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Why no PPCs with a hard drive?

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Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 8, 2004 6:24:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I don't currently own a PPC or PDA..... but have been
interested in them for awhile now

Question.....why no PPCS with a hard drive in them for
storage?

I mean the Apple iPod can even be used as a PDA with
proper software and it has a hard drive. See link

http://tinyurl.com/3lo2z


Seems to me a PDA needs a lot of storage and a hard
drive is way to go.

Opinions?

More about : ppcs hard drive

Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 8, 2004 6:24:40 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Did you see:
http://www.creative.com/products/welcome.asp?cat=210
--
Cari (MS-MVP Printing, Imaging & Hardware)
www.coribright.com

<me6@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:9vmuj0djec8ub85lpkcoctnlb6hksss5ak@4ax.com...
>I don't currently own a PPC or PDA..... but have been
> interested in them for awhile now
>
> Question.....why no PPCS with a hard drive in them for
> storage?
>
> I mean the Apple iPod can even be used as a PDA with
> proper software and it has a hard drive. See link
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3lo2z
>
>
> Seems to me a PDA needs a lot of storage and a hard
> drive is way to go.
>
> Opinions?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 8, 2004 6:41:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

It may not be too far away.

Toshiba announced at the first of the year a .85" drive that is the form
factor of an SD card. While that in itself isn't that big of a deal, the
power consumption on this drive is about 65% less than a MicroDrive. This
potential power savings is huge and could make a real impact on the market.
Further, Toshiba claims they can get up to 60GB of space on one of the
drives.

I haven't seen one of these drives although I've gone through the process of
requesting a demo unit from Toshiba to do a review on it. At this point
I've not heard back but hopefully I can get one and report back the good and
bad of it.

Regards,

--
Clinton Fitch
Editor
Clinton Fitch (Dot) Com!
HPC:Factor

http://www.clintonfitch.com - Pocket PC Reviews
http://www.hpcfactor.com - Handheld PC Reviews


<me6@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:9vmuj0djec8ub85lpkcoctnlb6hksss5ak@4ax.com...
>I don't currently own a PPC or PDA..... but have been
> interested in them for awhile now
>
> Question.....why no PPCS with a hard drive in them for
> storage?
>
> I mean the Apple iPod can even be used as a PDA with
> proper software and it has a hard drive. See link
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3lo2z
>
>
> Seems to me a PDA needs a lot of storage and a hard
> drive is way to go.
>
> Opinions?
Related resources
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 8, 2004 11:35:52 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:24:39 -0500, me6@privacy.net wrote:

>Question.....why no PPCS with a hard drive in them for
>storage?
It has a hard drive. The flavor of the hard drive is either
Compact Flash or Secure Digital.


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Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 8, 2004 11:43:52 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

To answer the question, intended use scenarios and power. The PPC is
intended to be up and available at a moment's notice, which is not possible
with a hard drive, it has to come to speed before access. You would
certainly want the OS to power the drive down when you weren't using it,
since the PPC is never really off itself, unlike the ipod. There is
potential data corruption with a hard drive in a portable device. A missing
bit or byte in an MP3 isn't noticeable, in a spreadsheet it is. The hard
drive takes considerable power, over solid state memory. Yes the ipod lasts
longer but it doesn't have a 2x3 inch backlight touch sensitive screen to
power as well as the hard drive. It certainly wouldn't be suitable to put
the OS on the hard drive, because that would give you a start up time, when
you turned it on, similar to doing a soft reset every time you wanted to use
it.

It may change, as the technology changes and the customer demand changes,
but at least when the PPC/PDA was conceived and at this point in the
evolution, stuffing a permanent hard drive in one hasn't been consistent
with the perceived use. As has been pointed out, you can have the option of
getting a CF hard drive. Flash memory is getting fairly reasonable for good
size ones though.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
<me6@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:9vmuj0djec8ub85lpkcoctnlb6hksss5ak@4ax.com...
> I don't currently own a PPC or PDA..... but have been
> interested in them for awhile now
>
> Question.....why no PPCS with a hard drive in them for
> storage?
>
> I mean the Apple iPod can even be used as a PDA with
> proper software and it has a hard drive. See link
>
> http://tinyurl.com/3lo2z
>
>
> Seems to me a PDA needs a lot of storage and a hard
> drive is way to go.
>
> Opinions?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 9, 2004 6:03:44 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Amy Gray" <JudgeAmyGrayNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gn5vj0l07vabe77pd1nqoup6a1h6pr970s@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:24:39 -0500, me6@privacy.net wrote:
>
> >Question.....why no PPCS with a hard drive in them for
> >storage?
> It has a hard drive. The flavor of the hard drive is either
> Compact Flash or Secure Digital.
>
>

Most CF/SD memory is Solid State (memory chips) rather than a hard drive-
although there is the IBM/Hitachi microdrive which is CF II (slightly
thicker than normal CF memory cards which are type I). There are other ones
too- like the Magicstor- up to 4.4Gb now
http://www.gs-magicstor.com/english/product/product_a_0....
At the moment these are add-on cards, not built in.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 9, 2004 2:17:57 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 02:03:44 +0100, "AlanS"
<news@remove.abyz.fslife.co.uk> wrote:

>Most CF/SD memory is Solid State (memory chips) rather than a hard drive-
>although there is the IBM/Hitachi microdrive which is CF II (slightly
>thicker than normal CF memory cards which are type I). There are other ones
>too- like the Magicstor- up to 4.4Gb now
> http://www.gs-magicstor.com/english/product/product_a_0....
>At the moment these are add-on cards, not built in.
>
>
But the point is they act like a hard drive. I have a number of 256
mb SD cards, I remember when I had an original IBM PC and
the hard drive on that was 20 meg.




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Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 9, 2004 2:52:53 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

>It has a hard drive. The flavor of the hard drive is either
>Compact Flash or Secure Digital.

True I suppose

But I cant afford enough solid state memory as to make
a unit viable like it would be with a 20 gig hard drive
in it. No?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 9, 2004 2:54:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

>To answer the question, intended use scenarios and power. The PPC is
>intended to be up and available at a moment's notice, which is not possible
>with a hard drive, it has to come to speed before access. You would
>certainly want the OS to power the drive down when you weren't using it,
>since the PPC is never really off itself, unlike the ipod. There is
>potential data corruption with a hard drive in a portable device. A missing
>bit or byte in an MP3 isn't noticeable, in a spreadsheet it is. The hard
>drive takes considerable power, over solid state memory. Yes the ipod lasts
>longer but it doesn't have a 2x3 inch backlight touch sensitive screen to
>power as well as the hard drive. It certainly wouldn't be suitable to put
>the OS on the hard drive, because that would give you a start up time, when
>you turned it on, similar to doing a soft reset every time you wanted to use
>it.

All VERY good points .....and ones I hadn't thought of

Thanks so much for reply Sven!!
September 9, 2004 5:42:29 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I use a PCMCIA 2gb HD with my IPAQ3630 and Jacket :) 

"Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices" <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o 11a45glEHA.3104@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> To answer the question, intended use scenarios and power. The PPC is
> intended to be up and available at a moment's notice, which is not
> possible
> with a hard drive, it has to come to speed before access. You would
> certainly want the OS to power the drive down when you weren't using it,
> since the PPC is never really off itself, unlike the ipod. There is
> potential data corruption with a hard drive in a portable device. A
> missing
> bit or byte in an MP3 isn't noticeable, in a spreadsheet it is. The hard
> drive takes considerable power, over solid state memory. Yes the ipod
> lasts
> longer but it doesn't have a 2x3 inch backlight touch sensitive screen to
> power as well as the hard drive. It certainly wouldn't be suitable to put
> the OS on the hard drive, because that would give you a start up time,
> when
> you turned it on, similar to doing a soft reset every time you wanted to
> use
> it.
>
> It may change, as the technology changes and the customer demand changes,
> but at least when the PPC/PDA was conceived and at this point in the
> evolution, stuffing a permanent hard drive in one hasn't been consistent
> with the perceived use. As has been pointed out, you can have the option
> of
> getting a CF hard drive. Flash memory is getting fairly reasonable for
> good
> size ones though.
>
> --
> Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
> <me6@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:9vmuj0djec8ub85lpkcoctnlb6hksss5ak@4ax.com...
>> I don't currently own a PPC or PDA..... but have been
>> interested in them for awhile now
>>
>> Question.....why no PPCS with a hard drive in them for
>> storage?
>>
>> I mean the Apple iPod can even be used as a PDA with
>> proper software and it has a hard drive. See link
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/3lo2z
>>
>>
>> Seems to me a PDA needs a lot of storage and a hard
>> drive is way to go.
>>
>> Opinions?
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 9, 2004 5:42:30 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

>I use a PCMCIA 2gb HD with my IPAQ3630 and Jacket :) 

Im curious

What does 2 gigs worth of pcmcia cost now days?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 9, 2004 9:05:34 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Amy Gray" <JudgeAmyGrayNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1cp0k058ag5va4r1a7si6q3bqifqtgq0q0@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 02:03:44 +0100, "AlanS"
> <news@remove.abyz.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Most CF/SD memory is Solid State (memory chips) rather than a hard drive-
> >although there is the IBM/Hitachi microdrive which is CF II (slightly
> >thicker than normal CF memory cards which are type I). There are other
ones
> >too- like the Magicstor- up to 4.4Gb now
> > http://www.gs-magicstor.com/english/product/product_a_0....
> >At the moment these are add-on cards, not built in.
> >
> >
> But the point is they act like a hard drive. I have a number of 256
> mb SD cards, I remember when I had an original IBM PC and
> the hard drive on that was 20 meg.
>

There are vast differences. One uses physical components to work and more
current/less battery life.

Saying they act the same is like saying a bicycle and a car act the same.
Both are methods of transport, so yes they act the same.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 9, 2004 10:14:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:05:34 +0100, "AlanS"
<news@remove.abyz.fslife.co.uk> wrote:

>There are vast differences. One uses physical components to work and more
>current/less battery life.
The bottom line is it stores files. Beyond that I don't really care.
It works.




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Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 10, 2004 2:35:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

AlanS wrote:
> There are vast differences. One uses physical components to work and more
> current/less battery life.
>
> Saying they act the same is like saying a bicycle and a car act the same.
> Both are methods of transport, so yes they act the same.

Surely the point is that they both store vast quantities of data? The
semantics don't really matter so long as I can perform random I/O on the
device. It's just non-volatile storage :) 

Not sure the bike/car analogy is even relevant. They perform the task
dfferently, but they do the same job, which (I think) was the original
author's point.

(And yeah, I remember having a 120mb drive on my A1200, you IBM kids
were robbed...)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 10, 2004 4:10:36 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Amy Gray" <JudgeAmyGrayNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:jcl1k0l062d7qtir3a87l8eqoqif5tdqii@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:05:34 +0100, "AlanS"
> <news@remove.abyz.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >There are vast differences. One uses physical components to work and more
> >current/less battery life.
> The bottom line is it stores files. Beyond that I don't really care.
> It works.
>
>


I have a big metal cabinet at work, that stores files too. It also works.
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 10, 2004 11:01:33 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices wrote:

> To answer the question, intended use scenarios and power. The PPC is
> intended to be up and available at a moment's notice, which is not
> possible with a hard drive, it has to come to speed before access.
> You would certainly want the OS to power the drive down when you
> weren't using it, since the PPC is never really off itself, unlike
> the ipod. There is potential data corruption with a hard drive in a
> portable device. A missing bit or byte in an MP3 isn't noticeable, in
> a spreadsheet it is. The hard drive takes considerable power, over
> solid state memory.

Taking all the above into account, why don't PCs (desktop or laptop)
use solid state memory instead of hard drives? Surely that would mean
they'd boot faster, wouldn't need defragging, etc? Is it because of
the risk of data corruption as you mentioned above? I thought solid
state disks (and/or flash memory) was safer than a hard drive?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 10, 2004 11:01:34 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:01:33 +1000, "Whammo"
<dfjhgdfhkhgfyuh@dcjhbcmnxbc.com> wrote:

>Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices wrote:
>
>Taking all the above into account, why don't PCs (desktop or laptop)
>use solid state memory instead of hard drives? Surely that would mean
>they'd boot faster, wouldn't need defragging, etc? Is it because of
>the risk of data corruption as you mentioned above? I thought solid
>state disks (and/or flash memory) was safer than a hard drive?

Hmmmmm.... Do you know anybody who can afford to buy 512meg or above
of solid state memory which runs at the speeds that modern systems run
?

You gota remember many SD cards are rated in multipliers of CD speeds
eg 32x ... that translates to 1Meg a second or so. Hard drives
routinely churn out blocks at 30-250Meg a second. Some way to go yet
;-)
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 10, 2004 4:19:39 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:10:36 +0100, "AlanS"
<news@remove.abyz.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I have a big metal cabinet at work, that stores files too. It also works.
>

Yeah, and you can store chopped up body parts in those too !!!
Call it dual-use ;-)

Cheers - Neil
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 11, 2004 2:39:28 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media] wrote:

>> Taking all the above into account, why don't PCs (desktop or laptop)
>> use solid state memory instead of hard drives? Surely that would
>> mean they'd boot faster, wouldn't need defragging, etc? Is it
>> because of the risk of data corruption as you mentioned above? I
>> thought solid state disks (and/or flash memory) was safer than a
>> hard drive?
>
> You gota remember many SD cards are rated in multipliers of CD speeds
> eg 32x ... that translates to 1Meg a second or so. Hard drives
> routinely churn out blocks at 30-250Meg a second. Some way to go yet
> ;-)

Yes, but if speed/price wasn't an issue, do my points stand? Would
hard drives therefore actually be inferior to SD cards that could
run at the same speed and cheap price?
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 11, 2004 2:39:29 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:39:28 +1000, "Whammo"
<dfjhgdfhkhgfyuh@dcjhbcmnxbc.com> wrote:

Well.... as they are critical buying points, in reality ....
but anyway a few more years down the line we'll all be on holographic
crystal memory devices so probably then, your points will be valid ;-)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/02/08/say_hello_to_ho...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/259347.stm

Cheers - Neil

>Yes, but if speed/price wasn't an issue, do my points stand? Would
>hard drives therefore actually be inferior to SD cards that could
>run at the same speed and cheap price?
>
September 11, 2004 3:24:09 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

$100 I guess, no worries per say with seek speed, but doesnt like the bumps
in my racing car :( 

Believe it or not someone has loaded win2k into ram, apparantly is was
F'nFast, there's an article somewhere. Only problem was the OS had to be
re-installed each time!

"Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]" <neil@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:k4f3k01l0ne2bkr0ni67g0qcnhd8h8egep@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 22:39:28 +1000, "Whammo"
> <dfjhgdfhkhgfyuh@dcjhbcmnxbc.com> wrote:
>
> Well.... as they are critical buying points, in reality ....
> but anyway a few more years down the line we'll all be on holographic
> crystal memory devices so probably then, your points will be valid ;-)
>
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/02/08/say_hello_to_ho...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/259347.stm
>
> Cheers - Neil
>
>>Yes, but if speed/price wasn't an issue, do my points stand? Would
>>hard drives therefore actually be inferior to SD cards that could
>>run at the same speed and cheap price?
>>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 11, 2004 12:19:42 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

You can get a 1GB SD card now for under $150


AlanS wrote:
> "Amy Gray" <JudgeAmyGrayNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gn5vj0l07vabe77pd1nqoup6a1h6pr970s@4ax.com...
>
>>On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:24:39 -0500, me6@privacy.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Question.....why no PPCS with a hard drive in them for
>>>storage?
>>
>>It has a hard drive. The flavor of the hard drive is either
>>Compact Flash or Secure Digital.
>>
>>
>
>
> Most CF/SD memory is Solid State (memory chips) rather than a hard drive-
> although there is the IBM/Hitachi microdrive which is CF II (slightly
> thicker than normal CF memory cards which are type I). There are other ones
> too- like the Magicstor- up to 4.4Gb now
> http://www.gs-magicstor.com/english/product/product_a_0....
> At the moment these are add-on cards, not built in.
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b G Storage
September 11, 2004 8:43:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

You can get 2.2 Gb ones in the UK for £101.63 ($180)
And things are often cheaper in the USA.


"Sean Coleman" <seanmcoleman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MKOdnd5C15w8it7cRVn-oQ@comcast.com...
> You can get a 1GB SD card now for under $150
>
>
> AlanS wrote:
> > "Amy Gray" <JudgeAmyGrayNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:gn5vj0l07vabe77pd1nqoup6a1h6pr970s@4ax.com...
> >
> >>On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:24:39 -0500, me6@privacy.net wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Question.....why no PPCS with a hard drive in them for
> >>>storage?
> >>
> >>It has a hard drive. The flavor of the hard drive is either
> >>Compact Flash or Secure Digital.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Most CF/SD memory is Solid State (memory chips) rather than a hard
drive-
> > although there is the IBM/Hitachi microdrive which is CF II (slightly
> > thicker than normal CF memory cards which are type I). There are other
ones
> > too- like the Magicstor- up to 4.4Gb now
> > http://www.gs-magicstor.com/english/product/product_a_0....
> > At the moment these are add-on cards, not built in.
> >
> >
> >
!