Sign-in / Sign-up
Your question

Final decision: ATI X1800XT or NVidia 7800GTX

Tags:
  • Graphics Cards
  • ATI
  • Nvidia
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics Cards
December 31, 2005 7:54:13 AM

OK, I think I've sold my current video card and I have to make a decision in the next 2 days. Do I go with the ATI X1800XT video card, or the NVidia 7800GTX based card? Don't let price be a factor.

I will have to swap out my motherboard at this point too. So if I get the ATI card, I'll get the ATI (shown below), and if I get the NVidia card, I'll get an NV board (shwo below).

ATI Crossfire board (A8R-MVP ):
http://usa.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=15&l3=236&mo...

Asus NV SLI board (A8N32-SLI Deluxe)
http://usa.asus.com/products4.aspx?l1=3&l2=15&l3=0&mode...

I'm also getting the Creative Labs XiFi sound card too (the cheapest version).

I am really desparate for some good advice. So I thank all of you that come in and help me make a tough decision. Thank you so very much!

More about : final decision ati x1800xt nvidia 7800gtx

December 31, 2005 8:48:02 AM

7800GTX. Simply better.
December 31, 2005 8:58:26 AM

Quote:
7800GTX. Simply better.


I AM referring to the 256 Meg version, not the 512 Meg version. Is that still the case?

Also, image quality is very, very important to me. I like to run my games:

* 1600x1200
* 4x FSAA
* 16x Anistropic Filtering
* Best quality textures
* With all the detail cranked up (in-game)

Obviusly I can't do that with all games (or hardly any right now) - but that's my goal.
Related resources
December 31, 2005 10:16:05 AM

Ok. I would have to say the X1800XT is better when it comes down to the numbers. Generally speaking, Nvidia can put up better FPS, but ATI is better with eye candy and image quality. But I live by the maxim "liars figure and figure lie". Nvidia's 6000 and 7000 series is rock solid with lots of support and optimizations. I dont even think ATI's current X1000 series will be around that long cinsidering that ATI is testing the water by "semi-announcing" the X1900 ALREADY. I dont know if you can remember ATI's Radeon 7000, 7200, and 7500 series of cards. ATI knew the cards didnt satisfy consumer demand and that it was an inferior product compared to the Geforce 3 cards. Driver support was as weak as the card. Here is my point: So what if the X1800 cards can put out a few more Fps on certain games I would go with tried and tested. Here are the last 3 major graphics cards I have owned: ATI 9500 Pro, 9800 Pro, and the 9600 All in wonder. Both the 9500 and 9800 crapped out on me within a year or so. Massive artifacts on the 9500 Pro and all of a sudden my 9800 Pro just quit wanting to play certain DX9 games (non shooter curiously) Am I biased? No. Just more cautions. Not all people have had the problems I have but you asked so I gave my answer. I'm sure others will disagree. But if you wanting the X1800, I would actively seek out owners in your area because "seeing in believing" in my book.
December 31, 2005 10:21:28 AM

Well they are both excellent cards and both will give impressive results and will server you well.

You are going to get fan boy responses most of the time when asking the question which is better. Most people seem to have a preference to Ati or nvidia, myself I got for best value for money.

The better of the 2 is has to judge as it depends on the games you play check the benchmarks Here.

Now the ati card comes with 512mb and this will be a better long term option, but at the same time we have seen how quickly GPUs become out dated.
The ATI card also has onboard video encoding which is fast.

Personaly at the moment I would go with the X1800xt as it offers me the best performance for price at the moment.

Remember though Ati are releasing the X1900 soon if you can hold on and that will prob be the new champion.
December 31, 2005 10:40:07 AM

For the resolutiosn you are running at, the X1800XT 512mb will perform better than a 7800GTX 256mb. Are you sure u dont want two of these things at 1600x1200, depends what sort of frame rates you get, becuase bassically you are going to be maxing out even an uber card as the X1800XT, turning all the eye candy on and so forth.
December 31, 2005 11:27:38 AM

Yeah, try finding a 512mb 7800GTX...lol

When you compare, although I'd take the 512GTX over X1800XT.
You can just about get an XT for the price of the 256mb GTX.
So this kinda pushes your toward ATI.

Yes, Nvidia puts out higher frame rates, but ATI samples HDR and AA
simultaniously while the Nvidia line cannot. Which isnt necessarily a company breaker, I dont think should have been quickly overlooked by Nv.

Not to mention the 90nm process. Have you seen some of the Overclocking results for the 1800line? A 1800XL with 100% fan speed, stock cooler, I've seen people push 575/1200...so that line is very capable. Really, its your preference, both companies produce good cards, I"m sure you'd be pleased with either.
December 31, 2005 1:00:58 PM

my opinion ...go for 7800GTX ...I am not saying this because I am a fan boy ...but this is the truth .....
Nvidia cards are still the best in OpenGl applications....like DOOM 3 and Quake 4....
Nvidia cards have a wider support for games than ATI ones ..
for an example ...do you know FEAR...the game which has the most intensive graphic engine among all FPS shooters...full of soft shadowes and DX9 shaders ....
this game is supported by NVIDIA...and it runs far far better on nvidia's cards than ATI chipsets ...
it's true that Nvidia puts out more FPS ...but when AA & Af is turned on ...Nvidia FPS turn to be equal to ATI ones ...or a very little bit lower (1 FPS or 2 )..
I've read a lot of benchmarking on the internet ...I saw that 7800GTX is the master in some games ....but X1800XT is also the master in other games ....the difference between both of them is not worth to mention ...
the real card that masters both of them is 7800GTX 512MB ...which is actually the most powerfull card in the world right now ....
a b U Graphics card
December 31, 2005 4:22:56 PM

GF7800GTX 512MB > X1800XT > GF7800GTX 256MB. Of the two you mentioned the X1800XT is the more powerful choice. You don't buy these cards to play without eye candy, so look at benchies with FSAA And AF enabled, at your native or prefered gaming resolution. (assuming playable framerates in that game)
January 2, 2006 7:51:07 AM

I read that entire article... Sadly the games that are driving this upgrade are (and actually $600 is the most I can spend on the videocard):

* Rome Total War (with Barbarians expansion)
* Silent Hunter III
* Oblivion (sequel to Morrowind)

I want to get those games to run with every detail maxed out, high resolution with no slowdown whatsoever. Silent Hunter III has several add-on graphic mods available, but in a large battle in stormy weather the frame rate starts to slow down. So you could look at those 3 games and base my buying decision off of them directly.
January 2, 2006 9:37:06 AM

a nice 7800gt is good but if u wanna spend more 7800gtx because its lower in price for nearly the same performance as the x1800xt.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 3, 2006 6:18:08 AM

Quote:
my opinion ...go for 7800GTX ...I am not saying this because I am a fan boy ...but this is the truth .....


Yeah people espousing 'The Truth' are usually confusing fact with faith.

Quote:
Nvidia cards are still the best in OpenGl applications....like DOOM 3 and Quake 4....


Want to back that up with some recent proof with the latest drivers? That WAS the case but isn't anymore;

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/asus_extreme_x1800_xt_top/page8.asp
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/asus_extreme_x1800_xt_top/page9.asp

Looks like alot of give and take there.

Quote:
Nvidia cards have a wider support for games than ATI ones ..


Once again a little proof of that would be nice. Considering that the FX series are such orphans that statement's pretty optimistic.

Quote:
for an example ...do you know FEAR...the game which has the most intensive graphic engine among all FPS shooters...full of soft shadowes and DX9 shaders ....
this game is supported by NVIDIA...and it runs far far better on nvidia's cards than ATI chipsets ...


What a load of Crap! You're talking complete BS! :x

Once again, because something is a 'TWIMTBP' nV-title doesn't mean much. Just like the memorable examples of FartCry & UT2K4, ATi still plays better despite that nV logo;

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/asus_extreme_x1800_xt_top/page10.asp

Interestingly enough the regular X1800XT beats even the 512MB-GTX, so that pretty much destroys your theory. Of course there's other games too like BF2, COD2, and the HL2 mentioned previously .

Add that the performance of The SLi and Crossfire (especially their higher AA levels) and it's a complete romp;

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_x1800_xt_crossfire/page11.asp
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_x1800_xt_crossfire/page12.asp

Quote:
it's true that Nvidia puts out more FPS ...


Hardly true. Even for the extremely rare, highly OC'd and much more expensive GTX-512, that's not always the case. Every other card is pretty solid for it's price/performance.

Quote:
but when AA & Af is turned on ...Nvidia FPS turn to be equal to ATI ones ...or a very little bit lower (1 FPS or 2 )..


No the difference is far greater like I've shown, and it's not a question of bringing them equal, when AA+AF are used the X1800XT clobbers the GTX-256.

Quote:
I've read a lot of benchmarking on the internet ...I saw that 7800GTX is the master in some games ....but X1800XT is also the master in other games ....the difference between both of them is not worth to mention ...


Then why 'mention' those BS statements I quoted above? That doesn't follow that attitude which would more closely reflect the opinion of the people here who actually do know what they're talking about.

Quote:
the real card that masters both of them is 7800GTX 512MB ...which is actually the most powerfull card in the world right now ....


Well I wouldn't say it's the most 'powerful' card in the world, but it definitely performs better in more situation than it doesn't.

Of course considering that you can get 2 GF7800GTs for LESS than the GTX-512 it's really a moot point because they tend to smoke the GTX-512 in the most popular games, and all for less money too. OF course it's not as elegant to use SLi to achieve the same level of performance, but that fact alone should lower prices, but it doesn't because people follow blindly that moniker of 'fastest card in the world' which actually doesn't apply to all games like you can see in BF2, COD2 and F.E.A.R. :|

Now personally I just stick with the time tested mantra of "Both companies have great cards and it depends alot on the games you play and settings you prefer as to which is best". Far more accurate than anything you said. :roll:
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 3, 2006 6:46:33 AM

Quote:
I read that entire article... Sadly the games that are driving this upgrade are (and actually $600 is the most I can spend on the videocard):

* Rome Total War (with Barbarians expansion)
* Silent Hunter III
* Oblivion (sequel to Morrowind)

So you could look at those 3 games and base my buying decision off of them directly.


Simply put, I'll give you the adivce that I am taking for Oblivion (been waiting forever and the resident Morrowind fan).

Don't upgrade for future games until they at least preview the benchamarks.

Since Oblivion has been delayed 'til at least the end of the month (probably Feb or later), there's no way to know which will play better. Definitely for Oblivion it is breaking alot of new ground being one of the first titles to incorporate so many newer features together (Geometric Dynamic Branching support + HDR + Parralax Mapping [also normal + specular])
All of that together bodes for a very stressful game, and with all the other CPU heavy aspects you really should wait for thatr particular title especially, since it will be unlike anything else out there.

If you can wait 'til you see the games benchmarked, especially if that's after the release of the R580 or G71, both of which 'may' have more geometry power to handle the dense folliage, dense cities, varied terrain, etc.

You might even find that the top cards are a waste of money and a more powerful CPU or even moving to the XFi Fatal1ty board may be worth it if they improve performance. No one really knows for sure until the game starts previewing. As for the other games I'd say they probably more closely match some out there already, however until they preview too, you won't know if they play like a game favouring nV or a game favouring ATi.

If you can, wait otherwise read as many recent reviews as possible and decide which card fits the type of games you prefer and the settings you like.
January 3, 2006 6:50:50 AM

Man....you're making this game sound exciting

I think I seriously need to start readin up on it.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 3, 2006 7:25:42 AM

Well it's really best for those who are fans of the ElderScrolls series IMO, the way you are with racing games IIRC, cause I have a bunch of friends who just hate Morrowind and games like it but were blown away by the graphics when it launched. I think Oblivion will be the same in some ways, people may be impressed by it's features, but the gameplay might bore many people looking for something quicker (although supposedly Oblivion has alot less walking and should be faster than Morrowind).

Best place to see info on it is to go to ElderScrolls.com, there's some great interviews and great HD videos there (get the HD ones because the lower res are compressed and look blurry [IIRC they are 720P originals]);

http://www.elderscrolls.com/home/home.htm
http://www.elderscrolls.com/downloads/media_movies.htm

There's also a nice quicky interview from our friends at EB;
http://www.elitebastards.com/page.php?pageid=12316

For those who like this type of game it should be very good, although I doubt it'll be as groundbreaking as Morrwind was IMO.
January 3, 2006 5:14:54 PM

to: TheGreatGrapeApe :

I am sorry but my resourses say something completely different ...

here you say that X1800XT loses to a normal 7800GtX in FEAR and Quake 4 ...:
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/index.php?i=3028&s=9

the card you're talking about is ASUS X1800XT TOP ..this is a modified and overclocked card ..not the original ...and it's price is even higher ..

but okay here you see that that it's screwed by 7800GTX 512Mb (not overcloced) ...
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/index.php?i=3055&s=8

please tell me what does that suppose to mean .... :roll:


and onther evidence is Toms's hardware it self ...
here you see that the normal 7800GTX and 7800GTX 512 is kicking X1800XT out of the competition in FAR CRY and UT 2004 ...
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/14/nvidia/page10.ht...
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/14/nvidia/page9.htm...

want more? ..in DOOM 3 X1800XT loses behing all 7800 famillies at 1600X1200 4X AA ..8XAF ...even 7800GT beated it !!
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/14/nvidia/page11.ht...

even half life 2 ...stongest ATI's castle ...X1800XT is crashed at 1600X1200... 4X AA... by 7800GTX 512MB .....
http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/14/nvidia/page12.ht...


Please next time try not to depend on one source of infromation ...I mentioned you some of a lot more benchmarking as I said ...X1800XT and 7800GTX are equal ....but when comes to 7800GTX 512MB ..here we see the real master ...!
January 3, 2006 5:22:48 PM

Quote:
to: TheGreatGrapeApe :

I am sorry but my resourses say something completely different ...

here you say that X1800XT loses to a normal 7800GtX in FEAR and Quake 4 ...:
http://www.vr-zone.com.sg/index.php?i=3028&s=9

Please next time try not to depend on one source of infromation ...


Dude. He TOLD you the newer driver was the one that boosted OpenGL.

in your review they use Catalyst 5.12, and in Grape's they use the newer 5.13's.

Take your own advice and use multiple sources of information. But pay attention to the details, and maybe read them instead of just seeing the color bars on the benchmark graphs...



As far as mny opinion, between the X1800 XT and 7800 GTX 256, the X1800 is the card of choice because:

1- AVIVO hardware video acceleration (tasty)...
1- 512 Mb (not a big deal performancewise but nice to have for higher def texture sets)

At price parity and performance parity, these two push the X1800 XT over the top. if you have no use for video on your PC, then the choice becomes much tougher. But AVIVO is a VERY cool feature if you're at all into video.
January 3, 2006 5:58:35 PM

I might have considered buying a new ati card, but since they have the weakest warranty (1 year) , forget it! ive owned 3 ati cards and have had to rma 2 of them. So im jumping on the evga bandwagon with their lifetime warranty. Higher fps doesnt mean jack if your card dies a year and a day after you bought it
January 3, 2006 6:20:44 PM

That's not entirely true...

Third party manufacturers have 3 year warranties just like Nvidia cards. An Asus X1800 XT has a 3 year warranty, I can guarantee you that.

As well, OEM Ati cards might have a 1 year warranty, but retail box Ati's have 3 year I believe...
January 3, 2006 6:22:17 PM

I believe you are correct with ATI 3yr on the X1800XT, I know it is that way with HiS branded X1800's
January 3, 2006 6:44:03 PM

Quote:
in your review they use Catalyst 5.12, and in Grape's they use the newer 5.13's


yeah ...and that's all what I see from ATI ...drivers fixing bugs ..and another drivers fixing previous drivers ...

I were you I wouldn't count on a company that every once in a while has to release a driver for improving performance whenever a new taxing game appears ....

after how long ATI used Shader Model 3 and OpenGL Capabilities ...?
January 3, 2006 6:47:38 PM

Quote:
I were you I wouldn't count on a company that every once in a while has to release a driver for improving performance whenever a new taxing game appears ....


I see that as a good thing, They dont have to make things better for us.

Any way both ati and nvidia are releasing new drivers every week that fix or improve the old drivers
January 3, 2006 8:05:48 PM

Quote:
yeah ...and that's all what I see from ATI ...drivers fixing bugs ..and another drivers fixing previous drivers ...


Lol. Aren't you the one who claimed he wasn't a fanboy?

This statement - actually, your whole idiotic post - reeks of fanboyism, and as such we can pretty much discount anything you've said...

Watch out for goofs like this when you're taking advice, jpinard. Both Ati and Nvidia make excellent solutions in different price ranges, don't fall prey to brand ignorance.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 4, 2006 6:16:52 AM

Quote:

Please next time try not to depend on one source of infromation ...I mentioned you some of a lot more benchmarking as I said


Believe you me, I've seen far more benchmarks than you have and I actually take the time to read and absorb what they are saying, like Cleeve pointed out, you haven't bothered to do that. That isn't the only review that shows the GTX512 droping some benchmarks to the XT, it's simply the one with the current drivers, unlike yours.

Want more proof with the latest drivers, well here's DH's review results with FEAR :idea: ;
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/X18Crossfire/fear.htm

and BF2 :!: ;
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/X18Crossfire/bf2.htm

and Q4 :trophy: ;
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/X18Crossfire/q4.htm

I think that's a Hat-trick cofirming Firngsquad's findings.

So is it my not so limited number of reviews or your even more limited scope & falsehoods? :roll:

Also my original link shows the true HI Resolution and settings these cards excel at (yours sits at the same 16x12 4xAA/8XAF we've seen since the generation 4 cards, at least DH enables 16XAF in FEAR!). The fact of the matter is that my links show that your genarlized statements are BS, and that nV is not more compatible with games, nor that ATi is at a dissadvanatage due to the TWIMTBP program. I'm sure Cleeve would agree the situation is diffeent in the workstation market (IMO 3DLabs > nV > ATi in that areas), but when it comes to games, they are neck and neck, and equally cattered to.

Quote:
...X1800XT and 7800GTX are equal ....but when comes to 7800GTX 512MB ..here we see the real master ...!


Like I said it outperforms more than it loses, however it's far too expensive and far to vapourware to be an issue, especially when the original poster isn't even talking about that card (and for good reason since 2 GTs in SLi are cheaper [even after paying and SLi premium {heck could even buy an SLi board for the diff}] and easier to find).

Quote:
yeah ...and that's all what I see from ATI ...drivers fixing bugs ..and another drivers fixing previous drivers ...


HMmm, the X1800 architecture is only 2 drivers old, and the GF7800 series is about 6+months, yet they're still fixing bugs as well? So nV hasn't got it perfect yet either, oh wait that's right it's probably a BETA driver that fixes everything, as usual hope for a new BETA. That doesn't even touch the surface of issues like the texture shimmering and the forced filtering quality which are still present on the GF7 series.

Seriously dude, don't even bother going to the 'driver supperiority BS' since nV is far from being clean or even better anymore. This isn't your fathers Radeons vs Geforces.

Looking at Digit-Life's artifact gallery;

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/digest3d/1105/itogi-video-gallery-bugs.html

I see nV cards on there far more often than ATi cards. Neither is perfect, but the old motto of nV having better drivers is just that, old and not reflecting the current state of affairs.

Quote:
I were you I wouldn't count on a company that every once in a while has to release a driver for improving performance whenever a new taxing game appears ....


Then according to that you shouldn't get an nV based card since they ONLY launch BETA drivers when there is a new game it can't play, or another 'issue' that someone 'discovered'. The one thing ATi does do right and has for quite some time, is release drivers on a regular basis (every month or sooner) so that their gamers are able to keep up with the latest features/games. Just ask any GF6 owner during the early WideScreen era how long it took them to get support for their new Dell LCDs (something Kinney conceeded was a huge problem for him). Both companies have their issue, but if you're going to make that statement you're definitely barking up the wrong tree, and simply proving your n00b ignorance, either that or st00pid bias! :roll:

Quote:
after how long ATI used Shader Model 3 and OpenGL Capabilities ...?


And how long did it take for nV to get a DX9 card to market? I'd say ATi has no less credibility there, and what matters most to someone deciding between and X1800XT and GF7800GTX is the current situation (ATi's implementation of SM3.0 is arguably superior [OpenEXR-HDR + AA], and their OGL is quite capable as I've shown). So whatever your argument WAS only hurts your current position. Personally I don't think it matters much just like it didn't before, but if you're worried about more checkboxes, then ATi currently has the upper hand. Of course like I always say, what matters isn't the checboxes, but the performance and IQ in the games someone's playing.

Now get your facts straight before you post that kind of crap here, people are far better versed in the realities and history of this industry than you are. :roll:
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
January 4, 2006 6:27:14 AM

Quote:
That's not entirely true...

Third party manufacturers have 3 year warranties just like Nvidia cards. An Asus X1800 XT has a 3 year warranty, I can guarantee you that.


Gigabyte also has 3years.

Unfortunately HIS is only one year (as of their last e-mail to me in September [this may have changed for the X1800 series I don't know about those])

Quote:
As well, OEM Ati cards might have a 1 year warranty, but retail box Ati's have 3 year I believe...


Actually ATi has stopped the 3years for all new cards OEM and Retal, only their FireGL cards have 3 year warranties (I think they also have/had 5Y large contract warranties, but I'm not sure where those stand, supposedly the change was only for their gaming cards).

Funny thing is for eVGA many people are finding out that some of the GF6800GSs aren't covered by the lifetime warranty. eVGA ha a specific code for cards that comply with that, but many of the GSs don't match that (end in XT or TX or something instead of the supposrted suffixes).

So not all eVGA cards have lifetime warranties.

Anywho, I'd still prefer better warranties from OEMs but really that's up to the OEMs, if you thinik about it nV is no better since they don't actually sell cards. I just wish HIS would match eVGA XFX and BFG because then you'd have the best of both worlds no matter which architecture you decide to buy.

EDIT add in something that needs props;

Quote:
Both Ati and Nvidia make excellent solutions in different price ranges, don't fall prey to brand ignorance.


Nice! 8)

And that's pretty much the motto around here despite what some people may think. We all have our preferences, but that should never cloud recommendations to other people's money or discussion of a technical nature.