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Socket AM2 or whatever AMD are calling it now!!

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December 22, 2005 1:21:17 PM

Is it worth waiting when upgrading my current computer to an AMD X2 3800+???

This socket change over has me puzzled, why are they doing it and will it make any difference apart from making it very expensive to replace my processor if it dies after the sockets change??

More about : socket am2 amd calling

December 22, 2005 4:31:54 PM

Why not... didn't you buy a 939 socket to ensure futureproofing and upgradability to newer CPU when they'll become available??

Sorry, but back in time, when peoples where asking if they should go socket 754 or 939.. peoples always pointed to the fact that socket 939 will be compatible with new CPU.. So, here we go again..

My answer is, do you feel the need for dual core right now ? Answering this question should answer the other.
December 23, 2005 11:20:15 AM

True but I am impatient and still using a Socket A Athlon 2800+!! lol!!
Does anyone know why they are changing it though?? I am curious as to why they can't just settle for one socket design and stick to it.
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December 23, 2005 12:15:41 PM

the next socket change won't be compatible with the one currently.

Why thay change? Easy.. They are using the latest thechnology to keep on because us customers always want more...

Want an example?? DDR1 memory is plenty for AMD right now.. But.. how many time do you see that DDR2 is better?? There is no such thing as good or bad or fast or slow memory.. If the memory bandwidth can saturate the CPU, the memory does its job.

But DDR2 will have major advantage over DDR1. Mainly the power needed to run. They'll use less power than DDR1 and with company more an more concerned about power management in moern computer, it is something that will help to design quieter and cooler computer. And that's good

Should you upgrade or not. The next CPU won't offer much more that DDR2 support. So, if you buy something right now, then you'll have something that will last you some time for sure.

The queation you should ask too is, do I upgrade because I feel the need for more or if I'm only impressed by benchmark that gives artificials result far from real life uses..?
December 23, 2005 12:31:31 PM

Well its definately not for the benchmarks as I don't really play any of the games that are typically used to benchmark. I tend to go for games such as Silent Hunter 3, so I guess that I just want the best performance possible because I hate the fact that the computer takes so long to boot and that the graphics are jerky when at the highest setting.

I guess there is no need to have a shiny new computer really but its nice to have shiny new things!!
December 26, 2005 3:27:15 AM

id say stick to the 939 and overclock it. When i built my comp nearly 4 years ago, I got the socket A and a 1600 XP and unlocked it. Its running stable at 2.07 Ghz. I still can run games like doom 3, but at a the cost of lower resolution and detail. So in a way, i can say that ive sucessfully squeezed all my moneys worth from it and it held up for 4 yrs. Now after a few generations of AMD cpus, I just built a 939 with a venice running at 2.3 ghz. This should last me for a while, plus i got more room for over clock, it ran stable at 2.7, but i dont want it running that high since it does get kinda hot. Ill do that when i got H2O cooling. So thats my advice and thats what i would do. The next comp ill build is maybe when they release those quad cores in 09 lol. Until then, this beast will take on everyting i feed at it.
December 26, 2005 4:29:13 AM

A new graphics card might be a better alternative. I'm not sure about SH3, but 95% of modern games are heavily GPU dependant. So far only a few games have been optimised for dual cores/processors, and hyperthreading for P4's, like the new Quake IV patch. The Quake IV benchmarks clearly show the advantage of dual over single when this patch is applied :

Gamershell quote - 'Players who have a system with one of these configurations will notice performance gains in QUAKE 4 of anywhere from 25% - 87% depending on processor type.'



SH3 Recommended System Requirements
System: 2 GHz CPU or equivalent
RAM: 1024 MB
Video Memory: 128 MB
Hard Drive Space: 2000 MB

Your Athlon 2800 (2.08Ghz) fits within these specs. Recommended specs pretty much allow for maximum game settings. So if your mainly worried about SH3 game play, then upgrade the graphics card and or system RAM.

Keep in mind that multi-threaded games (dual core optimised) will be scarce for at least the next year or so, and by that time an X2 3800+ will probably be half the current price.

As for slow boot up, do you regularly do a disk cleanup followed be a defrag on your HDD? If you do, then an increase in system RAM can help a little as well as a faster HDD such as a Western Digital Raptor SATA drive. Just make sure you have SATA on your motherboard.
December 26, 2005 6:27:49 AM

also, instead of the 3800+ you could go lower budget and get the single core Opteron 146 (i think thats the right number) that is 1.8ghz 1MB L2 and socket 939. they do about 2.8ghz on air EASY. 160 USDollars and faster than the 1100 FX57...

But RAM and video are likely more what ya need...

HideOut
December 26, 2005 8:44:50 AM

Great suggestion :-)

Opterons ROCK!!!

So do the 939's tho.
December 26, 2005 10:24:38 AM

I personally believe that the new chips will offer 1-5% more performance compared to its 939 counterparts. Besides the new RAM standard, the only real difference will be that the new chips dissipate 95 watts and the current 939s do 89 watts. Since AMD will still be producing 939 chips until the end of 06, It can go either way for you. I am buying 939 in Feb cuz I will be using a proven platform with minimal bugs and it has well known performance standards. I dont know if M2 is worth the wait or how much teething problems it will have. If you look at AMDs history, they never let the cat out the bag at one time. Socket M2 will probobly be around for 3-5 years and if you get on board now, I bet you will have to switch motherboards and CPUs at least once or twice. When M2 is a mature platform I'm sure it will be definite improvement over todays 939 CPUs. I bet a 2ghz M2 will perform better than a 2.2 ghz 939 one day. But for the next 2 years, I dont see any reason for a 939 user to upgrade. If the chips cost the same, then say you should wait till May. if they are more expensive and you want to upgrade now, get on the 939 bandwagon. Either way, you will be upgrading again in two years whether you have 939 or M2.
December 26, 2005 10:27:31 AM

Give the man a prize :trophy:

I totally agree :-)
December 26, 2005 10:49:16 AM

Tell me about it. Imagine those original P4 users who had the willamette core 400 Mhz bus SDR chips. I know alot of them jumped on the 533 Mhz CPUs with DDR support. Like, 8 months later the 800mhz chips came out and required new motherboards. That totally sucked. Then hyperthreading came out a few months later. Being an Intel fan totally blows. I have this funny feeling that AMD is starting to do the same thing with M2. I can imagine the forst chips having 533 or 677 Mhz DDR-2 support. Then they will shrink the chips to 65 nm. Then there will be 800 mhz DDR-2 support. Then 1066 Mhz support. Then some other crap. All changes will require a new mobo probobly.
December 26, 2005 4:58:34 PM

There is no doubt from speculations and news of the new AMD DDR2 mobo will require a new m/board. They were trying not to do this but it seems as though new processors will be out to, next generation of AMD 64 processors that will be capable of supporting 800mhz+ FSB! Codenames are known to be Windsor for Dual Core processor and San Diego for Single Core. A new FX-59 processor is out next year early quarter for socket 939 mobo but after that AMD will be launching a whole series of new processors.

I was going to be upgrading this year but after hearing this news I won't be. Your best bet if anyone wishes to upgrade wait till February next year 2006 for 1000+ FSB mobo and OCZ memory to go with it... timings I think were 8-3-3-2 with 1000 mhz not your standard 400mhz we have now :D 

^^ If what wrote is wrong then I apologise but I got it from a good source :wink:
December 26, 2005 5:32:01 PM

Problem is, whenever one would want to upgrade to socket 939, he is advised against because some say the it won't be able to reuse the ddr1 memory with newer ddr2 motherboard.. So, if AMD don't want to loose customers, then they have to listen and give them what they want.. Now, the buzz is all about ddr2, so AMD is going that way..

Believe me, if everybody would have been happy with socket 754 back at the time and not mind about going to 939 to be able to upgrade to faster CPU, then AMD would have done faster 754.. and 939 would not have been marketed.. But.. dual channel is more impressive feature than siingle so it is better..Yeah.. Now, the same is happenning.. people say that ddr2 is better, which is not really true, so they'll want ddr2 and AMD will gave them ddr2..

Don't forget that AMD, Intel' ... are there to do money.. and they'll do anything to do money.. no matter what everybody will say..

Who here, with a business, do it only for the customer and don't care about not making money??
December 26, 2005 5:45:26 PM

You won't be able to reuse DDR1 memory with the new mobos thats is something that AMD have become clear about in recent news. DDR2 have a different number of pins and although AMD were trying to get DDR2 the same as DDR1 (pins) that was not the case in the end.

If you want to upgrade to DDR2 and new mobos you have to get rid of DDR1 memory unfortunately which is what I will be doing :cry: 
December 27, 2005 2:37:37 AM

Its definitely going to get weird now with these CPUs. Nobody is going to ramp up clock speeds anymore. AMD is not going above 3 ghz any time soon. I dont think Intel will be able to go above 4 ghz even with 65nm production. GPUs are whats now pushing the gaming industry and if ATI has its way, GPUs will also start to do CPU intensive tasks like video encoding (they are already assiting in video decoding). I think there is more pressure than ever on the CPU companies to only give us incremental improvements over time. Just like intel did with its P4 series of chips. They will just keep on trying to get suckers to buy new shit every 6 months to a year. I guarantee that much. The best thing one can do to insulate yourself from all of this BS is to get a 16x PCI-e mobo, a dual core 939 chip and just upgrade the graphics card once every year and a half. Then anyone will be all set. Screw this new mobo/CPU every year crap!
December 27, 2005 4:01:25 AM

been using a duron 900 for umm god i dunno how long now - just now upgrading - this system has served me quite well indeed - now i plan on upgrading to socket 754 - going with a higher end Sempron - that system will also serve me quite well - pick your components wisely, dont worry about pouring over to many benchmarks - if your aren't a professional where "time is money" you can get 1 heck of a deal

keep waiting for that "new" CPU and you will find it costs alot more than the normal sane person wants to spend :) 

or just get a decent upgrade now - if you want to be a little more future prof (whatever that "really" means) go with a socket 939

if our luck holds out the next socket 939 chip wont be compatible with all the current motherboards due to some revision policy or FSB issue so M2 wont be an issue either (might have to upgrade the motherboard for a new 939, definately for the M2) the future will tell i spose

who knows - both AMD and Intel Has done this (more than i care to mention)

wheres the news that says we will all GREATLY benifit from dual CPU/Core setups??

get a low/mid range 939 CPU like now - they are priced pretty well - upgrade to a dual core 939 when you know if/when it will really give you a real performance gain

unless you really want a dual core for no other reason than, its a new toy (i do this myself sometimes)

upgrades are almost always a good thing (so long as you dont skimp in the wrong areas) im pretty sure you will be happy with whatever you get :) 
December 27, 2005 6:52:25 AM

I thought about the same thing. Since the performance of the sempron is so close to the A64 why not? But then I realized that S754 is a dead end for sure. The sempron line is going to the 939 platform very soon. I think thats why AMD discontinued making the A64 3000 and 3200 CPUs. I doubt the sempron line on theS754 platform will bo beyond 2.2 Ghz. The A64 3000 performs better at gaming than the Sempron 3400 and just a little behind on video encoding. The difference is as little as 6 dollars depending on where you buy. I like the sempron line. They run really cool too (62 watts). I just think its a dead end. If they were cheaper then i would definitely bite.
January 11, 2006 1:57:53 AM

Quote:
I thought about the same thing. Since the performance of the sempron is so close to the A64 why not? But then I realized that S754 is a dead end for sure. The sempron line is going to the 939 platform very soon. I think thats why AMD discontinued making the A64 3000 and 3200 CPUs. I doubt the sempron line on theS754 platform will bo beyond 2.2 Ghz. The A64 3000 performs better at gaming than the Sempron 3400 and just a little behind on video encoding. The difference is as little as 6 dollars depending on where you buy. I like the sempron line. They run really cool too (62 watts). I just think its a dead end. If they were cheaper then i would definitely bite.


Yea that happened to me about a year ago but being the young and know it all at 15 lol I went on the S754 bandwagon when I should have gone to S939 in it's earlier stages. I am debating on quickly upgrading to S939 before there worth nothing and trying to hold on to what I have for as long as possible. There is really no way to stay ahead of the game for that long as new technologies come out all the time. You can do one of two things. Buying a Mid or High End Machine, use it as long as possible, OCing and squeezing every last bit of frame you can get out of it till it's worth 2 cents on Ebay or research the latest products soon to come and try to make smart choices for upgrades in the future. If I had of known S754 would have been dead so soon, when they said "Your total comes to $1200.00" I would have replied "Go to hell! Socket 939 for me!"
So what I suggest doing is going 939, getting a decent/high end machine depending on your budget and making it last as long as you can because unless your one of those people who needs all the lastest stuff I'm sure the 2nd/3rd best stuff is almost just as good.
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January 11, 2006 7:26:06 AM

I'll bet via comes out with a chipset that will allow m2 users to keep their regular ddr. They did it with socket 775, so why not amd?
January 11, 2006 7:28:17 AM

Quote:
I'll bet via comes out with a chipset that will allow m2 users to keep their regular ddr. They did it with socket 775, so why not amd?


you can't :?

For Intel platform, memory controller is in the north bridge.
For AMD platform, memory controller is in the CPU.
January 11, 2006 10:14:36 AM

my advise...buy an amd 64 3700+, it's not expensive in comparison with dual core and/or higher cpu's, but it will serve you a loooong time and give you excellent performance. you even could overclock it, but for gaming purposes that won't even be necessary till later,


greetz
January 11, 2006 7:34:05 PM

I actually have the same question about the DDR2- people say wait, but what am I really waiting for? I have an athlon 2700xp, and I want to take a dip in the cool 64 chip waters w/ the 4000+ san diego. When is the DDR2 support going to show up in retail? Do I have to wait for a new AMD chip and a new mobo to support it and the ddr2 memory? Time is on my side, and I know that waiting is the best possible thing, but sometime soon I'll actually want to buy a CPU..
January 11, 2006 8:10:21 PM

It seems perusing through this thread, that people still don't understand the DDR1/2 M2/939 thing, so let me lay it down (I don't mean to be arrogant).

All existing DDR 1 Modules will not work with future Socket AM2 (s940) motherboards because 1) DDR2 has 240 Pins vs. DDR 1 having 184. 2) This isn't really a reason, but the Memory Controller in sAM2 Processors is going to be a FSB of 333MHz vs. 200MHz now (Thus granting 1:1 ratio of FSB/CPU with DDR 2 667 Memory)

I believe the reason AMD waited on DDR 2 was not only because they wanted to squeeze the max performance out of DDR 1, but because they wanted to maintain the 1:1 ratio with the RAM/FSB, as Intel has definately abandoned that (DDR 2 667 Memory in a P4 3.0GHz for instance, results in something like 16:5 FSB/RAM Ratio). In doing so, they are able to get the most performance w/o faulty DDR 2 Memory Modules.

As for "Future-Proofing", if you own anything less or equal to a s462 (Athlon XP's/Sempron 32-bit), I suggest getting a s939 3500+ - 4000+ and being happy with it. If you wish to be a little more "Future-Proof", get a s939 Dual-Core 3800+ or 4400+, as those would be the equivalent of Dual 3200+ Venice or Dual 3700+ San Diego Respectively. Either way, I suggest waiting a few months to upgrade if you plan to from a s939, as the faster CPU's for M2 (FX-62 & 5200+) will be coming out shortly and lowering the prices on the first AM2 CPU's coming out (4200+ - 4800+).
January 11, 2006 10:05:51 PM

Quote:
The other advantage DDR2 has is for 2x1GB overclockers. Something DDR1 is seriously lacking right now.


Im finding pages of 2 x 1GB overclocking sticks for DDR...you thinkin way back or something?

HIde
January 12, 2006 12:14:24 AM

Until games become multi-threaded bud.

I was hearing M2 is going to be 940pin. However not compatible with current 940 boards *figures*

I would see how price to preformance goes. I see AMD is going to be raising the HT from 200 to 333mhz. So expect some very significant gains in CPU processing power.

Also, I known several people still sitting on their 2200+. So dont get to impatient with that 2800. Not much longer and you'll have all your information for an educated purpose.

BTW: My 1GB sticks of PDP preformance do 280mhz @ 3-3-3-7. :D 
January 12, 2006 1:14:48 AM

Quote:

I was hearing M2 is going to be 940pin. However not compatible with current 940 boards *figures*


Not hard to figure.. newer will use ddr2 while old one are ddr1..
January 17, 2006 9:46:00 PM

Seriously, there are tons of TCCD based sticks in the 2 x 1 catagory that do 500 OCs easy.

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