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Beginner-Question about this watercooling kit

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January 20, 2006 12:36:27 AM

On my next pc build i plan to switch from air to liquid cooling. Im looking at the swiftech kit here, http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-wat-76.html. Im planning on building a system around the AMD X2 4800 with 2 Geforce 7800GTs in SLi. My question is, is this kit good enough to let me overclock a bit, and will i be able 2 ad 2 vga waterblocks to this kit without restricting flow too much? If this kit wont do the job im open to suggestions. Also looking on suggestions on which vga block/blocks to use. Thanks!
January 20, 2006 1:04:33 AM

that link is messed...
January 20, 2006 1:22:42 AM

weird, well its the Swiftech H20-APEX "ULTRA" Series Liquid Cooling Kit on frozencpu.com
Related resources
January 20, 2006 2:00:20 AM

If you want the best of every world, do a custum setup. Though swiftech make some very nice setups compared to others like thermaltake, corsair, koolance, etc. If you want a list of parts I'm going to need to know what case you have and what you want specifically out of the setup. Things like how much you want to overclock, how quiet you want it, how much money you plan on spending, are things I can help with.
January 20, 2006 2:10:47 AM

its not that good of a kit (i assume its the one with the apogee block) go get the "heavy duty" or something... the one with teh storm waterblock
January 20, 2006 2:20:04 AM

we to start off thanks for the help in advance! The case im looking at is found here: http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/2005/xaserCase/armor/va80... the case has alot of room inside and is designed to work with the thermaltake bigwater kit, but any water kit can easily be applied to it. Im new to overclocking but i want to start so i guess i will only be ocing by a couple hundred mhz. the amd 4800 x2 comes stock at 2.4ghz so if i could get it up to 2.6 or 2,8 even that would be plenty. I will also be cooling 2 7800gts so the kit will need to be able to support to vga waterblocks as well. I guess noise isnt that big of a factor, and as far as price goes probably $300 at the most.
January 20, 2006 2:41:08 AM

The Swiftech H20-APEX "Extreme Duty" with the storm waterblock was discontinued and replaced with the "ultra" kit. I guess ill have to buy the storm separate, i read that the apogee and storm blocks perfrom amost equally but the storm is slightly better.
January 20, 2006 2:58:15 AM

$300 can get you a nice setup. The storm block like shawn mentioned is probably your best bet. Your case is pretty nice, at least you didn't go with the shark, they suck poopy. As you can tell, I have one, and yes, I deficate in it to improve on its design. Enough about my shitty case.
I'm sure if you do a little overclocking now and get settled with it, you'll want more, they always want more. The only problem with your case is it doesnt have the greatest intake to outake ratio it should have; however, you can get around that easily. Take a look at sidewindercomputers.com for some looking. Panaflo fans are the best, medium should be good. The Storm block and the cheaper gpu blocks from sidewinder should do. 2 Black Ice dual pros and custom shrouds. I would look for pumps off of the computer sites, at least the last time I went cooling shopping, that was ideal. If mozzy happens to stop in, he will be of much more help than me. I'm sure if you dropped the panaflo fans for some rickedy ones, save $15. You could also go with two Black Ice Extreme single radiators, save money on two of the fans (save $15). I would spend a little over the $300 now so you can get the whole setup instead of doing one setup at a time. The cooling equipment doesn't really follow technology economics trade to well so buy and selling now won't be much different in a couple months. I'd try to get a hold of mozzartusm if I were you. He hasn't been too actively lately, but it wouldn't hurt asking for him.
January 20, 2006 3:07:12 AM

Im Also A Newb When It Comes To Liquid Cooling And I Also Plan On Upgrading To The 2.2GHz Dual-Core Opteron Soon Along With This Liquid Cooling Kit..... http://www.xoxide.com/thermaltake-tide-water-cl-w0052.h... And Im Gonna Modify It With A CPU Water-Block And Some Clear Tubing (Will Look Great In My Acrylic Case w/Blue LED Fans) (I Plan On Using It To Overclock The CPU (Opteron) Not The GPU Thats Why Im Modifying It) Im Gonna Use The With Kit Blue-Dyed Mineral Oil For Coolant. But I Need A Water Block Reccomended To Me. Any Suggestions?
January 20, 2006 3:20:31 AM

apogee doesn't even come close to the storm... its basically a redesigned mcw5000 which isn't designed for high performance, but for high flow.
January 20, 2006 7:47:52 PM

Is it better to go with 2 good radiators or 1 really good one? ex: 2 black ice extremes vs. 1 extreme III. Also how big of a resivior do i need and what type of coolant works best with a high flow/high performance setup?
January 20, 2006 9:39:44 PM

I would prefer them to be internal, so either one good one, or two smaller ones, whichever fits the best in the case.
January 21, 2006 3:03:39 AM

Remove the rear 120mm exaust fan, and replace it the the radiator and fan blowing outward.
Or install it in the top blowhole blowing upwards, my choice ;) .
January 22, 2006 5:33:54 PM

Is it better to go with one radiator or 2? I was thinking of going with this setup: tank-pump-BI exteme III-cpu-BI Extreme Pro-gpu-gpu-back to tank. Please correct me if this is wrong im newbie so i guessed a little bit. I guess my other option would only involve one radiator so which would be better?
January 22, 2006 11:53:42 PM

That would work just fine, or you could isolate the sytems so each GPU/CPU has its own radiator and pump. That is how I probably would expand.
January 23, 2006 12:22:23 AM

how would i go about doing that?
January 23, 2006 12:38:52 AM

Two radiators and two pumps, one for CPU one for GPU.
ThermalTake has a self contained water cooled GPU cooler for use with its BigWaterSE or another single radiator system user that wants to add GPU cooling.
January 23, 2006 2:01:33 AM

I dont want to spend money one two pumps so i think im gunna go with a one pump two radiator setup.
January 23, 2006 2:20:40 AM

I have a question, if i go with two radiators my rear exhaust port will be taken up by the BI pro and a 120mm fan, so where im i supposed to put the BI extreme III and its 3 fans??
January 23, 2006 2:44:43 AM

If your gonna OC dont waste your money on the 4800+ either, get an opteron 170 for half the cash and use the rest to get at least 2Gig of ram and a good water kit.

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January 23, 2006 2:22:46 PM

The equivlant to the X2-4800 is the Opteron 175, not the 170
January 23, 2006 9:31:38 PM

the bix3 is more than enough... plus, the bip doesn't really add any performance. infact, running two radiators would only boost your performance by .5 degrees MAX. when the water runs through the first radiator, it cools down and looses delta with the ambient temp. this causes the second radiator to loose efficiency on heat transfer. just stick with one bix3, bip3 or PA120.3(my choice).
January 23, 2006 10:08:10 PM

Quote:
The equivlant to the X2-4800 is the Opteron 175, not the 170


No where in my statement did I say it was the equivlant, I just said get it instead. The 165 will do almost as high of an OC but requires fanceir ram (or reduced memory ratios) but can save you even more cash. The 170 will usually go as high as any other Dual core AMD and for less money than the 175 or 180. I said this will be just about half as much...

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January 23, 2006 10:27:54 PM

Im Also Going Into Liquid Cooling, When I Get My Taxes Back, Im Planning On Using Mineral Oil As A Coolant... Sounds Like Fun :lol: 
January 24, 2006 12:33:35 AM

Will a Swiftech "mirco" reservoir be big enough for a high flow high performance setup like the one im looking at (high flow pump with storm cpu block and 2 gpu blocks)?
January 24, 2006 1:29:30 AM

I disagree, he was planning on running from rad 1 to cpu then to rad2 then to GPU then to pump and back to rad 1,
Pretty efficient if you ask me, and better than a splitter from rad to each chip, putting a load on the 1 rad. Only thing better would be seperating the systems using another pump, which he could upgrade later and have two independent cooling systems.
January 24, 2006 1:47:17 AM

okay

1)adding a second radiator isn't going to do much to the temperature especially when its a really small one like the bip

2)when he does upgrade, i doubt a bip will handle 2 gpus
January 24, 2006 3:21:40 AM

What if i add a black Ice extreme II to cool the gpus instead of just the pro? Then i run into the problem of finding a place for that huge BI Extreme III in my case, since the rear exhaust will be taken up by the xtreme II.
January 24, 2006 5:19:49 AM

this is why you run one bix3... which is more than enough for your loop
January 24, 2006 12:52:51 PM

Can i mount the bi xtreme III onto my rear exhaust?
January 24, 2006 1:42:50 PM

Using a Thermochill PA120.2 or .3 with a mid-level output fan will be more effective in this loop, and have room for growth. The Thermochills offer equal or less air restriction to a BIP, but the performance or more of a BIX 2 pass.

Use the Swiftech mounting bracket on back will mount a two fan easily, and 3 fan by placing in mid-position.

If not overclocking, a 2 fan rad will be adequate, even for 2 gpu's in the loop, depending on the ambient temps. Choice of rad, and fans, has more effect then 2 or 3 fan units... a good 2 fan unit will out perform a 3 fan unit if type of core and output of fans aren't optimized!

BIX or Thermochill HE120.x both require fans that output 100+cfm to work properly! Do you want ultimate cooling at the expense of noise, or a quieter expirience being able to use BIP or PA120.x and lower cfm fans with less noise?

I know, choices, choices!
January 24, 2006 2:16:24 PM

Quote:
Will a Swiftech "mirco" reservoir be big enough for a high flow high performance setup like the one im looking at (high flow pump with storm cpu block and 2 gpu blocks)?

Any reservoir you get is never big enough...
The more coolant you have available in a system, the better the performance, since the holding tank will also act as a heat exchanger, not to mention the fact that it lenghtens the time any given volume of water has between trips to the heat-source...
I recall seeing a case where someone used a couple of 5gal buckets in place of a radiator, and another where someone got an all-copper car radiator and modded it to fit his system. When you've got a couple gallons of coolant to work with, it will be difficult for a PC to cause a major fluctuation in the system temp...

The real reason for a reservoir is to allow for a longer replenishment cycle. I have an (old) H2O-8501 kit on my Athlon 1.4 and after only a few days of continuous uptime, enough evaporation had taken place that air was cycling in the system. I replaced the FBK with a Typhoon dual-bay tank, and the cycle was extended to at least a year (after 6mo, the running-water noise can be annoying ;)  )

The only drawback to water-cooling a system is the addition of all the tubing. Even with a full-tower case ( In-Win Q500 ) and sleeved/round IDE cables, it's still really cramped in there!

It is nice to see that Swiftech is including their Coolsleeves with the kits now--kinking was a big problem in the 8501 after a day of circulating 45C coolant...
January 24, 2006 2:22:25 PM

Heya Pokemon, I am in Minnesota too, and when I upgrade my system here in a few months, I am going water cooling as well, and can use any help I can get. Especially from someone close to home if you know what I mean.

Tired of fans, and my midtowers lack of air flow. Right now I am running a 200 mm portable fan into my case, keeps the peak at 45c, the idle is a nice 34c.

Either way I might use Danger Den or a premade kit from another manufacturer, but I am going water cool.
January 24, 2006 6:16:30 PM

I think i will go with the BI xtreme III and mount it on the rear exhaust. I also think ill go with the typhoon dual bay resivoir. As for tubing goes does anyone have any suggestions on what type/ brand of tubing to use?
January 24, 2006 7:17:25 PM

Tygon seems to be one the most preferred, if you don't mind working with a thicker outerwall, thus larger tubing. However, it IS the most expensive. Masterkleer comes in second.

Many are now using the 7/16" ID hoses for their 1/2" setups. The ID more closely matches the ID of the barbs, and forms a tighter seal to the barb, without excessive effort to insert the barbs.

There are a number of different types of tubing: vinyl (Tygon, Masterklear, Clearflex), PVC (Primoflex), silicone.
January 24, 2006 7:26:30 PM

yeah i think im gunna go with the 7/16" size. thanks for the heads up on some good brands.
January 24, 2006 7:31:45 PM

As far as coolant goes, should i use distilled water with additives, or will something like primochill pc ice work also?
January 24, 2006 8:26:43 PM

Most go with distilled water and a 5-10% additive. Many of the so-called fluids are nothing more then snake oil... though I few do have merit as far as their non-conductivness. Warning, many specialty fluids can clog high restriction blocks over time.
January 25, 2006 2:43:19 AM

primochill pc ice boasts non-conductiveness, within 2 degress celcius of regular water, lubricating properties, corrosive inhibiting ingredients to cut down on internal build up and galvanic corrosion, formulated for high flow pumps, 2-5 degree gain in thermal efficiency, plus its uv reactive. It doesnt sound too bad to me.
January 25, 2006 12:48:10 PM

Don't read the "ad" search the net for reviews done, or forum threads, by reliable sites that specialize in cooling, or just their recommendations. ie: System Cooling, Xtreme Systems, Overclockers Australia, and Procooling are just a few.

Distilled water has the best ability to gather heat. Other fluids can move the freeze/boil temps one way or the other, but still are not as conductive as water.

Lubricating properties... pumps are designed to operate in water with no additives... unless otherwise noted. Most have no shaft seals and are mag driven today, thus eliminating the major source of friction and leaking expirienced some years past.

Viscousity will be higher, thus increasing work load on pump, and friction within circuit, resulting in a higher heat dump into fluid. Grant you it will be minimal, but it is not taking away heat.

Remember, we are talking about water cooling; not exotic, below ambient cooling.

I'll give them the UV properties for the bling... but some manufactures of water cooling components will void your warranty if they are used.
January 25, 2006 7:30:18 PM

So just plain distilled water with the "necessary" aditives is best i guess. I will play it safe and use distilled water with swiftech hydrx additive, and a little uv blue die for color.
January 25, 2006 7:38:26 PM

Quote:
I will play it safe and use distilled water with swiftech hydrx additive, and a little uv blue die for color.


Bare in mind that "Hydrx is GREEN in color! Some anti-freezes are blue or red in color..a 10% solution will be enough to protect against electrolysis, corrosion, and algae growth. Some swear by "water-wetter", but it stinks, litterly! Others use Zerex racing additive. I believe the Audi purple additive is highly reguarded... but it's price will bankrupt you!
January 25, 2006 9:08:58 PM

Major Error, do ya got a picture of the Typhoon Dual bay? It dont seem to be to big, I was thinkin of something a bit bigger...

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January 25, 2006 9:42:25 PM

Quote:
do ya got a picture of the Typhoon Dual bay? It dont seem to be to big, I was thinkin of something a bit bigger...


Good Idea Here
January 25, 2006 10:15:28 PM

So all i have to do is add 10% of any kind of antifreeze and that takes care of everything including algae growth?
January 26, 2006 12:09:25 AM

Yup, any quality one!
January 26, 2006 1:20:09 AM

sweet thanks for the info!
January 26, 2006 1:35:49 AM

ah makes more sense, I was thinking it was dual 3.5" bays...
January 26, 2006 2:01:42 AM

http://www.voyeurmods.com/index.php?action=item&id=1114...

What ya think about that tank? They have this one and one that is thinner for cases with less room. I was DREWLING over their pre made Aspire Xpaq cause...till I seen 299 and they've removed the 420W psu that normally comes with it...wtf? Its only a $100 case with PSU. 200 more and they take the psu out? Give me a break...

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January 26, 2006 2:29:20 AM

I really like that typhoon dual bay reservoir. I also couldn't stop drooling over the uv blue swiftech storm i seen on that site also. :D 
!