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Question for European online pilots

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Anonymous
April 10, 2005 6:30:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

When you file a flightplan in SB3 and it asks for your cruise-alt in feet
ASL, how do you deal with this?

I have this feeling that the controllers will use the Metric system.

--

Marcel
(That's no moon...it's a space station!)
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 6:30:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 10-Apr-2005, Marcel Kuijper <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> wrote:

> When you file a flightplan in SB3 and it asks for your cruise-alt in feet
> ASL, how do you deal with this?
>
> I have this feeling that the controllers will use the Metric system.

Hi Marcel...

Just enter your cruise-level in feet.. Used in most of Europe..
Even that we conform to the metric system, flight-levels stayed in feet...

Only in Russian airspace, the flightlevel are in metric.. I think... ;o)
If some know differently, please jump in and correct me...

Regards
Mikael K

--
Vatsim-callsign: OY-MKO
Home Airport: EKBI

Sorry.. no direct reply-email.. ;o)
Anonymous
April 10, 2005 6:30:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I haven't tried this myself (yet), but Norbert Vorstadt has written
something called "The European ATC Quick Primer"
http://home.t-online.de/home/n.vorstaedt/eurprimer.html "This is a
quick introduction to the European style of flying with ATC. It is
intended for American virtual pilots, flying the first time in Europe
and preparing for their first encounter with our ATC system."

Inter alia he says, "The British airspace system is yet a little more
confusing for the American pilot. For example, all airways are class A
airspace and hence reserved for IFR traffic only. The VFR traffic has
to duck underneath the airways. If you want to fly VFR in Europe, you
better consult a VFR chart of the region first."

Egad! Or should I say, Newtonards? All the more reason to find a
distributor for those charts...

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Related resources
April 10, 2005 10:33:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

David Wilson-Okamura wrote:

> I haven't tried this myself (yet), but Norbert Vorstadt has written
> something called "The European ATC Quick Primer"
> http://home.t-online.de/home/n.vorstaedt/eurprimer.html "This is a
> quick introduction to the European style of flying with ATC. It is
> intended for American virtual pilots, flying the first time in Europe
> and preparing for their first encounter with our ATC system."
>
> Inter alia he says, "The British airspace system is yet a little more
> confusing for the American pilot. For example, all airways are class A
> airspace and hence reserved for IFR traffic only. The VFR traffic has
> to duck underneath the airways. If you want to fly VFR in Europe, you
> better consult a VFR chart of the region first."
>
> Egad! Or should I say, Newtonards? All the more reason to find a
> distributor for those charts...

I mentioned this before but it is relevant here also. In 1976 our entire
unit packed up and moved to Giebelstadt Germany. New pilots are
required to go through some training both in flight AND in the classroom
to cover all aspects of flying in Germany. Well, they did not have the
instructors that could do the training and our operations finally came
out and said: "If you were current and a PIC at Ft Knox, then you are
current and PIC here. At that time I was current and a Pilot In Command
of the UH-1, AH-1 and OH-58. So take it from me, I know, if you see
some funny rings and shaded bands near big airports, just get low, go
around those rings and turn off the transponder. Somehow it worked back
then, should work now.





:)  Just Joking






I was only current in the AH-1 and OH-58. The rest was true.

--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 12:15:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:02:35 GMT, Mikael K wrote:

> Just enter your cruise-level in feet.. Used in most of Europe..
> Even that we conform to the metric system, flight-levels stayed in feet...

Alright. Feet it is. That makes things easier anyway since it's not easy
finding an aircraft with metric gauges. Converting from feet to meters
isn't a big problem, but I do have to turn to my laptop to look it up.

But why ASL?
I've looked on some of the Jeppesen charts for Holland and there's no
mention of ASL, MSL or AGL. ASL isn't the global standard, is it?
(when flying online I mean)

Do I have to know how much a country is above or below Sea Level?
Because Holland is below it, but I keep forgetting how much exactly.
I think it's somewhere around -308m or something.

Because of this simple thing I chickened out of flying today.
I was convinced I filed the wrong cruise altitude.
I had set the sim to Metric Meters, filed 4000ft (approx 1200m), but chose
to fly this offline instead to test it. I was told by the sim ATC to climb
to 4000ft, set the altitude 1250 and it seemed to work fine.

> Only in Russian airspace, the flightlevel are in metric.. I think... ;o)
> If some know differently, please jump in and correct me...

That's still strange...because when I'm listening on the scanner I never
hear feet. When I hear FL60, I assume it's 6000m and not 6000ft.
So the use of feet is just when flying with Vatsim?

Do you fly online a lot, Mikael?

--

Marcel
(I'm leaving on a jetplane, I don't know when I'll be back again.)
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 12:18:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 12:01:08 -0500, David Wilson-Okamura wrote:

> I haven't tried this myself (yet), but Norbert Vorstadt has written
> something called "The European ATC Quick Primer"
> http://home.t-online.de/home/n.vorstaedt/eurprimer.html "This is a
> quick introduction to the European style of flying with ATC. It is
> intended for American virtual pilots, flying the first time in Europe
> and preparing for their first encounter with our ATC system."

It turns out I had that site bookmarked already, but I have so many
aviation sites bookmarked that it's difficult to find what I'm looking for.
Thanks.

Still...there's no mention of the use of ASL, AGL or MSL and there doesn't
seem to be a lot of explanation about this on the internet.

My question is this: where/when is ASL, AGL or MSL used?

--

Marcel
(If you want to grow old as a pilot, you've got to know when to
push it, and when to back off. - Chuck Yeager)
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 12:19:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 10-Apr-2005, Marcel Kuijper <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Converting from feet to meters
> isn't a big problem, but I do have to turn to my laptop to look it up.

Just to make an easy rule.. 3.3 feets equals 1 meter. And 0.33 meter equals
1 feet.
So multiply or divide by 3.3...

> But why ASL?
> I've looked on some of the Jeppesen charts for Holland and there's no
> mention of ASL, MSL or AGL. ASL isn't the global standard, is it?
> (when flying online I mean)

Hmm... ASL... Couldn't that be an acronym for Approach Light System??
Altitudes in Europe are also measured to MSL or AGL... Never heard of ASL...

Anyone else..?? I know that some speaks about "AMSL"... Above Mean Sea
Level... But don't think that is widely used...


> Do I have to know how much a country is above or below Sea Level?
> Because Holland is below it, but I keep forgetting how much exactly.
> I think it's somewhere around -308m or something.

Well.. 308m are quite a bit.. some around 900 feets.. ;o)
EHAM is -5m MSL.. that is around 15 feets..
And rest of Holland are fairly flat and about same level, with exceptions of
the dykes of course.. ;o)


> > Only in Russian airspace, the flightlevel are in metric.. I think...
> > ;o)
> > If some know differently, please jump in and correct me...
>
> That's still strange...because when I'm listening on the scanner I never
> hear feet. When I hear FL60, I assume it's 6000m and not 6000ft.
> So the use of feet is just when flying with Vatsim?

> Do you fly online a lot, Mikael?

Well.. last question first...
No.. Just started out.. have logged some 4-5 hours on VATSIM...

With regards to the FL60.. maybe it was a "lazy" abbreviation from FL060 to
plain FL60...?
But it seems logic, that all VATSIM use feets...
Hmm.. looking at ServInfo, those Russians AP does use some "funny"
altitudes.. Like 35.300 feet and 33.200 feet. Looks like approximations on
FL10800 meters and FL 10000 meters.

Found a page at answers.com with some explanations on altitudes..:
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&...

Maybe some more explanation there...



Regards
Mikael K

--
Vatsim-callsign: OY-MKO
Home Airport: EKBI

Sorry.. no direct reply-email.. ;o)
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 12:19:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

FL60 = 6,000 feet MSL. Vorstadt explains: "When you hear a controller
say 'descend flight level 70' it's probably no newbie, who doesn't know
about flight levels. In fact many European countries have very low
transition altitudes - and many of them are different. That's one of
the confusing and probably historical things; governments obviously
don't deem it necessary (or possible) to agree on a European standard
in this regard."

"ASL" in the VATSIM flightplan form = above sea level.

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
April 11, 2005 4:47:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Wow,

Interesting discussion. First of all, we use MSL and QNH in Europe, however
British military may use AGL and QFE in local areas! Marcel Kuijper, are you
Dutch?? It's a very Dutch name. If so you should know that Alexanderpolder
near Rotterdam has an "elevation" (lovely word for this matter) of -6 feet!
About transition altitudes; those will be about FL 45 (Netherlands). And
when you check my e-mail addrsss, no I 'm no German, but a cloggy living in
Germany. Will be moving back in June though. Cheers,

Loek

"David Wilson-Okamura" <David Wilson-Okamura@forums.simradar.com> schreef in
bericht news:1113165917.26974@forums.simradar.com...
> FL60 = 6,000 feet MSL. Vorstadt explains: "When you hear a controller
> say 'descend flight level 70' it's probably no newbie, who doesn't know
> about flight levels. In fact many European countries have very low
> transition altitudes - and many of them are different. That's one of
> the confusing and probably historical things; governments obviously
> don't deem it necessary (or possible) to agree on a European standard
> in this regard."
>
> "ASL" in the VATSIM flightplan form = above sea level.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
> Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
April 12, 2005 1:56:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:19:27 GMT, Mikael K wrote:

> Just to make an easy rule.. 3.3 feets equals 1 meter. And 0.33 meter equals
> 1 feet. So multiply or divide by 3.3...

Well that is pretty easy, but I've already created a little conversion
chart yesterday for easy use.


> Hmm... ASL... Couldn't that be an acronym for Approach Light System??
> Altitudes in Europe are also measured to MSL or AGL... Never heard of ASL...

Well SB3 wants us to enter a cruise-alt in ASL.


> Anyone else..?? I know that some speaks about "AMSL"... Above Mean Sea
> Level... But don't think that is widely used...

I think ASL and AMSL might just be the same.


>> Do I have to know how much a country is above or below Sea Level?
>> Because Holland is below it, but I keep forgetting how much exactly.
>> I think it's somewhere around -308m or something.
>
> Well.. 308m are quite a bit.. some around 900 feets.. ;o)
> EHAM is -5m MSL.. that is around 15 feets..

See that? I'm Dutch and I didn't even know how much exactly. :-)
I could have looked it up via Google, but it has been a rough weekend.


>>> Only in Russian airspace, the flightlevel are in metric.. I think...
>> That's still strange...because when I'm listening on the scanner I never
>> hear feet. When I hear FL60, I assume it's 6000m and not 6000ft.
>> So the use of feet is just when flying with Vatsim?
>
>> Do you fly online a lot, Mikael?
>
> Well.. last question first...
> No.. Just started out.. have logged some 4-5 hours on VATSIM...

GA or airliner?

> With regards to the FL60.. maybe it was a "lazy" abbreviation from FL060 to
> plain FL60...?

No...I'm pretty sure that's how they say it here.

> But it seems logic, that all VATSIM use feets...

Really? I thought VATSIM were divided like RL aviation.
Not every country uses feet IRL. I think I may have to do some more reading
first.

> Found a page at answers.com with some explanations on altitudes..:
> http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&...
>
> Maybe some more explanation there...

Thanks for that. I've printed it out. There's some real good stuff in
there.

--

Marcel
(I've got a baaad feeling about this.....)
Anonymous
April 12, 2005 2:18:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 15:46:02 -0500, David Wilson-Okamura wrote:

> "ASL" in the VATSIM flightplan form = above sea level.

So that *is* what is stands for!
I had a hunch about that....

Now here's a stupid question: how do I determine what the correct altitude
should be when filing a flightplan?

For example: I wanted to file an IFR flight from EHAL to EHBK.
I thought 1200m would be a good altitude (approx. 4000ft) for a flight that
lasts about an hour in a Baron.
But Holland is under sealevel (as Mikael pointed out it's -9m).
Should I take this into consideration?
Even the Jepp charts I have don't mention any kind of ASL or MSL altitudes.

In the sim I just adjust the barometric pressure as assigned and don't
think too much about flying AGL, ASL or MSL. But now I have to.
It's kind of a strain, you know? :-)
A whole new way of flying. Why am I doing this?

I just want to make sure I have most of the facts straight before I take
the plunge. Any assistance is most appreciated, since you seem to be very
familiar with how VATSIM works.

--

Marcel
(Mmmmmm.....beer and doughnuts. - Homer Simpson)
Anonymous
April 12, 2005 2:18:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

___| reply |__________________________________________________________

Now here's a stupid question: how do I determine what the correct
altitude
should be when filing a flightplan?

For example: I wanted to file an IFR flight from EHAL to EHBK.
I thought 1200m would be a good altitude (approx. 4000ft) for a flight
that
lasts about an hour in a Baron.I just want to make sure I have most of
the facts straight before I take the plunge. Any assistance is most
appreciated, since you seem to be very familiar with how VATSIM works.


_____________________________________________________________________


Let me preface this by pleading ignorance. I'm in the same position you
are, knowing there are differences, wanting to get them ironed out
before I make a fool of myself in front of an audience. But here's how
I would tackle the problem:

1. Consult the website of the ATC zone I am going to be flying in. They
will often give you a list of preferred routes, charts to download,
etc.

- How do you find the website for a zone? Start at VATSIM.net. Scroll
over to the far right side of the homepage and select your region. I
know (after looking it up) that EHAL is in the Netherlands, so select
Europe. This will take you to http://www.dutchvacc.nl/

2. Wow, the site is in English! Lucky me. I click on "Pilots" in the
lefthand side and -- shazaam -- I hit the jackpot right off. Here I
find charts, a tutorial for flying in Dutch airspace, VFR procedures,
IFR procedures for selected airports, and...a link to EUroute.

3. What's EUroute? It gives you the preferred routes between selected
airports, including minimum altitudes. Unfortunately, Marcel, EHBK is
not yet in the database. So pick another airport that is. Or...

- Look around on the site for the relevant chart(s).

- Or...go to the VATSIM forums, scroll down to "Europe," and ask.

- Or...go to the contact page at DutchVACC
http://www.dutchvacc.nl/index.php?option=com_contact&ca...
8 and ask someone there.

Now the other question is, why go to all this trouble. And it is a lot
of trouble, especially at first. I'm doing it because, in the real
world, I live on the far side of nowhere. (Ok, that's an exaggeration,
but Greenville, North Carolina is hardly a teeming metropolis.) I've
been to Europe a couple times, and when I can afford to travel there
again, I will. In the meantime, I read, study, and "fly." Also, there's
what Hopkins called, when he saw a windhover hovering, "the achieve of,
the mastery of the thing." But there are easier ways to have fun of a
Saturday morning...

_________________________________________________________
Posted via the -Web to Usenet- forums at http://forums.simradar.com
Visit www.simradar.com and try our Flight Simulation Search Engine!
Anonymous
April 12, 2005 2:28:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 11-Apr-2005, Marcel Kuijper <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> wrote
among other things:

> Well SB3 wants us to enter a cruise-alt in ASL.

Hmm.. Well.. Does that tell how much attention I did put into reading what
the description was...??
Kinda have red ears now.. :D 

> GA or airliner?

For now, GA... Still flying around in Danish airspace, getting the hang of
the ATC.
Trying to get used to the procedures of requesting clearance for the
flightplan, for the startup and pushback, for the taxi, for the departure...
And then the reading back of issued vectors or taxi-ways, or wind and
QNH-info.. Or.. just to "read" those spoken informations... Wonder how many
times I have responded: "Didn't copy that. Please say again. Oscar Yankee -
Mike Kilo Oscar"... :o )


> > With regards to the FL60.. maybe it was a "lazy" abbreviation from FL060
> > to
> > plain FL60...?
>
> No...I'm pretty sure that's how they say it here.

I must admit, that "my" ATC also have issued me FL80 (8000 feet), but I just
assumed it was for an easy readout of my assigned altitude...
Had previously done some reading, and thought that FL120 was the lowest
FlightLevel issued (transition layer).. Below, it would be spoken in
feets... Maybe that was just valid for American flight-rules...
But as David Wilson pointed out in another post, we (the European) obviously
use FL to much lower altitudes..
I just keep learning.. ;o)

As to your question in another post, about what altitude to issue in your
flightplan, I just "pick" an altitude that fits my GA and my length of
flight.
Also I use the FS Commander (shareware) to make flightplans, and in this you
get to select for what kind of IFR you want to make a plan for.
Navaids, low airways or high airways... And based on your input and
aircrafts specs, it suggest an appropriate flight-level to the generated
fligtplan.
Still, I don't know if it takes headings into considerations of flightlevels
as to the "semicircular rule".. Maybe I will look after that when doing my
next flightplan..


Regards
Mikael K

--
Vatsim-callsign: OY-MKO
Home Airport: EKBI

Sorry.. no direct reply-email.. ;o)
Anonymous
April 12, 2005 2:30:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:47:32 +0200, L. Mulder wrote:

> Wow,
>
> Interesting discussion. First of all, we use MSL and QNH in Europe, however
> British military may use AGL and QFE in local areas!

I know QNH from listening to the scanner. EHAM ATIS sounds pretty funny!


> Marcel Kuijper, are you Dutch?? It's a very Dutch name. If so you should know
> that Alexanderpolder near Rotterdam has an "elevation" (lovely word for this matter)
> of -6 feet!

I am Dutch, but I'm also from Amsterdam.
As a rule people from Amsterdam refuse to know about Rotterdam's existance.
For all we care Rotterdam is -600m under the sea. It's a soccer thing. :-)

> About transition altitudes; those will be about FL 45 (Netherlands). And
> when you check my e-mail addrsss, no I 'm no German, but a cloggy living in
> Germany. Will be moving back in June though. Cheers,

A "cloggy"? LOL!!!

I hope Dallas, Crash and JayDub (John Ward) don't read that. I'll never
hear the end of it! :-))

--

Marcel
(There's no such thing as a natural-born pilot. - Chuck Yeager)
Anonymous
April 12, 2005 9:32:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

L. Mulder wrote:
> Wow,
>
> Interesting discussion. First of all, we use MSL and QNH in Europe, however
> British military may use AGL and QFE in local areas!

In Finland, in real life, the civil traffic uses QNH while the military
use QFE.

P.R.
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 1:03:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:28:01 GMT, Mikael K wrote:

> Marcel Kuijper wrote:
>> Well SB3 wants us to enter a cruise-alt in ASL.
>
> Hmm.. Well.. Does that tell how much attention I did put into reading what
> the description was...??
> Kinda have red ears now.. :D 

Don't feel bad, dude. It happens to all of us at some point. :-)


>> GA or airliner?
>
> For now, GA... Still flying around in Danish airspace, getting the hang of
> the ATC.

Danish Airspace, huh? What's that like?
Do you find it difficult dealing with the change of accents when you're
flying from country to country?


> Trying to get used to the procedures of requesting clearance for the
> flightplan, for the startup and pushback, for the taxi, for the departure...
> And then the reading back of issued vectors or taxi-ways, or wind and
> QNH-info.. Or.. just to "read" those spoken informations... Wonder how many
> times I have responded: "Didn't copy that. Please say again. Oscar Yankee -
> Mike Kilo Oscar"... :o )

I can imagine....especially when it concerns longs lists of taxiways to
travel over. Even with the sim ATC I need it repeated sometimes so I can
write it down. Since a few weeks now I've been practicing this procedure,
purposely not using the "progressive taxi" option the sim has.

Bill Leaming once mentioned that he got just about the longest list of
taxiways when he was at KDEN and had to taxi from one end of the airport to
the other in order to get to the active runway.
That's my biggest fear! And that's how RL pilots sometimes get lost too!


> I must admit, that "my" ATC also have issued me FL80 (8000 feet), but I just
> assumed it was for an easy readout of my assigned altitude...
> Had previously done some reading, and thought that FL120 was the lowest
> FlightLevel issued (transition layer).. Below, it would be spoken in
> feets... Maybe that was just valid for American flight-rules...
> But as David Wilson pointed out in another post, we (the European) obviously
> use FL to much lower altitudes..

Yes sir...it seems we need to know that information before we even file the
flightplan. This is a different kind of simming altogether. THIS is "as
real as it gets". I now fully understand that we need to *think* we're real
pilots in order to pull off a simple VFR flight.


> I just keep learning.. ;o)

We all do, Mikael.


> As to your question in another post, about what altitude to issue in your
> flightplan, I just "pick" an altitude that fits my GA and my length of
> flight.

That's how I'm going to be doing it too....but the correct altimeter
setting is more important now than ever before. The first couple of flights
I'll need to take my time setting up a flight so I have everything right.


> Also I use the FS Commander (shareware) to make flightplans, and in this you
> get to select for what kind of IFR you want to make a plan for.
> Navaids, low airways or high airways... And based on your input and
> aircrafts specs, it suggest an appropriate flight-level to the generated
> fligtplan.

I have FSNavigator and FSBuild, but I won't be using them for the first few
VFR flights. I want to see if I can do this without using either of them.


> Still, I don't know if it takes headings into considerations of flightlevels
> as to the "semicircular rule".. Maybe I will look after that when doing my
> next flightplan..

I don't think FSNavigator does, but FSBuild just might. I haven't really
noticed, to be honest.

David made a good point though....before planning your flight, have a look
on the right side of the Vatsim.net site and look up the rules of the
region you'll be flying in. You'll get info on transition altitudes,
transition layers, courses and headings to fly, charts and much more.
There's more help in there than I ever imagined.

Thanks for the great tips!

--

Marcel
(That's no moon...it's a space station!)
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 2:06:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:19:27 GMT, Mikael K wrote:

> And rest of Holland are fairly flat and about same level, with exceptions of
> the dykes of course.. ;o)

Most of the dykes I've known were pretty flat also...

Oh, you're talking about those things that hold back the water! ;) 

Bill
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 8:06:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 12-Apr-2005, Marcel Kuijper <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Danish Airspace, huh? What's that like?
> Do you find it difficult dealing with the change of accents when you're
> flying from country to country?

Nahh... couldn't really tell, as I have kept myself inside danish FIR till
now.
While I have been doing my first "steps" in Danish airspace, then I was able
to quickly revert to my native language and ask/get explained if there was a
procedure or some other essential stuff I missed.

But I start to feel ready for some longer flights now.. Maybe coming down
to look at those "dykes" soon.. ;o)


Regards
Mikael K

--
Vatsim-callsign: OY-MKO
Home Airport: EKBI

Sorry.. no direct reply-email.. ;o)
Anonymous
April 13, 2005 8:07:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 13-Apr-2005, Bill Leaming <n4gix@comcast.net> wrote:

> Most of the dykes I've known were pretty flat also...
>
> Oh, you're talking about those things that hold back the water! ;) 

That was your thoughts.. not mine.. ;o)

Regards
Mikael K

--
Vatsim-callsign: OY-MKO
Home Airport: EKBI

Sorry.. no direct reply-email.. ;o)
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 12:16:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:06:27 GMT, Mikael K wrote:

> While I have been doing my first "steps" in Danish airspace, then I was able
> to quickly revert to my native language and ask/get explained if there was a
> procedure or some other essential stuff I missed.

I'm gonna be starting the other way around.
Eventhough the majority of my flights have been outside of Holland (mainly
North America because of the gauges and settings), I'm going to start my
online flights in Holland because the routes are short and simple and it's
next to impossible to get lost.


> But I start to feel ready for some longer flights now.. Maybe coming down
> to look at those "dykes" soon.. ;o)

You'd better set your sliders to the max or you'll miss them. :-)

--

Marcel
(I'm leaving on a jetplane, I don't know when I'll be back again.)
Anonymous
April 19, 2005 8:31:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Here's another link from the same source: Flying in France
http://flyinfrance.free.fr/ Includes:

Airspace & Regulations
Airports
Find an ACFT
Prepare a flight
Customs
Charts
R/T
Licences
Night VFR / IFR
Where to go?

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