Seems that XP SP2 is a utter Cockup..

G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Hi,

Program writers are notorious for taking shortcuts. In many cases, they
often use known holes in the system code as a shortcut to accomplish
something in thier program. When the hole is later patched by a critical
update, their program (or part of it) no longer works. They do this
knowingly and intentionally. They have the opportunity to code it correctly
according to specs, they choose not to for expediency. So who's fault is
that? Or would you rather that the holes were not patched? You know, that
way everyone would be permanently susceptible to Nimda, Code Red, Blaster,
etc.......
--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"The GHOST of WOGER." <ghost@gosts.co.au> wrote in message
news:78vvh0t6mdll629vp0nnumbu3e40gh9d5t@4ax.com...
> What a CockUP...
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>
>
> Why so many..?
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: nz.comp,microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

One reason "so many" (and I don't think the list is very long
considering the scope of this upgrade) is that programmers often use
un-documented (knowingly or unknowingly) and somtimes utilisation of
these features will not survive an upgrade to the OS. They do this for
naive reasons, or sometimes with the realisation that even if the
application doesn't survive the upgrade of OS, it is more likely that
people will blame Microsoft before blaming the actual guilty party. The
other reason that could be happening to applications on this list is
that these applications depend on certain default user-configurable
configurations of the OS. As is well known and publicized by Microsoft,
many of these default settings have been changed in SP2.



The GHOST of WOGER. wrote:
> What a CockUP...
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>
>
> Why so many..?
>
>
 

MarkH

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The GHOST of WOGER. <ghost@gosts.co.au> wrote in
news:78vvh0t6mdll629vp0nnumbu3e40gh9d5t@4ax.com:

> What a CockUP...
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxp
> sp2
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>
>
> Why so many..?

Oh my god! What a cock up!
The MS Firewall blocks some network traffic, who’d have thought!


I installed SP2, but disabled the firewall. No problems at all so far.


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~markh/
"There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't"
 

Jax

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Hi Rick,

Did you notice that many of the programs in the list are Microsoft's own
products?

JAX

"Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:u7Ae9sygEHA.644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> Program writers are notorious for taking shortcuts. In many cases, they
> often use known holes in the system code as a shortcut to accomplish
> something in thier program. When the hole is later patched by a critical
> update, their program (or part of it) no longer works. They do this
> knowingly and intentionally. They have the opportunity to code it
> correctly according to specs, they choose not to for expediency. So who's
> fault is that? Or would you rather that the holes were not patched? You
> know, that way everyone would be permanently susceptible to Nimda, Code
> Red, Blaster, etc.......
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
> www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>
> "The GHOST of WOGER." <ghost@gosts.co.au> wrote in message
> news:78vvh0t6mdll629vp0nnumbu3e40gh9d5t@4ax.com...
>> What a CockUP...
>>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>>
>>
>> Why so many..?
>>
>>
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

This is so wrong it's hard to know where to begin. The
level of Microsycophancy on the part of MVPs straining to
defend their heroes is sickening. See responses inline
below:

>Program writers are notorious for taking shortcuts. In
>many cases, they often use known holes in the system code
>as a shortcut to accomplish something in thier program.

If not for the original MS "shortcuts" we wouldn't be
having this discussion. Don't forget--nearly all of the
"critical" security holes in XP were brought to light not
by MS, but by outside sources. Since some of the
applications that will be crippled by SP2 were developed
by MS, we must assume that they *knew* about the holes
and did nothing.

>When the hole is later patched by a critical update,
>their program (or part of it) no longer works.

Developers write code so that it will function on the
target platform. If the target platform is defective, how
is it that developers are to blame? Also, unless what
you're doing here is just spewing unsupported assertions
and engaging in irresponsible gossip, I'm sure you can
provide direct reference to application source code that
includes the type of irresponsible coding you refer to.

>They do this knowingly and intentionally. They have the
>opportunity to code it correctly according to specs, they
>choose not to for expediency.

The "specs" are at least tacitly included in the
architecture of the target platform. If all of these holes
were such common knowledge in the development community,
why has it taken MS so long to patch them?

>So who's fault is that?

Whose indeed? (Not "who's")

>Or would you rather that the holes were not patched? You
>know, that way everyone would be permanently susceptible
>to Nimda, Code Red, Blaster etc.......

Argument from false dichotomy. I would rather that MS
provided some leadership in the process of identification
of holes in its own product, rather than waiting for
outsiders to discover them before taking action and then
blaming the non-MS development community for the
problems.

>Best of Luck,

We'll all need it!

>Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
>www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Never said they were exempt from this. Could be other incompatibilities as
well, such as a change in api's, but the point is that the program needs to
be fixed by the vendor 99.9% of the time.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"JAX" <slipslide@pop.not> wrote in message
news:%23dmR3GzgEHA.3016@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Hi Rick,
>
> Did you notice that many of the programs in the list are Microsoft's own
> products?
>
> JAX
>
> "Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:u7Ae9sygEHA.644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Hi,
>>
>> Program writers are notorious for taking shortcuts. In many cases, they
>> often use known holes in the system code as a shortcut to accomplish
>> something in thier program. When the hole is later patched by a critical
>> update, their program (or part of it) no longer works. They do this
>> knowingly and intentionally. They have the opportunity to code it
>> correctly according to specs, they choose not to for expediency. So who's
>> fault is that? Or would you rather that the holes were not patched? You
>> know, that way everyone would be permanently susceptible to Nimda, Code
>> Red, Blaster, etc.......
>> --
>> Best of Luck,
>>
>> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>> Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
>> www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>>
>> "The GHOST of WOGER." <ghost@gosts.co.au> wrote in message
>> news:78vvh0t6mdll629vp0nnumbu3e40gh9d5t@4ax.com...
>>> What a CockUP...
>>>
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>>>
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>>>
>>>
>>> Why so many..?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
 

Jax

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Rick, my post was not intended as any kind of argument, just an observation.

JAX

"Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:OUhhRXzgEHA.3320@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Never said they were exempt from this. Could be other incompatibilities as
> well, such as a change in api's, but the point is that the program needs
> to be fixed by the vendor 99.9% of the time.
>
> --
> Best of Luck,
>
> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
> Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
> www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>
> "JAX" <slipslide@pop.not> wrote in message
> news:%23dmR3GzgEHA.3016@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>> Hi Rick,
>>
>> Did you notice that many of the programs in the list are Microsoft's own
>> products?
>>
>> JAX
>>
>> "Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
>> news:u7Ae9sygEHA.644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Program writers are notorious for taking shortcuts. In many cases, they
>>> often use known holes in the system code as a shortcut to accomplish
>>> something in thier program. When the hole is later patched by a critical
>>> update, their program (or part of it) no longer works. They do this
>>> knowingly and intentionally. They have the opportunity to code it
>>> correctly according to specs, they choose not to for expediency. So
>>> who's fault is that? Or would you rather that the holes were not
>>> patched? You know, that way everyone would be permanently susceptible to
>>> Nimda, Code Red, Blaster, etc.......
>>> --
>>> Best of Luck,
>>>
>>> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>>> Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
>>> www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>>>
>>> "The GHOST of WOGER." <ghost@gosts.co.au> wrote in message
>>> news:78vvh0t6mdll629vp0nnumbu3e40gh9d5t@4ax.com...
>>>> What a CockUP...
>>>>
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>>>>
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why so many..?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Wasn't arguing either, didn't think you were, I was just expanding on it.

--
Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

"JAX" <slipslide@pop.not> wrote in message
news:emnK4P0gEHA.3476@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Rick, my post was not intended as any kind of argument, just an
> observation.
>
> JAX
>
> "Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:OUhhRXzgEHA.3320@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>> Never said they were exempt from this. Could be other incompatibilities
>> as well, such as a change in api's, but the point is that the program
>> needs to be fixed by the vendor 99.9% of the time.
>>
>> --
>> Best of Luck,
>>
>> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>> Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
>> www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>>
>> "JAX" <slipslide@pop.not> wrote in message
>> news:%23dmR3GzgEHA.3016@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>> Hi Rick,
>>>
>>> Did you notice that many of the programs in the list are Microsoft's own
>>> products?
>>>
>>> JAX
>>>
>>> "Rick "Nutcase" Rogers" <rick@mvps.org> wrote in message
>>> news:u7Ae9sygEHA.644@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Program writers are notorious for taking shortcuts. In many cases, they
>>>> often use known holes in the system code as a shortcut to accomplish
>>>> something in thier program. When the hole is later patched by a
>>>> critical update, their program (or part of it) no longer works. They do
>>>> this knowingly and intentionally. They have the opportunity to code it
>>>> correctly according to specs, they choose not to for expediency. So
>>>> who's fault is that? Or would you rather that the holes were not
>>>> patched? You know, that way everyone would be permanently susceptible
>>>> to Nimda, Code Red, Blaster, etc.......
>>>> --
>>>> Best of Luck,
>>>>
>>>> Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
>>>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
>>>> Associate Expert - WindowsXP Expert Zone
>>>> www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
>>>> Windows help - www.rickrogers.org
>>>>
>>>> "The GHOST of WOGER." <ghost@gosts.co.au> wrote in message
>>>> news:78vvh0t6mdll629vp0nnumbu3e40gh9d5t@4ax.com...
>>>>> What a CockUP...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>>>>>
>>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why so many..?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
 

Tim

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How many was that?
How many windows programs are there?
How many of these programs are superceeded?
What changes did they make?
What might a programmer have done wrong to make it incompatible?
What needs to be fixed / changed to make the apps work again (sodd all
usually)?

Now, would you like to compare these stats with App breakages going from
Windows 3.1 to Win 95? Or Win9x to Windows NT or Windows XP?

Or would you prefer a Mac and get new apps everytime?

- Tim



"The GHOST of WOGER." <ghost@gosts.co.au> wrote in message
news:78vvh0t6mdll629vp0nnumbu3e40gh9d5t@4ax.com...
> What a CockUP...
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>
>
> Why so many..?
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: nz.comp,microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Agreed, most are "out of date - superseded programs" or "games" - and the
spec writers for game programmers are notorious for exploiting code flaws in
the name of speed.

--

Star Fleet Admiral Q @ your service

*************************************************

"Tim" <Tim@NoSpam.com> wrote in message news:cfp49i$667$1@lust.ihug.co.nz...
> How many was that?
> How many windows programs are there?
> How many of these programs are superceeded?
> What changes did they make?
> What might a programmer have done wrong to make it incompatible?
> What needs to be fixed / changed to make the apps work again (sodd all
> usually)?
>
> Now, would you like to compare these stats with App breakages going from
> Windows 3.1 to Win 95? Or Win9x to Windows NT or Windows XP?
>
> Or would you prefer a Mac and get new apps everytime?
>
> - Tim
>
>
>
> "The GHOST of WOGER." <ghost@gosts.co.au> wrote in message
> news:78vvh0t6mdll629vp0nnumbu3e40gh9d5t@4ax.com...
>> What a CockUP...
>>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>>
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>>
>>
>> Why so many..?
>>
>>
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: nz.comp,microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

In article <#MSEKfzgEHA.3676@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl> in nz.comp on Sun, 15
Aug 2004 22:21:47 -0400, <"Star Fleet Admiral Q" <Star_Fleet_Admiral_Q
(NOSPAM)@(SPAMNOT)hotmail.com>> says...
> Agreed, most are "out of date - superseded programs" or "games" - and the
> spec writers for game programmers are notorious for exploiting code flaws in
> the name of speed.

Office XP is a current product, all of them are listed
 

Tim

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"The following table lists programs that may behave differently after you
install Windows XP SP2:"

- Tim


"Patrick Dunford" <patrickdunford@nomail.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.1b8ae89abcefa3d898a21c@news.paradise.net.nz...
> In article <#MSEKfzgEHA.3676@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl> in nz.comp on Sun, 15
> Aug 2004 22:21:47 -0400, <"Star Fleet Admiral Q" <Star_Fleet_Admiral_Q
> (NOSPAM)@(SPAMNOT)hotmail.com>> says...
>> Agreed, most are "out of date - superseded programs" or "games" - and the
>> spec writers for game programmers are notorious for exploiting code flaws
>> in
>> the name of speed.
>
> Office XP is a current product, all of them are listed
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: nz.comp,microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

Patrick Dunford wrote:
> In article <MPG.1b8ad284f1ce4514989690@news.orcon.net.nz> in nz.comp on
>
> It seems strange that this Firewall now is enabled on a corporate
> network.

Yeah, but you can disable it via group policies.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: nz.comp,microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

In article <78vvh0t6mdll629vp0nnumbu3e40gh9d5t@4ax.com>,
ghost@gosts.co.au says...
> What a CockUP...
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
>
>
> Why so many..?
>
Er, I bet that just about all these games refer to multiplayer stuff and
lots of these apps seem to be network related.

Could it be something to do with a firewall? You fail it.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: nz.comp,microsoft.public.windowsxp.basics (More info?)

In article <MPG.1b8b14d3ce26baee9896eb@news.orcon.net.nz> in nz.comp on
Mon, 16 Aug 2004 18:01:15 +1200, wogers nemesis <dont@mail.me> says...
> In article <78vvh0t6mdll629vp0nnumbu3e40gh9d5t@4ax.com>,
> ghost@gosts.co.au says...
> > What a CockUP...
> >
> > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=884130&product=windowsxpsp2
> >
> > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=842242
> >
> >
> > Why so many..?
> >
> Er, I bet that just about all these games refer to multiplayer stuff and
> lots of these apps seem to be network related.
>
> Could it be something to do with a firewall? You fail it.

Absolutely, anything that connects peer to peer is going to be affected.
I had so much fun at home getting Zonealarm configured on various
machines to allow them to connect to each other just for Windows
Networking.
 

T-boy

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In article <1092635624.404832@morgai.wetafx.co.nz>,
stu@springfield_dance_studio.com says...
> Patrick Dunford wrote:
> > In article <MPG.1b8ad284f1ce4514989690@news.orcon.net.nz> in nz.comp on
> >
> > It seems strange that this Firewall now is enabled on a corporate
> > network.
>
> Yeah, but you can disable it via group policies.

And isn't only enabled on 2003 Server (not 2000)?

--
Duncan
 

Divine

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On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:52:58 +0000, MarkH wrote:

> Oh my god! What a cock up!
> The MS Firewall blocks some network traffic, whoÂ’d have thought!

LOL!


Divine

--
The Queen's Mother: "Well I don't know what all you queens are doing,
but this old Queen wants a drink."