a website on my desktop, and all of the RealPlayer clips played
>fine.
>
>When I visited the same site on my iPaq 1940 using it's built-in Internet
>Explorer (WM2003, ROM 1.10, RealPlayer for PPC 1.0), 2 of the clips wouldn't
>play. I suspect some sort of copy protection here?
>
>I can understand the RealAudio clip files won't play if I "save" them on my
>desktop, and copy them to my iPaq, but can't figure out why the clips won't
>play on the iPaq when I visit the original site itself (internet connection
>via cradle).
>
>any advice would be appreciated
>
>TIA
>
>
August 31, 2004 3:21:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

thanks for the info, and you were right on the money since the problem files
are .ra files.

When you say "you'll need to copy the stream across to the device using Real
player for PC", do you mean download the .ra files on my desktop, and then
copy them over to my iPaq 1940? I've tried that, but RealPlayer for PPC 1.0
then hangs when trying to load the copied files. (same freezing occurs when
I try to play the files from directly from within the 1940's Internet
Explorer)

I also tried to install RealPlayer 1.1 beta for PPC, but I get the message
that "you must have ActiveSync 3.1 or later installed. I have 3.7.1
installed on Win2K. Anyone else encounter this installation problem?


TIA


"Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]" <neil@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:p nn8j05acrm9bfurjmqfgbfife1jo9tkqh@4ax.com...
> Real player for Pocket PC only supports a small subset of the files
> the desktop player can play. There's no problem of copy-protection
> here.
>
> You can read more about the file type support for PPC on the Real
> player forums : http://tinyurl.com/5x53n.
>
> Secifically, it doesn't support .ra real audio files (which is a
> *very* odd decision). If you need to do this, you'll need to copy the
> stream across to the device using Real player for PC.
>
> The document above is out of date for the newer-than-yours (Player 1.1
> preview release) available as it can support Realvideo 9 rather than
> the stated Realvideo 8.
>
>
http://www.real.com/realmobile/download.html?thanks=tru...
C%2520Devices
>
>
> HTH
> Cheers - Neil
>
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:33:21 -0400, "PS" <psbnez@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I visited a website on my desktop, and all of the RealPlayer clips played
> >fine.
> >
> >When I visited the same site on my iPaq 1940 using it's built-in Internet
> >Explorer (WM2003, ROM 1.10, RealPlayer for PPC 1.0), 2 of the clips
wouldn't
> >play. I suspect some sort of copy protection here?
> >
> >I can understand the RealAudio clip files won't play if I "save" them on
my
> >desktop, and copy them to my iPaq, but can't figure out why the clips
won't
> >play on the iPaq when I visit the original site itself (internet
connection
> >via cradle).
> >
> >any advice would be appreciated
> >
> >TIA
> >
> >
>
Related resources
Anonymous
August 31, 2004 10:21:04 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I usually find if I download the "wrapper" RealAudio file, I can
specify the file referenced in the wrapper and then it streams
fine....
I have .ram files which wont stream, they just download. Inside the
..ram
file, it references a .rm file. Entering in that URL works fine.

Well, that was until I changed wireless routers. My new wireless
router
doesn't open up the ports used by the PocketPC client. The PocketPC
client documented port range overlaps with the Windows one... but in
reality, they choose wildly different ports. My PC's player has no
problem going through the
router, while my PPC can't with this router. Worse, that this router
doesn't allow for forwarding ranges of ports only 10 individual ports.
So, I can no longer listen to RealAudio on my PPC, due to the new
W-router.


"PS" <psbnez@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<2I0Zc.3599$RP5.2665@fe51.usenetserver.com>...
> thanks for the info, and you were right on the money since the problem files
> are .ra files.
>
> When you say "you'll need to copy the stream across to the device using Real
> player for PC", do you mean download the .ra files on my desktop, and then
> copy them over to my iPaq 1940? I've tried that, but RealPlayer for PPC 1.0
> then hangs when trying to load the copied files. (same freezing occurs when
> I try to play the files from directly from within the 1940's Internet
> Explorer)
>
> I also tried to install RealPlayer 1.1 beta for PPC, but I get the message
> that "you must have ActiveSync 3.1 or later installed. I have 3.7.1
> installed on Win2K. Anyone else encounter this installation problem?
>
>
> TIA
>
>
> "Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]" <neil@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:p nn8j05acrm9bfurjmqfgbfife1jo9tkqh@4ax.com...
> > Real player for Pocket PC only supports a small subset of the files
> > the desktop player can play. There's no problem of copy-protection
> > here.
> >
> > You can read more about the file type support for PPC on the Real
> > player forums : http://tinyurl.com/5x53n.
> >
> > Secifically, it doesn't support .ra real audio files (which is a
> > *very* odd decision). If you need to do this, you'll need to copy the
> > stream across to the device using Real player for PC.
> >
> > The document above is out of date for the newer-than-yours (Player 1.1
> > preview release) available as it can support Realvideo 9 rather than
> > the stated Realvideo 8.
> >
> >
> http://www.real.com/realmobile/download.html?thanks=tru...
> C%2520Devices
> >
> >
> > HTH
> > Cheers - Neil
> >
> > On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:33:21 -0400, "PS" <psbnez@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >I visited a website on my desktop, and all of the RealPlayer clips played
> > >fine.
> > >
> > >When I visited the same site on my iPaq 1940 using it's built-in Internet
> > >Explorer (WM2003, ROM 1.10, RealPlayer for PPC 1.0), 2 of the clips
> wouldn't
> > >play. I suspect some sort of copy protection here?
> > >
> > >I can understand the RealAudio clip files won't play if I "save" them on
> my
> > >desktop, and copy them to my iPaq, but can't figure out why the clips
> won't
> > >play on the iPaq when I visit the original site itself (internet
> connection
> > >via cradle).
> > >
> > >any advice would be appreciated
> > >
> > >TIA
> > >
> > >
> >
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 12:33:15 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:21:34 -0400, "PS" <psbnez@hotmail.com> wrote:

>thanks for the info, and you were right on the money since the problem files
>are .ra files.
>
>When you say "you'll need to copy the stream across to the device using Real
>player for PC", do you mean download the .ra files on my desktop, and then

Yes, but the trick is that you may need to use a program like
'Streambox' if the files come from a media server rather than a web
server (that is, true streaming rather than file download).

>copy them over to my iPaq 1940? I've tried that, but RealPlayer for PPC 1.0
>then hangs when trying to load the copied files. (same freezing occurs when

Do try to update to the 1.1 version of real player (see below) and see
if that helps. Else, you'll need to find a way to convert them to
something which is supported - windaz media for example or wav files
with another player. I'm not confident real have much of a clue here
for PPC although they're pre-eminent on mobile phones. Odd, isn't it ?

>I try to play the files from directly from within the 1940's Internet
>Explorer)
>
>I also tried to install RealPlayer 1.1 beta for PPC, but I get the message
>that "you must have ActiveSync 3.1 or later installed. I have 3.7.1
>installed on Win2K. Anyone else encounter this installation problem?

Yes, if you're running Zone Alarm or XPSP2 then the firewall is likely
blocking the initial connection attempt by the setup software to the
PPC. Again Real weren't much help with this.

It was only when I needed a ZA update and it then asked to grant new
software network access rights, that I spotted the alert.

I'd previously said 'No Access' cause Real can (and do) put software
on ur machine which connects to their websites for updates. I'd prefer
to be in charge of that aspect of my machine ;-)

Cheers - Neil
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 12:35:14 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Sorry , for this I meant : http://tinyurl.com/5vjol : This procedure
does some sort of conversion, not sure what.

>When you say "you'll need to copy the stream across to the device using Real
>player for PC", do you mean download the .ra files on my desktop, and then
>copy them over to my iPaq 1940? I've tried that, but RealPlayer for PPC 1.0
>then hangs when trying to load the copied files. (same freezing occurs when
>I try to play the files from directly from within the 1940's Internet
>Explorer)
September 1, 2004 2:25:35 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

thanks again. you were right about Zone Alarm. Turning it off temporarily
allowed me to install Real Player 1.1 beta with no problems.
(I don't think I'd have ever figured that one out on my own, thanks!)

But with RealPlayer for PPC 1.1 (as with 1.0), I'm finding that I can play
some .rm files and not be able to play other .rm files (from same website,
same page).

I've used dBpowerAMP converter to convert the problematic .rm files to mp3s,
but then it seems somewhat pointless to have RealPlayer installed on my iPaq
at all. (i.e., I ended up converting all of the .rm files to mp3, since I'd
like to play them all from the same software player).

I'll look into this streaming aspect and see if I can find a solution.\

thanks again!



"Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]" <neil@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:2ko9j01qibdv4i8onjf9dl62g2u6v86d5e@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:21:34 -0400, "PS" <psbnez@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >thanks for the info, and you were right on the money since the problem
files
> >are .ra files.
> >
> >When you say "you'll need to copy the stream across to the device using
Real
> >player for PC", do you mean download the .ra files on my desktop, and
then
>
> Yes, but the trick is that you may need to use a program like
> 'Streambox' if the files come from a media server rather than a web
> server (that is, true streaming rather than file download).
>
> >copy them over to my iPaq 1940? I've tried that, but RealPlayer for PPC
1.0
> >then hangs when trying to load the copied files. (same freezing occurs
when
>
> Do try to update to the 1.1 version of real player (see below) and see
> if that helps. Else, you'll need to find a way to convert them to
> something which is supported - windaz media for example or wav files
> with another player. I'm not confident real have much of a clue here
> for PPC although they're pre-eminent on mobile phones. Odd, isn't it ?
>
> >I try to play the files from directly from within the 1940's Internet
> >Explorer)
> >
> >I also tried to install RealPlayer 1.1 beta for PPC, but I get the
message
> >that "you must have ActiveSync 3.1 or later installed. I have 3.7.1
> >installed on Win2K. Anyone else encounter this installation problem?
>
> Yes, if you're running Zone Alarm or XPSP2 then the firewall is likely
> blocking the initial connection attempt by the setup software to the
> PPC. Again Real weren't much help with this.
>
> It was only when I needed a ZA update and it then asked to grant new
> software network access rights, that I spotted the alert.
>
> I'd previously said 'No Access' cause Real can (and do) put software
> on ur machine which connects to their websites for updates. I'd prefer
> to be in charge of that aspect of my machine ;-)
>
> Cheers - Neil
>
September 1, 2004 2:34:33 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

thanks, this looked promising. after following the directions, I still
cannot play some files.


"Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]" <neil@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:22p9j0hjm56methq4sda0t49u96ebsdr5n@4ax.com...
> Sorry , for this I meant : http://tinyurl.com/5vjol : This procedure
> does some sort of conversion, not sure what.
>
> >When you say "you'll need to copy the stream across to the device using
Real
> >player for PC", do you mean download the .ra files on my desktop, and
then
> >copy them over to my iPaq 1940? I've tried that, but RealPlayer for PPC
1.0
> >then hangs when trying to load the copied files. (same freezing occurs
when
> >I try to play the files from directly from within the 1940's Internet
> >Explorer)
>
Anonymous
September 1, 2004 4:14:52 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I'm not sure to suggest. What port range are you seeing the PPC trying
to connect on ? It only does rtsp streams, so that should be ports 554
and 7070 which need to be passed through to your PPC.

What may be happening is your router is forwarding those ports but for
*TCP only*. RTSP used by real player generally uses UDP ports
(connectionless) for streaming.

So you need to check your routers manual and ensure that you allow
both those ports through over UDP and TCP protocols.

Given that your router is unnecessarily restrictive in allowing 10
port ranges to be used, you need a new device. I use freesco
http://www.freesco.org on an old 486/33 with 2 network cards for this,
and it works very well. (I can also do PPTP private network over the
internet to where I work, and I use IRC and netmeeting on it too ;-)

You can probably get a 486 PC with 32 meg free from any PC junk shop.

Hope that helps (probably not !) Cheers - Neil

On 31 Aug 2004 18:21:04 -0700, danr_18@yahoo.com (Daniel Rosenzweig)
wrote:

> My new wirelessrouter
>doesn't open up the ports used by the PocketPC client. The PocketPC
>client documented port range overlaps with the Windows one... but in
>reality, they choose wildly different ports. My PC's player has no
>problem going through the
>router, while my PPC can't with this router. Worse, that this router
>doesn't allow for forwarding ranges of ports only 10 individual ports.
> So, I can no longer listen to RealAudio on my PPC, due to the new
>W-router.
Anonymous
September 4, 2004 10:53:23 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Thanks...

I've gone through all this before... I used a packet sniffer to see
what ports are being used... Each time a tranfer is started, an rtsp
conversation goes on and the client tells the server which ports to
use. The ports you mention are only for the rtsp negotiation, not the
actual data stream. Real's site explains what goes on -- but it was
pretty obvious looking at the RTSP packets themselves(they're plain
english text) even before I found the info on Real's site.
Using a packet sniffer on my PC, I could see that the port ranges were
radically different (the PPCs ports were about 10x higher than the
PCs)...
even though the PCs range, according to Real's website, does include
those higher ports.... If you want to forward all the ports for
RealPlayer, you're
fowarding a VERY large range of ports!

I even got a hold of someone who had access to the Real PocketPC
client's sourcecode. He told me what registry settings to change...to
specify which ports to use (the PC version has a UI screen to do it)
it didn't work. I confirmed with him that I did it correctly. The
problem is that he didn't have an actual PPC to test with.

I can't get a new router... as the router which is causing the problem
is a VOIP router... the only one supported by my VOIP provider. Thus,
if I change routers, I lose phone service... I could technically turn
off the router /DHCP in the VOIP box... but speaking to the router's
tech support - that could
open up vulnerabilites in the VOIP part of the box. I've spoken to
different levels of both tech support (provider/router) to no avail --
other than to keep my eye out for new firmware... but they don't have
port ranges on their future feature list yet.

I don't remember the page I had before, but this lists which
ports need to be opened in firewalls (PC version - at least)
http://service.real.com/firewall/proxycfg.html

I can't find the RTSP URL right now.
====
Click on the first RealAudio in the list and click Edit. Initial
connection should be on port 554, type should be set to TCP out bound.
Highlight and remove all entries in the "Port ranges for subsequent
connections."
Click Add, then add UDP 6970-32000 inbound and select OK.
Clid Add, then add TCP 6970-32000 inbound and select OK.
Click on the only remaining RealAudio in the list and click Edit.
Initial connection should be on Port 7070 outbound, Type should be set
to TCP.
Highlight and remove all entries in the "Port ranges for subsequent
connections."
Click Add, then add TCP 6970-7170 inbound and select OK.
Click Add again, then add UDP 6970-7170 inbound and select OK.
====
"Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]" <neil@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<clfbj09pj94e82n8vuvgl22vns0kgddiou@4ax.com>...
> I'm not sure to suggest. What port range are you seeing the PPC trying
> to connect on ? It only does rtsp streams, so that should be ports 554
> and 7070 which need to be passed through to your PPC.
>
> What may be happening is your router is forwarding those ports but for
> *TCP only*. RTSP used by real player generally uses UDP ports
> (connectionless) for streaming.
>
> So you need to check your routers manual and ensure that you allow
> both those ports through over UDP and TCP protocols.
>
> Given that your router is unnecessarily restrictive in allowing 10
> port ranges to be used, you need a new device. I use freesco
> http://www.freesco.org on an old 486/33 with 2 network cards for this,
> and it works very well. (I can also do PPTP private network over the
> internet to where I work, and I use IRC and netmeeting on it too ;-)
>
> You can probably get a 486 PC with 32 meg free from any PC junk shop.
>
> Hope that helps (probably not !) Cheers - Neil
>
> On 31 Aug 2004 18:21:04 -0700, danr_18@yahoo.com (Daniel Rosenzweig)
> wrote:
>
> > My new wirelessrouter
> >doesn't open up the ports used by the PocketPC client. The PocketPC
> >client documented port range overlaps with the Windows one... but in
> >reality, they choose wildly different ports. My PC's player has no
> >problem going through the
> >router, while my PPC can't with this router. Worse, that this router
> >doesn't allow for forwarding ranges of ports only 10 individual ports.
> > So, I can no longer listen to RealAudio on my PPC, due to the new
> >W-router.
Anonymous
September 5, 2004 3:07:27 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On 4 Sep 2004 18:53:23 -0700, danr_18@yahoo.com (Daniel Rosenzweig)
wrote:

>Thanks...
>
>I've gone through all this before... I used a packet sniffer to see
>what ports are being used... Each time a tranfer is started, an rtsp
>conversation goes on and the client tells the server which ports to
>use. The ports you mention are only for the rtsp negotiation, not the

Yes, I didn't mention that because it's usually the first point of
failure (inability to establish a negotiation with the streaming
server)

>actual data stream. Real's site explains what goes on -- but it was
>those higher ports.... If you want to forward all the ports for
>RealPlayer, you're
>fowarding a VERY large range of ports!

OK well the only thing I can suggest really is to install a RTSP proxy
on your router. Again, freesco and most linux based routers have a
kernel module which you just activate (or install the module if
required). The proxy understands the RTSP negotiation and determines
the required ports to open and forward to the designated computer.

This (stateful router / firewall) implements the port negotiation
which you would otherwise do by adding static port ranges for
subsequent connections - as you've listed below from the real player
site.

>I even got a hold of someone who had access to the Real PocketPC
>client's sourcecode. He told me what registry settings to change...to
>specify which ports to use (the PC version has a UI screen to do it)
>it didn't work. I confirmed with him that I did it correctly. The
>problem is that he didn't have an actual PPC to test with.

Realnetworks don't really support the PPC player in any meaningful
way, so I can imagine, it's quite frustrating.

>I can't get a new router... as the router which is causing the problem
>is a VOIP router... the only one supported by my VOIP provider. Thus,
>if I change routers, I lose phone service... I could technically turn
>off the router /DHCP in the VOIP box... but speaking to the router's
>tech support - that could

Yes, well I suppose you could always DIY on the VoIP part of the
service (unless you're using voip network connected phones rather than
PCs for calls). It would give you more control in the long run.

Or, you set up two networks (subnet it) so 'normal' traffic comes into
a internet facing router, and onto your network, and the rest gets
filtered and sent over to the VoiP router. All seems a lot of work
just to watch real player videos on a PPC though !

>open up vulnerabilites in the VOIP part of the box. I've spoken to
>different levels of both tech support (provider/router) to no avail --
>other than to keep my eye out for new firmware... but they don't have
>port ranges on their future feature list yet.

>I don't remember the page I had before, but this lists which
>ports need to be opened in firewalls (PC version - at least)
>http://service.real.com/firewall/proxycfg.html
>
>I can't find the RTSP URL right now.
>====
>Click on the first RealAudio in the list and click Edit. Initial
>connection should be on port 554, type should be set to TCP out bound.
>Highlight and remove all entries in the "Port ranges for subsequent
>connections."
>Click Add, then add UDP 6970-32000 inbound and select OK.
>Clid Add, then add TCP 6970-32000 inbound and select OK.
>Click on the only remaining RealAudio in the list and click Edit.
>Initial connection should be on Port 7070 outbound, Type should be set
>to TCP.
>Highlight and remove all entries in the "Port ranges for subsequent
>connections."
>Click Add, then add TCP 6970-7170 inbound and select OK.
>Click Add again, then add UDP 6970-7170 inbound and select OK.
!