Hi-resolution mesh

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I have downloaded the FSGenesis' 10- and 19 meters meshes for the Grand
Canyon. However I dont' have the impression that the display is different to
the 38m mesh I downloaded some time earlier. I remember that some time ago
one of the scenery gurus explained some tweaking of LOD settings in a
specific (FS9.CFG ?) file to get the proper effect on high resolution
meshes. Any hints? And am I right that 10m meshes cannot be used on FS9?
Thanks
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...

 

[Bob]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Oskar Wagner wrote:

> I have downloaded the FSGenesis' 10- and 19 meters meshes for the Grand
> Canyon. However I dont' have the impression that the display is different to
> the 38m mesh I downloaded some time earlier. I remember that some time ago
> one of the scenery gurus explained some tweaking of LOD settings in a
> specific (FS9.CFG ?) file to get the proper effect on high resolution
> meshes. Any hints? And am I right that 10m meshes cannot be used on FS9?
> Thanks

I believe it was to set the max_vertex in the fs9.cfg to 20 or 21

[TERRAIN]
TERRAIN_ERROR_FACTOR=83.000000
TERRAIN_MIN_DEM_AREA=10.000000
TERRAIN_MAX_DEM_AREA=100.000000
TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=21

--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

 

[GREGORY]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 02:18:34 +0200, "Oskar Wagner"
<rengaw@swissonline.ch> brought the following to our attention:

>I have downloaded the FSGenesis' 10- and 19 meters meshes for the Grand
>Canyon. However I dont' have the impression that the display is different to
>the 38m mesh I downloaded some time earlier. I remember that some time ago
>one of the scenery gurus explained some tweaking of LOD settings in a
>specific (FS9.CFG ?) file to get the proper effect on high resolution
>meshes. Any hints?

It might be helpful to add the following lines in the CFG file:

[TERRAIN]
TERRAIN_TEXTURE_SIZE_EXP=8
//8 = 256x256
//7 = 128x128
//6 = 64x64

TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=21
//18 = 150m DEM
//19 = 75m DEM
//20 = 37m DEM
//21 = 19m DEM

>And am I right that 10m meshes cannot be used on FS9?
>Thanks

did the `update' fix the mesh res issue?


-G

 

[crash]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Oskar Wagner wrote:
> I have downloaded the FSGenesis' 10- and 19 meters meshes for the
> Grand Canyon. However I dont' have the impression that the display is
> different to the 38m mesh I downloaded some time earlier. I remember
> that some time ago one of the scenery gurus explained some tweaking
> of LOD settings in a specific (FS9.CFG ?) file to get the proper
> effect on high resolution meshes. Any hints? And am I right that 10m
> meshes cannot be used on FS9? Thanks

TERRAIN_MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL=21 (default is 19)

I think 10m is still not possible, but this allows down to 19.1m - or
something like that....
I have some add on AK mesh/scenery (not FSG) that the 21 setting gives some
"waffle" effect in certain areas, but that's the only time I've noticed
anything negative - in the Grand Canyon it gives that extra little detail
you'll love!!!

Cheers'n Beers... [_])
Don

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:

> And am I right that 10m meshes cannot be used on FS9?

You can certainly install them but the sim will ignore them.

--
Peter













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[GREGORY]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 18:54:02 -0600, "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com>
brought the following to our attention:

>Oskar Wagner wrote:
>> I have downloaded the FSGenesis' 10- and 19 meters meshes for the
>> Grand Canyon. However I dont' have the impression that the display is
>> different to the 38m mesh I downloaded some time earlier. I remember
>> that some time ago one of the scenery gurus explained some tweaking
>> of LOD settings in a specific (FS9.CFG ?) file to get the proper
>> effect on high resolution meshes. Any hints? And am I right that 10m
>> meshes cannot be used on FS9? Thanks

>
>I think 10m is still not possible, but this allows down to 19.1m - or
>something like that....
>
>I have some add on AK mesh/scenery (not FSG) that the 21 setting gives
>some "waffle" effect in certain areas, but that's the only time I've noticed
>anything negative - in the Grand Canyon it gives that extra little detail
>you'll love!!!
>

well.. is there ever an extensive collection of screen shots here!!


the effect that Don describes is some form of interference or grating
pattern in the sampling process.. here's what a South American mesh
looks like with the `hatching'...

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/flightsim/hatch.jpg (81k)


If anyone has notice whole regional areas of detail are missing from
the South American SRTM.. like in Peru or south of La Paz... that's
because it appears data is missing in the source SRTM plan views..
not because the author botched it. Any comments on S.A. SRTM?

-G

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

In article <1ra4618i3j38o.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net>,
nope@nospam.com says...
> Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
>
> > And am I right that 10m meshes cannot be used on FS9?
>
> You can certainly install them but the sim will ignore them.

I believe it would be more correct to say that they will be used, but at
the resolution specified by MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL, which in FS 9.1 has a
maximum value of 21 (19 meters). I have Hawaii @ 9.6m which runs fine.

Various problems have been reported with level 21, so a lot of simers
use 20 most of the time. The ability to specify 21 was added in the 9.1
patch, at which time MS had stopped active development of FS9, so it's
not clear how well it was tested.

The best source I've found of both mesh (the underlying wire-frame of
land elevations), and land class (the default textures that get draped
over the mesh frame) is
http://portal.fsgensis.net/

The data that everyone starts with is mostly public domain, usually from
the same source. However, all of the main datasets have glitches
(errors). The space shuttle data, for example, has significant errors
in NYC and Chicago, and around Tibet. It also doesn't cover north of
65N, which includes northern Canada and Alaska. The care with which the
public data is reprocessed to be combined into a product is what
controls the final quality. FSgensis is one of the more careful
providers, and if one reports problems, they tend to review the area in
question and generate a patch.

Other scenery I've had good luck with is MegaScenery / MegaCity,
FlyTampa (San Francisco and San Diego), and USA Roads, all of which play
well together with FSgenesis.

/Chris

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Chris Thomas <CThomas@mminternet.com> wrote:

> I believe it would be more correct to say that they will be used, but at
> the resolution specified by MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL, which in FS 9.1 has a
> maximum value of 21 (19 meters).

According to my recollection of the many threads about this on the
FSGenesis forum, the sim ignores data files with resolution of 9.6m.

> I have Hawaii @ 9.6m which runs fine.

Are you absolutely positive the Hawaii terrain mesh in FS2004 is being
rendered from this particular mesh file, albeit at a lower resolution of
19m? Or is it more likely the sim disregards this file and falls back to
one of your separate "lower" resolution files you have installed for that
area (presumably you have all of FSGenesis' mesh for the US installed?).



--
Peter













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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Thank you Bob, Gregory, Don and Peter for the prompt answers. I owe you
one..... ;-)
Now that I see that the 19m mesh is obviously working I notice that Colorado
River is flowing on kind of a pedestal almost all along its course to Lake
Mead. Didn't know that before. It was always my opinion that water will flow
at the lowest point of a valley... ;-)) To be earnest: Is there a landclass
file for that region which corrects for the obvioulsy wrong riverbed
elevation?
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:

> Thank you Bob, Gregory, Don and Peter for the prompt answers. I owe you
> one..... ;-)
> Now that I see that the 19m mesh is obviously working I notice that Colorado
> River is flowing on kind of a pedestal almost all along its course to Lake
> Mead. Didn't know that before. It was always my opinion that water will flow
> at the lowest point of a valley... ;-)) To be earnest: Is there a landclass
> file for that region which corrects for the obvioulsy wrong riverbed
> elevation?

No, there is no landclass file that addresses this because the water
(lakes, rivers, and oceans) does not come from landclass per se; the water
and shoreline placement and elevations come from a different scenery file.

Unfortunately, one of the minor hassles we users expereince when
introducing high resolution, highly accurate terrain mesh is that this mesh
exposes the very low resolution, inaccurate default water and shorelines
placed there by the sim's default scenery file.

You have three options: 1) remove the high resolution mesh and live with
what MS gives you for both mesh and water, 2) Leave the mesh and live with
the inaccurate default water, or 3) See if there is a scenery replacement
file that replaces the default Colorado River with a more accurate
representation of it.

I am not aware of a replacement at present, but then again, I haven't
looked.

In the sim's representation of my state (New York), I was so fed up with
the inaccurate, default lakes and rivers that I learned how to create this
type of scenery and did so for the entire state. The end result was much
nicer and fit very well with high resolution mesh.

http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004scen&DLID=59288

Coincidentally I was actually looking to tackle the Colorado River as my
next project, but work is currently getting in the way and I haven't got
past the preliminary design state.




--
Peter













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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"pr" <nope@nospam.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:x4kwn36m6otl$.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Bob, Gregory, Don and Peter for the prompt answers. I owe you
>> one..... ;-)
>> Now that I see that the 19m mesh is obviously working I notice that
>> Colorado
>> River is flowing on kind of a pedestal almost all along its course to
>> Lake
>> Mead. Didn't know that before. It was always my opinion that water will
>> flow
>> at the lowest point of a valley... ;-)) To be earnest: Is there a
>> landclass
>> file for that region which corrects for the obvioulsy wrong riverbed
>> elevation?
>
> No, there is no landclass file that addresses this because the water
> (lakes, rivers, and oceans) does not come from landclass per se; the water
> and shoreline placement and elevations come from a different scenery file.
>
> Unfortunately, one of the minor hassles we users expereince when
> introducing high resolution, highly accurate terrain mesh is that this
> mesh
> exposes the very low resolution, inaccurate default water and shorelines
> placed there by the sim's default scenery file.
>
> You have three options: 1) remove the high resolution mesh and live with
> what MS gives you for both mesh and water, 2) Leave the mesh and live with
> the inaccurate default water, or 3) See if there is a scenery replacement
> file that replaces the default Colorado River with a more accurate
> representation of it.
>
> I am not aware of a replacement at present, but then again, I haven't
> looked.
>
> In the sim's representation of my state (New York), I was so fed up with
> the inaccurate, default lakes and rivers that I learned how to create this
> type of scenery and did so for the entire state. The end result was much
> nicer and fit very well with high resolution mesh.
>
> http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004scen&DLID=59288
>
> Coincidentally I was actually looking to tackle the Colorado River as my
> next project, but work is currently getting in the way and I haven't got
> past the preliminary design state.
> --
> Peter
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

Peter, you made my day! Not exactly on the Colorado river issue but on
another hassle that I want to fight. I'm presently using the Lago terramesh
for my home country Switzerland and a quite nice landclass file which needs
to be enhanced in the future but represents a nice approach to reality
(rather than photorealistic bitmaps - I hate those as they are unuseable for
low flying and just use up all available CPU power...).

Now of course also here in Switzerland default scenery all the lakes are not
really accurately placed and therefore produce lots of steep cliffs where no
cliffs should be; mostly on the northern side which indicates that all lakes
should need a shift to the south.

Now you woke my interest in the subject of doing some trials (and errors of
course..;-) ) in creating own scenery files for our main lakes and rivers.
Can you give me a brief summary of the software you use, whether there are
some good tutorials etc. I haven't worked too much with scenery yet but I
feel intelligent enough (maybe I'm wrong on that.....) to learn something
new as there's one thing that I really have, and that's TIME to do it......
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:

> Now you woke my interest in the subject of doing some trials (and errors of
> course..;-) ) in creating own scenery files for our main lakes and rivers.
> Can you give me a brief summary of the software you use, whether there are
> some good tutorials etc. I haven't worked too much with scenery yet but I
> feel intelligent enough (maybe I'm wrong on that.....) to learn something
> new as there's one thing that I really have, and that's TIME to do it......

If you have the time and you certainly have the intelligence, then in a
nutshell, the procedure is as follows:

1) Download satellite imagery of the area I want to create from a website.

2) Use a free tool to convert the satellite image into the proper
geographic format that the FS2004 world uses.

3) Use Jasc's Paint Shop Pro to reduce the colors of this newly converted
image into a two-color image: Grey for land and black for water.

4) Download elevation data for the lat/lon area covered by the satellite
image from another website.

5) Create a text input file that references the two-color image and the
elevation data file, then run the scenery generation tool that uses this
input file, the "water map" and the elevation data to produce BGL files
containing shoreline and water scenery.

6) Remove the default HP*.BGL and HL*.BGL scenery files for the area in
question, then place these new BGL files into the ADDON SCENERY folder.

7) Fly and enjoy.

The scenery generation tool I use is a free utility called Slartibartfast,
which is a tool that allows you to create the shoreline and water scenery
files for larger areas at a time. There is a moderate learning curve
involved, but in the end the time you invest in learning the utility will
pay back immensely in time you save generating scenery files.

http://www.jimkeir.co.uk/FlightSim/AutoGen/

The readme file included in this utility will give you the other links you
need (such as sites that offer satellite images and those that offer
downloadable elevation data).

The author also includes a tutorial in the readme that you can follow to
get the feel for what you need to produce your own.

And finally, the utility author hangs out in FSGenesis' scenery design
forum. If you do get into this, I recommend getting a free account and
posting your questions there in order to get a personal response from the
author and others who are adept at Slarti.

The sad truth is that the US is much more free flowing with geographic data
than other countries, so finding free, web-based satellite imagery and
elevation data might be a challenge for you depending on the country whose
water you want to improve. The utility author, being of UK origin, does
include links to websites that offer some this data for other countries.

Good luck.

--
Peter













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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"pr" <nope@nospam.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:1qj55cafv55hq.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
>
>> Now you woke my interest in the subject of doing some trials (and errors
>> of
>> course..;-) ) in creating own scenery files for our main lakes and
>> rivers.
>> Can you give me a brief summary of the software you use, whether there
>> are
>> some good tutorials etc. I haven't worked too much with scenery yet but I
>> feel intelligent enough (maybe I'm wrong on that.....) to learn something
>> new as there's one thing that I really have, and that's TIME to do
>> it......
>
> If you have the time and you certainly have the intelligence, then in a
> nutshell, the procedure is as follows:
>
> 1) Download satellite imagery of the area I want to create from a website.
>
> 2) Use a free tool to convert the satellite image into the proper
> geographic format that the FS2004 world uses.
>
> 3) Use Jasc's Paint Shop Pro to reduce the colors of this newly converted
> image into a two-color image: Grey for land and black for water.
>
> 4) Download elevation data for the lat/lon area covered by the satellite
> image from another website.
>
> 5) Create a text input file that references the two-color image and the
> elevation data file, then run the scenery generation tool that uses this
> input file, the "water map" and the elevation data to produce BGL files
> containing shoreline and water scenery.
>
> 6) Remove the default HP*.BGL and HL*.BGL scenery files for the area in
> question, then place these new BGL files into the ADDON SCENERY folder.
>
> 7) Fly and enjoy.
>
> The scenery generation tool I use is a free utility called Slartibartfast,
> which is a tool that allows you to create the shoreline and water scenery
> files for larger areas at a time. There is a moderate learning curve
> involved, but in the end the time you invest in learning the utility will
> pay back immensely in time you save generating scenery files.
>
> http://www.jimkeir.co.uk/FlightSim/AutoGen/
>
> The readme file included in this utility will give you the other links you
> need (such as sites that offer satellite images and those that offer
> downloadable elevation data).
>
> The author also includes a tutorial in the readme that you can follow to
> get the feel for what you need to produce your own.
>
> And finally, the utility author hangs out in FSGenesis' scenery design
> forum. If you do get into this, I recommend getting a free account and
> posting your questions there in order to get a personal response from the
> author and others who are adept at Slarti.
>
> The sad truth is that the US is much more free flowing with geographic
> data
> than other countries, so finding free, web-based satellite imagery and
> elevation data might be a challenge for you depending on the country whose
> water you want to improve. The utility author, being of UK origin, does
> include links to websites that offer some this data for other countries.
>
> Good luck.
>
> --
> Peter
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

Ups, soo easy.....ROFL!!
Thank you Peter, I will definitely give it a try. However I'm very curious
about the outcome...... ;-) But I'm sure it WILL take some time.......
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Chris Thomas" <CThomas@mminternet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:MPG.1cb1179b1d99c64f989681@news.mminternet.com...
> In article <1ra4618i3j38o.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net>,
> nope@nospam.com says...
>> Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
>>
>> > And am I right that 10m meshes cannot be used on FS9?
>>
>> You can certainly install them but the sim will ignore them.
>
> I believe it would be more correct to say that they will be used, but at
> the resolution specified by MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL, which in FS 9.1 has a
> maximum value of 21 (19 meters). I have Hawaii @ 9.6m which runs fine.
>
> Various problems have been reported with level 21, so a lot of simers
> use 20 most of the time. The ability to specify 21 was added in the 9.1
> patch, at which time MS had stopped active development of FS9, so it's
> not clear how well it was tested.
>
> The best source I've found of both mesh (the underlying wire-frame of
> land elevations), and land class (the default textures that get draped
> over the mesh frame) is
> http://portal.fsgensis.net/
>
> The data that everyone starts with is mostly public domain, usually from
> the same source. However, all of the main datasets have glitches
> (errors). The space shuttle data, for example, has significant errors
> in NYC and Chicago, and around Tibet. It also doesn't cover north of
> 65N, which includes northern Canada and Alaska. The care with which the
> public data is reprocessed to be combined into a product is what
> controls the final quality. FSgensis is one of the more careful
> providers, and if one reports problems, they tend to review the area in
> question and generate a patch.
>
> Other scenery I've had good luck with is MegaScenery / MegaCity,
> FlyTampa (San Francisco and San Diego), and USA Roads, all of which play
> well together with FSgenesis.
>
> /Chris

Thank you Chris. That confirms my observation that there was no difference
between 19m and 10m mesh. (with MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL set at 21).
I downloaded the whole SRTM data and saved it on 2 DVD's. I tested some
randomly selected areas but I need more to compare. Until now it doesn't
impress me too much...... ;-) except for the huge amount of freely available
data!
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...

 

[crash]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Oskar Wagner wrote:
> curious about the outcome...... ;-) But I'm sure it WILL take some
> time.......

Geezzz, I got lost right after "download........."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Peter,

LOD12 (9.6m) isn't ignored, but it will only resolve to 19.2m (with TMVL=21)
with the current iteration of the terrain engine.

Justin

"pr" <nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:17mjby23uafh3.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Chris Thomas <CThomas@mminternet.com> wrote:
>
>> I believe it would be more correct to say that they will be used, but at
>> the resolution specified by MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL, which in FS 9.1 has a
>> maximum value of 21 (19 meters).
>
> According to my recollection of the many threads about this on the
> FSGenesis forum, the sim ignores data files with resolution of 9.6m.
>
>> I have Hawaii @ 9.6m which runs fine.
>
> Are you absolutely positive the Hawaii terrain mesh in FS2004 is being
> rendered from this particular mesh file, albeit at a lower resolution of
> 19m? Or is it more likely the sim disregards this file and falls back to
> one of your separate "lower" resolution files you have installed for that
> area (presumably you have all of FSGenesis' mesh for the US installed?).
>
>
>
> --
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
> Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
> =----

 

[Tim]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

pr wrote:
> Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
>
>> Thank you Bob, Gregory, Don and Peter for the prompt answers. I owe
>> you one..... ;-)
>> Now that I see that the 19m mesh is obviously working I notice that
>> Colorado River is flowing on kind of a pedestal almost all along its
>> course to Lake Mead. Didn't know that before. It was always my
>> opinion that water will flow at the lowest point of a valley... ;-))
>> To be earnest: Is there a landclass file for that region which
>> corrects for the obvioulsy wrong riverbed elevation?
>
> No, there is no landclass file that addresses this because the water
> (lakes, rivers, and oceans) does not come from landclass per se; the
> water and shoreline placement and elevations come from a different
> scenery file.
>
> Unfortunately, one of the minor hassles we users expereince when
> introducing high resolution, highly accurate terrain mesh is that
> this mesh exposes the very low resolution, inaccurate default water
> and shorelines placed there by the sim's default scenery file.
>
> You have three options: 1) remove the high resolution mesh and live
> with what MS gives you for both mesh and water, 2) Leave the mesh and
> live with the inaccurate default water, or 3) See if there is a
> scenery replacement file that replaces the default Colorado River
> with a more accurate representation of it.
>
> I am not aware of a replacement at present, but then again, I haven't
> looked.
>
> In the sim's representation of my state (New York), I was so fed up
> with the inaccurate, default lakes and rivers that I learned how to
> create this type of scenery and did so for the entire state. The end
> result was much nicer and fit very well with high resolution mesh.
>
> http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID=fs2004scen&DLID=59288
>
> Coincidentally I was actually looking to tackle the Colorado River as
> my next project, but work is currently getting in the way and I
> haven't got past the preliminary design state.

Have a look on AVSIM for a series of files by Carlyle Sharp. They may solve
the problem.

Filenames are: colorado_lakes_project_1.zip to colorado_lakes_project_4.zip

May be worth a look.

Tim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Crash,

Geeez, what's wrong with you, man - it looks pretty easy, as long as
you're a nuclear physicist, have a second job as a rocket scientist, and pad
out your week as a part-time actuary!! )

Regards,
Thicko Ward
"CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
newsVT1e.7226$Dz4.3597@okepread01...
> Oskar Wagner wrote:
> > curious about the outcome...... ;-) But I'm sure it WILL take some
> > time.......
>
> Geezzz, I got lost right after "download........."
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Oskar,

What sort of download speeds do you guys get over there?

Even on ADSL Broadband here, 2 DVDs worth of download would take some
time!

My medium/high account here is 512 download and 256 upload, and that
costs AUS$70/month..

Regards,
John Ward
"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
news:d280da$rnb$1@news.hispeed.ch...
> "Chris Thomas" <CThomas@mminternet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:MPG.1cb1179b1d99c64f989681@news.mminternet.com...
> > In article <1ra4618i3j38o.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net>,
> > nope@nospam.com says...
> >> Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
> >>
> >> > And am I right that 10m meshes cannot be used on FS9?
> >>
> >> You can certainly install them but the sim will ignore them.
> >
> > I believe it would be more correct to say that they will be used, but at
> > the resolution specified by MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL, which in FS 9.1 has a
> > maximum value of 21 (19 meters). I have Hawaii @ 9.6m which runs fine.
> >
> > Various problems have been reported with level 21, so a lot of simers
> > use 20 most of the time. The ability to specify 21 was added in the 9.1
> > patch, at which time MS had stopped active development of FS9, so it's
> > not clear how well it was tested.
> >
> > The best source I've found of both mesh (the underlying wire-frame of
> > land elevations), and land class (the default textures that get draped
> > over the mesh frame) is
> > http://portal.fsgensis.net/
> >
> > The data that everyone starts with is mostly public domain, usually from
> > the same source. However, all of the main datasets have glitches
> > (errors). The space shuttle data, for example, has significant errors
> > in NYC and Chicago, and around Tibet. It also doesn't cover north of
> > 65N, which includes northern Canada and Alaska. The care with which the
> > public data is reprocessed to be combined into a product is what
> > controls the final quality. FSgensis is one of the more careful
> > providers, and if one reports problems, they tend to review the area in
> > question and generate a patch.
> >
> > Other scenery I've had good luck with is MegaScenery / MegaCity,
> > FlyTampa (San Francisco and San Diego), and USA Roads, all of which play
> > well together with FSgenesis.
> >
> > /Chris
>
> Thank you Chris. That confirms my observation that there was no difference
> between 19m and 10m mesh. (with MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL set at 21).
> I downloaded the whole SRTM data and saved it on 2 DVD's. I tested some
> randomly selected areas but I need more to compare. Until now it doesn't
> impress me too much...... ;-) except for the huge amount of freely
available
> data!
> --
> Oskar
> (retired captain)
> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:42487038$0$10822$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Hi Oskar,
>
> What sort of download speeds do you guys get over there?
>
> Even on ADSL Broadband here, 2 DVDs worth of download would take some
> time!
>
> My medium/high account here is 512 download and 256 upload, and that
> costs AUS$70/month..
>
> Regards,
> John Ward
> "Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
> news:d280da$rnb$1@news.hispeed.ch...
>> "Chris Thomas" <CThomas@mminternet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> news:MPG.1cb1179b1d99c64f989681@news.mminternet.com...
>> > In article <1ra4618i3j38o.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net>,
>> > nope@nospam.com says...
>> >> Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > And am I right that 10m meshes cannot be used on FS9?
>> >>
>> >> You can certainly install them but the sim will ignore them.
>> >
>> > I believe it would be more correct to say that they will be used, but
>> > at
>> > the resolution specified by MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL, which in FS 9.1 has a
>> > maximum value of 21 (19 meters). I have Hawaii @ 9.6m which runs fine.
>> >
>> > Various problems have been reported with level 21, so a lot of simers
>> > use 20 most of the time. The ability to specify 21 was added in the
>> > 9.1
>> > patch, at which time MS had stopped active development of FS9, so it's
>> > not clear how well it was tested.
>> >
>> > The best source I've found of both mesh (the underlying wire-frame of
>> > land elevations), and land class (the default textures that get draped
>> > over the mesh frame) is
>> > http://portal.fsgensis.net/
>> >
>> > The data that everyone starts with is mostly public domain, usually
>> > from
>> > the same source. However, all of the main datasets have glitches
>> > (errors). The space shuttle data, for example, has significant errors
>> > in NYC and Chicago, and around Tibet. It also doesn't cover north of
>> > 65N, which includes northern Canada and Alaska. The care with which the
>> > public data is reprocessed to be combined into a product is what
>> > controls the final quality. FSgensis is one of the more careful
>> > providers, and if one reports problems, they tend to review the area in
>> > question and generate a patch.
>> >
>> > Other scenery I've had good luck with is MegaScenery / MegaCity,
>> > FlyTampa (San Francisco and San Diego), and USA Roads, all of which
>> > play
>> > well together with FSgenesis.
>> >
>> > /Chris
>>
>> Thank you Chris. That confirms my observation that there was no
>> difference
>> between 19m and 10m mesh. (with MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL set at 21).
>> I downloaded the whole SRTM data and saved it on 2 DVD's. I tested some
>> randomly selected areas but I need more to compare. Until now it doesn't
>> impress me too much...... ;-) except for the huge amount of freely
> available
>> data!
>> --
>> Oskar
>> (retired captain)
>> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
>>
>>
>
>
Hi John
I have 1024 download, 256 upload for around 40 Swiss Francs/month (unlimited
data amount) which is more or less 1:1 with the Aussie $......;-))
I got a quite stable connection on my TV cable and it took me exactly 19 hrs
to download the whole 8.8 GByte of the SRTM data.
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

In article <17mjby23uafh3.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net>,
nope@nospam.com says...
> Chris Thomas <CThomas@mminternet.com> wrote:
> > I have Hawaii @ 9.6m which runs fine.
>
> Are you absolutely positive the Hawaii terrain mesh in FS2004 is being
> rendered from this particular mesh file, albeit at a lower resolution of
> 19m? Or is it more likely the sim disregards this file and falls back to
> one of your separate "lower" resolution files you have installed for that
> area (presumably you have all of FSGenesis' mesh for the US installed?).

I keep my add-on scenery in separate folders so that I can turn it on
and off easily. The appearance of both Hawaii and the Grand Canyon, the
two 9m sceneries I have, look significantly different when I turn of the
9m folder, so I have to assume they're being processed. In the case of
Hawaii, the only other scenery I have covering the same area is the MS
default scenery, so it is a large difference.

That's not to say that 9m is without difficulties, especially when used
with other scenery, as anyone who made 9m scenery can attest. It's
worthwile to keep in mind that MS never wrote FS9 with a public scenery
interface. Some curious people 'reverse engineered' the distributed MS
scenery and said "I can do that." MS later released a SDK which
provided access to some tools and some insight into their process, but
it's still miles from an open public API. Hopefully, they won't become
even more closed with FS10.

/Chris

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Justin wrote:

> LOD12 (9.6m) isn't ignored, but it will only resolve to 19.2m (with
TMVL=21)
> with the current iteration of the terrain engine.

I guess I recollected this thread from the FSGenesis forum incorrectly
and I now stand corrected.

Thanks, Justin, and good to see you still eyeball this forum.

--
Peter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Oskar,

Interesting - twice our speed, for the same cost.

Parliamentary discussions have recently commenced here re introducing
"ADSL 2", with speed increases of maybe 10 times what's currently available.

No comments yet re prices, time scales, or political determination.

I'm under the impression that in the States, speeds can be as much as ~
8,000 Kbps, but hey, I've been wrong before, plenty of times????

Regards,
John Ward
"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
news:d2af0j$mc0$1@news.hispeed.ch...
> "John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:42487038$0$10822$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> > Hi Oskar,
> >
> > What sort of download speeds do you guys get over there?
> >
> > Even on ADSL Broadband here, 2 DVDs worth of download would take some
> > time!
> >
> > My medium/high account here is 512 download and 256 upload, and that
> > costs AUS$70/month..
> >
> > Regards,
> > John Ward
> > "Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
> > news:d280da$rnb$1@news.hispeed.ch...
> >> "Chris Thomas" <CThomas@mminternet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> >> news:MPG.1cb1179b1d99c64f989681@news.mminternet.com...
> >> > In article <1ra4618i3j38o.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net>,
> >> > nope@nospam.com says...
> >> >> Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > And am I right that 10m meshes cannot be used on FS9?
> >> >>
> >> >> You can certainly install them but the sim will ignore them.
> >> >
> >> > I believe it would be more correct to say that they will be used, but
> >> > at
> >> > the resolution specified by MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL, which in FS 9.1 has a
> >> > maximum value of 21 (19 meters). I have Hawaii @ 9.6m which runs
fine.
> >> >
> >> > Various problems have been reported with level 21, so a lot of simers
> >> > use 20 most of the time. The ability to specify 21 was added in the
> >> > 9.1
> >> > patch, at which time MS had stopped active development of FS9, so
it's
> >> > not clear how well it was tested.
> >> >
> >> > The best source I've found of both mesh (the underlying wire-frame of
> >> > land elevations), and land class (the default textures that get
draped
> >> > over the mesh frame) is
> >> > http://portal.fsgensis.net/
> >> >
> >> > The data that everyone starts with is mostly public domain, usually
> >> > from
> >> > the same source. However, all of the main datasets have glitches
> >> > (errors). The space shuttle data, for example, has significant
errors
> >> > in NYC and Chicago, and around Tibet. It also doesn't cover north of
> >> > 65N, which includes northern Canada and Alaska. The care with which
the
> >> > public data is reprocessed to be combined into a product is what
> >> > controls the final quality. FSgensis is one of the more careful
> >> > providers, and if one reports problems, they tend to review the area
in
> >> > question and generate a patch.
> >> >
> >> > Other scenery I've had good luck with is MegaScenery / MegaCity,
> >> > FlyTampa (San Francisco and San Diego), and USA Roads, all of which
> >> > play
> >> > well together with FSgenesis.
> >> >
> >> > /Chris
> >>
> >> Thank you Chris. That confirms my observation that there was no
> >> difference
> >> between 19m and 10m mesh. (with MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL set at 21).
> >> I downloaded the whole SRTM data and saved it on 2 DVD's. I tested some
> >> randomly selected areas but I need more to compare. Until now it
doesn't
> >> impress me too much...... ;-) except for the huge amount of freely
> > available
> >> data!
> >> --
> >> Oskar
> >> (retired captain)
> >> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> Hi John
> I have 1024 download, 256 upload for around 40 Swiss Francs/month
(unlimited
> data amount) which is more or less 1:1 with the Aussie $......;-))
> I got a quite stable connection on my TV cable and it took me exactly 19
hrs
> to download the whole 8.8 GByte of the SRTM data.
> --
> Oskar
> (retired captain)
> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
>
>

 

[GREGORY]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:59:22 +1000, "John Ward"
<johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> brought the following to our attention:

>Hi Oskar,
>
> Interesting - twice our speed, for the same cost.
>
> Parliamentary discussions have recently commenced here re introducing
>"ADSL 2", with speed increases of maybe 10 times what's currently available.
>
> No comments yet re prices, time scales, or political determination.
>
> I'm under the impression that in the States, speeds can be as much as ~
>8,000 Kbps, but hey, I've been wrong before, plenty of times????
>
>Regards,
>John Ward

Gents.. this isn't one of those `mine is better' kind of things.. but
here in New England the downstream is pushing 500KBps (KBytes)..
so then.. x8 = 4000 kbps (kbits).. about a Meg every two seconds if
the sender can handle it. Back in the dialup modem days it was
5 mins per Meg.

Some interesting history points.. in 1996 Bell Atlantic provisioned an
ISDN line into the home office that did either 64 kbps or 128 kbps
depending on which icon was clicked. Then in 2001 a hotel manager
allowed me to install a 250 kbps microwave link on the roof to a
provider about 1km away. It was a dedicated 2.4 GHz point-to-point
link with inexpensive terminal device. Have some kool photos if you
want to see. That was in summer 2001.. and soon the technology
party would be over!! Also true for the aviation hayday unfortunately.

-Gregory

>"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
>
>> "John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>>
>> > Hi Oskar,
>> >
>> > What sort of download speeds do you guys get over there?
>> >
>> > Even on ADSL Broadband here, 2 DVDs worth of download would take some
>> > time!
>> >
>> > My medium/high account here is 512 download and 256 upload, and that
>> > costs AUS$70/month..
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > John Ward
>> > "Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
>> > news:d280da$rnb$1@news.hispeed.ch...
>> >> "Chris Thomas" <CThomas@mminternet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
>> >> news:MPG.1cb1179b1d99c64f989681@news.mminternet.com...
>> >> > In article <1ra4618i3j38o.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net>,
>> >> > nope@nospam.com says...
>> >> >> Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > And am I right that 10m meshes cannot be used on FS9?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You can certainly install them but the sim will ignore them.
>> >> >
>> >> > I believe it would be more correct to say that they will be used, but
>> >> > at
>> >> > the resolution specified by MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL, which in FS 9.1 has a
>> >> > maximum value of 21 (19 meters). I have Hawaii @ 9.6m which runs
>fine.
>> >> >
>> >> > Various problems have been reported with level 21, so a lot of simers
>> >> > use 20 most of the time. The ability to specify 21 was added in the
>> >> > 9.1
>> >> > patch, at which time MS had stopped active development of FS9, so
>it's
>> >> > not clear how well it was tested.
>> >> >
>> >> > The best source I've found of both mesh (the underlying wire-frame of
>> >> > land elevations), and land class (the default textures that get
>draped
>> >> > over the mesh frame) is
>> >> > http://portal.fsgensis.net/
>> >> >
>> >> > The data that everyone starts with is mostly public domain, usually
>> >> > from
>> >> > the same source. However, all of the main datasets have glitches
>> >> > (errors). The space shuttle data, for example, has significant
>errors
>> >> > in NYC and Chicago, and around Tibet. It also doesn't cover north of
>> >> > 65N, which includes northern Canada and Alaska. The care with which
>the
>> >> > public data is reprocessed to be combined into a product is what
>> >> > controls the final quality. FSgensis is one of the more careful
>> >> > providers, and if one reports problems, they tend to review the area
>in
>> >> > question and generate a patch.
>> >> >
>> >> > Other scenery I've had good luck with is MegaScenery / MegaCity,
>> >> > FlyTampa (San Francisco and San Diego), and USA Roads, all of which
>> >> > play
>> >> > well together with FSgenesis.
>> >> >
>> >> > /Chris
>> >>
>> >> Thank you Chris. That confirms my observation that there was no
>> >> difference
>> >> between 19m and 10m mesh. (with MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL set at 21).
>> >> I downloaded the whole SRTM data and saved it on 2 DVD's. I tested some
>> >> randomly selected areas but I need more to compare. Until now it
>doesn't
>> >> impress me too much...... ;-) except for the huge amount of freely
>> > available
>> >> data!
>> >> --
>> >> Oskar
>> >> (retired captain)
>> >> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> Hi John
>> I have 1024 download, 256 upload for around 40 Swiss Francs/month
>(unlimited
>> data amount) which is more or less 1:1 with the Aussie $......;-))
>> I got a quite stable connection on my TV cable and it took me exactly 19
>hrs
>> to download the whole 8.8 GByte of the SRTM data.
>> --
>> Oskar
>> (retired captain)
>> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
>>
>>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Gregory,

1996 was when I first booted up a computer, and I still remember that I
actually pushed the button, and then consciously stood back a few feet,
"just in case". )

What are the trends in the States re speeds/costs?

Regards,
John Ward
"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:qqbl41tagmkcej50b0aoi59evn5b3v5m0o@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:59:22 +1000, "John Ward"
> <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> brought the following to our attention:
>
> >Hi Oskar,
> >
> > Interesting - twice our speed, for the same cost.
> >
> > Parliamentary discussions have recently commenced here re introducing
> >"ADSL 2", with speed increases of maybe 10 times what's currently
available.
> >
> > No comments yet re prices, time scales, or political determination.
> >
> > I'm under the impression that in the States, speeds can be as much as
~
> >8,000 Kbps, but hey, I've been wrong before, plenty of times????
> >
> >Regards,
> >John Ward
>
> Gents.. this isn't one of those `mine is better' kind of things.. but
> here in New England the downstream is pushing 500KBps (KBytes)..
> so then.. x8 = 4000 kbps (kbits).. about a Meg every two seconds if
> the sender can handle it. Back in the dialup modem days it was
> 5 mins per Meg.
>
> Some interesting history points.. in 1996 Bell Atlantic provisioned an
> ISDN line into the home office that did either 64 kbps or 128 kbps
> depending on which icon was clicked. Then in 2001 a hotel manager
> allowed me to install a 250 kbps microwave link on the roof to a
> provider about 1km away. It was a dedicated 2.4 GHz point-to-point
> link with inexpensive terminal device. Have some kool photos if you
> want to see. That was in summer 2001.. and soon the technology
> party would be over!! Also true for the aviation hayday unfortunately.
>
> -Gregory
>
> >"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
> >
> >> "John Ward" <johnrmward@optusnet.com.au> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> >>
> >> > Hi Oskar,
> >> >
> >> > What sort of download speeds do you guys get over there?
> >> >
> >> > Even on ADSL Broadband here, 2 DVDs worth of download would take
some
> >> > time!
> >> >
> >> > My medium/high account here is 512 download and 256 upload, and
that
> >> > costs AUS$70/month..
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > John Ward
> >> > "Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in message
> >> > news:d280da$rnb$1@news.hispeed.ch...
> >> >> "Chris Thomas" <CThomas@mminternet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> >> >> news:MPG.1cb1179b1d99c64f989681@news.mminternet.com...
> >> >> > In article <1ra4618i3j38o.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net>,
> >> >> > nope@nospam.com says...
> >> >> >> Oskar Wagner <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > And am I right that 10m meshes cannot be used on FS9?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> You can certainly install them but the sim will ignore them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I believe it would be more correct to say that they will be used,
but
> >> >> > at
> >> >> > the resolution specified by MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL, which in FS 9.1 has
a
> >> >> > maximum value of 21 (19 meters). I have Hawaii @ 9.6m which runs
> >fine.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Various problems have been reported with level 21, so a lot of
simers
> >> >> > use 20 most of the time. The ability to specify 21 was added in
the
> >> >> > 9.1
> >> >> > patch, at which time MS had stopped active development of FS9, so
> >it's
> >> >> > not clear how well it was tested.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The best source I've found of both mesh (the underlying wire-frame
of
> >> >> > land elevations), and land class (the default textures that get
> >draped
> >> >> > over the mesh frame) is
> >> >> > http://portal.fsgensis.net/
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The data that everyone starts with is mostly public domain,
usually
> >> >> > from
> >> >> > the same source. However, all of the main datasets have glitches
> >> >> > (errors). The space shuttle data, for example, has significant
> >errors
> >> >> > in NYC and Chicago, and around Tibet. It also doesn't cover north
of
> >> >> > 65N, which includes northern Canada and Alaska. The care with
which
> >the
> >> >> > public data is reprocessed to be combined into a product is what
> >> >> > controls the final quality. FSgensis is one of the more careful
> >> >> > providers, and if one reports problems, they tend to review the
area
> >in
> >> >> > question and generate a patch.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Other scenery I've had good luck with is MegaScenery / MegaCity,
> >> >> > FlyTampa (San Francisco and San Diego), and USA Roads, all of
which
> >> >> > play
> >> >> > well together with FSgenesis.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > /Chris
> >> >>
> >> >> Thank you Chris. That confirms my observation that there was no
> >> >> difference
> >> >> between 19m and 10m mesh. (with MAX_VERTEX_LEVEL set at 21).
> >> >> I downloaded the whole SRTM data and saved it on 2 DVD's. I tested
some
> >> >> randomly selected areas but I need more to compare. Until now it
> >doesn't
> >> >> impress me too much...... ;-) except for the huge amount of freely
> >> > available
> >> >> data!
> >> >> --
> >> >> Oskar
> >> >> (retired captain)
> >> >> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Hi John
> >> I have 1024 download, 256 upload for around 40 Swiss Francs/month
> >(unlimited
> >> data amount) which is more or less 1:1 with the Aussie $......;-))
> >> I got a quite stable connection on my TV cable and it took me exactly
19
> >hrs
> >> to download the whole 8.8 GByte of the SRTM data.
> >> --
> >> Oskar
> >> (retired captain)
> >> Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
> >>
> >>
> >
>