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Why won't Dos see my SATA drives when Raid does?

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January 15, 2006 6:17:26 PM

Hi Everyone - bit of a newbie - but have some knowledge.

Building a new machine;
asus P4S800d_x motherboard
nvidia graphics card
intel 2.4
450 w ps
2x sata drives

Bare machine, everything new, trying to get the hard drives up and running so I can install XP.

I can get the machine to see the drives in raid setup off the startup menu, I can configure them in raid 0 and raid 1, save and re-boot, (you can see and hear them working and they setp up in raid 0 with no error messages) but when i get to the dos promp I cannot access anything but my cd drives and floppy drives.

I have a motherboard cd - but nothing can be extraced without first installing windows.

can't get the sata's on line in dos - so am totally stumped as to where to go from here.

Am I missing something totally obvious? :( 

please help!

More about : dos sata drives raid

January 16, 2006 12:24:09 PM

Since you are setting up a RAID array, and RAID need drivers, then you need drivers to setup a RAID with DOS as well.. Now, if you plan on stand alone SATA HDD (not RAIDed), Maybe that you simply have to disable RAID in BIOS and set SATA as IDE .. depending the option your BIOS has.

Are you using thenative chipset controller, an onboard controller or an add-on card?
January 16, 2006 5:48:02 PM

Thanks for the reply,

I'm using the native chipset controller in the motherboard - it is said to be raid complient anyway...

I'll try to see if I can disble the raid function in setup.

If I did want to use the raid setup I would need additional drivers perhaps, I have some software on cd but no way of installing it without gettin windows working first catch 22!

cheers
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January 16, 2006 9:01:49 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the reply,

I'm using the native chipset controller in the motherboard - it is said to be raid complient anyway...

I'll try to see if I can disble the raid function in setup.

If I did want to use the raid setup I would need additional drivers perhaps, I have some software on cd but no way of installing it without gettin windows working first catch 22!

cheers


RAID is a controller mode. It has nothing to do with the interface, SATA or PATA. For RAID, you need at least 2 drives. You nly have one, then forget about RAID. So, if you have RAID set for the controller in BIOS, disable it or set it to IDE or SATA. This way, you simply use your drive as any other drive..
January 17, 2006 8:19:33 PM

I have 2 disks in the machine - otherwise - you are right there would be no reason to use raid - and come to think of it I want two seperate drives anyway so i will try and disable raid -
January 17, 2006 8:39:12 PM

Having 2 drives don't necessary mean RAID. I suggest you to read about what is RAID, so you wont try up anything that is not really necessary.
January 17, 2006 9:05:26 PM

Why are you using "DOS"? Set the CDDVD to boot and XP will prompt you for the RAID floppy.
January 17, 2006 10:00:19 PM

how to install windows XP on a raid controller for newb:

be certain you have the dos raid driver disquette,
( could be made from mobo cd or manufacturer website )

boot from windows cd AND press F6 when asked
( to enter third party scsi, raid drivers )

insert disquette when asked,

continue installation as usual.

also, a raid is a controller capable of making drives working together as a single partition with or withour redundancy. if raid function is disabled, the driver is still necessary ( maybe some exceptions )
January 17, 2006 10:04:16 PM

Why RAID drivers if no RAID array is defined and used??? Why a sound card drivers if no sound card is installed?? Why lan card drivers if no lan card is installed??

You don't read that this guy won't use RAID at all!!

nforce3 and nforce4, ULI, SIS and VIA kt800 chipset for AMD 64 are the one that I did fully install without any drivers for RAID or SATA.

The first nforce3 150 did not have native SATA support thou. Onboard controller were used.

Now, every modern chipset are fully compatible with SATA interface. Or maybe I'm just better that others.. Or I did screw every install I did without the drivers??? But none is having problem ... What's the deal?
January 24, 2006 11:58:22 PM

**Why a sound card drivers if no sound card is installed??

that is stupid, you still need a driver for a sound card even if 90% of the features are disabled

**nforce3 and nforce4, ULI, SIS and VIA kt800 chipset for AMD 64 are **the one that I did fully install without any drivers for RAID or SATA.

note that your windows xp boot cd WON'T BE A DOS

**Now, every modern chipset are fully compatible with SATA interface. **Or maybe I'm just better that others.. Or I did screw every install I did **without the drivers??? But none is having problem ... What's the deal?

windows xp cd WILL contains common drivers but not all, that's why some boards WILL need the controller driver disquette ( especially recent ones ) and even native support could require an additionnal driver.

the perfect solution is adding all existing drivers directly on boot cd.

**You don't read that this guy won't use RAID at all!!

and Pat, think about it twice, dos even need drivers to see NTFS partitions
so if your installation session can see your disk, it's ok but if it doesn't, you need the driver
January 25, 2006 12:40:23 AM

Quote:
**Why a sound card drivers if no sound card is installed??

that is stupid, you still need a driver for a sound card even if 90% of the features are disabled


What is more stupid is to install drivers for a sound card when none is installed... take the time to read...not fully reading a sentence is stupid too

Quote:
**nforce3 and nforce4, ULI, SIS and VIA kt800 chipset for AMD 64 are **the one that I did fully install without any drivers for RAID or SATA.

note that your windows xp boot cd WON'T BE A DOS


So, you can boot Linux of a CDROM too... As long as the controller answer the INT13 call from basic BIOS command, anything attatched to this controller will work with DOS. Or Linux.. Or anything that use BIOS call to access devices befor any OS loading. That's how it works..

Quote:
**Now, every modern chipset are fully compatible with SATA interface. **Or maybe I'm just better that others.. Or I did screw every install I did **without the drivers??? But none is having problem ... What's the deal?

windows xp cd WILL contains common drivers but not all, that's why some boards WILL need the controller driver disquette ( especially recent ones ) and even native support could require an additionnal driver.


You simply have no clue about what you are talking about. Controller like nforce4 has the SATA interface added to the controller.. the controller is the same that control the cdrom too. install dont give a fuck about the interface, it just interrogate the controller with basic IDE command, and if the controller answer then any drive attatched to it will be reported to windows, or any OS by the way. Even DOS. RAID is another story, the controller will be used in a different way and wont answer to the INT13 call, so no OS will be able to use it without any drivers. When the controller answer the Installer query about its HDD and devices it had plugged, and the controller report about the HDD, it don't matter which interface it is now. The controller report the drive to the installer and the installation begin. then Microsoft will use its standard set of drivers to install the controller to make it fully functionnal. Then controller drivers can be used to enable enhenced feature of the controller. Good exemple is the nvidia SW drivers. Most that had tried it found it to mess with their devices, and rolled back to standard MS ones

Quote:
the perfect solution is adding all existing drivers directly on boot cd.

**You don't read that this guy won't use RAID at all!!


Maybe all he had to do was to set the controller to IDE or disable RAID somewhere in BIOS. I have no first hand experience with this board, but from the Asus web site, it says to support SATA natively. If I was not on dial up right now, I would have downloaded the manual and had a look at BIOS setting. But if he was able to set up RAID, then it is because RAID is enabled somewhere and it should not to use single drive.

Quote:
and Pat, think about it twice, dos even need drivers to see NTFS partitions
so if your installation session can see your disk, it's ok but if it doesn't, you need the driver


Ouch.. That, that is stupid.. NTFS drivers!!! OMG.. NTFS is a filesystem. It has nothing to do with the kind of drive or or the controller, but rather how the file will be stored on the media. DOS and older version of Windows use FAT. 2000 and XP use FAT and NTFS.

Oh.. the XP install program is not even a DOS one. You dont believe me? Just create a DOS boot disk, boot from it and try to start XP installation. It won't work!

What if you google INT13 BIOS call? You'll learnd how drive and devices are detected and used in a pre OS installation.. Then you'll Google NTFS and FAT files system. You'll see that you don't need drivers. Then you'll realize how pointless you post was.
January 25, 2006 1:28:32 AM

obviously, you're taking it personnal then, i repeat, as saying that

**Why a sound card drivers if no sound card is installed??

i mean that the controller is still there and it could need a driver even if the feature is disables as on via k8m800 chipset ( ga-k8m800 ) as reference, even with raid disables, sata won't be available without the driver disk during windows installation

**Now, every modern chipset are fully compatible with SATA interface. **Or maybe I'm just better that others.. Or I did screw every install I did **without the drivers??? But none is having problem ... What's the deal?

what you said applies only while on the default controller, if the sata are on a second, add-on controller, it will need a driver even if raid is disabled in bios. a raid controller with raid disables WILL need a driver it it ain't on the windows boot cd and native sata support doesn't exclude this eventuality, that' s just another way to say what i said. and i never said disabling raid couldn't solve the problem, i just said IT'S NOT ALWAYS WORKING and telling the last part of the solution.

for that one, i don't know what you're blabbering so i split it up

ouch... : did i say it was in relation with the current problem, NO i remembered you how peaky are driver troubles

oh... : i know a dos boot disk won't be able to run the install exe but it's by lack of ram. there are dos disks with all drivers needed to install it though.


and what if you google : ntfs driver
it's not exactly a driver BUT IT'S CALLED A DRIVER and it's just already on your system if it works. you know win98 won't see an ntfs partition and installing an "ntfs driver" a so-called software that allows it to read files

i have nothing to learn on this, and i don't say you have to.
you just said didn't read as i tried to see solutions below yours if yours fails.

all you said was
You don't read that this guy won't use RAID at all!!
you just scrap the mood of people trying to anticipate the possible hole in your solution.

so again, you should avoid answering like that, you're making the same mistake again and again saying that i said something i didn't and trying to insult me as i'm telling you i didn't say you solution won't work, i said it could be insufficient
January 25, 2006 11:12:19 PM

Sorry, I won't continue this discussion because you have no clue about how BIOS/HDD controller/RAID/DOS/Installers/... does work and you need more that knowing the stuff, you need to understand it.

BTW, XP installer don't work with a DOS boot disk... because DOS is 16 bits and Installer is 32 bits.. has nothing to do with RAM...
January 25, 2006 11:51:09 PM

i installed windows xp using a 16 bit boot disquette AND additionnal software

je sais que t'essaie just de faire le smatt pis de discréditer les autres... mais t'es pas avec la bonne personne pour ça... quand je dis qqch, c'est que je l'ai expérimenté, donc un pilote raid a été requis sur au moins deux cartes mères et ce même en désactivant le raid. pourquoi, je m'en fous et j'en parles pas, mais j'ai vu ce cas. c'est tout.

http://www.teamatic.net/win/xp_install_auto/winntsif/in...

recherche Installation à partir du DOS
ça commences là et l'utilitaire y est.
la limitation est: le disque de destination doit être
en fat32. j'ai essayé de la faire en ntfs une fois, ça a marché mais le logiciel de gestion de table ntfs ralentit considérablement l'opération

and it's not because you've not seen it that it doesn't exist.
!