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How to undo 6-7 yrs of inexperienced "tinkering" with serv..

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Anonymous
November 10, 2004 9:19:04 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

I am trying to upgrade and repair an existing (dual processor, dual HD) NT
4.0 PDC Server (very small network for a small job shop/manufacturing
business.) Some hardware is being upgraded (RAM & an additional external or
removable HD for data storage and barcode terminals installed on the shop
floor). My initial problem/question is with the server operating system (NT
4.0 Server), and I think this has to be solved first, before we can move
forward with the rest. Everything was wonderfully set up at first, appx 6-7
yrs. ago, but an inexperienced "network admin" has changed that over the
years. (And I'm a small business owner, not an IT person and am unsure and
hesitant about how best to proceed.) The system is miraculously stable,
considering all it's gone through, but many of the services, etc. can't be
run because they've been fouled up with "tinkering". I'm wondering if there
is a way to repair the system without doing a reinstall, without a repair
disk and without undoing disk formatting, partitioning, striping, etc.. I'm
not concerned about losing the user accts since rights & permissions have
been set for individual users rather than groups, sometimes on folders,
sometime on individual files, sometimes they work like they're supposed to,
many times they don't, etc., etc. It's terribly confusing and difficult
trying to track down who has what rights and permissions to what, if they
should or shouldn't and why they do or don't....... that's a mess too. If
I can first get the Server system back to a smooth, effective operating
state, with all its capabilities "intact", I think we can move forward from
there and navigate through issues with network users and resources. (But I
could be wrong!) I am very appreciative of all input
Anonymous
November 10, 2004 1:51:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

NT4 is not easily restored like Win98 is. With something like Win98 you can
simply reinstall over the top of itself to replace any system files
typically and you will be fine. You CANNOT do this with NT4. There really is
no easy way to do what you are thinking. Your best bet is to fix/recover the
errors or problems that you may be having. What kind of problems are you
having? What Service Pack are you at? Usually most 'tinkering' can be fixed
but we have to know what issue you have to lead you in the right direction.
NT4 is very picky about certain things and repairing the OS is one of them.
You really have to know what you are doing to make this succesfull.

--
Scott Harding
MCSE, MCSA, A+, Network+
Microsoft MVP - Windows NT Server

"jane" <jane@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:24A6A6C5-B209-45B7-84A1-FC2D1C34B27C@microsoft.com...
> I am trying to upgrade and repair an existing (dual processor, dual HD) NT
> 4.0 PDC Server (very small network for a small job shop/manufacturing
> business.) Some hardware is being upgraded (RAM & an additional external
or
> removable HD for data storage and barcode terminals installed on the shop
> floor). My initial problem/question is with the server operating system
(NT
> 4.0 Server), and I think this has to be solved first, before we can move
> forward with the rest. Everything was wonderfully set up at first, appx
6-7
> yrs. ago, but an inexperienced "network admin" has changed that over the
> years. (And I'm a small business owner, not an IT person and am unsure
and
> hesitant about how best to proceed.) The system is miraculously stable,
> considering all it's gone through, but many of the services, etc. can't be
> run because they've been fouled up with "tinkering". I'm wondering if
there
> is a way to repair the system without doing a reinstall, without a repair
> disk and without undoing disk formatting, partitioning, striping, etc..
I'm
> not concerned about losing the user accts since rights & permissions have
> been set for individual users rather than groups, sometimes on folders,
> sometime on individual files, sometimes they work like they're supposed
to,
> many times they don't, etc., etc. It's terribly confusing and difficult
> trying to track down who has what rights and permissions to what, if they
> should or shouldn't and why they do or don't....... that's a mess too.
If
> I can first get the Server system back to a smooth, effective operating
> state, with all its capabilities "intact", I think we can move forward
from
> there and navigate through issues with network users and resources. (But
I
> could be wrong!) I am very appreciative of all input
Anonymous
November 10, 2004 9:21:02 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Well, good news/bad news, but not unexpected from what I've been reading. At
least you give me hope. The machine is off-line right now, awaiting arrival
of memory, etc., and (I was hoping) a fix for the bugs. It should be ready
to at least reboot by the middle of next week, and I will certainly post
again and offer more specific details. I beleive we're at a very early
service pack, and possibly only as far as whatever was installed initially,
but I'll get that information first thing. As long as it was doing its job
as log-on server and file sharing for the office and owners, I've pretty much
left it alone for fear of making it worse and rendering it totally useless.
But with the expansion of the network into the shop and bringing in machine
operators, using a barcode system and a new production tracking program as
well as a pretty rapid, recent expansion of remote use, getting the bugs out
of the server system would likely extend our use of NT for several more
years, and we'd actually make use of many of the features we haven't taken
advantage of until now. NT was WAY more than we needed when our network was
"young", and now that we could really put it to good use, I've feared it's
crippled beyond my ability to fix it. (Small rural area and no access to
"live" help.) The fact that it has continued to function adequately up until
now, 24/7, for 6+ yrs., despite everything, has left me with a great respect
for NT (as well as the hardware). I will post again with better information
a.s.a.p. and thank you sincerely for your help, Mr. Harding.

> NT4 is not easily restored like Win98 is. With something like Win98 you can
> simply reinstall over the top of itself to replace any system files
> typically and you will be fine. You CANNOT do this with NT4. There really is
> no easy way to do what you are thinking. Your best bet is to fix/recover the
> errors or problems that you may be having. What kind of problems are you
> having? What Service Pack are you at? Usually most 'tinkering' can be fixed
> but we have to know what issue you have to lead you in the right direction.
> NT4 is very picky about certain things and repairing the OS is one of them.
> You really have to know what you are doing to make this succesfull.
>
> --
> Scott Harding
> MCSE, MCSA, A+, Network+
> Microsoft MVP - Windows NT Server
>
> "jane" <jane@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:24A6A6C5-B209-45B7-84A1-FC2D1C34B27C@microsoft.com...
> > I am trying to upgrade and repair an existing (dual processor, dual HD) NT
> > 4.0 PDC Server (very small network for a small job shop/manufacturing
> > business.) Some hardware is being upgraded (RAM & an additional external
> or
> > removable HD for data storage and barcode terminals installed on the shop
> > floor). My initial problem/question is with the server operating system
> (NT
> > 4.0 Server), and I think this has to be solved first, before we can move
> > forward with the rest. Everything was wonderfully set up at first, appx
> 6-7
> > yrs. ago, but an inexperienced "network admin" has changed that over the
> > years. (And I'm a small business owner, not an IT person and am unsure
> and
> > hesitant about how best to proceed.) The system is miraculously stable,
> > considering all it's gone through, but many of the services, etc. can't be
> > run because they've been fouled up with "tinkering". I'm wondering if
> there
> > is a way to repair the system without doing a reinstall, without a repair
> > disk and without undoing disk formatting, partitioning, striping, etc..
> I'm
> > not concerned about losing the user accts since rights & permissions have
> > been set for individual users rather than groups, sometimes on folders,
> > sometime on individual files, sometimes they work like they're supposed
> to,
> > many times they don't, etc., etc. It's terribly confusing and difficult
> > trying to track down who has what rights and permissions to what, if they
> > should or shouldn't and why they do or don't....... that's a mess too.
> If
> > I can first get the Server system back to a smooth, effective operating
> > state, with all its capabilities "intact", I think we can move forward
> from
> > there and navigate through issues with network users and resources. (But
> I
> > could be wrong!) I am very appreciative of all input
>
>
>
Anonymous
November 11, 2004 11:58:11 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Let us know when you get the machine back up and what kind of errors your
getting and what the Event Viewer shows for errors and we should be able to
help get you on your way. I would be very cautios about thinking that this
machine will last much longer though. NT4 is 10yrs old now and you state
your hardware is getting old too. You cannot think that this machine will
keep going and going you really should start thinking about replacing the
machine and getting a more current operating system. Hard drives and systems
break/crash everyday and 6+yrs for a machine to be running would make me
very nervous about some kind of imminent hardware failure. Certainly we will
try to help but this should be something to strongly consider since it
sounds like your are now relying on this system in a bigger way than ever
before. But of course this is just my $0.02! ;) 

--
Scott Harding
MCSE, MCSA, A+, Network+
Microsoft MVP - Windows NT Server

"jane" <jane@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0188172D-3E65-4012-AFB8-831C3AE77F31@microsoft.com...
> Well, good news/bad news, but not unexpected from what I've been reading.
At
> least you give me hope. The machine is off-line right now, awaiting
arrival
> of memory, etc., and (I was hoping) a fix for the bugs. It should be
ready
> to at least reboot by the middle of next week, and I will certainly post
> again and offer more specific details. I beleive we're at a very early
> service pack, and possibly only as far as whatever was installed
initially,
> but I'll get that information first thing. As long as it was doing its
job
> as log-on server and file sharing for the office and owners, I've pretty
much
> left it alone for fear of making it worse and rendering it totally
useless.
> But with the expansion of the network into the shop and bringing in
machine
> operators, using a barcode system and a new production tracking program as
> well as a pretty rapid, recent expansion of remote use, getting the bugs
out
> of the server system would likely extend our use of NT for several more
> years, and we'd actually make use of many of the features we haven't taken
> advantage of until now. NT was WAY more than we needed when our network
was
> "young", and now that we could really put it to good use, I've feared it's
> crippled beyond my ability to fix it. (Small rural area and no access to
> "live" help.) The fact that it has continued to function adequately up
until
> now, 24/7, for 6+ yrs., despite everything, has left me with a great
respect
> for NT (as well as the hardware). I will post again with better
information
> a.s.a.p. and thank you sincerely for your help, Mr. Harding.
>
> > NT4 is not easily restored like Win98 is. With something like Win98 you
can
> > simply reinstall over the top of itself to replace any system files
> > typically and you will be fine. You CANNOT do this with NT4. There
really is
> > no easy way to do what you are thinking. Your best bet is to fix/recover
the
> > errors or problems that you may be having. What kind of problems are you
> > having? What Service Pack are you at? Usually most 'tinkering' can be
fixed
> > but we have to know what issue you have to lead you in the right
direction.
> > NT4 is very picky about certain things and repairing the OS is one of
them.
> > You really have to know what you are doing to make this succesfull.
> >
> > --
> > Scott Harding
> > MCSE, MCSA, A+, Network+
> > Microsoft MVP - Windows NT Server
> >
> > "jane" <jane@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:24A6A6C5-B209-45B7-84A1-FC2D1C34B27C@microsoft.com...
> > > I am trying to upgrade and repair an existing (dual processor, dual
HD) NT
> > > 4.0 PDC Server (very small network for a small job shop/manufacturing
> > > business.) Some hardware is being upgraded (RAM & an additional
external
> > or
> > > removable HD for data storage and barcode terminals installed on the
shop
> > > floor). My initial problem/question is with the server operating
system
> > (NT
> > > 4.0 Server), and I think this has to be solved first, before we can
move
> > > forward with the rest. Everything was wonderfully set up at first,
appx
> > 6-7
> > > yrs. ago, but an inexperienced "network admin" has changed that over
the
> > > years. (And I'm a small business owner, not an IT person and am
unsure
> > and
> > > hesitant about how best to proceed.) The system is miraculously
stable,
> > > considering all it's gone through, but many of the services, etc.
can't be
> > > run because they've been fouled up with "tinkering". I'm wondering if
> > there
> > > is a way to repair the system without doing a reinstall, without a
repair
> > > disk and without undoing disk formatting, partitioning, striping,
etc..
> > I'm
> > > not concerned about losing the user accts since rights & permissions
have
> > > been set for individual users rather than groups, sometimes on
folders,
> > > sometime on individual files, sometimes they work like they're
supposed
> > to,
> > > many times they don't, etc., etc. It's terribly confusing and
difficult
> > > trying to track down who has what rights and permissions to what, if
they
> > > should or shouldn't and why they do or don't....... that's a mess too.
> > If
> > > I can first get the Server system back to a smooth, effective
operating
> > > state, with all its capabilities "intact", I think we can move forward
> > from
> > > there and navigate through issues with network users and resources.
(But
> > I
> > > could be wrong!) I am very appreciative of all input
> >
> >
> >
Anonymous
December 1, 2004 1:37:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.setup (More info?)

Jane,

Its hard to tell you how to undo what has been done without a fresh install.
That old OS does not have any kind of "Restore" feature. I do a suggestion:

I would suggest going onto EBay and buying a used server, possibly a little
newer or faster than the one you currently have. Do a fresh install of NT
server on this and then connect it to your network. Promote this newer
server to the PDC and use your old one as the BDC. It is always recommended
that you have two servers on any network. A primary and backup. You can
then migrate all your data over to the newer server and then do a fresh
install of the old server as well. This should set you up nicely. We are
not talking serious bucks here. You should be able to get a nice server of
EBay for $400.

Hope this helps

Brandon Sewall, SSgt, USAF
MCP, MCSA, ISSO


"jane" wrote:

> I am trying to upgrade and repair an existing (dual processor, dual HD) NT
> 4.0 PDC Server (very small network for a small job shop/manufacturing
> business.) Some hardware is being upgraded (RAM & an additional external or
> removable HD for data storage and barcode terminals installed on the shop
> floor). My initial problem/question is with the server operating system (NT
> 4.0 Server), and I think this has to be solved first, before we can move
> forward with the rest. Everything was wonderfully set up at first, appx 6-7
> yrs. ago, but an inexperienced "network admin" has changed that over the
> years. (And I'm a small business owner, not an IT person and am unsure and
> hesitant about how best to proceed.) The system is miraculously stable,
> considering all it's gone through, but many of the services, etc. can't be
> run because they've been fouled up with "tinkering". I'm wondering if there
> is a way to repair the system without doing a reinstall, without a repair
> disk and without undoing disk formatting, partitioning, striping, etc.. I'm
> not concerned about losing the user accts since rights & permissions have
> been set for individual users rather than groups, sometimes on folders,
> sometime on individual files, sometimes they work like they're supposed to,
> many times they don't, etc., etc. It's terribly confusing and difficult
> trying to track down who has what rights and permissions to what, if they
> should or shouldn't and why they do or don't....... that's a mess too. If
> I can first get the Server system back to a smooth, effective operating
> state, with all its capabilities "intact", I think we can move forward from
> there and navigate through issues with network users and resources. (But I
> could be wrong!) I am very appreciative of all input
!