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Install NT4 Wks On 2nd HDD - Update

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Anonymous
May 19, 2004 6:26:23 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Thanks to the info given about FAT16 partition on first disk / sharing with
an OS, etc., I managed to get further. But sadly I can't quite make that
last step.

Here's the setup:

HDD 1:
2 Gb primary FAT32 (hidden)
2 Gb primary FAT32 (hidden)
2 Gb primary FAT16 (active)
X Gb extended + logical

HDD 2:
2 Gb primary (active)
X Gb unpartitioned space


Now, as shown above, for the purposes of these installations the first two
FAT32 partitions are hidden, so that the FAT16 partition looks like the C:
drive. This allows Win95 to be installed on it; that part works fine.

When I try to install NT4 from Win95, it asks where to find the I386 dir; it
copies some files across, then asks to reboot. When I do this, the NT boot
CD takes over. So far so good.

It then sorts out what partition to install on, bla bla bla, and copies over
the key files, and then asks to remove any disks, including CD, and reboot
again.

This is now where it goes wrong; presumably it has installed its bootloader
by now, and since we've taken the CD out it clearly wants to finish
installation from the hard drive. This all makes sense.

But it does nothing. It realises it has no floppy or CD to boot from, so
boots from "IDE-0"... and that's it, it just sits there forever. It seems
unable to work from the bootloader.

If I had to make a guess, I'd say it can't handle the fact that although
it's the first visible partition, it's not the first partition on the disk -
maybe it assumes it should be, even though the other partitions are hidden
until otherwise made active.

It HAS installed the contents of the WINNT folder on HDD 2 as expected.
It HAS installed stuff on C: (first visible partition on HDD 1):
A file called $ldr$
A directory called $WIN_NT$.~BT
A directory called $WIN_NT$.~LS

Is there anything I can do to get this to work? Or is my theory about
partition position accurate? As you can see from the setup, it's within the
8 Gb boundary by plenty...

--
Jason Teagle
jason@teagster.co.uk
Anonymous
May 19, 2004 8:23:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Check which partition is active on HDD-1/IDE-0 and post boot.ini file
content.
Anonymous
May 20, 2004 4:04:03 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

There is one known problem with FAT16 partitions - standard FAT16 partition
boot code is not able to load OS if partition is located far than 2016MB
from begin of disk. Boot procedure hangs due division by zero fault. NT
setup is replacing boot code of non NT based operating system by standard NT
based OS boot code and it could be your problem. It is good practice to have
oldest systems partitions on begin of disk and newer system partition after.
Do you have any tool able to move your partitions around?

At past there was patch available on web able to go over this limitation,
but I tried to find it and found that link I have is now broken :( .

Do you have any other NT based OS machine around? I mean Win NT, Win 2000 or
Win XP. In such case you can create NT boot floppy - format floppy under any
NT based OS (to get correct boot code) and copy following files from root of
C: drive to it:
NTLDR., NTDETECT.COM, BOOT.INI and, if exist, also optional NTBOOTDD.SYS
disk driver file.

NTLDR. and NTDETECT.COM can be from any machine or even from installation
media and should be of the same or higher version of the highest NT based
operating system installed on machine. But BOOT.INI and NTBOOTDD.SYS are
machine specific and should be copied from target machine (or manually
prepared to be used on it).

Such floppy can help you to finish installation and to run system. With
patched boot code and newer versions of NTLDR. and NTDETECT.COM it is
possible to launch system from disk even with your current partition
configuration.

luck
"Jason Teagle" <jason@teagster.co.uk> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
news:2h15k3F7uin1U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Thanks to the info given about FAT16 partition on first disk / sharing
with
> an OS, etc., I managed to get further. But sadly I can't quite make that
> last step.
>
> Here's the setup:
>
> HDD 1:
> 2 Gb primary FAT32 (hidden)
> 2 Gb primary FAT32 (hidden)
> 2 Gb primary FAT16 (active)
> X Gb extended + logical
>
> HDD 2:
> 2 Gb primary (active)
> X Gb unpartitioned space
>
>
> Now, as shown above, for the purposes of these installations the first two
> FAT32 partitions are hidden, so that the FAT16 partition looks like the C:
> drive. This allows Win95 to be installed on it; that part works fine.
>
> When I try to install NT4 from Win95, it asks where to find the I386 dir;
it
> copies some files across, then asks to reboot. When I do this, the NT boot
> CD takes over. So far so good.
>
> It then sorts out what partition to install on, bla bla bla, and copies
over
> the key files, and then asks to remove any disks, including CD, and reboot
> again.
>
> This is now where it goes wrong; presumably it has installed its
bootloader
> by now, and since we've taken the CD out it clearly wants to finish
> installation from the hard drive. This all makes sense.
>
> But it does nothing. It realises it has no floppy or CD to boot from, so
> boots from "IDE-0"... and that's it, it just sits there forever. It seems
> unable to work from the bootloader.
>
> If I had to make a guess, I'd say it can't handle the fact that although
> it's the first visible partition, it's not the first partition on the
disk -
> maybe it assumes it should be, even though the other partitions are hidden
> until otherwise made active.
>
> It HAS installed the contents of the WINNT folder on HDD 2 as expected.
> It HAS installed stuff on C: (first visible partition on HDD 1):
> A file called $ldr$
> A directory called $WIN_NT$.~BT
> A directory called $WIN_NT$.~LS
>
> Is there anything I can do to get this to work? Or is my theory about
> partition position accurate? As you can see from the setup, it's within
the
> 8 Gb boundary by plenty...
>
> --
> Jason Teagle
> jason@teagster.co.uk
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
May 22, 2004 3:45:14 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

> There is one known problem with FAT16 partitions - standard FAT16
partition
> boot code is not able to load OS if partition is located far than 2016MB
> from begin of disk. Boot procedure hangs due division by zero fault. NT

I see.

> setup is replacing boot code of non NT based operating system by standard
NT
> based OS boot code and it could be your problem. It is good practice to
have
> oldest systems partitions on begin of disk and newer system partition
after.
> Do you have any tool able to move your partitions around?

I have PartitionMagic, but I'm not sure it can swap them around - all
primary partitions available on that disk are used, so it has no "spare" to
be able to make the swap. I will probably simply have to wipe the other
partitions and start over.

>
> At past there was patch available on web able to go over this limitation,
> but I tried to find it and found that link I have is now broken :( .

Well, thanks for trying anyway.

> Such floppy can help you to finish installation and to run system. With
> patched boot code and newer versions of NTLDR. and NTDETECT.COM it is
> possible to launch system from disk even with your current partition
> configuration.

To compound my problem the floppy drive doesn't work on that machine
currently, I will have to take it apart to fix it {:v( Would an XP boot CD
do the same job? I'm guessing yes...

I am able to get into the FAT16 partition still to replace files, I have an
old Win98 SE boot CD that has been gold dust when it comes to rescuing setup
failures.

So I should copy NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM (from later NT source) over the ones
now in C:\, then reboot from hard disk?

Sounds like a plan to me!


--
--
Jason Teagle
jason@teagster.co.uk
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 3:28:41 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Repair console of WinXP (one option while booting from setup CD) has some
interesting commands.
I think that FIXBOOT command can be useful for you.

Before you try to do any repairs, backup all NT loader files from root of C:
drive especially file BOOTSECT.DOS. I did not mentioned this file before,
because it has nothing to do with booting to NT OS, it is, in fact, file
with original content of your C: drive boot sector - ie. code able to load
your original win9x system. It is very important to do not lost this file if
you want to start your win9x system at future. Even there is method how to
recreate win9x bootsector code, I am not sure it will be functional for you
due your partition configuration.


"Jason Teagle" <jason@teagster.co.uk> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
news:2h7f48Fa2kqeU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > There is one known problem with FAT16 partitions - standard FAT16
> partition
> > boot code is not able to load OS if partition is located far than 2016MB
> > from begin of disk. Boot procedure hangs due division by zero fault. NT
>
> I see.
>
> > setup is replacing boot code of non NT based operating system by
standard
> NT
> > based OS boot code and it could be your problem. It is good practice to
> have
> > oldest systems partitions on begin of disk and newer system partition
> after.
> > Do you have any tool able to move your partitions around?
>
> I have PartitionMagic, but I'm not sure it can swap them around - all
> primary partitions available on that disk are used, so it has no "spare"
to
> be able to make the swap. I will probably simply have to wipe the other
> partitions and start over.
>
> >
> > At past there was patch available on web able to go over this
limitation,
> > but I tried to find it and found that link I have is now broken :( .
>
> Well, thanks for trying anyway.
>
> > Such floppy can help you to finish installation and to run system. With
> > patched boot code and newer versions of NTLDR. and NTDETECT.COM it is
> > possible to launch system from disk even with your current partition
> > configuration.
>
> To compound my problem the floppy drive doesn't work on that machine
> currently, I will have to take it apart to fix it {:v( Would an XP boot
CD
> do the same job? I'm guessing yes...
>
> I am able to get into the FAT16 partition still to replace files, I have
an
> old Win98 SE boot CD that has been gold dust when it comes to rescuing
setup
> failures.
>
> So I should copy NTLDR and NTDETECT.COM (from later NT source) over the
ones
> now in C:\, then reboot from hard disk?
>
> Sounds like a plan to me!
>
>
> --
> --
> Jason Teagle
> jason@teagster.co.uk
>
>
Anonymous
May 24, 2004 3:28:42 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

> Repair console of WinXP (one option while booting from setup CD) has some
> interesting commands.
> I think that FIXBOOT command can be useful for you.
>
> Before you try to do any repairs, backup all NT loader files from root of
C:
> drive especially file BOOTSECT.DOS. I did not mentioned this file before,
> because it has nothing to do with booting to NT OS, it is, in fact, file
> with original content of your C: drive boot sector - ie. code able to load
> your original win9x system. It is very important to do not lost this file
if
> you want to start your win9x system at future. Even there is method how to
> recreate win9x bootsector code, I am not sure it will be functional for
you
> due your partition configuration.

Interesting stuff... I also tried installing NT to my laptop, but darn it,
that wouldn't work either; blue-screened, complaining of not detecting boot
device or something (laptop does ot have floppy disk drive, but has a CD
drive of course!).

So frustrating!


--
--
Jason Teagle
jason@teagster.co.uk
Anonymous
May 25, 2004 3:32:43 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Yes, notebooks often contain proprietary designed parts and most of notebook
hardware require PnP or PnP like support from operating system side to be
functional. Installation of Windows NT without proper support disk from
notebook manufacturer is real pain. Unfortunately NT setup need floppy drive
to load special drivers during manual setup, so eventual NT drivers
downloaded from laptop manufacturer will not help you. You can, however,
prepare unattended setup script and copy all files to laptop disk and
install using it, but preparation of correct installation script, correct
driver files and folder structure is not easy task.

"Jason Teagle" <jason@teagster.co.uk> pí¹e v diskusním pøíspìvku
news:2he0pgFbv69rU1@uni-berlin.de...
> > Repair console of WinXP (one option while booting from setup CD) has
some
> > interesting commands.
> > I think that FIXBOOT command can be useful for you.
> >
> > Before you try to do any repairs, backup all NT loader files from root
of
> C:
> > drive especially file BOOTSECT.DOS. I did not mentioned this file
before,
> > because it has nothing to do with booting to NT OS, it is, in fact, file
> > with original content of your C: drive boot sector - ie. code able to
load
> > your original win9x system. It is very important to do not lost this
file
> if
> > you want to start your win9x system at future. Even there is method how
to
> > recreate win9x bootsector code, I am not sure it will be functional for
> you
> > due your partition configuration.
>
> Interesting stuff... I also tried installing NT to my laptop, but darn it,
> that wouldn't work either; blue-screened, complaining of not detecting
boot
> device or something (laptop does ot have floppy disk drive, but has a CD
> drive of course!).
>
> So frustrating!
>
>
> --
> --
> Jason Teagle
> jason@teagster.co.uk
>
>
Anonymous
May 25, 2004 4:18:30 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

> Yes, notebooks often contain proprietary designed parts and most of
notebook
> hardware require PnP or PnP like support from operating system side to be
> functional. Installation of Windows NT without proper support disk from
> notebook manufacturer is real pain. Unfortunately NT setup need floppy
drive
> to load special drivers during manual setup, so eventual NT drivers
> downloaded from laptop manufacturer will not help you. You can, however,
> prepare unattended setup script and copy all files to laptop disk and
> install using it, but preparation of correct installation script, correct
> driver files and folder structure is not easy task.

Wow... think I'll forget that one then {;v)

I think my only sensible option is to bite the bullet and rearrange the
partitions on the first HDD on the test machine - a pain, but probably
necessary. For just a silly test setup this is far too much hassle!


--
--
Jason Teagle
jason@teagster.co.uk
!