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Passenger power!

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Anonymous
April 4, 2005 1:46:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4407767.stm

More about : passenger power

April 4, 2005 10:49:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Take-off was aborted three times after the plane refueled en route from
Bangkok. "

What?... what does that mean? Doesn't make any sense. What happened three
times.


Dallas
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 12:48:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:m%f4e.196$yq6.176@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>
> "Take-off was aborted three times after the plane refueled en route from
> Bangkok. "
>
> What?... what does that mean? Doesn't make any sense. What happened
> three
> times.
>
>
> Dallas
>
>
>
>
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4407767.stm
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Anonymous
April 5, 2005 2:27:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Steve P" <someone@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:D 2s969$s1q$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
> news:m%f4e.196$yq6.176@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>
>> "Take-off was aborted three times after the plane refueled en route from
>> Bangkok. "
>>
>> What?... what does that mean? Doesn't make any sense. What happened
>> three
>> times.
>>
>>
>> Dallas
>>
>>
>>
>>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4407767.stm
>
So "Are passengers really qualified to know what's going on?"
That was a quote from a sales and marketing manager!!

What would folks here have done seeing fuel pouring from a wing?

Chris
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 2:27:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Depends where it's coming from and how much is leaking.

I've overfilled tanks in a Cessna and when the fuel expanded on a hot
day it came gushing out the drain vent. The only thing going thru my
mind was how much money was being spilled on the ground :-(

But the person yelling 'fire' should definitely be prosecuted!!
As for the engineer going 'white' - that may be passenger or media
hype. Maybe not - we'll never know.

-=tom=-

>What would folks here have done seeing fuel pouring from a wing?
>
>Chris
>
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 4:00:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:49:54 GMT, Dallas wrote:

> "Take-off was aborted three times after the plane refueled en route from
> Bangkok. "
>
> What?... what does that mean? Doesn't make any sense. What happened three
> times.

I think that means what is says.
I'm thinking the pax went nuts during those three take-offs and the Captain
aborted all three times.

Heck...I say Phuket!
;-)

--

Marcel
(You've got clearance, Clarence. Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?)
April 5, 2005 4:00:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Marcel Kuijper"
> I think that means what is says.
> I'm thinking the pax went nuts during those three take-offs and the
Captain
> aborted all three times.

OK... in slow motion...

The pilot begins the take off roll and hears everybody going crazy in the
cabin. He shuts down and rolls off the runway, turns and proceeds back to
the take off threshold.

He calls the tower and gets clearance and begins a take off roll. He hears
everybody going crazy in the cabin again. Again, he shuts down and rolls
off the runway, turns and proceeds back to the take off threshold.

He calls the tower and gets clearance and begins the take off roll again.
Again, he hears everybody going crazy in the cabin so he shuts down and
rolls off the runway.

How does that make sense?

Varmit
April 5, 2005 4:00:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

What if you looked out the window, and saw a little gremlin on the
wing...and the little gremlin was doing something to destroy an engine. You
told the flight attendant and she didn't see anything on the wing, but you
did. You saw the little gremlin looking at you, and then pull the cowling
off the engine. Everyone you told to look out the window, didn't see the
gremlin and thought you were nuts. You were so incensed, you broke the
window of the aircraft to stop the gremlin from taking apart the motor (it
was an old airplane circa l960 or so).

The gremlin kept working on the plane, trying to get into the engine but you
were the only one to see it and no one would believe you. The gremlin even
came up to the window and looked in at you. By this time, you're going nuts
and the other passengers thought you were crazy.

Finally, the plane landed and the passengers deplaned. You walked around
the front of the aircraft and sure enough, the cowlings were ripped back
from two of the engines on your side of the plane.

This was the plot of a Twilight Zone program and the passenger who saw the
gremlin was William Shatner I believe. Anyone remember this episode?? It
is a classic.

Arthur
"Marcel Kuijper" <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:14tsb528uwvu0$.45gqyh9ip6b8$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:49:54 GMT, Dallas wrote:
>
>> "Take-off was aborted three times after the plane refueled en route from
>> Bangkok. "
>>
>> What?... what does that mean? Doesn't make any sense. What happened
>> three
>> times.
>
> I think that means what is says.
> I'm thinking the pax went nuts during those three take-offs and the
> Captain
> aborted all three times.
>
> Heck...I say Phuket!
> ;-)
>
> --
>
> Marcel
> (You've got clearance, Clarence. Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?)
April 5, 2005 4:00:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I'm not sure if pilots still refer to glitches in their engines and other
systems as 'gremlins' any longer but they did when this Twilight Zone was
shown circa 1960.

"Arthur" <alspectorz@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:xcKdnc5GA6xwSczfRVn-ig@rogers.com...
> What if you looked out the window, and saw a little gremlin on the
> wing...and the little gremlin was doing something to destroy an engine.
> You told the flight attendant and she didn't see anything on the wing, but
> you did. You saw the little gremlin looking at you, and then pull the
> cowling off the engine. Everyone you told to look out the window, didn't
> see the gremlin and thought you were nuts. You were so incensed, you
> broke the window of the aircraft to stop the gremlin from taking apart the
> motor (it was an old airplane circa l960 or so).
>
> The gremlin kept working on the plane, trying to get into the engine but
> you were the only one to see it and no one would believe you. The gremlin
> even came up to the window and looked in at you. By this time, you're
> going nuts and the other passengers thought you were crazy.
>
> Finally, the plane landed and the passengers deplaned. You walked around
> the front of the aircraft and sure enough, the cowlings were ripped back
> from two of the engines on your side of the plane.
>
> This was the plot of a Twilight Zone program and the passenger who saw the
> gremlin was William Shatner I believe. Anyone remember this episode?? It
> is a classic.
>
> Arthur
> "Marcel Kuijper" <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:14tsb528uwvu0$.45gqyh9ip6b8$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:49:54 GMT, Dallas wrote:
>>
>>> "Take-off was aborted three times after the plane refueled en route from
>>> Bangkok. "
>>>
>>> What?... what does that mean? Doesn't make any sense. What happened
>>> three
>>> times.
>>
>> I think that means what is says.
>> I'm thinking the pax went nuts during those three take-offs and the
>> Captain
>> aborted all three times.
>>
>> Heck...I say Phuket!
>> ;-)
>>
>> --
>>
>> Marcel
>> (You've got clearance, Clarence. Roger, Roger. What's our vector,
>> Victor?)
>
>
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 4:02:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 22:27:14 +0100, Chris Curtis wrote:

> What would folks here have done seeing fuel pouring from a wing?

Well I wouldn't have screamed or yelled, but I might have informed one of
the flight attendants that there just might be a fuel leak and ask that
person to inform the Captain that he might want to check his fuel gauges
just to be sure.

But when one person screams "FIRE!", just try and calm everyone else down.

--

Marcel
(When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the
earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been,
and there you will always long to return. - Leonardo da Vinci)
April 5, 2005 7:50:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Arthur"
> This was the plot of a Twilight Zone program and the passenger who saw the
> gremlin was William Shatner I believe. Anyone remember this episode?? It
> is a classic.

I remember *both* of them... classics.

Nightmare at 20,000 Feet
http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/GuidePageServlet/s...

Dallas
April 5, 2005 12:31:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas, you are one very resourceful varmint!!! Many thanks for bringing
that website to my attention.

Arthur

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:NVn4e.704$yq6.137@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Arthur"
>> This was the plot of a Twilight Zone program and the passenger who saw
>> the
>> gremlin was William Shatner I believe. Anyone remember this episode??
>> It
>> is a classic.
>
> I remember *both* of them... classics.
>
> Nightmare at 20,000 Feet
> http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/GuidePageServlet/s...
>
> Dallas
>
>
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 3:08:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:Urk4e.503$An2.483@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Marcel Kuijper"
>> I think that means what is says.
>> I'm thinking the pax went nuts during those three take-offs and the
> Captain
>> aborted all three times.
>
> OK... in slow motion...
>
> The pilot begins the take off roll and hears everybody going crazy in the
> cabin. He shuts down and rolls off the runway, turns and proceeds back to
> the take off threshold.
>
> He calls the tower and gets clearance and begins a take off roll. He
> hears
> everybody going crazy in the cabin again. Again, he shuts down and rolls
> off the runway, turns and proceeds back to the take off threshold.
>
> He calls the tower and gets clearance and begins the take off roll again.
> Again, he hears everybody going crazy in the cabin so he shuts down and
> rolls off the runway.
>
> How does that make sense?
>
> Varmit
>
>
You're right; it doesn't!
What it tells me is that there was a strong possibility of a lack of
communication between crew and passengers.
That said, if leaking fuel does not present a problem, an average, non
technical but sound minded individual would take some persuasion to be
convinced of that!

Chris
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 9:39:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I remember that vividly. I had nightmares for a week after it... eeekkk..

Arthur wrote:
> What if you looked out the window, and saw a little gremlin on the
> wing...and the little gremlin was doing something to destroy an engine. You
> told the flight attendant and she didn't see anything on the wing, but you
> did. You saw the little gremlin looking at you, and then pull the cowling
> off the engine. Everyone you told to look out the window, didn't see the
> gremlin and thought you were nuts. You were so incensed, you broke the
> window of the aircraft to stop the gremlin from taking apart the motor (it
> was an old airplane circa l960 or so).
>
> The gremlin kept working on the plane, trying to get into the engine but you
> were the only one to see it and no one would believe you. The gremlin even
> came up to the window and looked in at you. By this time, you're going nuts
> and the other passengers thought you were crazy.
>
> Finally, the plane landed and the passengers deplaned. You walked around
> the front of the aircraft and sure enough, the cowlings were ripped back
> from two of the engines on your side of the plane.
>
> This was the plot of a Twilight Zone program and the passenger who saw the
> gremlin was William Shatner I believe. Anyone remember this episode?? It
> is a classic.
>
> Arthur
> "Marcel Kuijper" <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:14tsb528uwvu0$.45gqyh9ip6b8$.dlg@40tude.net...
>
>>On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:49:54 GMT, Dallas wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Take-off was aborted three times after the plane refueled en route from
>>>Bangkok. "
>>>
>>>What?... what does that mean? Doesn't make any sense. What happened
>>>three
>>>times.
>>
>>I think that means what is says.
>>I'm thinking the pax went nuts during those three take-offs and the
>>Captain
>>aborted all three times.
>>
>>Heck...I say Phuket!
>>;-)
>>
>>--
>>
>>Marcel
>>(You've got clearance, Clarence. Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?)
>
>
>

--


Life is a toilet bowl...
With regular flushing it stays clean....
Linux user #251744...
http://www.spreadfirefox.com/?q=user/register&r=26885
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 3:45:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 23:53:24 GMT, Dallas wrote:

<snip>

> How does that make sense?

It doesn't, of course.
The PIC should have dealt with it after the first abort.

Having a member of his crew find out what all the commotion was about would
have been top priority right after the first abort.
Maybe a quick walk-around might have been in order. The next thing I would
do, had I been the PIC, would be to use the PA-system to inform the
passengers that there is nothing to be alarmed about.

--

Marcel
(That's no moon...it's a space station!)
April 6, 2005 5:56:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Marcel Kuijper"
> The next thing I would
> do, had I been the PIC, would be to use the PA-system to inform the
> passengers that there is nothing to be alarmed about.

Yeah that's what they told the tenants in the South Tower after the North
Tower got hit.

Don't ever listen to someone over a PA system.

Dallas
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 1:51:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:VkH4e.1668$yq6.1530@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Marcel Kuijper"
>> The next thing I would
>> do, had I been the PIC, would be to use the PA-system to inform the
>> passengers that there is nothing to be alarmed about.
>
> Yeah that's what they told the tenants in the South Tower after the North
> Tower got hit.
>
> Don't ever listen to someone over a PA system.
>
> Dallas
>
Well I think the pompous statement from the Sales & Marketing Manager (!)
saying 'what do passengers know' was a splendid piece of PR! I know I would
have created hell and while shouting 'fire' might be abit over the top if
that what was needed to get a response (which was clearly lacking up till
then) then so be it.
So was the spilling fuel dangerous? Is there no instrumentation alerting
crew to this. And surely the fueling crew should have noticed? You soon know
if you have overfilled your car!

Chris
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 12:31:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 01:56:05 GMT, Dallas wrote:

> "Marcel Kuijper"
>> The next thing I would
>> do, had I been the PIC, would be to use the PA-system to inform the
>> passengers that there is nothing to be alarmed about.
>
> Yeah that's what they told the tenants in the South Tower after the North
> Tower got hit.

Now now...I think someone needs to take a little nap. ;-)


> Don't ever listen to someone over a PA system.

I'll remember that tomorrow at work when someone uses the PA system to call
me back to the office.

--

Marcel
(There's no such thing as a natural-born pilot. - Chuck Yeager)
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 2:23:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:SfmdnVFFVexnP87fRVnyiA@pipex.net...
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
> news:VkH4e.1668$yq6.1530@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "Marcel Kuijper"
>>> The next thing I would
>>> do, had I been the PIC, would be to use the PA-system to inform the
>>> passengers that there is nothing to be alarmed about.
>>
>> Yeah that's what they told the tenants in the South Tower after the North
>> Tower got hit.
>>
>> Don't ever listen to someone over a PA system.
>>
>> Dallas
>>
> Well I think the pompous statement from the Sales & Marketing Manager (!)
> saying 'what do passengers know' was a splendid piece of PR! I know I
> would have created hell and while shouting 'fire' might be abit over the
> top if that what was needed to get a response (which was clearly lacking
> up till then) then so be it.
> So was the spilling fuel dangerous? Is there no instrumentation alerting
> crew to this. And surely the fueling crew should have noticed? You soon
> know if you have overfilled your car!
>
> Chris

It is significantly different to your car Chris - the ground crew would may
well have overflowed the wing tanks but the surplus is taken up by the surge
tanks which are located in the wing tips.These surge tanks vent to
atmosphere.

During the takeoff roll the surge tanks are designed to accomodate the
movement of fuel during acceleration. However if the surge tanks are not
empty at the start of the roll then it is likely that the surge tank will
vent fuel. It was this venting that alarmed the passengers.

While undesirable it is not considered a dangerous practice

John.
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 2:23:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"John Ewing" <none@needed> wrote in message
news:4253d4a2$0$5398$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:SfmdnVFFVexnP87fRVnyiA@pipex.net...
>> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
>> news:VkH4e.1668$yq6.1530@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>> "Marcel Kuijper"
>>>> The next thing I would
>>>> do, had I been the PIC, would be to use the PA-system to inform the
>>>> passengers that there is nothing to be alarmed about.
>>>
>>> Yeah that's what they told the tenants in the South Tower after the
>>> North
>>> Tower got hit.
>>>
>>> Don't ever listen to someone over a PA system.
>>>
>>> Dallas
>>>
>> Well I think the pompous statement from the Sales & Marketing Manager (!)
>> saying 'what do passengers know' was a splendid piece of PR! I know I
>> would have created hell and while shouting 'fire' might be abit over the
>> top if that what was needed to get a response (which was clearly lacking
>> up till then) then so be it.
>> So was the spilling fuel dangerous? Is there no instrumentation alerting
>> crew to this. And surely the fueling crew should have noticed? You soon
>> know if you have overfilled your car!
>>
>> Chris
>
> It is significantly different to your car Chris - the ground crew would
> may well have overflowed the wing tanks but the surplus is taken up by the
> surge tanks which are located in the wing tips.These surge tanks vent to
> atmosphere.
>
> During the takeoff roll the surge tanks are designed to accomodate the
> movement of fuel during acceleration. However if the surge tanks are not
> empty at the start of the roll then it is likely that the surge tank will
> vent fuel. It was this venting that alarmed the passengers.
>
> While undesirable it is not considered a dangerous practice
>
> John.
>

Thanks John.
I'll keep quiet if I see it happen!

Chris
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 3:11:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Chris Curtis" <newsgroup@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:NNCdndWJwv2uLMzfRVnygg@pipex.net...
> So "Are passengers really qualified to know what's going on?"
> That was a quote from a sales and marketing manager!!
>
> What would folks here have done seeing fuel pouring from a wing?

Well, if it was an F-4, I'd yell to the fuel truck driver "that's
enough" and I'd yell to the aircrew "let's go!" <G>

Earl

--
Earl Needham
Clovis, New Mexico USA
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 3:58:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 09:46:41 +0100, "Chris Curtis" <chris@nospam.net>
wrote:

>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4407767.stm
>

I heard today that the same plane had to return to its take off
airport (LHR, I think) because of a hydraulic problem with its gear.

James
!