Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

I just bought X1600 did i goof?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
January 19, 2006 11:27:16 PM

Hey y'all i'm an avid gamer...but unfortunatly i'm on a fairly tight budget....and i just bought an x1600

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

If i could get some input on if i screwed up i would appreciate it =)

More about : bought x1600 goof

January 19, 2006 11:38:40 PM

I dont see anything wrong with it.
Especially for the price.
Yes it uses DDR2 but the memory interface is still 256bit.
Should perform fairly well.
January 20, 2006 12:19:06 AM

whats the rest of ur comps specs, and post ur 3dmark 05 score, mine is 3.Xk with

amd3700 754
1gb corsair xms 3-3-3-8 (wont boot in 2-3-3-6 GAY.)
x700pro AGP

im assuming that yours will be higher due to the fact that i have a 128 bit interface, it should be no lower than 4.5k if u have a decent proc and 1gb memory (my guess...)
Related resources
January 20, 2006 12:45:44 AM

I just placed Order for the card today currenty my system is

Ath 64 3000 socket 754
1 gig Corsair value select running at Cas 2.5 latency
ATI radion 9700 Pro 128 meg
in 3dmark03 i get 5344 3dmarks

as soon as i get new card i will run 3dmark06 and post results
...i just bought that new vid card with new motherbord for total of $200. I'm just hoping this will get my by until summer when i will have a $2000 budget for new computer.
January 20, 2006 12:47:33 AM

considering ur x1600 has 12 pipes, and 256 bit interface im sure it pwns mine, mine was 129 so u got a nice deal on that card, but then again its pci express and that shyt is so much cheaper than agp >:(  tell us how 3dmark06 goes, maybe ill upgrade to that card :p  (doubt it, not much of an upgrade)
January 20, 2006 2:09:07 AM

The x1600 has a 128-bit external memory bus. internally, it's 256-bit, but that's not nearly as good.

As far as gaming goes, for the same cash you probably would heve been better off with a 128-meg X800 GTO.

Right now it's not the best performing card and has quite a few performance glitches, but I have faith the X1600 drivers will be optimized more in the future. Plus the x1600 has the nifty DVD playback and encoding features, so it's a decent card if you've got an eye to the future and a love of video.
a b U Graphics card
January 20, 2006 12:45:47 PM

Quote:
The x1600 has a 128-bit external memory bus. internally, it's 256-bit, but that's not nearly as good.


Yeah this is going to create problems, I can see the arguments brewing alread. Anywhoo so be it...

The X1600 COULD support 256bit memory it's not limited by the core, however people are going to confuse the internal/external for quite some time. These cards do deserve 256/256. and the X1800 need 512/512, but the first won't happen until the X1700 and the second likely won't happen until the R600/G80 series.

Quote:
As far as gaming goes, for the same cash you probably would heve been better off with a 128-meg X800 GTO.


I agree but I wouldn't call it a bad choice, just that there is better for a little less.

Quote:
Right now it's not the best performing card and has quite a few performance glitches, but I have faith the X1600 drivers will be optimized more in the future. Plus the x1600 has the nifty DVD playback and encoding features, so it's a decent card if you've got an eye to the future and a love of video.


Yep, and one of the interesting revealing things about the X1600 series was it's power in shader heavy SM3.0 stuff in 3Dmk06. I still think it's going to be a slideshow, but a slightly faster one than a GF6800GS (which just prove that the GF7800 and X1800 are really the only cards to truely support high end SM3.0 features at a reasonable level). If there's optimizations to come that would be nice.

I'd say he got an OK deal, nothing bad, but not someting to brag about either, unless like you say he's into 2D video editing,etc.
January 31, 2006 3:03:02 PM

I've been looking for benches for the 256bit x1600. I think they added another mem channel so it's really 2x128 both ways not real a 256bit interface. All I can find is benches form it's release, old drivers and 128bit. have you ran any test on, it if so could you post? Thanks :D 
January 31, 2006 3:27:12 PM

There are no X1600's with a 256-bit external memory interface in existance, nor will there ever be.

If they ever do put a true 256-bit interface on it, they'll likely call it an X1700...
a b U Graphics card
January 31, 2006 11:39:08 PM

Quote:
I've been looking for benches for the 256bit x1600. I think they added another mem channel so it's really 2x128 both ways not real a 256bit interface. All I can find is benches form it's release, old drivers and 128bit. have you ran any test on, it if so could you post? Thanks :D 


You are thinking of internally.
Internally the ring-bus is bi-directional 128bit (thus effective 256bit), however it interacts with the memory at a 128bit bit level (although it's double pumped unlike the core).
February 1, 2006 12:15:16 AM

so basically theres almost no diff between 128 and 256 bit on that perticular card?
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 12:41:23 AM

Quote:
so basically theres almost no diff between 128 and 256 bit on that perticular card?


Depends on what you're trying to say.

The reason for the 2 128bit ring bus channels is so that it can match the DDR of the memory running at 128bit.

However there is a difference between the memory having a 128bit and 256bit interface. Despite that optimization/design, a 256bit memory interface without the fancy ring-bus would still be faster.

It's brute force over elegance. Elegance is nice, but it's better when it's found in an 800 pound Gorilla. 8)
February 1, 2006 2:42:50 AM

Im not understanding.
So is the memory interface of the 7800(just as a reference) a 256bit or double pumped 128bit like this x1600 being discussed?
February 1, 2006 2:46:20 AM

Well i just Ran 3dmark 03 and got 8600 marks
and in 3dmark 06 i got 1787 marks
system is as fallows

Ath 64 3000
1 gig value select corsair
Tul ati express 200 chipset MB
x1600 512 meg 256bit card
80 gig Western digital IDE 7200rpm 8 meg cache
Win XP service pack 2
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 3:15:12 AM

Quote:
Im not understanding.
So is the memory interface of the 7800(just as a reference) a 256bit or double pumped 128bit like this x1600 being discussed?


No the 'double pumped' is for the DDR memory, effectively a 400mhz chip is sending 800mhzx128bits of info to which may be 400mhz with the bi-directional ring bus depoending on the speed of the core/chip, thus equating the two, then it's further fed to the core's memory controller using 4 crossbars (I'm not sure if it 32 or 64 bit, bi-directional or not) operating @ the same clockrate as the core. The X1800/1900 have 8 crossbars.

The GF7800 doesn't use the ring technology and is direct 256bit from chip to core memory controller using half the bandwidth with the 4way crossbar at 64bit width, and since the core operates at 1:1 hz and the memory is 2:1 there might be some log-jams. I still don't understand all of it though as the efficiency still shows nowhere near the speed of simply OC'ing the memory, but it's likely got alot to do with how the memory is accessed, especially for seuential purposes. Supposedly the most important part was trace density, and running out of room without increasing temps.
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 3:44:20 AM

You might want to edit your sig, it's a 128bit card, 256bit chip.
February 1, 2006 12:11:27 PM

Heres some links http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681... andhttp://computing.kelkoo.co.uk/b/a/ps_15541931/111601.ht... like I said, i'm sure it's not a true 256, the core is still 128. this is the spec from connect 3d http://www.connect3d.com/products/pcie_x1600pro.htm.
I read this article at.http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28339 . rereading it ,I see the he's talking about the ring bus which was always 256. I wonder if this was shady marketing by ATIs partners :evil:  . I'm emailing ATI to get some facts, I'll post them when and if they send them. I think it's shitty that the same maker would sell the same item with two diffrent specs and no real change. It really got my hopes up :(  .
February 1, 2006 2:36:10 PM

Well it's not really entirely a marketing feature, having a 256-bit internal ring bus does offer some performance increases, it's just that you have to know the difference and pay attention to the specs.
February 1, 2006 3:46:11 PM

Quote:
I just placed Order for the card today currenty my system is

Ath 64 3000 socket 754
1 gig Corsair value select running at Cas 2.5 latency
ATI radion 9700 Pro 128 meg
in 3dmark03 i get 5344 3dmarks


Just a question, I didn't think any socket 754 boards supported PCIe :?:
February 1, 2006 6:59:52 PM

i thought the same thing, i have a 754 mobo with 8x agp and was conisdering getting a new mobo/proc for pci-express, but since i have a 3700+ i looked around for pci express and they had a few and there still priced pretty low, although they dont have a 754, agp/pci-express hybrid, at least i dun think... if anyone finds 1 plz send me a link :) 
February 3, 2006 3:01:32 PM



This is what that link gave me???

Computer Hardware > Motherboards > AMD-compatible Motherboards > north bridge : Intel 945P > paper tray capacity : 150 sheets :?:

I just looked for S754 and PCIx though and I see they are a lot of them. Shows what I know. :roll:
a b U Graphics card
February 3, 2006 3:35:35 PM

Quote:

I just looked for S754 and PCIx though and I see they are a lot of them. Shows what I know. :roll:


Just FYI, PCIx is not PCIe, PCIx is for raid, ethernet and such on workstation/server boards.

If anything you want PCI-EX
February 3, 2006 4:18:01 PM

As for socket 754 and PCI Express, yes, it is available. I have an Athlon 3700 running on an Asus with Nvidia Nforce 4x chipset (only one available for socket 754 and PCI Express). The only advabtage this board has that a standard AGP socket 754 board with 8X AGP is the ability to upgrade video. The MAIN problem with socket 754 is still there ---The dang memory controller limitation not allowing FSB of 400mhz if you use more than one stick of memory. So if you have a high end socket 754 cpu (3700) using the PCI Express board is fine and allows you to use the latest in graphic cards, but you still will be screwed by the memory limitation.
February 3, 2006 5:20:34 PM

no it should be ok for most games at medium setting
February 3, 2006 6:50:27 PM

memory bus of 400 is plenty fast? thats ddr400, or are u talking about somthing completly different? i dont overclock my cpu so it doesnt effect me, and since i physically cant overclock it because of my crap chaintech board the 754 seemed like a perfect cpu for me, although i didnt know about it not supporting dual channel until after i bought a gig of corsair xms :p  no matter tho, very nice ram. what makes the memory controller on 939 better? how high can its fsb go?
February 3, 2006 7:00:36 PM

Quote:
Just FYI, PCIx is not PCIe, PCIx is for raid, ethernet and such on workstation/server boards.

If anything you want PCI-EX


Ah, yes, I know! Typo! :p 
a b U Graphics card
February 3, 2006 7:03:23 PM

Quote:
As for socket 754 and PCI Express, yes, it is available... Nvidia Nforce 4x chipset (only one available for socket 754 and PCI Express).


BS! :roll:

Wow an ATi;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813190002

And a SIS MoBo;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813135002


http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=ENE&N=2000200022+70002076+70002885&Subcategory=22&description=&srchInDesc=&minPrice=&maxPrice=

The majority may still be nFs but not all, and definitely not exclusively.

However the ULTIMATE board is one I posted here EONs ago, and is still the upgrade KING (yes it is an nF board but there also were others a while back);

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813153035

Still #1 , the veritable SwissArmy knife of MoBos with everything in 1.
February 3, 2006 7:34:03 PM

quick question about that ati one, why is the fsb rated at 1000 (2000) when 754 runs at 800? was this a typo by newegg or does it overclock the fsb??
a b U Graphics card
February 3, 2006 7:58:20 PM

That's the HyperTransport.

There are 2 common speeds for the HT, 800/1600 and 1000/2000, the actual FSB of the proc is 200mhz. The HT is no longer dependant on the FSB as it was in older boards, at least that's my understanding of it.

Just notice one of the nFs with a 2000mhz HT;
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157084
February 3, 2006 8:27:39 PM

i still dont get it, the HT is 1000/2000 on the socket 754 board which is supposed to run at 800/1600 so does the mobo automatically overclock the HT to 1000? or does was it just cheaper to produce a HT of 1000 so they did that? ( seems that way since thats one of the cheapest 754 boards, even though it has an nvidia6100 chipset... btw is that a good chipset? ive been stuck to nforce just because its a well known chipset) i cant freakin decide whether i should upgrade my mobo to a pci express and get an x800xt or somthing around that speed (dont need a 7800gt, dont want to spend 300 on a card + 50 for a mobo)... so should i upgrade to pci express and get an x800xt with a board for about, i duno my guess is close to 300, or just get an x800xl AIW refurb from newegg for 209? i know pci express and agp are STILL similar in speeds, kinda like agp 4x is as fast as 8x just because it doesnt use all 8x speeds for most cards.. im thinkin bout risking it and going with the agp refurb x800xl and if it doesnt work just get ATI to send me a brand new 1, will they do that?
a b U Graphics card
February 3, 2006 8:36:40 PM

The HT actually has it's own multiplier 5xdouble-pumped or 4xdouble-pumped.

It's still the same FSB just chanign the multiplier on how fast the MoBo commmunicates internally. There are also S939s that runn with a 1600mhz HT (the NF4X).

The production cost isn't an issue now, but the initial boards were all just spec'ed for 1600mhz HT, then VIA released their AMD64 MoBos with a 2000mhz HT and suddently everyone needed those. IIRC all NF3s are 1600mhz, but I could be wrong?

I'm not sure which would be a better upgrade. for the choicesyou have specifically stated likely not to matter (you're not accesing new technology other than the PCIe itself), if it were a GF7800GT or X1800 upgrade then worth it. For this scenario it might be best to save your money (~$100) and then invest in a whole new system later when you NEED the new features.

As for the refurb, I don't think they'd send out a new board, in fact often warranty repairs are a case of them giving you a refurb for your now damagaed store bought retail-new board. Seems terrible, but that's the way most RMA replacements work.
February 3, 2006 8:46:55 PM

is there even a big difference between 1600 and 2000 HT? and yea, im trying to upgrade to an x800xt because i game at 1024 and a 7800 would be complete overkill for that res, im planning on buying a very expensive comp for college, which is in a lil under 2 years, so im hoping that an 800xt would hold me out until then... and so if u send in a retail card and they send back a refurb :p  whats the point in buying retail?
February 3, 2006 8:48:34 PM

blood do u mind telling me ur 3dmark 05 score? or any benchmark scores, also state what cpu u have and how much memory... id like to compare ur card to my similarly priced x700pro...
a b U Graphics card
February 3, 2006 9:20:34 PM

Quote:
is there even a big difference between 1600 and 2000 HT? and yea, im trying to upgrade to an x800xt because i game at 1024 and a 7800 would be complete overkill for that res, im planning on buying a very expensive comp for college, which is in a lil under 2 years, so im hoping that an 800xt would hold me out until then...


For that scenario it'd be fine. I might push you to consider a GF6800GS though if you're thinking that long term because you might, and I stress MIGHT see some developers going to an SM4.0, 3.0 and 1.1 model if they are part of the TWIMTBP group. Just a long LONG term thought. It shouldn't matter for '06, but maybe mid '07 you'll start to see a shift in paths because of fallbacks ease of coding concerns. Very very low priority consideration, but something to think about none the less.

EDIT: Although by mid-end '07 I would think the lowest part of the mid-entry level cards will likely be able to blow the socks off the cards, now, so by the time you might need it, it'd be worth just upgrading period, cause thoose games will likely sart to need dual+ core, and other stuff too.

Quote:
and so if u send in a retail card and they send back a refurb :p  whats the point in buying retail?


Because it's still a good card, and if you're sending back a retail card, it's no longer new either. However when you buy it by law they can't sell a sued card as new, so for sure you know it's never been Oc'd or messed with by anyone else. I like that fact that some n00b dind't just jam it in and think his card could be oc'ed from a GF6800LE to GF6800Ultra in one push of the sliders.
February 3, 2006 9:47:08 PM

well the reason why i havnt bought a 6800gs is cauese i dun wanna have to reinstall windows for a decent performance jump... although the 6800gs supports shader 3.0 x700pro support 2.1 which is still very popular, and the 6800gs, although pretty powerful cant really handle 3.0 as well as say a 7800gtx, its kinda pointless to get a gs for 3.0 because it cant run at playable fps... from waht i hear at least :p 
February 8, 2006 11:41:41 PM

yea thats the thing though, ive seen boards like that... the reviews say they dont work... theres little to no info on the web, the list of cards taht work is small and my x700 pro isnt on the one i was interested in buying, kinda big pain in the ass just to get an outdated mobo :/ 
February 9, 2006 6:33:17 AM

From what I've read, the X1600 will crush my GF 6600GT.
February 9, 2006 10:14:01 AM

i would not bother with a X1600 line you will only have to replace it in 9months time approx.

You should have saved and brought a X800XT/X850XT/X1800xl or XT or a 7800gt (the 7800gt being the best bang for buck in my opnion at the moment look at my benchie and then look at cleeves, my card was cheaper but still beats him) everything else looks like a waste of money at the moment if you are into games if your not then your choice is fine.
a b U Graphics card
February 9, 2006 10:42:03 PM

Quote:
Where are you reading this? From what I've read it barely outperforms the Gt is some benches and gets beat in others. Like this one:

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODIy


Did you actually READ the review you linked to?

First it's not a plain X1600 it's an X1600XT, just to clear that up first. Second that review shows the X1600XT matching/exceeding the GF6800OC's performance, and far outperforming the GF6600GT in most tests; it can only must the tie in D3 and the bizarre (even to [H] staff) win in MFSU2, where it beats the faster GF6800OC as well. Every other test the X1600XT is comparable to the GF6800OC, and well above the GF6600GT. Perhaps you're unfamiliar with [H]'s methods, but the framerates are for different settings and out of all the games testes the X1600XT allows higher settings (either resolution or AA) than the GF6600GT.

I fit's just the plain X1600 you want to compare, then I'd agree it's not up to the task of tackling a GF6600GT unless severly overclocked, however an X1600XT will dominate a GFG6600GT in tha majority of games, and based on the result I've read, I'd say the X1600Pro would outperform in those situations as well.

IMO, X1600 < GF6600GT < X1600Pro=GF6800 < X800=GF6800OC < X1600XT

There's alot more to fill the blanks including the rare GF6600GT-256, but I would say that pretty well describes the current situation. Maybe throw the X700Pro in between the plain X1600 and the GF6600GT.
February 9, 2006 11:21:38 PM

GGA where can i buy a X700pro from? lol
February 9, 2006 11:46:39 PM

Quote:
GGA where can i buy a X700pro from? lol


compusa had a sale for 129 for the ati one :)  its the one i bought, newegg tho of course will have it for similar prices! if not, then check zipzoomfly!
February 10, 2006 8:55:07 AM

Walking away slowly maybe no one will notice.

LOL yes i goofed up big time. :oops: 
February 10, 2006 1:52:03 PM

Quote:
Where are you reading this? From what I've read it barely outperforms the Gt is some benches and gets beat in others. Like this one:

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=ODIy


Did you actually READ the review you linked to?


Well, not the whole thing. :oops:  I read this statement though "The Radeon X1600 XT does a little better though. We did see some blows being traded back and forth between the Radeon X1600 XT and the GeForce 6800, but, for the most part, the card shined in the newer games"

I guess I do need glasses! I'll STFU now. :roll:
a b U Graphics card
February 10, 2006 4:50:58 PM

It's all good in the hood folks, no need to do anything.

No worries, just grumpy at the end of the day yesterday.

But today is FRIDAY, I go skiing and play hockey tomorrow, and the Olympics start today. It's a very good day.
!