Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (
More info?)
Jay,
Thanks for that very informative example. I agree that the ATC in real
life is quite a bit more involved than in FS2004. I like to think of the ATC
in FS2004 as the "Readers Digest" version of ATC ;-}. I have noticed in
FS2004 that the ATC doesn't handle VFR traffic exactly like in real life.
For example, I usually fly VFR out of a class C airport. Even though I am
flying VFR, I still have to request clearance from Clearance Delivery and
get a transponder code prior to contacting Ground Control to taxi. Then,
after takeoff, I am handed off to Departure Control which verifies radar
contact. Dep Con gives me traffic alerts all of the way out of class C,
then asks me to squawk VFR and switch to local frequency. None of this ever
happens in FS2004 though. In FS2004, I don't contact Clearance Delivery, or
get a squawk code, and the Tower switches me to local frequency almost
immediately after takeoff and I never have to use a transponder code other
than 1200. When entering class C while flying VFR in real life, I still have
to contact Approach Control prior to entry, and they once again give me a
transponder code and verify radar contact. They then give me traffic alerts
and vectors, if necessary, until they hand me off to the Tower frequency.
None of this happens in FS2004 either. I realize that the regulations say
that participation in positive control in class C is strictly voluntary for
VFR traffic, but in real life no-one refuses to "volunteer". Not that I am
complaining (too loudly). At least Microsoft tries. And for a $60 program,
it really does a pretty good job. I just hope no-one takes real-life flying
lessons and tries to use FS2004 ATC procedures. Take care....
Randy L.
"Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote in message
news:0910e.346$Mt5.136@fed1read01...
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
> news:fs00e.1355$gI5.956@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "Randy L."
>>> Once you are in Class B
>>> then you must stay on the approach frequency until App Con hands you off
>> to
>>> the Tower frequency.
>>
>> In the sim if you request clearance into class B they will never hand you
>> off to the Tower. :-(
>>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong... doesn't class B "feel" very much like IFR? I
>> mean, don't they assign altitudes and vector you through the space? Or,
>> do
>> they just move you out of the way of a conflict?
>>
>> Dallas
>>
>>
>
> You are under "positive control" but all aircraft always have a
> responsiblity to see and avoid other aircraft.
>
> I routinely transition the Phoenix Class Bravo via the N/S transition
> routes. Here's how it goes when I fly from KCHD (Chandler Muni) to KPRC
> (Love Field, Prescott, AZ):
>
> Take off from Chandler, climb to 3500' flying roughly due west. It is
> approx 10 miles or so from Chandler Muni to Firebird Lake which is a
> reporting point shown by the magenta flag symbol on a sectional or TAC
> chart. While heading to Firebird Lake I will:
>
> 1) Request frequency change from Chandler to contact Prescott FSS and open
> my flight plan
> 2) Pick up the Sky Harbor ATIS on Com 2
> 3) Dial up frequency to contact Phoenix Approach Control
> 4) Remain at 3500' to stay under the Class B floor.
>
> Me (25A): Phoenix Approach, Cessna N5225A is one mile east of Firebird
> Lake at three-thousand fife hundred feet with information "X" and would
> like to transition the Class Bravo northbound to the AVENT intersection,
> enroute Love Field, Prescott at eight-thousand, fife hundred feet. And,
> if able, would like a handoff to Albuqurque Center on the north side.
>
> Phoenix Approach (PA): Cessna N5225A squawk 0512 and remain clear of the
> Class Bravo.
>
> Me: Squawk 0512 and remain clear, Cessna N5225A
>
> <A moment or two pass and I might have to start a slow circling turn...>
>
> PA: Cessna 25A is cleared into the Class Bravo via the East (West)
> transtion, climb and maintain four-thousand, fife hundred feet...say type
> of aircraft.
> (- East / West Transition = the corridor in use based on traffic flow at
> Sky Harbor. Basically, ATC wants you crossing the airport at the lowest
> point of their traffic. If planes are landing and taking off to the west,
> you'll cross over the east end of the airport and vice versa.)
>
> 25A: Cessna 25A is cleared into the Class Bravo airspace via the East
> (West) transition, climb and maintain 4500'. Cessna 25A is a Charlie 172
> slant Golf (/G).
> (- The /G tells ATC that I have a GPS and can accept direct routings if
> need be.)
>
> I now aim straight for the area on the south side of the airport and the
> correct end of the airport over which I've been instructed to fly. I
> maintain my course following the freeways that the the corridor
> parralells. I am under positive control and they will call traffic. I'm
> expected to find it and report that I see it. I will never assume that
> ATC will call all conflicts so I'm heads up and looking around...a lot!!
>
> Once I get to the start point of the transition corridor, I will maintain
> my heading and altitude and will eventually get handed off to the
> controller working the northern half of the low altitude part of Class B.
> He/she may offer me a more direct heading if traffic allows but they will
> ususally keep me as low as possible until I'm well clear of the inner most
> ring of the Class B airspace. Eventually, I'll get instructed to proceed
> on course and can climb to 6500'...expect 8500' in ten minutes or so.
>
> It actually looks earilly like FS9. I see planes taxiing around on the
> ramp. Planes taking off to the west and planes coming in to land from the
> east. The relationship from Sky Harbor to downtown Phoenix is just about
> right in FS9. I have some photos I've taken while over Sky Harbor that
> could pass for screenshots in FS9 and vice versa. I've been co-alt with
> Dash 8's and 737s passing in front and behind me. I've even had a
> Citation Jet pass directly under me (on about the same heading...) while
> on approach to Scottsdale's RWY 3. ATC told me he would be passing from
> my 6 to 12 o'clock and lower...but it was still un-nerving to see him pop
> out right under my prop and extend away from me. I knew he saw me but I
> couldn't find him until he was out from under me.
>
> The return trip will work in a very similar fashion with one twist. Since
> I'm already getting flight following from Albuqurque Center, I'll get a
> handoff to Phoenix Approach from whom I MUST again get permission to enter
> Class B. They'll start working me down (from 9500') and have me cross Sky
> Harbor at either 3500' or 5500' until I'm about over South Mountain (the
> lump with TV towers south of Sky Harbor in FS9) whereupon I'll get the
> familiar: "Cessna 25A, Radar services terminated, Squawk 1-2-0-0,
> frequency change approaved, so long." I always try to offer up a quick
> "Thanks for your help, we'll see ya..." before I change freq to Chandler,
> tell them I'm over Firebird Lake descending to 2500 with "X" to land.
>
> I'll monitor 122.8 to make sure that noone is popping up out of Stellar
> Airpark (P19) and will usually get asked to report a 2 mile base entry for
> either 4L or 22R at Chandler.
>
> So, transitioning Class B is easy, but it's a little more involved than
> the folks at MS would have you believe.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jay Beckman
> PP-ASEL / Sim Pilot Too
> Chandler, AZ
>
>