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Socket 939 "obsolete"??

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December 29, 2005 9:31:35 PM

Howdy,
Very non-hardware guy wondering if anyone has seen or heard this. Saw something about it in Maximum PC. As I plan to build my first rig this year, and I want it to be top of the line at least for a month or so, would it be worth it to wait for DDR2 to become mainstream. Would it even make a difference?? THanks

More about : socket 939 obsolete

December 30, 2005 12:37:49 AM

It depends on what exactly you plan on doing? I would say your title is a little extreme and imagine it will make quite a subject here. As far as using your computer for multi-tasking, the Dual processors use a 939 socket and are proven to perform at top notch after adding overclocking or adding serveral top notch components. If you plan on using this new technology for gaming, it has been proven through tests and 3Dbenchmarks, that the processors seldomly help in computer gaming. This is assuming you dont have a very low performing processor, like *cough INTEL*. AMD's present products, for the most part are affordable and use the 939 socket, unless you count the FX 55/57 or Opteron 152 or something extreme which will run you anywhere from 820 - 1200 dollars. Each of these are discussed fully all over the web describing the pros and cons. To say the 939 is obsolete is a strong statement, I would say that it is present fad, but like any fad will eventually be played out.

Well...about that DDR2, unless you plan on spending major mula, because any new technology costs hella money, the best route to go is with things that have been reviewed and tested, such as the 939 or any other board. I believe by the time the DDR2 comes out, the 939 board will be masterd enough to come almost next to or very close to it in performance.

Man, so much to say...ahah good topic, definitely saving this discussion, very interesting for both sides. OK good luck with your decision

Marcus
December 30, 2005 12:46:52 PM

Thanks for the info. And jsut so you don't think I was making this up, I found the Article in Maximum PC, January 2006, Volume 11, No. 1, page 28. They were doing a comparison of Best midrange dual-core CPUs, and declared AMD 64 X2 4400+ the winner, but stated "All Socket 939 boards and processors will be obsolete next year when AMD introduces DDR2 support". While technology increases are a good thing, obviously, it really gets frustrating for guys like me who want to have/build something of quality that won't be last year's Turkey as soon as it get placed on my desk. Oh well, that's what I get for being a closet tech head. Thanks again for the post.
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December 30, 2005 2:05:45 PM

What a coincidence, I was going to buy the 4400 without doing any major research. You see I just recently really got into Computer Hardware about six weeks ago. Ive always wanted to be able to build my own computer and decided to finally just start with something. I was pretty much in your situation, I wanted to buy something up to date, but at the same time I didnt want to chop off my leg to pay for it. Instead of getting that X2 4400, I've planned on getting a Opteron 146 at tankguys.biz . <<<they let you pick the stepping code of a processor and if you do any reasearch on this processor, you will find that stepping code CABYE or CABNE is what you want...pretty much they are hard to find but will run close or near to 3.0GHZ when they are stock 2.0.

Overall, it wont hurt to practice though, I thnk buying a moderate computer will help with learning how to put it together and possibly upgrading after.

Hope this helps...

Marcus
December 30, 2005 9:08:29 PM

Just assembled an Opteron 175 and it is sweet. Using the ATI Radeon Xpress Crossfire chipset...
December 31, 2005 1:18:51 AM

Ha, man I would love to have one of those Optys...I have decided on a 150. By the way, How is that ATI Crossfire video card?? I was ATI crazy till the 7 series came out for NVIDEA, and XFX is all I need to say. Keep me informed on how it works out. THanks..

Marcus
December 31, 2005 1:35:29 AM

I confirmed today through a computer tech at a local store that AMD will indeed be going to DD2 with a new chipset. I guess that's good news, as the current 939 group will get cheaper. Really thinking of going X2 4800+ with SLI config. I can't imagine that a setup like that, coupled with say 2GB of Ram won't be cutting edge for a while, even if 939 goes away. Plus, while I really have no clue about overclocking, but if I did decide to try it, I think ill be able to push a system like that pretty hard. Any clue if the Opteron has a dual core option??
December 31, 2005 2:26:44 AM

Hello,

I heard and read many of the crossfire mobos are not that good in particular DFI's and Asus. So many bad reviews and few good. Not to mention there's not that many out there.
December 31, 2005 2:37:25 AM

Quote:
I confirmed today through a computer tech at a local store that AMD will indeed be going to DD2 with a new chipset. I guess that's good news, as the current 939 group will get cheaper. Really thinking of going X2 4800+ with SLI config. I can't imagine that a setup like that, coupled with say 2GB of Ram won't be cutting edge for a while, even if 939 goes away. Plus, while I really have no clue about overclocking, but if I did decide to try it, I think ill be able to push a system like that pretty hard. Any clue if the Opteron has a dual core option??


YES INDEED, your rig will be very well off for a good while with the SLI and Processor. The Opterons start with dual core capability starting with the 170 model, there are serveral ones and it was explained to me that the Opteron 175 is the equivalent to the X2 4400. Good luck man, keep me informed how it goes. I definitely want the Opty 150 but have hopes of overclockin as well. Never did it either but check some posts out from "fishmahn" he seems to explain it very well. Ok peace

Marcus
January 1, 2006 1:35:24 AM

Quote:
I confirmed today through a computer tech at a local store that AMD will indeed be going to DD2 with a new chipset. I guess that's good news, as the current 939 group will get cheaper. Really thinking of going X2 4800+ with SLI config. I can't imagine that a setup like that, coupled with say 2GB of Ram won't be cutting edge for a while, even if 939 goes away.


Nutz, I just built that almost that exact rig. :roll:

Performs great. 12000 on 3DMark05.

Abit KN8 SLI
2 eVga 7800 GT CO (470 MHz GPU, 1100 MHz mem - stock) - SLi enabled
4400+ X2 (oc'ed to 2.42 GHz - same as 4800+)
2 GB Ram
January 1, 2006 5:52:44 PM

I just got an Opteron 175 on the Asus A8R-MVP mobo, and it seems like a great mobo to me, with good overclocking potential.
January 7, 2006 8:56:24 AM

Quote:
Howdy,
Very non-hardware guy wondering if anyone has seen or heard this. Saw something about it in Maximum PC. As I plan to build my first rig this year, and I want it to be top of the line at least for a month or so, would it be worth it to wait for DDR2 to become mainstream. Would it even make a difference?? THanks


It depends if you ever intend to upgrade your CPU, the 4800+ (or poss 5000+) x2 most likely will be the fastest CPU that will ever be made for socket 939, after March / April this year all new AMD CPU's will be socket M2. Pers I would wait if you can.
January 9, 2006 1:36:22 PM

Quote:
Howdy,
Very non-hardware guy wondering if anyone has seen or heard this. Saw something about it in Maximum PC. As I plan to build my first rig this year, and I want it to be top of the line at least for a month or so, would it be worth it to wait for DDR2 to become mainstream. Would it even make a difference?? THanks


It depends if you ever intend to upgrade your CPU, the 4800+ (or poss 5000+) x2 most likely will be the fastest CPU that will ever be made for socket 939, after March / April this year all new AMD CPU's will be socket M2. Pers I would wait if you can.

That's what I was looking for, thanks man. Is there a thread on Socket M2 somewhere here? I plan on waiting, I think, unless someone could persuade me otherwise that the 4800+ will sustain my needs for the next 3-5 years. I just think that DDR2 that will come with the new socket will offer the additional bandwidth needed for future applications. Maybe there already is enough?? Anyone?? Beuler??
January 9, 2006 1:53:04 PM

In response to the fastest 939 socket processor comment....The fx-60 drops tommorrow....dual core 2.6ghz. should be damn fast enough for me!
January 13, 2006 6:51:10 PM

it boils down to the fact of what someone said earlier in the post, new technology is always hella expensive and it could take up to a year to get the technology around to where all the bugs are worked out. i just built a 939 system with the 4200+ and im perfectly happy with it...i can't imagine that the whole ddr2 thing is going to be all that exciting...extra bandwidth is swell but is there anything out there that can use it? a trickle of water flows the same through a 4" pipe as it does a 4' pipe.

AMD X2 4200+
MSI K8N-Neo2
evga 6800gt
2gb (4x512mb crucial ballistix)
January 14, 2006 7:59:42 AM

I'd stick with my DDR with faster timings than the DDR2 and be forced to use timings that are 1.5X as slow.

As somebody already said, it's going to take a while, at least a few months, for the technology to really become mainstream, if it does. Switching an entire socket - ending a line of magnificient 939's - is a big deal, and it's not going to happen overnight, not matter how hard AMD pushes AM2.

My overclocked Opty165 serves what I need to do just fine. Although, jrnyfan, unless you're word-processing all day, I wouldn't use that 'trickle of water' analogy.

For my media work, I still use my G5, but for everything else, my 939 works just fine. Unless the new line of chips [and yes, AMD's pushing them out by the truckload] encourages new applications that eat up more resources at a rate faster than usual, I can't imagine a system, like the one I'm running, for example, becoming 'obsolete' for quite some time. Hell, the computer I'm using now is a 6 year old socket 423 (intel...lol), and I can do everything regular people on it, from surfing, email, project/data management, etc - just no heavy gaming or media work.

In short, no. The socket 939 will not become obsolete for some time.
January 14, 2006 9:27:34 AM

I dont think 939 will be obsolete at all. I know most people feel the same way but we could be wrong. I have read that the new chips will support 667mhz DDR2 which is alot better than it only supporting 553. Thats would be something that Intel would do (did). The bigger question is support for CAS 3 (vice CAS 4) latency DDR-2 which I dont think would happen and if it did would really bite into AMDs price advantage. I am pretty sure CAS 3 DDR-2 RAM will cost more than CAS 4 DDR-2. Unless CAS 3 DDR-2 is supported, I dont think the new CPUs will offer a trans-generational increase in performance (like the original 754 A64s did compared to the athlon XP.
The other issue is heat. The new chips will dissipate 95 watts vs 67 watts now. I dont know what that means in terms of heat (degrees celsius) but I dont think the lower voltage of DDR-2 will compensate for the newer heat specs. It is arguable that the new Pentium's coming out in the second half will run at 95 watts too. Again, this will errode AMD's temp advantage with this new chip.
Another issue is the newer platform that will have all of the obvious bugs and teething issues. The newer platform may notperform like people expects due to this. i think up to a year may be needed to squeeze all of the performance out of this new platform.
IMHO, I think M2 will be just like the Newcastle core A64. It may have allowed access to 939 but it was just the first step of many that would REALLY make 939 a better option than 754. I feel sorry for those who jumped on 939 when it first came out. By the time 939 had run its course, a 2ghz Venice core equals a 2.2 ghz newcastle all the while being cheaper, cooler, and mby most account better for overclocking. Maybe it will be just like the northwood vs prescott thing. Even with DDR-2, 65nm fabrication, and double the L2 cache, its not worth it to replace a northwood with a prescott. I really dont care. I am buying into 939 in Feb. I dont feel like waiting until May or June to get something that I don think will perform that much better and may even cost more. AMD is not going to let the cat out of the bag all at once. 1st gen M2s will have AT LEAST 3 or 4 upgrades. Unless you get a mobo future proofed for support for 800 and 1066 Mhz DDR-2, you are going to have to buy a new CPU, mobo, and RAM again and again, and again. I hope AMD doesnt start acting like Intel now that it has tasted a lot of success
January 14, 2006 8:21:05 PM

good stuff, dux. the temps aren't THAT much of a problem if the chips can handle it until case cooling becomes a problem. for people who want 939's in general, if you want a low-end system, ie. 3200+ venice/3700+ san diego, $175/$215 is pretty much as low as it'll get - you might as well consider getting it now, since there just isn't enough room left to drop to justify having to go on with a slow comp [assuming thats why you're getting a new one] for another X months. if you want to go dual core, x2/opty, you may want to wait and see if the opty 165/x2 3800 or oty 170 will drop to perhaps 250-300 and 300-350, but again, if having a better/newer system up and running X months in advance is worth $100 to you, then just go for it.

where you save the most money is buying a $200 chip and overclocking it to a $300, not waiting X months for the price on the chip to drop $50.
January 14, 2006 10:08:53 PM

Great info Dux. I agree that to wait would be a study in infrustration, as any processor/chipset based on M2, socket 940(?) would only upgrade within months. Now the question for me is, which way to go FX-60 or Intel 955. Both seem shit hot, and Intel appears to have solved the heat dissipation problems significantly. I looked at a recent performance study of the two and it was essentially a wash for a large number of games. Man, this is killing me. I guess the best thing is that I have the time to study, and money isn't a big deal, as I have budgeted about $3,000 (including monitor) for this project. I just want to get the best bang for my buck.
January 15, 2006 2:37:25 AM

im assume you mean you want to get the best bang for your three thousand bucks, b/c if you wanna get the best bang for your buck straight up, the answer does not lie in spending three thousand bucks.

anyway, fx60. [now, wasnt that simple :-)]
January 15, 2006 6:27:03 AM

I read the toms article about the new line of chips again. Dude, it says that semprons will also use the M2 and will span from 1.6-2.2 ghz. I mean, the sempron is already way better than the celeron series. But this means that high end semprons will be just as fast as the low end of intel's mainstream chips. I wonder if AMD is going to keep the same pricing scheme as they do now. That means a 2.2 ghz chip for 120 or so. I wonder if this means that buyers of the new M2 will opt for a fast sempron to overclock instead of paying 250 for an entry level athlon. Maybe this will cannabalize sales from the mainstream chips. I always thought that the new semprons would be on the 939 setup. Maybe what AMD is thinking, is that if they keep both chips on the same platform, people will buy a sempron to start and buy an athlon later on (making the consumer buy twice). I dont know, but this is totally crazy if you ask me.
January 15, 2006 8:00:45 AM

After reading Maximum PC for a while, it does have it's uses but these guys test new rigs and then don't have to live with them. This move seems particularly *market driven* in that AMD is already performance king, for the forseeable future. If you're a cutting edge guy with a lot of $ and love to tinker and upgrade, fine. The problem with PC's is they're just too good;
This one: Athlon XP2000/AsusA7n266VM/768Mgs.PC266/etc. is now almost 7 years old and is still running like the day it was new. It will play HL 1 fine, but I use it for the internet and the Soundstorm onboard sounds as good as the Audigy to me.
This one:AthlonXP2500/AbitNF7@2.2Ghz, also with the excellent nVidia Soundstorm. I don't mean to suggest for a minute that these somewhat older products are as good as new, but I mean they're almost worthless on the open market, the depreciation is so high versus their usability. I am ready to upgrade again but since I'm not a gamer particularly it's strictly something I want, not something I really need since I already benchmark faster than the slower Athlon 64's. Nothing is obsolete if you have a use for it
January 16, 2006 7:59:58 AM

These days are fast, nothing lasts..
January 16, 2006 8:24:59 AM

I agree. I have an XP-m 2400 that I overclocked. When I first OC'd I could get the thing stable @ 2.35 ghz for some short benchmarks. After awhile it wouldnt even boot at that speed. I could encode a 2 minute VOB into Divx in 1 min 45 sec. My buddy had a winchester athlon 64 3000 with crappy RAM and what not. It did the same task in 1 min 32 sec. Not bad considering it was 500 mhz slower. When the slowest chip from the new platform is faster than the fastest chip of the older platform, I think it may be time to upgrade! Which I am of course. In the case of the M2, I think it will be about 5-10% faster at the same clock speeds (less if the M2 has the same luck with DDR-2 as the prescott CPUs did). I just dont think its worth it IF you are sitting on any athlon computer right now. If I were an XP user, I would hold off until May and jump on the M2 bandwagon. I am getting an X2 based system in Feb (I think high end 939 chips will get more expensive until 2008) I dont plan to upgrade to any new AMD platform until the slowest CPU from the new line is faster than mine. just like I did with my XP setup. The only other sucky thing about the XP platform is no PCI-e support. That in itself is enough to make one upgrade.
!