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Some clients cannot reach NT4 DHCP server, but reach the PDC

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August 1, 2004 2:21:46 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.protocol.tcpip (More info?)

I volunteer as an admin at my kids school. We have a network of about 50
PC's all running XP Pro, all up to date, and a server running NT 4. The NT4
is a PDC, running the DHCP server and MS Proxy Server. All of the XP PC's
are set to obtain IP address automatically.

Everything has been working fine for a few years - until about last week.
Now some PC's can no longer obtain an IP address from the DHCP server -
instead they get a 169.*.*.* address. But there are other PC's that *can*
sucessfully obtain an IP address from the DHCP server.

The PC's that cannot get an IP address from DHCP do seem to be able to get
to the server however - I can log into those PC's and it will validate the
password and run the user's login script off the server.

I thought perhaps it was a network cable or hub, but it doesn't seem to be
the cause since they can get to the server to validate their login/password,
and the PC's can see the shares of other PC's that have also been assigned
the 169.*.*.* addresses.

I also tried assigning one of the PC's an IP address in the same subnet as
the server, but I was still not able to ping the server after doing that! I
can't figure out why it can access the server over the network to validate
the login and run the login script, but then cannot ping the server with the
assigned IP address. It doesn't make any sense!
Anonymous
August 2, 2004 9:17:44 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.protocol.tcpip (More info?)

"JJ" <jjjj@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:u7EgK52dEHA.720@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...

> .... We have a network of about 50
> PC's all running XP Pro, all up to date, and a server running NT 4. The
NT4
> is a PDC, running the DHCP server and MS Proxy Server. All of the XP PC's
> are set to obtain IP address automatically.
>
> Everything has been working fine for a few years - until about last week.
> Now some PC's can no longer obtain an IP address from the DHCP server -
> instead they get a 169.*.*.* address. But there are other PC's that *can*
> sucessfully obtain an IP address from the DHCP server.

What does the DHCP server have to say about what's happening? Stats, errors
logged, etc?


> The PC's that cannot get an IP address from DHCP do seem to be able to get
> to the server however - I can log into those PC's and it will validate the
> password and run the user's login script off the server.

2 questions:

- Are there any protocols other than TCP/IP running on the network? (eg
NetBEUI, IPX/SPX?)

- Are you sure the workstations aren't logging on using cached credentials?
(Check the workstation System logs.)


> .... I also tried assigning one of the PC's an IP address in the same
subnet
> as the server, but I was still not able to ping the server after doing
that!
> I can't figure out why it can access the server over the network to
validate
> the login and run the login script, but then cannot ping the server with
> the assigned IP address. It doesn't make any sense!

I can't see how that can happen either, unless you accidentally assigned an
address already allocated (by DHCP) to another host.

--
David Brownridge
August 2, 2004 9:17:45 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.protocol.tcpip (More info?)

> What does the DHCP server have to say about what's happening? Stats,
errors
> logged, etc?

It doesn't show any errors in the event viewer.

> - Are there any protocols other than TCP/IP running on the network? (eg
> NetBEUI, IPX/SPX?)

No IPX/SPX. NetBEUI is possible.

>
> - Are you sure the workstations aren't logging on using cached
credentials?
> (Check the workstation System logs.)
>

That's possibly why it looks like it is validating my password. I didn't
know it cached that. If it is checking it against cache, then I suppose it
could be possible that a hub is bad after all.

>
> I can't see how that can happen either, unless you accidentally assigned
an
> address already allocated (by DHCP) to another host.
>

I don't think the address I used was in use, but if a hub is bad (or cable
to a hub), that might explain it.

"David Brownridge" <DVD@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:o mtm6w$dEHA.3392@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> "JJ" <jjjj@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:u7EgK52dEHA.720@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
> > .... We have a network of about 50
> > PC's all running XP Pro, all up to date, and a server running NT 4. The
> NT4
> > is a PDC, running the DHCP server and MS Proxy Server. All of the XP
PC's
> > are set to obtain IP address automatically.
> >
> > Everything has been working fine for a few years - until about last
week.
> > Now some PC's can no longer obtain an IP address from the DHCP server -
> > instead they get a 169.*.*.* address. But there are other PC's that
*can*
> > sucessfully obtain an IP address from the DHCP server.
>
> What does the DHCP server have to say about what's happening? Stats,
errors
> logged, etc?
>
>
> > The PC's that cannot get an IP address from DHCP do seem to be able to
get
> > to the server however - I can log into those PC's and it will validate
the
> > password and run the user's login script off the server.
>
> 2 questions:
>
> - Are there any protocols other than TCP/IP running on the network? (eg
> NetBEUI, IPX/SPX?)
>
> - Are you sure the workstations aren't logging on using cached
credentials?
> (Check the workstation System logs.)
>
>
> > .... I also tried assigning one of the PC's an IP address in the same
> subnet
> > as the server, but I was still not able to ping the server after doing
> that!
> > I can't figure out why it can access the server over the network to
> validate
> > the login and run the login script, but then cannot ping the server with
> > the assigned IP address. It doesn't make any sense!
>
> I can't see how that can happen either, unless you accidentally assigned
an
> address already allocated (by DHCP) to another host.
>
> --
> David Brownridge
>
>
>
>
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Anonymous
August 2, 2004 11:22:00 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.protocol.tcpip (More info?)

Try logging on with an account that's never logged onto that PC or
change the password on your domain account, then try logging on to one
of the problem systems, using the new password. Both of will fail, if
the problem system is unable to contact a domain controller and is using
cached credentials to authenticate logons.

NT used to pop up a message when it used cached credentials to
authenticate a logon. For some reason MS changed that in W2k and,
apparently, in XP. In W2k, there is a registry poke you can use to turn
the message back on (search MS's site for ReportControllerMissing).
However, I find no mention of this poke working in XP.

On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:43:46 -0400, "JJ" <jjjj@nospam.com> wrote:

>> What does the DHCP server have to say about what's happening? Stats,
>errors
>> logged, etc?
>
>It doesn't show any errors in the event viewer.
>
>> - Are there any protocols other than TCP/IP running on the network? (eg
>> NetBEUI, IPX/SPX?)
>
>No IPX/SPX. NetBEUI is possible.
>
>>
>> - Are you sure the workstations aren't logging on using cached
>credentials?
>> (Check the workstation System logs.)
>>
>
>That's possibly why it looks like it is validating my password. I didn't
>know it cached that. If it is checking it against cache, then I suppose it
>could be possible that a hub is bad after all.
>
>>
>> I can't see how that can happen either, unless you accidentally assigned
>an
>> address already allocated (by DHCP) to another host.
>>
>
>I don't think the address I used was in use, but if a hub is bad (or cable
>to a hub), that might explain it.
>
>"David Brownridge" <DVD@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
>news:o mtm6w$dEHA.3392@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>> "JJ" <jjjj@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:u7EgK52dEHA.720@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>>
>> > .... We have a network of about 50
>> > PC's all running XP Pro, all up to date, and a server running NT 4. The
>> NT4
>> > is a PDC, running the DHCP server and MS Proxy Server. All of the XP
>PC's
>> > are set to obtain IP address automatically.
>> >
>> > Everything has been working fine for a few years - until about last
>week.
>> > Now some PC's can no longer obtain an IP address from the DHCP server -
>> > instead they get a 169.*.*.* address. But there are other PC's that
>*can*
>> > sucessfully obtain an IP address from the DHCP server.
>>
>> What does the DHCP server have to say about what's happening? Stats,
>errors
>> logged, etc?
>>
>>
>> > The PC's that cannot get an IP address from DHCP do seem to be able to
>get
>> > to the server however - I can log into those PC's and it will validate
>the
>> > password and run the user's login script off the server.
>>
>> 2 questions:
>>
>> - Are there any protocols other than TCP/IP running on the network? (eg
>> NetBEUI, IPX/SPX?)
>>
>> - Are you sure the workstations aren't logging on using cached
>credentials?
>> (Check the workstation System logs.)
>>
>>
>> > .... I also tried assigning one of the PC's an IP address in the same
>> subnet
>> > as the server, but I was still not able to ping the server after doing
>> that!
>> > I can't figure out why it can access the server over the network to
>> validate
>> > the login and run the login script, but then cannot ping the server with
>> > the assigned IP address. It doesn't make any sense!
>>
>> I can't see how that can happen either, unless you accidentally assigned
>an
>> address already allocated (by DHCP) to another host.
>>
>> --
>> David Brownridge
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

--
Note, I seldom respond to email questions. Please keep discussions in
the news group, so everyone can benefit from them (including me <g>).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
John R Buchan ........................ jrb-tech(at)unknownegg(dot)org

begin 644 CachedCredentials.reg.txt
M5VEN9&]W<R!296=I<W1R>2!%9&ET;W(@5F5R<VEO;B`U+C`P#0H-"EM(2T59
M7TQ/0T%,7TU!0TA)3D5<4T]&5%=!4D5<36EC<F]S;V9T7%=I;F1O=W,@3E1<
M0W5R<F5N=%9E<G-I;VY<5VEN;&]G;VY=#0HB4F5P;W)T0V]N=')O;&QE<DUI
M<W-I;F<B/2)44E5%(@T*#0I;2$M%65]#55)214Y47U5315)<4V]F='=A<F5<
M36EC<F]S;V9T7%=I;F1O=W,@3E1<0W5R<F5N=%9E<G-I;VY<5VEN;&]G;VY=
;#0HB4F5P;W)T1$,B/61W;W)D.C`P,#`P,#`Q
`
end
September 4, 2004 8:57:43 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.protocol.tcpip (More info?)

John R Buchan wrote:
> Try logging on with an account that's never logged onto that PC or
> change the password on your domain account, then try logging on to one
> of the problem systems, using the new password. Both of will fail, if
> the problem system is unable to contact a domain controller and is using
> cached credentials to authenticate logons.
>
> NT used to pop up a message when it used cached credentials to
> authenticate a logon. For some reason MS changed that in W2k and,
> apparently, in XP. In W2k, there is a registry poke you can use to turn
> the message back on (search MS's site for ReportControllerMissing).
> However, I find no mention of this poke working in XP.
>
> On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:43:46 -0400, "JJ" <jjjj@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>What does the DHCP server have to say about what's happening? Stats,
>>
>>errors
>>
>>>logged, etc?
>>
>>It doesn't show any errors in the event viewer.
>>
>>
>>>- Are there any protocols other than TCP/IP running on the network? (eg
>>>NetBEUI, IPX/SPX?)
>>
>>No IPX/SPX. NetBEUI is possible.
>>
>>
>>>- Are you sure the workstations aren't logging on using cached
>>
>>credentials?
>>
>>>(Check the workstation System logs.)
>>>
>>
>>That's possibly why it looks like it is validating my password. I didn't
>>know it cached that. If it is checking it against cache, then I suppose it
>>could be possible that a hub is bad after all.
>>
>>
>>>I can't see how that can happen either, unless you accidentally assigned
>>
>>an
>>
>>>address already allocated (by DHCP) to another host.
>>>
>>
>>I don't think the address I used was in use, but if a hub is bad (or cable
>>to a hub), that might explain it.
>>
>>"David Brownridge" <DVD@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
>>news:o mtm6w$dEHA.3392@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>"JJ" <jjjj@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>news:u7EgK52dEHA.720@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>
>>>>.... We have a network of about 50
>>>>PC's all running XP Pro, all up to date, and a server running NT 4. The
>>>
>>>NT4
>>>
>>>>is a PDC, running the DHCP server and MS Proxy Server. All of the XP
>>
>>PC's
>>
>>>>are set to obtain IP address automatically.
>>>>
>>>>Everything has been working fine for a few years - until about last
>>
>>week.
>>
>>>>Now some PC's can no longer obtain an IP address from the DHCP server -
>>>>instead they get a 169.*.*.* address. But there are other PC's that
>>
>>*can*
>>
>>>>sucessfully obtain an IP address from the DHCP server.
>>>
>>>What does the DHCP server have to say about what's happening? Stats,
>>
>>errors
>>
>>>logged, etc?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The PC's that cannot get an IP address from DHCP do seem to be able to
>>
>>get
>>
>>>>to the server however - I can log into those PC's and it will validate
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>password and run the user's login script off the server.
>>>
>>>2 questions:
>>>
>>>- Are there any protocols other than TCP/IP running on the network? (eg
>>>NetBEUI, IPX/SPX?)
>>>
>>>- Are you sure the workstations aren't logging on using cached
>>
>>credentials?
>>
>>>(Check the workstation System logs.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>.... I also tried assigning one of the PC's an IP address in the same
>>>
>>>subnet
>>>
>>>>as the server, but I was still not able to ping the server after doing
>>>
>>>that!
>>>
>>>>I can't figure out why it can access the server over the network to
>>>
>>>validate
>>>
>>>>the login and run the login script, but then cannot ping the server with
>>>>the assigned IP address. It doesn't make any sense!
>>>
>>>I can't see how that can happen either, unless you accidentally assigned
>>
>>an
>>
>>>address already allocated (by DHCP) to another host.
>>>
>>>--
>>>David Brownridge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
>
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon]
> "ReportControllerMissing"="TRUE"
>
> [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon]
> "ReportDC"=dword:00000001
i have the same problem with computers that are connected as single
units the dchp assign that 169.254.... the only thng i found that works
is to reformat and start over.
September 4, 2004 9:00:26 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.protocol.tcpip (More info?)

John R Buchan wrote:

> Try logging on with an account that's never logged onto that PC or
> change the password on your domain account, then try logging on to one
> of the problem systems, using the new password. Both of will fail, if
> the problem system is unable to contact a domain controller and is using
> cached credentials to authenticate logons.
>
> NT used to pop up a message when it used cached credentials to
> authenticate a logon. For some reason MS changed that in W2k and,
> apparently, in XP. In W2k, there is a registry poke you can use to turn
> the message back on (search MS's site for ReportControllerMissing).
> However, I find no mention of this poke working in XP.
>
> On Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:43:46 -0400, "JJ" <jjjj@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>What does the DHCP server have to say about what's happening? Stats,
>>
>>errors
>>
>>>logged, etc?
>>
>>It doesn't show any errors in the event viewer.
>>
>>
>>>- Are there any protocols other than TCP/IP running on the network? (eg
>>>NetBEUI, IPX/SPX?)
>>
>>No IPX/SPX. NetBEUI is possible.
>>
>>
>>>- Are you sure the workstations aren't logging on using cached
>>
>>credentials?
>>
>>>(Check the workstation System logs.)
>>>
>>
>>That's possibly why it looks like it is validating my password. I didn't
>>know it cached that. If it is checking it against cache, then I suppose it
>>could be possible that a hub is bad after all.
>>
>>
>>>I can't see how that can happen either, unless you accidentally assigned
>>
>>an
>>
>>>address already allocated (by DHCP) to another host.
>>>
>>
>>I don't think the address I used was in use, but if a hub is bad (or cable
>>to a hub), that might explain it.
>>
>>"David Brownridge" <DVD@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
>>news:o mtm6w$dEHA.3392@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
>>
>>>"JJ" <jjjj@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>>news:u7EgK52dEHA.720@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>>
>>>>.... We have a network of about 50
>>>>PC's all running XP Pro, all up to date, and a server running NT 4. The
>>>
>>>NT4
>>>
>>>>is a PDC, running the DHCP server and MS Proxy Server. All of the XP
>>
>>PC's
>>
>>>>are set to obtain IP address automatically.
>>>>
>>>>Everything has been working fine for a few years - until about last
>>
>>week.
>>
>>>>Now some PC's can no longer obtain an IP address from the DHCP server -
>>>>instead they get a 169.*.*.* address. But there are other PC's that
>>
>>*can*
>>
>>>>sucessfully obtain an IP address from the DHCP server.
>>>
>>>What does the DHCP server have to say about what's happening? Stats,
>>
>>errors
>>
>>>logged, etc?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The PC's that cannot get an IP address from DHCP do seem to be able to
>>
>>get
>>
>>>>to the server however - I can log into those PC's and it will validate
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>password and run the user's login script off the server.
>>>
>>>2 questions:
>>>
>>>- Are there any protocols other than TCP/IP running on the network? (eg
>>>NetBEUI, IPX/SPX?)
>>>
>>>- Are you sure the workstations aren't logging on using cached
>>
>>credentials?
>>
>>>(Check the workstation System logs.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>.... I also tried assigning one of the PC's an IP address in the same
>>>
>>>subnet
>>>
>>>>as the server, but I was still not able to ping the server after doing
>>>
>>>that!
>>>
>>>>I can't figure out why it can access the server over the network to
>>>
>>>validate
>>>
>>>>the login and run the login script, but then cannot ping the server with
>>>>the assigned IP address. It doesn't make any sense!
>>>
>>>I can't see how that can happen either, unless you accidentally assigned
>>
>>an
>>
>>>address already allocated (by DHCP) to another host.
>>>
>>>--
>>>David Brownridge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
>
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon]
> "ReportControllerMissing"="TRUE"
>
> [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon]
> "ReportDC"=dword:00000001
the dchp is assign automatic or acp protocol by the dchp
!