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Anyone using Canon Pixma with non-canon cartridges?

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November 2, 2004 5:27:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Hello

I need to do short and long runs of flyers for mailing (mostly black text, some photos)

I will never need to print photos on photo quality paper.

I can get replacement cartridges very, very cheap which makes it less expensive in the long run than getting a colour laser printer.

I would like to know your personal experience using the ip4000 or ip5000 with replacement cartridges continously........ has anyone used them non-stop since they bought their printer? How many have you used so far? Please mention if you refill yourself or buy no-name cartridges ready to go. How is your print quality now compared to the original cartridge the printer came with?

The main problem with using these dodgy cartridges appears to be clogging of the print head. I would be interested in anyone's thoughts on which printer would be best with non-original cartridges. Would the ip4000 with the 2 picoliter droplets be better than the ip5000 with the 1 picolitre droplets, as it is wider and therefore less chance of clogging?
Anonymous
March 31, 2005 11:02:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns962AB5F2C2A0Amapi@216.168.3.64...
> The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads me
> to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places, and they
> sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that they can't
> say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales of bulk ink to
> HP and Canon et al.
>
> The formula and the ink is pretty basic.

Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives optimum
lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image quality, optical
density, color balance and other parameters while still maintaining nozzle
health is not something printer manufacturers just pick off the shelf. Printer
companies invest heavily in ink chemistry and they typically own the
intellectual property of given formulations. HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred
of ink related patents.

- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
Anonymous
April 1, 2005 12:59:21 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I agree with Bob, that a great deal of investment is made in designing
the OEM inks. However, many of these designs (which they patent) are
not so much improvements as they are designed to make it difficult to
replicate without patent violation. Now this is not the case in every
patent they make regarding inks, but I've seen some of the Canon, HP,
and Epson patents and it looks like every thing they do they get a
patent for it, whether it has some benefit or not. Given the prices HP
and other companies charge for the cartridges they well afford to
obtain and enforce such patents.

Don't get me wrong, I love HP laser printers (I can live without their
inkjets). But I've used both OEM and 3rd party party products in all
the printers I have available to me and I know that there are 3rd party
solutions that work just as well as the OEM, without killing the
machines.

However, I believe that 3rd party solutions are best used by those who
have the time and abilty to work with their equipment or who can find a
3rd party source thay can trust (referrals from a trusted friend who
can demonstrate their use is always good). I've made 3rd party
solutions into a business and know first hand that their are both well
made and p*** poor sources of 3rd party products out there.

That said, it does not mean that alternate sources can't be just as
good. A great deal of money is invested by 3rd party ink manufacturers
(some of whom act as the OEM co-manufacturer for companies such as HP,
Canon , Epson , Lexmark) in designing inks and toners which replicate
the characteristics of the formulations with patented characteristics
without violating patents. Keep in mind that a good 3rd party solution
may not be just the ink or toner alone, but usually include alternate
media, cartridges and/or processes which permit the 3rd party product
to work like the OEM. The level of involvement you wish to make in your
3rd party solution quite often determines how well it works for your
specific needs. OEM solutions presented by the printer maker are fast
and easy, but you pay the price, since these companies do invest a
great deal of money to make it fast and easy. So the price you pay is
for the technology which makes the printers as easy to use and maintain
as possible with the minimal amount of involvement on your end other
than to click and print.
Related resources
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 1:17:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com>
wrotenews:114pef3n8psai84@corp.supernews.com:

>
> "Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns962AB5F2C2A0Amapi@216.168.3.64...
>> The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads
>> me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places, and
>> they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that
>> they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales
>> of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al.
>>
>> The formula and the ink is pretty basic.
>
> Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives optimum
> lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image quality,
> optical density, color balance and other parameters while still
> maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just
> pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry
> and they typically own the intellectual property of given formulations.
> HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related patents.
>
> - Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>
>
>

Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will help
clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better milage....and
yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS Refinary depot every
morning from every station and refill their tanker trucks with the same
gas.

And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas milage by
using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner, which has water in
it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c a gallon too!

Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media consumption
market.

Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the diference
is in advertising, not physical properties.


--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 10:48:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Mapanari wrote:

>"Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com>
>wrotenews:114pef3n8psai84@corp.supernews.com:
>
>
>
>>"Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:Xns962AB5F2C2A0Amapi@216.168.3.64...
>>
>>
>>>The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads
>>>me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places, and
>>>they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that
>>>they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales
>>>of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al.
>>>
>>>The formula and the ink is pretty basic.
>>>
>>>
>>Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives optimum
>>lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image quality,
>>optical density, color balance and other parameters while still
>>maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just
>>pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry
>>and they typically own the intellectual property of given formulations.
>>HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related patents.
>>
>>- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will help
>clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better milage....and
>yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS Refinary depot every
>morning from every station and refill their tanker trucks with the same
>gas.
>
>And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas milage by
>using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner, which has water in
>it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c a gallon too!
>
>Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media consumption
>market.
>
>Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the diference
>is in advertising, not physical properties.
>
>

And that is why you hear of printhead clogs all over this NG. And the
majority of the users reporting these problems are not using OEM BRANDED
inks.

>
>
>
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 3:16:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Son" you really don't know what you are speaking of, about gasoline or
about inks. In my neck of the woods, people like you are referred to
(in polite circles) as "Sophomores" it's greek and it means "wise
foolish" because you think you know a great deal more than you do.

You are correct that gas is often refined at a centralized locale and
that the companies use each others refineries and trucking, because it
makes no sense at all to ship the gasoline hundreds of miles when their
is a much closer refinery or distribution point. However, what makes
gasoline unique and cost different amounts, other than some distilling
properties, is additives. And additives are just that, they are added
to the gasoline either in the tanker itself, at the refinery just as it
is pumped, or sometimes even at the gas station.

And it is these additives that often do make a difference in
performance. There are studies done by independent research facilities
that prove all gasoline is not the same. Some additives improve
combustion, or change flash point temperature, or reduce carbon build up.

Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the
required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders, but
that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least wear.
Just because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an engine runs
well and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas mileage doesn't
mean it doesn't do so.

And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had
taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink formulations,
and if you had any understanding of the complexities of the technologies
involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer you got a year's use
out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the marvel of a printer
capable of such precision costing so little.

I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving
things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here.

Art


Mapanari wrote:

> "Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com>
> wrotenews:114pef3n8psai84@corp.supernews.com:
>
>
>>"Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:Xns962AB5F2C2A0Amapi@216.168.3.64...
>>
>>>The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads
>>>me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places, and
>>>they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that
>>>they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales
>>>of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al.
>>>
>>>The formula and the ink is pretty basic.
>>
>>Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives optimum
>>lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image quality,
>>optical density, color balance and other parameters while still
>>maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just
>>pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry
>>and they typically own the intellectual property of given formulations.
>>HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related patents.
>>
>>- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will help
> clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better milage....and
> yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS Refinary depot every
> morning from every station and refill their tanker trucks with the same
> gas.
>
> And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas milage by
> using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner, which has water in
> it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c a gallon too!
>
> Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media consumption
> market.
>
> Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the diference
> is in advertising, not physical properties.
>
>
April 4, 2005 3:16:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <tm94e.150918$gJ3.139225@clgrps13>, artistic@telus.net says...
> Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the
> required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders, but
> that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least wear.
> Just because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an engine runs
> well and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas mileage doesn't
> mean it doesn't do so.
>
> And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had
> taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink formulations,
> and if you had any understanding of the complexities of the technologies
> involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer you got a year's use
> out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the marvel of a printer
> capable of such precision costing so little.
>
> I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving
> things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here.
>
> Art
>
>

I have used third party inks for years with Canon printers (going all the way
back to the BJC-600) and I have found that if you buy high quality ink, you
wonr have a problem.

As a matter of fact, the only Canon print head Ive had fail on me (so far)
never had anything other than OEM ink in it.

It was in one of my i950 printers. After about six months of daily use, it
simply wouldnt print Magenta any more.

I called Canon Tech. support and they put me through a few simple test (which
I had already done, and then some), and at the end of maybe 20 minutes, the
tech decided the head needed replacement.

All he required of me was a name, address, and serial number of the printer.

New head arrived within 3 days.

I dont shop for price when I buy ink, rather I stick with what I found early
on, and so far, it has worked well for me.

For my Canon printers (right now 2 I960, 1 ip4000, 1I950) I use ink from MIS,
and/or Formulabs. I do not buy generic carts prefilled, I buy OEM carts and
refill them and I buy empty carts from MIS.


I do NOT mix inkbrands. If a printer has MIS ink in it I simply put a piece
of masking tape on it (uaually under the lid) with a big letter M on it, and
a big letter F goes on the printer with Formulabs.

I do, from time to time change the ink from one brand to another in a given
printer, but ONLY after a good "flushing" with distilled water mixed with
about 10% household Ammonia.

Since January 1 2005 I have printed over 300 8x10" photos, and about 150
5x7" photos (going by the difference in paper invetory between then and now)
and other than a cleaning cycle right after changing carts, no other
maintenance has been required on the two printers used. (ip400, and my oldest
I960).

I do recommend however, if you are refilling Canon Cartridges, dont wait
'till the cartridge is EMPTY.. replace the cart when the indicator says LOW.
That way you never have a situation where the sponge dries out, and you dont
have to "prime" the sponge.

I keep about ten sets of carts, filled and ready, and when there are more
than three or four carts waiting to be filled, I do them all at once, giving
them about ten minutes to "equalize .(10 minutes is enough time for the
sponge to fill up if it was low). After the 10 minute wait, I top off any
carts that have dropped in level when the sponge filled up, then tape over
ALL openings on the carts, including the vents. Then I store them 'till I
need them.

REMEMBER THIS IF YOU REFILL:

Any place that sells bulk ink that says "this ink works in all unkjet
printers" is lying.

There is NO one ink that will work in more than one type of printer reliably.

Strange as it is, those inks seem to be formulated to work in Lexmark
printers. My friend buys generic refill ink at Sears (at least he did 'till
they stopped selling it) and it worked in his Lexmark 3 in one. But then we
are talking Lexmark, not a real printer.

--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 10:58:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> "Son" you really don't know what you are speaking of, about gasoline
> or about inks. In my neck of the woods, people like you are referred
> to (in polite circles) as "Sophomores" it's greek and it means "wise
> foolish" because you think you know a great deal more than you do.
>
> You are correct that gas is often refined at a centralized locale and
> that the companies use each others refineries and trucking, because it
> makes no sense at all to ship the gasoline hundreds of miles when
> their is a much closer refinery or distribution point. However, what
> makes gasoline unique and cost different amounts, other than some
> distilling properties, is additives. And additives are just that,
> they are added to the gasoline either in the tanker itself, at the
> refinery just as it is pumped, or sometimes even at the gas station.


Hooray! Perfectly said. >:o 

>
> And it is these additives that often do make a difference in
> performance. There are studies done by independent research
> facilities that prove all gasoline is not the same. Some additives
> improve combustion, or change flash point temperature, or reduce
> carbon build up.
>
> Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the
> required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders,
> but that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least
> wear. Just because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an
> engine runs well and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas
> mileage doesn't mean it doesn't do so.
>
> And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had
> taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink
> formulations, and if you had any understanding of the complexities of
> the technologies involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer
> you got a year's use out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the
> marvel of a printer capable of such precision costing so little.
>
> I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving
> things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here.


But I would like to give her a :-* .

>
> Art
>
>
> Mapanari wrote:
>
>> "Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com>
>> wrotenews:114pef3n8psai84@corp.supernews.com:
>>
>>> "Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns962AB5F2C2A0Amapi@216.168.3.64...
>>>
>>>> The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads
>>>> me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places,
>>>> and
>>>> they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that
>>>> they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales
>>>> of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al.
>>>>
>>>> The formula and the ink is pretty basic.
>>>
>>>
>>> Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives
>>> optimum lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image
>>> quality,
>>> optical density, color balance and other parameters while still
>>> maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just
>>> pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry
>>> and they typically own the intellectual property of given
>>> formulations. HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related patents.
>>>
>>> - Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will
>> help clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better
>> milage....and yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS
>> Refinary depot every morning from every station and refill their
>> tanker trucks with the same gas.
>>
>> And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas
>> milage by using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner,
>> which has water in it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c
>> a gallon too!
>>
>> Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media
>> consumption market.
>>
>> Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the
>> diference is in advertising, not physical properties.
>>
>>
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 11:13:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Larry wrote:

>In article <tm94e.150918$gJ3.139225@clgrps13>, artistic@telus.net says...
>
>
>>Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the
>>required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders, but
>> that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least wear.
>>Just because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an engine runs
>>well and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas mileage doesn't
>>mean it doesn't do so.
>>
>>And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had
>>taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink formulations,
>>and if you had any understanding of the complexities of the technologies
>>involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer you got a year's use
>>out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the marvel of a printer
>>capable of such precision costing so little.
>>
>>I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving
>>things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here.
>>
>>Art
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>I have used third party inks for years with Canon printers (going all the way
>back to the BJC-600) and I have found that if you buy high quality ink, you
>wonr have a problem.
>
>
Without real BRANDING by a real manufacturer/formulator; how do you tell
real quality?

>As a matter of fact, the only Canon print head Ive had fail on me (so far)
>never had anything other than OEM ink in it.
>
>It was in one of my i950 printers. After about six months of daily use, it
>simply wouldnt print Magenta any more.
>
>I called Canon Tech. support and they put me through a few simple test (which
>I had already done, and then some), and at the end of maybe 20 minutes, the
>tech decided the head needed replacement.
>
>All he required of me was a name, address, and serial number of the printer.
>
>New head arrived within 3 days.
>
>I dont shop for price when I buy ink, rather I stick with what I found early
>on, and so far, it has worked well for me.
>
>For my Canon printers (right now 2 I960, 1 ip4000, 1I950) I use ink from MIS,
>and/or Formulabs. I do not buy generic carts prefilled, I buy OEM carts and
>refill them and I buy empty carts from MIS.
>
>
>I do NOT mix inkbrands. If a printer has MIS ink in it I simply put a piece
>of masking tape on it (uaually under the lid) with a big letter M on it, and
>a big letter F goes on the printer with Formulabs.
>
>I do, from time to time change the ink from one brand to another in a given
>printer, but ONLY after a good "flushing" with distilled water mixed with
>about 10% household Ammonia.
>
>Since January 1 2005 I have printed over 300 8x10" photos, and about 150
>5x7" photos (going by the difference in paper invetory between then and now)
>and other than a cleaning cycle right after changing carts, no other
>maintenance has been required on the two printers used. (ip400, and my oldest
>I960).
>
>I do recommend however, if you are refilling Canon Cartridges, dont wait
>'till the cartridge is EMPTY.. replace the cart when the indicator says LOW.
>That way you never have a situation where the sponge dries out, and you dont
>have to "prime" the sponge.
>
>I keep about ten sets of carts, filled and ready, and when there are more
>than three or four carts waiting to be filled, I do them all at once, giving
>them about ten minutes to "equalize .(10 minutes is enough time for the
>sponge to fill up if it was low). After the 10 minute wait, I top off any
>carts that have dropped in level when the sponge filled up, then tape over
>ALL openings on the carts, including the vents. Then I store them 'till I
>need them.
>
>REMEMBER THIS IF YOU REFILL:
>
>Any place that sells bulk ink that says "this ink works in all unkjet
>printers" is lying.
>
>There is NO one ink that will work in more than one type of printer reliably.
>
>Strange as it is, those inks seem to be formulated to work in Lexmark
>printers. My friend buys generic refill ink at Sears (at least he did 'till
>they stopped selling it) and it worked in his Lexmark 3 in one. But then we
>are talking Lexmark, not a real printer.
>
>
>
April 4, 2005 11:13:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <blg4e.7934$FN4.6023@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
measekite@yahoo.com says...
> Without real BRANDING by a real manufacturer/formulator; how do you tell
> real quality?
>

Didn't you read the whole post???

I only use Three inks:

OEM
MIS
Formulabs

Thats it, thats all, out of the few dozen brands I've used over the years.

Those are the ones I rely on.

Im unclear as to whether MIS makes its own ink or not, but they do sell a
quality product.

They DO NOT SELL CHEAP "COMPATABLE" cartridges with MIS ink in them.

There is (or used to be) a warning onthe page where you order the cartridges
telling you that they are NOT filled with MIS ink.

AFAIK there are several places where you can purchase Formulabs ink, but to
get MIS ink you must deal with MIS.

They have other sites (or did have) but all of them are MIS Associates.
www.inksupply.com is the one I use for MIS inks..


--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 1:34:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I agree with most everything you say here. If a person is going to use
a 3rd party ink, try to buy for a reputable company with a good history,
go for the ink set that provides the features you need, don't buy
totally generic inks, they do need to be formulated for the printer
brand and sometimes model, don't mix and match in the same printer, etc.
Don't be surprised if you have to alter your profiles with some inks.

However, recognize than OEM inks often do have some special
characteristics, and one may be longevity of the print. Pigment inks,
and HPs PhotoSmart dye inks have good fade resistant characteristics.
And remember that paper is also important when it comes to image quality
and permanence.

Art

Larry wrote:

> In article <tm94e.150918$gJ3.139225@clgrps13>, artistic@telus.net says...
>
>>Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the
>>required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders, but
>> that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least wear.
>>Just because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an engine runs
>>well and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas mileage doesn't
>>mean it doesn't do so.
>>
>>And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had
>>taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink formulations,
>>and if you had any understanding of the complexities of the technologies
>>involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer you got a year's use
>>out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the marvel of a printer
>>capable of such precision costing so little.
>>
>>I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving
>>things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here.
>>
>>Art
>>
>>
>
>
> I have used third party inks for years with Canon printers (going all the way
> back to the BJC-600) and I have found that if you buy high quality ink, you
> wonr have a problem.
>
> As a matter of fact, the only Canon print head Ive had fail on me (so far)
> never had anything other than OEM ink in it.
>
> It was in one of my i950 printers. After about six months of daily use, it
> simply wouldnt print Magenta any more.
>
> I called Canon Tech. support and they put me through a few simple test (which
> I had already done, and then some), and at the end of maybe 20 minutes, the
> tech decided the head needed replacement.
>
> All he required of me was a name, address, and serial number of the printer.
>
> New head arrived within 3 days.
>
> I dont shop for price when I buy ink, rather I stick with what I found early
> on, and so far, it has worked well for me.
>
> For my Canon printers (right now 2 I960, 1 ip4000, 1I950) I use ink from MIS,
> and/or Formulabs. I do not buy generic carts prefilled, I buy OEM carts and
> refill them and I buy empty carts from MIS.
>
>
> I do NOT mix inkbrands. If a printer has MIS ink in it I simply put a piece
> of masking tape on it (uaually under the lid) with a big letter M on it, and
> a big letter F goes on the printer with Formulabs.
>
> I do, from time to time change the ink from one brand to another in a given
> printer, but ONLY after a good "flushing" with distilled water mixed with
> about 10% household Ammonia.
>
> Since January 1 2005 I have printed over 300 8x10" photos, and about 150
> 5x7" photos (going by the difference in paper invetory between then and now)
> and other than a cleaning cycle right after changing carts, no other
> maintenance has been required on the two printers used. (ip400, and my oldest
> I960).
>
> I do recommend however, if you are refilling Canon Cartridges, dont wait
> 'till the cartridge is EMPTY.. replace the cart when the indicator says LOW.
> That way you never have a situation where the sponge dries out, and you dont
> have to "prime" the sponge.
>
> I keep about ten sets of carts, filled and ready, and when there are more
> than three or four carts waiting to be filled, I do them all at once, giving
> them about ten minutes to "equalize .(10 minutes is enough time for the
> sponge to fill up if it was low). After the 10 minute wait, I top off any
> carts that have dropped in level when the sponge filled up, then tape over
> ALL openings on the carts, including the vents. Then I store them 'till I
> need them.
>
> REMEMBER THIS IF YOU REFILL:
>
> Any place that sells bulk ink that says "this ink works in all unkjet
> printers" is lying.
>
> There is NO one ink that will work in more than one type of printer reliably.
>
> Strange as it is, those inks seem to be formulated to work in Lexmark
> printers. My friend buys generic refill ink at Sears (at least he did 'till
> they stopped selling it) and it worked in his Lexmark 3 in one. But then we
> are talking Lexmark, not a real printer.
>
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 2:43:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

A few weeks back, I spent several hours reading up on ink bronzing.
This is when typically dye inks on glossy papers reflect what is often a
dichroic color off the surface of the ink after it dries. It can occur
with any color ink, but is often most noticeable on black ink, which
often is made up of several color dyes mixed together. It is more
noticeable on darker colors due to the contract between the dark
background and the brighter reflective color.

Anyway, HP has several research papers and patents on methods of
reducing or removing this problem. The science is somewhat complex, and
understanding the causes, measuring the phenomenon and developing
methods for developing ink and paper surface formulations to control for
it weren't simple.

This says to me that indeed "all inks" aren't the same at all, and the
processes involved are both time consuming and costly to develop.

Sure, pretty much any company that makes colorants can make something
approaching inkjet ink, but there are complexities to making good ink
that works well in a specific printer, a specific climate, has good fade
resistance to light, ozone, and other environmental factors, is accurate
and repeatable in color, doesn't fall to a great deal of metamerism,
bronzing, and so on.

Art


measekite wrote:

>
>
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> "Son" you really don't know what you are speaking of, about gasoline
>> or about inks. In my neck of the woods, people like you are referred
>> to (in polite circles) as "Sophomores" it's greek and it means "wise
>> foolish" because you think you know a great deal more than you do.
>>
>> You are correct that gas is often refined at a centralized locale and
>> that the companies use each others refineries and trucking, because it
>> makes no sense at all to ship the gasoline hundreds of miles when
>> their is a much closer refinery or distribution point. However, what
>> makes gasoline unique and cost different amounts, other than some
>> distilling properties, is additives. And additives are just that,
>> they are added to the gasoline either in the tanker itself, at the
>> refinery just as it is pumped, or sometimes even at the gas station.
>
>
>
> Hooray! Perfectly said. >:o 
>
>>
>> And it is these additives that often do make a difference in
>> performance. There are studies done by independent research
>> facilities that prove all gasoline is not the same. Some additives
>> improve combustion, or change flash point temperature, or reduce
>> carbon build up.
>>
>> Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the
>> required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders,
>> but that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least
>> wear. Just because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an
>> engine runs well and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas
>> mileage doesn't mean it doesn't do so.
>>
>> And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had
>> taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink
>> formulations, and if you had any understanding of the complexities of
>> the technologies involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer
>> you got a year's use out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the
>> marvel of a printer capable of such precision costing so little.
>>
>> I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving
>> things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here.
>
>
>
> But I would like to give her a :-* .
>
>>
>> Art
>>
>>
>> Mapanari wrote:
>>
>>> "Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com>
>>> wrotenews:114pef3n8psai84@corp.supernews.com:
>>>
>>>> "Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns962AB5F2C2A0Amapi@216.168.3.64...
>>>>
>>>>> The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads
>>>>> me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places,
>>>>> and
>>>>> they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that
>>>>> they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales
>>>>> of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al.
>>>>>
>>>>> The formula and the ink is pretty basic.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives
>>>> optimum lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image
>>>> quality,
>>>> optical density, color balance and other parameters while still
>>>> maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just
>>>> pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry
>>>> and they typically own the intellectual property of given
>>>> formulations. HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related patents.
>>>>
>>>> - Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will
>>> help clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better
>>> milage....and yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS
>>> Refinary depot every morning from every station and refill their
>>> tanker trucks with the same gas.
>>>
>>> And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas
>>> milage by using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner,
>>> which has water in it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c
>>> a gallon too!
>>>
>>> Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media
>>> consumption market.
>>>
>>> Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the
>>> diference is in advertising, not physical properties.
>>>
>>>
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 10:56:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:UYt4e.526$VF5.505@edtnps89...
>A few weeks back, I spent several hours reading up on ink bronzing. This is
>when typically dye inks on glossy papers reflect what is often a dichroic
>color off the surface of the ink after it dries. It can occur with any
>color ink, but is often most noticeable on black ink, which often is made
>up of several color dyes mixed together. It is more noticeable on darker
>colors due to the contract between the dark background and the brighter
>reflective color.
>
> Anyway, HP has several research papers and patents on methods of reducing
> or removing this problem. The science is somewhat complex, and
> understanding the causes, measuring the phenomenon and developing methods
> for developing ink and paper surface formulations to control for it
> weren't simple.
>
> This says to me that indeed "all inks" aren't the same at all, and the
> processes involved are both time consuming and costly to develop.
>
> Sure, pretty much any company that makes colorants can make something
> approaching inkjet ink, but there are complexities to making good ink that
> works well in a specific printer, a specific climate, has good fade
> resistance to light, ozone, and other environmental factors, is accurate
> and repeatable in color, doesn't fall to a great deal of metamerism,
> bronzing, and so on.
>
> Art
>
>
> measekite wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>>
>>> "Son" you really don't know what you are speaking of, about gasoline or
>>> about inks. In my neck of the woods, people like you are referred to
>>> (in polite circles) as "Sophomores" it's greek and it means "wise
>>> foolish" because you think you know a great deal more than you do.
>>>
>>> You are correct that gas is often refined at a centralized locale and
>>> that the companies use each others refineries and trucking, because it
>>> makes no sense at all to ship the gasoline hundreds of miles when their
>>> is a much closer refinery or distribution point. However, what makes
>>> gasoline unique and cost different amounts, other than some distilling
>>> properties, is additives. And additives are just that, they are added
>>> to the gasoline either in the tanker itself, at the refinery just as it
>>> is pumped, or sometimes even at the gas station.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hooray! Perfectly said. >:o 
>>
>>>
>>> And it is these additives that often do make a difference in
>>> performance. There are studies done by independent research facilities
>>> that prove all gasoline is not the same. Some additives improve
>>> combustion, or change flash point temperature, or reduce carbon build
>>> up.
>>>
>>> Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the
>>> required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders, but
>>> that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least wear. Just
>>> because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an engine runs well
>>> and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas mileage doesn't mean it
>>> doesn't do so.
>>>
>>> And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had
>>> taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink formulations,
>>> and if you had any understanding of the complexities of the technologies
>>> involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer you got a year's use
>>> out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the marvel of a printer
>>> capable of such precision costing so little.
>>>
>>> I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving
>>> things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here.
>>
>>
>>
>> But I would like to give her a :-* .
>>
>>>
>>> Art
>>>
>>>
>>> Mapanari wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com>
>>>> wrotenews:114pef3n8psai84@corp.supernews.com:
>>>>
>>>>> "Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Xns962AB5F2C2A0Amapi@216.168.3.64...
>>>>>
>>>>>> The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer,
>>>>>> leads
>>>>>> me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that
>>>>>> they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales
>>>>>> of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The formula and the ink is pretty basic.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives optimum
>>>>> lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image quality,
>>>>> optical density, color balance and other parameters while still
>>>>> maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just
>>>>> pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry
>>>>> and they typically own the intellectual property of given
>>>>> formulations. HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related
>>>>> patents.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will
>>>> help clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better
>>>> milage....and yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS
>>>> Refinary depot every morning from every station and refill their tanker
>>>> trucks with the same gas.
>>>>
>>>> And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas
>>>> milage by using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner, which
>>>> has water in it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c a
>>>> gallon too!
>>>>
>>>> Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media
>>>> consumption market.
>>>>
>>>> Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the
>>>> diference is in advertising, not physical properties.
>>>>
>>>>

As the Manager of Cartridge World (Oxford) UK. I can agree and accept what
is being said here. Cartridge World as a whole use one of the top research
and ink producers in the industry (OCP, Europe).
Like the oem producers, large amounts of money are spent in formulating the
ink we use for refilling and our own brand cartridges, to be as identical as
the oem product as possible. It is fair to say that due to trading standards
we are not allowed to say that our ink is the same as the original, however,
we can say that the technical make-up is no different to the original.
At the same time we can also say and guarantee (unconditionally), that the
end user will find no difference between them. We also guarantee the end
users printer against any problems caused by using our inks, How many other
suppliers are that confident!
Having used our ink both in refilling and prefills I have had no problems
with the various Canon printers I have owned. I can accept that some end
users have had problems that were caused by the ink they used, Generic ink
being the worse and certainly a no no!. It is also fair to say that problems
can be from other causes and should not be discounted.
At the end of the day end users will purchase what they feel comfortable
with, both in effect and cost.

regards
Dave
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 10:56:41 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Stick Stickus wrote:

>"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
>news:UYt4e.526$VF5.505@edtnps89...
>
>
>>A few weeks back, I spent several hours reading up on ink bronzing. This is
>>when typically dye inks on glossy papers reflect what is often a dichroic
>>color off the surface of the ink after it dries. It can occur with any
>>color ink, but is often most noticeable on black ink, which often is made
>>up of several color dyes mixed together. It is more noticeable on darker
>>colors due to the contract between the dark background and the brighter
>>reflective color.
>>
>>Anyway, HP has several research papers and patents on methods of reducing
>>or removing this problem. The science is somewhat complex, and
>>understanding the causes, measuring the phenomenon and developing methods
>>for developing ink and paper surface formulations to control for it
>>weren't simple.
>>
>>This says to me that indeed "all inks" aren't the same at all, and the
>>processes involved are both time consuming and costly to develop.
>>
>>Sure, pretty much any company that makes colorants can make something
>>approaching inkjet ink, but there are complexities to making good ink that
>>works well in a specific printer, a specific climate, has good fade
>>resistance to light, ozone, and other environmental factors, is accurate
>>and repeatable in color, doesn't fall to a great deal of metamerism,
>>bronzing, and so on.
>>
>>Art
>>
>>
>>measekite wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Arthur Entlich wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Son" you really don't know what you are speaking of, about gasoline or
>>>>about inks. In my neck of the woods, people like you are referred to
>>>>(in polite circles) as "Sophomores" it's greek and it means "wise
>>>>foolish" because you think you know a great deal more than you do.
>>>>
>>>>You are correct that gas is often refined at a centralized locale and
>>>>that the companies use each others refineries and trucking, because it
>>>>makes no sense at all to ship the gasoline hundreds of miles when their
>>>>is a much closer refinery or distribution point. However, what makes
>>>>gasoline unique and cost different amounts, other than some distilling
>>>>properties, is additives. And additives are just that, they are added
>>>>to the gasoline either in the tanker itself, at the refinery just as it
>>>>is pumped, or sometimes even at the gas station.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Hooray! Perfectly said. >:o 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>And it is these additives that often do make a difference in
>>>>performance. There are studies done by independent research facilities
>>>>that prove all gasoline is not the same. Some additives improve
>>>>combustion, or change flash point temperature, or reduce carbon build
>>>>up.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the
>>>>required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders, but
>>>>that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least wear. Just
>>>>because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an engine runs well
>>>>and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas mileage doesn't mean it
>>>>doesn't do so.
>>>>
>>>>And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had
>>>>taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink formulations,
>>>>and if you had any understanding of the complexities of the technologies
>>>>involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer you got a year's use
>>>>out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the marvel of a printer
>>>>capable of such precision costing so little.
>>>>
>>>>I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving
>>>>things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>But I would like to give her a :-* .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Art
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Mapanari wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com>
>>>>>wrotenews:114pef3n8psai84@corp.supernews.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:Xns962AB5F2C2A0Amapi@216.168.3.64...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer,
>>>>>>>leads
>>>>>>>me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places,
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat that
>>>>>>>they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their sales
>>>>>>>of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The formula and the ink is pretty basic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives optimum
>>>>>>lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image quality,
>>>>>>optical density, color balance and other parameters while still
>>>>>>maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just
>>>>>>pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry
>>>>>>and they typically own the intellectual property of given
>>>>>>formulations. HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related
>>>>>>patents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will
>>>>>help clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better
>>>>>milage....and yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS
>>>>>Refinary depot every morning from every station and refill their tanker
>>>>>trucks with the same gas.
>>>>>
>>>>>And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas
>>>>>milage by using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner, which
>>>>>has water in it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c a
>>>>>gallon too!
>>>>>
>>>>>Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media
>>>>>consumption market.
>>>>>
>>>>>Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the
>>>>>diference is in advertising, not physical properties.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>As the Manager of Cartridge World (Oxford) UK. I can agree and accept what
>is being said here. Cartridge World as a whole use one of the top research
>and ink producers in the industry (OCP, Europe).
>Like the oem producers, large amounts of money are spent in formulating the
>ink we use for refilling and our own brand cartridges, to be as identical as
>the oem product as possible. It is fair to say that due to trading standards
>we are not allowed to say that our ink is the same as the original, however,
>we can say that the technical make-up is no different to the original.
>At the same time we can also say and guarantee (unconditionally), that the
>end user will find no difference between them. We also guarantee the end
>users printer against any problems caused by using our inks, How many other
>suppliers are that confident!
>
>

So if we get a clogged printhead you will just send us a brand new printer?

Also, once is OK but if you repeatedly hawk your company on this NG that
it is considered spamming.

>Having used our ink both in refilling and prefills I have had no problems
>with the various Canon printers I have owned. I can accept that some end
>users have had problems that were caused by the ink they used, Generic ink
>being the worse and certainly a no no!. It is also fair to say that problems
>can be from other causes and should not be discounted.
>At the end of the day end users will purchase what they feel comfortable
>with, both in effect and cost.
>
>regards
>Dave
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 4:11:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:p 7L4e.2488$qD2.2305@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Stick Stickus wrote:
>
>>"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
>>news:UYt4e.526$VF5.505@edtnps89...
>>
>>>A few weeks back, I spent several hours reading up on ink bronzing. This
>>>is when typically dye inks on glossy papers reflect what is often a
>>>dichroic color off the surface of the ink after it dries. It can occur
>>>with any color ink, but is often most noticeable on black ink, which
>>>often is made up of several color dyes mixed together. It is more
>>>noticeable on darker colors due to the contract between the dark
>>>background and the brighter reflective color.
>>>
>>>Anyway, HP has several research papers and patents on methods of reducing
>>>or removing this problem. The science is somewhat complex, and
>>>understanding the causes, measuring the phenomenon and developing methods
>>>for developing ink and paper surface formulations to control for it
>>>weren't simple.
>>>
>>>This says to me that indeed "all inks" aren't the same at all, and the
>>>processes involved are both time consuming and costly to develop.
>>>
>>>Sure, pretty much any company that makes colorants can make something
>>>approaching inkjet ink, but there are complexities to making good ink
>>>that works well in a specific printer, a specific climate, has good fade
>>>resistance to light, ozone, and other environmental factors, is accurate
>>>and repeatable in color, doesn't fall to a great deal of metamerism,
>>>bronzing, and so on.
>>>
>>>Art
>>>
>>>
>>>measekite wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Arthur Entlich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Son" you really don't know what you are speaking of, about gasoline or
>>>>>about inks. In my neck of the woods, people like you are referred to
>>>>>(in polite circles) as "Sophomores" it's greek and it means "wise
>>>>>foolish" because you think you know a great deal more than you do.
>>>>>
>>>>>You are correct that gas is often refined at a centralized locale and
>>>>>that the companies use each others refineries and trucking, because it
>>>>>makes no sense at all to ship the gasoline hundreds of miles when their
>>>>>is a much closer refinery or distribution point. However, what makes
>>>>>gasoline unique and cost different amounts, other than some distilling
>>>>>properties, is additives. And additives are just that, they are added
>>>>>to the gasoline either in the tanker itself, at the refinery just as it
>>>>>is pumped, or sometimes even at the gas station.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hooray! Perfectly said. >:o 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>And it is these additives that often do make a difference in
>>>>>performance. There are studies done by independent research facilities
>>>>>that prove all gasoline is not the same. Some additives improve
>>>>>combustion, or change flash point temperature, or reduce carbon build
>>>>>up.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, cars will run on pretty much any gasoline that comes close to the
>>>>>required octane rating for the compression ration of the cylinders, but
>>>>>that does not mean it will run efficiently and with the least wear.
>>>>>Just because you may be too oblivious to recognize when an engine runs
>>>>>well and when it doesn't, or if it gets superior gas mileage doesn't
>>>>>mean it doesn't do so.
>>>>>
>>>>>And, to a certain extent, the same holds for inks. If you, as I, had
>>>>>taken the time to read the patents surrounding inkjet ink formulations,
>>>>>and if you had any understanding of the complexities of the
>>>>>technologies involved, instead of b*tching about the $29 printer you
>>>>>got a year's use out of, you'd be absolutely fascinated by the marvel
>>>>>of a printer capable of such precision costing so little.
>>>>>
>>>>>I use 3rd party inks, and I voted against everything I could involving
>>>>>things Carly F. did at HP, but you are way off here.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>But I would like to give her a :-* .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Art
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Mapanari wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com>
>>>>>>wrotenews:114pef3n8psai84@corp.supernews.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:Xns962AB5F2C2A0Amapi@216.168.3.64...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer,
>>>>>>>>leads
>>>>>>>>me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places,
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat
>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their
>>>>>>>>sales
>>>>>>>>of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The formula and the ink is pretty basic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives
>>>>>>>optimum lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image
>>>>>>>quality,
>>>>>>>optical density, color balance and other parameters while still
>>>>>>>maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just
>>>>>>>pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink
>>>>>>>chemistry
>>>>>>>and they typically own the intellectual property of given
>>>>>>>formulations. HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related
>>>>>>>patents.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will
>>>>>>help clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better
>>>>>>milage....and yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS
>>>>>>Refinary depot every morning from every station and refill their
>>>>>>tanker trucks with the same gas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas
>>>>>>milage by using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner,
>>>>>>which has water in it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c
>>>>>>a gallon too!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media
>>>>>>consumption market.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the
>>>>>>diference is in advertising, not physical properties.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>As the Manager of Cartridge World (Oxford) UK. I can agree and accept what
>>is being said here. Cartridge World as a whole use one of the top research
>>and ink producers in the industry (OCP, Europe).
>>Like the oem producers, large amounts of money are spent in formulating
>>the ink we use for refilling and our own brand cartridges, to be as
>>identical as the oem product as possible. It is fair to say that due to
>>trading standards we are not allowed to say that our ink is the same as
>>the original, however, we can say that the technical make-up is no
>>different to the original.
>>At the same time we can also say and guarantee (unconditionally), that the
>>end user will find no difference between them. We also guarantee the end
>>users printer against any problems caused by using our inks, How many
>>other suppliers are that confident!
>>
>
> So if we get a clogged printhead you will just send us a brand new
> printer?

Please check the website for your reply, But basically, if proven to be
either the refilled cartridge or compatible at fault then, yes.

>
> Also, once is OK but if you repeatedly hawk your company on this NG that
> it is considered spamming.
>

It is not my intention to 'hawk' the company nor spam, but, rather show a
response from a producer and, also, an end user perspective.

>>Having used our ink both in refilling and prefills I have had no problems
>>with the various Canon printers I have owned. I can accept that some end
>>users have had problems that were caused by the ink they used, Generic ink
>>being the worse and certainly a no no!. It is also fair to say that
>>problems can be from other causes and should not be discounted.
>>At the end of the day end users will purchase what they feel comfortable
>>with, both in effect and cost.
>>
>>regards
>>Dave
>>
>>
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 6:39:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite <measekite@yahoo.com>
wrotenews:ur54e.7826$FN4.7550@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com:

>
>
> Mapanari wrote:
>
>>"Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com>
>>wrotenews:114pef3n8psai84@corp.supernews.com:
>>
>>
>>
>>>"Mapanari" <whosthat@anonmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:Xns962AB5F2C2A0Amapi@216.168.3.64...
>>>
>>>
>>>>The research I've done, and as a former purchasing manger/buyer, leads
>>>>me to believe that almost all OEM ink comes from only a few places,
>>>>and they sell the same bulk ink to online resellers; with the caveat
>>>>that they can't say "Same as HP ink!" because that would screw their
>>>>sales of bulk ink to HP and Canon et al.
>>>>
>>>>The formula and the ink is pretty basic.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Your research is faulty. Making an ink formulation that gives optimum
>>>lightfastness, black to color bleed, print quality, image quality,
>>>optical density, color balance and other parameters while still
>>>maintaining nozzle health is not something printer manufacturers just
>>>pick off the shelf. Printer companies invest heavily in ink chemistry
>>>and they typically own the intellectual property of given formulations.
>>>HP, Epson and Cannon have hundred of ink related patents.
>>>
>>>- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Right...and Exxon gas will put a tiger in your tank and BP gas will help
>>clean your valves and Texaco gas will give you better milage....and
>>yet....all the tanker trucks stop off at the same HESS Refinary depot
>>every morning from every station and refill their tanker trucks with the
>>same gas.
>>
>>And yet, millions of mooing morons will swear they get better gas milage
>>by using Exxon instead of that "no name gas on the corner, which has
>>water in it it and is cheap bad gas!", and pay an extra 30c a gallon
>>too!
>>
>>Son, you really are a child of the 80's advertising mass media
>>consumption market.
>>
>>Granted, there is a slight diference in some inks, but 90% of the
>>diference is in advertising, not physical properties.
>>
>>
>
> And that is why you hear of printhead clogs all over this NG. And the
> majority of the users reporting these problems are not using OEM BRANDED
> inks.
>
>>
>>
>>
>

The majority of printhead clogs, from EPSON AND HP and CANON, is due to
leaving the ink carts out too long to dry.

They warn you about this all over the place, they all do, and yet, most
people complaining about printers complain about printhead clogs.

Go figure.

In simple terms, it's not the ink, it's the user.

--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 6:42:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Larry <lastingimagery@comcast.dotnet>
wrotenews:MPG.1cbb62dc8bfc9c1598996d@news.comcast.giganews.com:

> In article <blg4e.7934$FN4.6023@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
> measekite@yahoo.com says...
>> Without real BRANDING by a real manufacturer/formulator; how do you
>> tell real quality?
>>
>
> Didn't you read the whole post???
>

Obviously he didn't, but felt the need to put it all in his one line
response.



--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 6:46:55 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrotenews:I7g4e.1387$qD2.156
@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:

>
>
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> "Son" you really don't know what you are speaking of, about gasoline
>> or about inks. In my neck of the woods, people like you are referred
>> to (in polite circles) as "Sophomores" it's greek and it means "wise
>> foolish" because you think you know a great deal more than you do.
>>
>> You are correct that gas is often refined at a centralized locale and
>> that the companies use each others refineries and trucking, because it
>> makes no sense at all to ship the gasoline hundreds of miles when
>> their is a much closer refinery or distribution point. However, what
>> makes gasoline unique and cost different amounts, other than some
>> distilling properties, is additives. And additives are just that,
>> they are added to the gasoline either in the tanker itself, at the
>> refinery just as it is pumped, or sometimes even at the gas station.
>
>
> Hooray! Perfectly said. >:o 

Not really. Yawl obviusly know nothing about the gas and distribution
industy since the 90's.

It was true at one time that Texaco tankers delivered Texaco gas, then it
was true that they centralized for cost all gas and then added this and
that, but now, it's all the same gas and all the same additives; more cost
effective and why, if you listen and watch closely the ads for Shell and
other gases, they won't claim exclusivity nor will you be able to nail
anything down in the ad that states catagorically that ONLY with Shell gas,
for example, after filling your tank with special blended Shell gas, and
while you're tootling down the highway can you hear the agonized mewing
screams coming from the back of your car as Tony slowly suffocates an
agonizing death and faint sound of claw scratching coming from your trunk
that slowly disappears and then everything become silent.



--
---Mapanari---
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 8:37:16 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Mapanari wrote:

> <snip>
>
>>>
>>>
>>And that is why you hear of printhead clogs all over this NG. And the
>>majority of the users reporting these problems are not using OEM BRANDED
>>inks.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>The majority of printhead clogs, from EPSON AND HP and CANON, is due to
>leaving the ink carts out too long to dry.
>
>

I left my HP990 unused for 3 months. I then pick up printing with it
without a problem.

>They warn you about this all over the place, they all do, and yet, most
>people complaining about printers complain about printhead clogs.
>
>Go figure.
>
>In simple terms, it's not the ink, it's the user.
>
>
>
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 5:29:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite <measekite@yahoo.com> wrotenews:0m17e.1112$J12.489
@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:


>>The majority of printhead clogs, from EPSON AND HP and CANON, is due to
>>leaving the ink carts out too long to dry.
>>
>>
>
> I left my HP990 unused for 3 months. I then pick up printing with it
> without a problem.
>

Please re-read my sentence above, think about it for a while, then get back
to me.

--
---Mapanari---
!