Install NT4 Wks On 2nd HDD - Update

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Thanks to the info given about FAT16 partition on first disk / sharing with
an OS, etc., I managed to get further. But sadly I can't quite make that
last step.

Here's the setup:

HDD 1:
2 Gb primary FAT32 (hidden)
2 Gb primary FAT32 (hidden)
2 Gb primary FAT16 (active)
X Gb extended + logical

HDD 2:
2 Gb primary (active)
X Gb unpartitioned space


Now, as shown above, for the purposes of these installations the first two
FAT32 partitions are hidden, so that the FAT16 partition looks like the C:
drive. This allows Win95 to be installed on it; that part works fine.

When I try to install NT4 from Win95, it asks where to find the I386 dir; it
copies some files across, then asks to reboot. When I do this, the NT boot
CD takes over. So far so good.

It then sorts out what partition to install on, bla bla bla, and copies over
the key files, and then asks to remove any disks, including CD, and reboot
again.

This is now where it goes wrong; presumably it has installed its bootloader
by now, and since we've taken the CD out it clearly wants to finish
installation from the hard drive. This all makes sense.

But it does nothing. It realises it has no floppy or CD to boot from, so
boots from "IDE-0"... and that's it, it just sits there forever. It seems
unable to work from the bootloader.

If I had to make a guess, I'd say it can't handle the fact that although
it's the first visible partition, it's not the first partition on the disk -
maybe it assumes it should be, even though the other partitions are hidden
until otherwise made active.

It HAS installed the contents of the WINNT folder on HDD 2 as expected.
It HAS installed stuff on C: (first visible partition on HDD 1):
A file called $ldr$
A directory called $WIN_NT$.~BT
A directory called $WIN_NT$.~LS

Is there anything I can do to get this to work? Or is my theory about
partition position accurate? As you can see from the setup, it's within the
8 Gb boundary by plenty...

--
Jason Teagle
jason@teagster.co.uk
7 answers Last reply
More about install update
  1. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

    Check which partition is active on HDD-1/IDE-0 and post boot.ini file
    content.
  2. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

    There is one known problem with FAT16 partitions - standard FAT16 partition
    boot code is not able to load OS if partition is located far than 2016MB
    from begin of disk. Boot procedure hangs due division by zero fault. NT
    setup is replacing boot code of non NT based operating system by standard NT
    based OS boot code and it could be your problem. It is good practice to have
    oldest systems partitions on begin of disk and newer system partition after.
    Do you have any tool able to move your partitions around?

    At past there was patch available on web able to go over this limitation,
    but I tried to find it and found that link I have is now broken :(.

    Do you have any other NT based OS machine around? I mean Win NT, Win 2000 or
    Win XP. In such case you can create NT boot floppy - format floppy under any
    NT based OS (to get correct boot code) and copy following files from root of
    C: drive to it:
    NTLDR., NTDETECT.COM, BOOT.INI and, if exist, also optional NTBOOTDD.SYS
    disk driver file.

    NTLDR. and NTDETECT.COM can be from any machine or even from installation
    media and should be of the same or higher version of the highest NT based
    operating system installed on machine. But BOOT.INI and NTBOOTDD.SYS are
    machine specific and should be copied from target machine (or manually
    prepared to be used on it).

    Such floppy can help you to finish installation and to run system. With
    patched boot code and newer versions of NTLDR. and NTDETECT.COM it is
    possible to launch system from disk even with your current partition
    configuration.

    luck
    "Jason Teagle" <jason@teagster.co.uk> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
    news:2h15k3F7uin1U1@uni-berlin.de...
    > Thanks to the info given about FAT16 partition on first disk / sharing
    with
    > an OS, etc., I managed to get further. But sadly I can't quite make that
    > last step.
    >
    > Here's the setup:
    >
    > HDD 1:
    > 2 Gb primary FAT32 (hidden)
    > 2 Gb primary FAT32 (hidden)
    > 2 Gb primary FAT16 (active)
    > X Gb extended + logical
    >
    > HDD 2:
    > 2 Gb primary (active)
    > X Gb unpartitioned space
    >
    >
    > Now, as shown above, for the purposes of these installations the first two
    > FAT32 partitions are hidden, so that the FAT16 partition looks like the C:
    > drive. This allows Win95 to be installed on it; that part works fine.
    >
    > When I try to install NT4 from Win95, it asks where to find the I386 dir;
    it
    > copies some files across, then asks to reboot. When I do this, the NT boot
    > CD takes over. So far so good.
    >
    > It then sorts out what partition to install on, bla bla bla, and copies
    over
    > the key files, and then asks to remove any disks, including CD, and reboot
    > again.
    >
    > This is now where it goes wrong; presumably it has installed its
    bootloader
    > by now, and since we've taken the CD out it clearly wants to finish
    > installation from the hard drive. This all makes sense.
    >
    > But it does nothing. It realises it has no floppy or CD to boot from, so
    > boots from "IDE-0"... and that's it, it just sits there forever. It seems
    > unable to work from the bootloader.
    >
    > If I had to make a guess, I'd say it can't handle the fact that although
    > it's the first visible partition, it's not the first partition on the
    disk -
    > maybe it assumes it should be, even though the other partitions are hidden
    > until otherwise made active.
    >
    > It HAS installed the contents of the WINNT folder on HDD 2 as expected.
    > It HAS installed stuff on C: (first visible partition on HDD 1):
    > A file called $ldr$
    > A directory called $WIN_NT$.~BT
    > A directory called $WIN_NT$.~LS
    >
    > Is there anything I can do to get this to work? Or is my theory about
    > partition position accurate? As you can see from the setup, it's within
    the
    > 8 Gb boundary by plenty...
    >
    > --
    > Jason Teagle
    > jason@teagster.co.uk
    >
    >
  3. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

    > There is one known problem with FAT16 partitions - standard FAT16
    partition
    > boot code is not able to load OS if partition is located far than 2016MB
    > from begin of disk. Boot procedure hangs due division by zero fault. NT

    I see.

    > setup is replacing boot code of non NT based operating system by standard
    NT
    > based OS boot code and it could be your problem. It is good practice to
    have
    > oldest systems partitions on begin of disk and newer system partition
    after.
    > Do you have any tool able to move your partitions around?

    I have PartitionMagic, but I'm not sure it can swap them around - all
    primary partitions available on that disk are used, so it has no "spare" to
    be able to make the swap. I will probably simply have to wipe the other
    partitions and start over.

    >
    > At past there was patch available on web able to go over this limitation,
    > but I tried to find it and found that link I have is now broken :(.

    Well, thanks for trying anyway.

    > Such floppy can help you to finish installation and to run system. With
    > patched boot code and newer versions of NTLDR. and NTDETECT.COM it is
    > possible to launch system from disk even with your current partition
    > configuration.

    To compound my problem the floppy drive doesn't work on that machine
    currently, I will have to take it apart to fix it {:v( Would an XP boot CD
    do the same job? I'm guessing yes...

    I am able to get into the FAT16 partition still to replace files, I have an
    old Win98 SE boot CD that has been gold dust when it comes to rescuing setup
    failures.

    So I should copy NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM (from later NT source) over the ones
    now in C:\, then reboot from hard disk?

    Sounds like a plan to me!


    --
    --
    Jason Teagle
    jason@teagster.co.uk
  4. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

    Repair console of WinXP (one option while booting from setup CD) has some
    interesting commands.
    I think that FIXBOOT command can be useful for you.

    Before you try to do any repairs, backup all NT loader files from root of C:
    drive especially file BOOTSECT.DOS. I did not mentioned this file before,
    because it has nothing to do with booting to NT OS, it is, in fact, file
    with original content of your C: drive boot sector - ie. code able to load
    your original win9x system. It is very important to do not lost this file if
    you want to start your win9x system at future. Even there is method how to
    recreate win9x bootsector code, I am not sure it will be functional for you
    due your partition configuration.


    "Jason Teagle" <jason@teagster.co.uk> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
    news:2h7f48Fa2kqeU1@uni-berlin.de...
    > > There is one known problem with FAT16 partitions - standard FAT16
    > partition
    > > boot code is not able to load OS if partition is located far than 2016MB
    > > from begin of disk. Boot procedure hangs due division by zero fault. NT
    >
    > I see.
    >
    > > setup is replacing boot code of non NT based operating system by
    standard
    > NT
    > > based OS boot code and it could be your problem. It is good practice to
    > have
    > > oldest systems partitions on begin of disk and newer system partition
    > after.
    > > Do you have any tool able to move your partitions around?
    >
    > I have PartitionMagic, but I'm not sure it can swap them around - all
    > primary partitions available on that disk are used, so it has no "spare"
    to
    > be able to make the swap. I will probably simply have to wipe the other
    > partitions and start over.
    >
    > >
    > > At past there was patch available on web able to go over this
    limitation,
    > > but I tried to find it and found that link I have is now broken :(.
    >
    > Well, thanks for trying anyway.
    >
    > > Such floppy can help you to finish installation and to run system. With
    > > patched boot code and newer versions of NTLDR. and NTDETECT.COM it is
    > > possible to launch system from disk even with your current partition
    > > configuration.
    >
    > To compound my problem the floppy drive doesn't work on that machine
    > currently, I will have to take it apart to fix it {:v( Would an XP boot
    CD
    > do the same job? I'm guessing yes...
    >
    > I am able to get into the FAT16 partition still to replace files, I have
    an
    > old Win98 SE boot CD that has been gold dust when it comes to rescuing
    setup
    > failures.
    >
    > So I should copy NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM (from later NT source) over the
    ones
    > now in C:\, then reboot from hard disk?
    >
    > Sounds like a plan to me!
    >
    >
    > --
    > --
    > Jason Teagle
    > jason@teagster.co.uk
    >
    >
  5. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

    > Repair console of WinXP (one option while booting from setup CD) has some
    > interesting commands.
    > I think that FIXBOOT command can be useful for you.
    >
    > Before you try to do any repairs, backup all NT loader files from root of
    C:
    > drive especially file BOOTSECT.DOS. I did not mentioned this file before,
    > because it has nothing to do with booting to NT OS, it is, in fact, file
    > with original content of your C: drive boot sector - ie. code able to load
    > your original win9x system. It is very important to do not lost this file
    if
    > you want to start your win9x system at future. Even there is method how to
    > recreate win9x bootsector code, I am not sure it will be functional for
    you
    > due your partition configuration.

    Interesting stuff... I also tried installing NT to my laptop, but darn it,
    that wouldn't work either; blue-screened, complaining of not detecting boot
    device or something (laptop does ot have floppy disk drive, but has a CD
    drive of course!).

    So frustrating!


    --
    --
    Jason Teagle
    jason@teagster.co.uk
  6. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

    Yes, notebooks often contain proprietary designed parts and most of notebook
    hardware require PnP or PnP like support from operating system side to be
    functional. Installation of Windows NT without proper support disk from
    notebook manufacturer is real pain. Unfortunately NT setup need floppy drive
    to load special drivers during manual setup, so eventual NT drivers
    downloaded from laptop manufacturer will not help you. You can, however,
    prepare unattended setup script and copy all files to laptop disk and
    install using it, but preparation of correct installation script, correct
    driver files and folder structure is not easy task.

    "Jason Teagle" <jason@teagster.co.uk> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
    news:2he0pgFbv69rU1@uni-berlin.de...
    > > Repair console of WinXP (one option while booting from setup CD) has
    some
    > > interesting commands.
    > > I think that FIXBOOT command can be useful for you.
    > >
    > > Before you try to do any repairs, backup all NT loader files from root
    of
    > C:
    > > drive especially file BOOTSECT.DOS. I did not mentioned this file
    before,
    > > because it has nothing to do with booting to NT OS, it is, in fact, file
    > > with original content of your C: drive boot sector - ie. code able to
    load
    > > your original win9x system. It is very important to do not lost this
    file
    > if
    > > you want to start your win9x system at future. Even there is method how
    to
    > > recreate win9x bootsector code, I am not sure it will be functional for
    > you
    > > due your partition configuration.
    >
    > Interesting stuff... I also tried installing NT to my laptop, but darn it,
    > that wouldn't work either; blue-screened, complaining of not detecting
    boot
    > device or something (laptop does ot have floppy disk drive, but has a CD
    > drive of course!).
    >
    > So frustrating!
    >
    >
    > --
    > --
    > Jason Teagle
    > jason@teagster.co.uk
    >
    >
  7. Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

    > Yes, notebooks often contain proprietary designed parts and most of
    notebook
    > hardware require PnP or PnP like support from operating system side to be
    > functional. Installation of Windows NT without proper support disk from
    > notebook manufacturer is real pain. Unfortunately NT setup need floppy
    drive
    > to load special drivers during manual setup, so eventual NT drivers
    > downloaded from laptop manufacturer will not help you. You can, however,
    > prepare unattended setup script and copy all files to laptop disk and
    > install using it, but preparation of correct installation script, correct
    > driver files and folder structure is not easy task.

    Wow... think I'll forget that one then {;v)

    I think my only sensible option is to bite the bullet and rearrange the
    partitions on the first HDD on the test machine - a pain, but probably
    necessary. For just a silly test setup this is far too much hassle!


    --
    --
    Jason Teagle
    jason@teagster.co.uk
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