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$4k budget. AMD or Intel?

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January 30, 2006 2:31:29 AM

Speed + Candy = My Next Build. $4k of parts (give or take) should do the job. My only requirement is that it's all on air. (I don't need Prestone leaking on the desk, thank-you.)

The goal is to build a Dualie: 2 cpu's, 10k raid 0, 2GB, 2 GTX SLi, 2-12v Rails etc... you see where I'm going?

I know that 775 processors are demonstrably slower than AMD's. I hear AMD is done with 939 after the FX60 (performance-wise), while Intel has 3 years left on the 775. Is that true?

I priced out both, and the Intel 775 is coming up $400 cheaper (fx60 vs 950). It also sounds like the 775 will be around another 2-3 years. I really don't want to swap mobos after 8 months unless there is a good reason. Can someone give me some guidance?

More about : budget amd intel

January 30, 2006 2:57:41 AM

4k? holy moly, u can buy two pimped out rigs for a friend to play with u.
If u can wait it out, the new generation of Intel CPUs will be coming soon. If not, I'd go with:

DFI UT NF4 SLI-DR expert
AMD FX-60
Zalman CNPS9500 cpu fan
4gig of OCZ platinum DDR400 (2 x 2gig dual channels)
X1900 XT
Enermax Liberty 620W dual SLI/Crossfire ready PSU
2 x 74gig WD raptors (or 1 150gig raptor)
WD 400 gig caviar RAID 2
Case is up to u, I'd go with top of the line Antec, I love their simple but effective designs.
If you want crossfire u might have to go for the DFI Lanparty UT RDX200 CF-DR, which is an awesome mobo, but still a new line so a few problems. I suggest you not go with 512 7800GTX SLI, overpriced and underpowered compared to the x1900. I'd get one x1900 b4 I sell my kidney for a pair of 512 7800's.
If you're still under 4k, upgrade the x1900 XTs to x1900 XTXs :p 
January 30, 2006 10:10:11 AM

in alot of benchmarks the 7800GTXS(SLI) still beat the x1900XTXS(crossfire) id wait until nvidia comes out with their new cards that are going to kill ATI, but if you must buy now then that guy above me has it about right.
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January 30, 2006 10:15:14 AM

except yeah alot of this stuff he put in this build is useless price filler, 4GB wtf...lol 2GB is still fine for games for the next 4 years and when you do need 4GB your system will be very obsolete. harddrives depends howmuch space you want id go SATA II as they get 300mbps instead of the 150mbps on the raptors. and instead of an enermax(dunno them well) id stick with the best(Antec). the thermalright heatsinks are also better than zalman(xp-90c) or others. the dual cores are the future though so you might want to stick with an athlon 64 x2 future games will use them way better than they do now.
January 30, 2006 10:43:22 AM

Nice budget! IMHO, start with a TYAN S2895 mobo, as it's dual core opteron ready, 2x16 PCI-e for SLI, SATA, and all of the onboard goodies you'd need. Get either a pair of Opteron 250's (single core) or a pair of Opteron 275's (dual core), match it up with 4x512 Corsair low latency XMS, snag a pair of Nvidia 7800GTX's for the SLI, then top it off with an M-Audio 7.1 Revolution sound card. Snag yourself the 10k drives in RAID0 for the system drives as well as a couple of 400GB's for storage. Either an Enermax EG851AX-VH or PC Power & Cooling TURBO-COOL 850 will be more than enough to power it up. Then the Lian-Li 2100 server case or the Antec Titan 550 to give a nice home. To cool it all down, the Zalman CNPS7000B-Cu for the procs, and the 2x Zalman VF-700-Cu for the 7800's. That is a machine to brag about and will be more than enough hardware for whatever you could throw at it and it will last at least 3-4 years.
January 30, 2006 10:44:14 AM

At the moment the athlon 64 x2 is a waste go for socket 939 opteron dual core's instead they have more cache on them compared to the lower model X2's or the same as some of the higher end X2's but either way they tend to overclock better and seem to be cheaper aka a better bargin.

Also on a side note the Opteron 180 is better than the FX60, but since it doesn't have unlocked multipliers may not overclock quite as well.
January 30, 2006 12:05:40 PM

Um, more cache? Depends on the processor. The 4400+ and 4800+ X2s have 2 MB caches. Some of the lower end Optys only have 1 MB.

I agree with Chunky about Tyan. Great MB but none support Crossfire, which may be a better value as of today.
January 30, 2006 12:08:41 PM

AMD, always! Get something extra special from VoodooPC (at least you've got warranty then!) or if you want to build it yourself go for a mad spec and cool it with ECT or Asetek phasechanger - it wont leak, but is not the easiest thing to install - but once youve got one your heading for 3.2-3.4Ghz maybe higher on an Athlon FX-60 (and higher than anything available for the next year probably!).

Add to that the usual 2x 74gb Raptors and 3x 500gb satas (raid 5) to give yourself 150gb of fast program space and 1Tb of quick and protected storage space.

Go with X1900 XT + crossfire cards (fastest at the moment) or wait a little while for nVidia to release the 7900 range (no doubt theyll be quicker than the 1900XT's).

Motherboard - well overclocking and SLI - go DFI Lanparty UT SLI Expert....or for Crossfire - maybe the DFI RDX200 (although it can be flakey), or wait til DFI do an RD580 chipsetted board for enthusiasts, should be more mature than the current RD480.

Pair all this with some 2Gb of some nice memory - OCZ platinum or summit, dvd-r/w, and a matching case to stand on the phase changer.

If this is all too rich and you wanted a whole system (peripherals and all) then just buy the FX-60 on air and similar bits and see if theres budget to add in a 30" Dell LCD and a nice KB/Mouse.

The skys the limit (ish).
January 30, 2006 12:20:40 PM

With that budget, Id get an FX-60 because it beats intel and is really good (expensive too :? ).

About the mobo... cant choose :roll: Id probably get an Abit.

Sceond, I would buy a X1900XFX although id see and wait what the 7900GTX will be like...

With that processor, 4GB of ultralow latency (OCZ or Corsair).

Good sound card: X-Fi FPS if you dont want the fancy control box.

2x WD 150GB raptors in raid 0

3x WD XXGB in raid 5 for storage&performance

Zalman cooler for the fx-60 :) 

Enermax Liberty or PC power&cooling of over 600W

Lian-Li aluminum case (this is very personal, but i like the PC-V1000 series a lot)

If you still have money buy a good mouse/keyboard/headset/speakers/TV tuner :twisted:
January 30, 2006 12:55:46 PM

Quote:
Um, more cache? Depends on the processor. The 4400+ and 4800+ X2s have 2 MB caches. Some of the lower end Optys only have 1 MB.


You are mistaken(sort of). The 4400+ and 4800+ have 2mb (1+1mb) and all the Opterons have the same 1mb per core (2mb).
January 30, 2006 1:09:06 PM

To quote Ed McMahon "you are correct, Sir!"

My point was simply to correct another poster who stated that the Optys have larger caches than the X2s. As I said in my post, it depends on the processor model.

In the spirit of unity, I think we can all agree on the FX-60. Finally, a CPU has brought us all together...
January 30, 2006 1:57:47 PM

Quote:
To quote Ed McMahon "you are correct, Sir!"

My point was simply to correct another poster who stated that the Optys have larger caches than the X2s. As I said in my post, it depends on the processor model.

In the spirit of unity, I think we can all agree on the FX-60. Finally, a CPU has brought us all together...


Actually the Opteron 180 is better than the FX-60. Sorry to throw your theory, but those extra HyperTransport layers help and the CPU is essentially the same as the FX-60 except for unlocked multipliers. Then again I don't OC so if you plan to crazily OC the cpu the FX-60 might be better. I still say save the $250 or so and go with the better cpu--Opteron 180.
January 30, 2006 2:16:13 PM

Opterons in general have pretty been better than a64's because they're more aimed towards high end servers and have been given extra cache or improved HyperTransport speed in order to differentiate them. It wasn't until they started making socket 939 opterons tho that really made much since from a gaming perspective since 940 boards generally don't seem to have the same features because opterons were designed for server usage. I was looking into multi cores awhile back as a gaming option prior to dual core opterons on socket 940 boards but the options were much more limited and I think they all were lacking sli.
a b B Homebuilt system
January 30, 2006 2:35:29 PM

"At the moment the athlon 64 x2 is a waste go for socket 939 opteron dual core's instead they have more cache on them"

So an Opteron dually with 1 meg L2 cache per core has more cache than an X2 4400 or 4800+, which each also have 1 mb L2 cache per core? :-)
a b B Homebuilt system
January 30, 2006 2:38:56 PM

"In the spirit of unity, I think we can all agree on the FX-60. "

I'd gladly sacrifice the 200 MHz of "factory certified" clockspeed (2.6 GHz with FX60, vs. 2.4G with X2 4600+ )to save $500-$600 by getting an X2 4600+ instead; even with a $4k budget, buying the top speed cpu available is nearly always double the price or more for 3% hypothetical cpu performance bump, and a 1% or less jump in actual high res gaming....
January 30, 2006 2:56:41 PM

4k AMD build in the sig. Plus all the litte extras i did, special sleeving, cold cathodes, extra LED fans, fan controller, custom fan grills, etc... But keep in mind I still haven't got a sound card in it yet... I have 2 7800GTX 512s coming in this week, so i gotta see if i'll even have room to through one in there lol. Prolly not is my guess though. But i dont need sound really for the games I play, so its not a build deal to me if i can put one in or not.
January 30, 2006 3:05:02 PM

If this guy is really going to go all out on a $4k system maybe he could squeeze in the money for a 4 GB PCIe RAM drive. I forget what companies make them, but basically, it's a battery supported PCIe device that you load up with DIMMs. In other words, it has ridiculously fast access times and transfer rates but is treated like a regular disk drive. Why not? If I dropped $4k on a system I'd want something that has a lot of "wow"
January 30, 2006 5:27:41 PM

Whoever said 4gig of ram is a "filler", you should recommend a AMD 3200+, A8NE-SLI mobo, 6800GS, 1gig of dual channel RAM and whatever else, becuz if you're trying to get stuff that can run today's apps...you don't need any of the above. And you never know, maybe he's a heavy multi tasker, he never said he was just using it for gaming he could be running multiple apps while he's gaming, or maybe a heavy OCer. You want THE BEST, it's going to cost you. Honestly if you gave me 4k I wouldn't come close to spending that much as I'd rather have 2 months of steak and lobster dinners b4 I spend it on a computer. But that's just not my cup of tea. Never heard of enermax? LOL.

Also I agree with waiting for the 7900GTX, that thing is going to be a monster. But if you want what's on the market right now, x1900 is definitely the way to go. I would opt for the x1900 instead of the 512 becuz of the pricing. Altho it's only 100-200 more depending on what brand you're going for, I'd rather invest that money into something else. Or just hang on to it so you can upgrade ur parts when new tech comes out from nvidia n intel.
January 30, 2006 5:29:57 PM

Quote:
Or just hang on to it so you can upgrade ur parts when new tech comes out from nvidia n intel.


waiting = boring, gaming now = fun :twisted:
January 30, 2006 5:37:10 PM

haha, i agree, but no money = makes gf cry = no sex

when the 7900s do come out, prices willl drop on everything else which is awesome cuz nothing fully utilizes the current cards anyways. just bumped up fps that is barely noticeable.

u can tell someone is serious about their comp when they have plextor drives...maxiius u nut :twisted:
January 30, 2006 5:52:33 PM

Quote:
no money = makes gf cry = no sex

I concur! :D 

Quote:
maxiius u nut

TRUE! :D 
January 30, 2006 6:54:05 PM

Yeah right. There's no way you're buying two 7800 GTX 512s, and then don't care if you have sound.

I'm also noticing in your signature it says Two Geforce 7800 GTX KOs, yet you claimed you were getting 512s. Anyone who already has 7800 GTX KOs would be an idiot to upgrade to the 512s.
January 30, 2006 7:18:40 PM

Quote:
Yeah right. There's no way you're buying two 7800 GTX 512s, and then don't care if you have sound.


The reason I bought the 7800 KOs is because I could never find the 512s in stock. So knowing that the eVGA company has a step-up program, i bought there cards for the now, well knowing that I was going to put 512s in my system from the start. By doing that I saved myself gaming down time(MMORPG related), and money by doing so. I dont know of another company that has such a program, and if there is I would love to be enlighted on the subject. eVGA step-up program for teh win. And if I have the money to blow on them, whats it to you? And you know what, when the 7900s or 8000s come out, I'll buy those too 8)

Quote:
But i dont need sound really for the games I play, so its not a build deal to me if i can put one in or not.

What I said earlier, yes it doesn't matter to me, because I dont use sound in MMORPG's. I use teamspeak to communicate with my guild and chat with them. Occasionally I play Counterstrike, where a sound card would come more in handy, like most FPS would.

Any other questions?
January 30, 2006 10:56:39 PM

Quote:
haha, i agree, but no money = makes gf cry = no sex


But no sex= boy cry=need computer= need money..

no money=no computer=boy cry= gf cry=no sex=sad life
January 30, 2006 11:16:12 PM

Quote:
But no sex= boy cry=need computer= need money..

no money=no computer=boy cry= gf cry=no sex=sad life


LOL
January 30, 2006 11:16:21 PM

I built a system with simmilar specs, except that HD speed was my primary focus.

check out the following:
Tyan K8WE
2x Opteron 270 dual core. (I think thats the 1.8ghz version).
2gig of whatever ram works for you.

2x whatever nVidia card you decide on.

The board has built in SCSI and SATA.
so grab a small 18gb or 36gb 10krpm scsi drive to run your OS from.
then add SATA storage (AdreeN had some good ideas).

make sure you get the upright cpu coolers - something designed like this:
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/CoolerMaster/Products.a...

the large flat blue-orb style coolers will not fit on that board as the cpu sockets are too close together.

For the case. I started with an antec case, but the thing was just Too Small. so I got one of these: http://www.mbx.com/p/supermicro/sc_742i_450b/
not cheap as far as cases, but the power supply is something to behold, there is LOTS of room inside and the big black case just looks cool :wink:

And lastly, if you call up these guys: www.mbx.com they will build your system to your EXACT specs, ship it to you pre-built and tack on a 3yr warranty & lifetime tech support. yes you can get the same stuff cheaper at other places, but when was the last time you called newegg for technical support?
January 31, 2006 1:07:07 AM

Thank you for enlightening me; but I still feel it is a really bad idea. I also wonder what motherboard you could be using that won't have room for 7800 GTX 512s, and a soundcard.
January 31, 2006 1:33:59 AM

well if woman = time x money

money = woman/time

therefore the inverse, no money, which = no sex, would be time/money.

Which gives us

no sex = time/money

the inverse being

sex = money/time

so if money = time * sex

then time * sex = woman/time

Then, with sex = woman/time squared input into a function with time squared being 0, sex being y, woman being x we find a zero in the denominator.

Therefore the limit as woman approaches zero would be the absolute value of delta +/- x-not, for some value -e<f(x)<e which leads me to understand

WOMAN = EVIL!!! EVIL EVIL
January 31, 2006 2:20:38 AM

Naw only women for lust and for that matter men too, but we knew that anyways it's one of the ten commandments. So in conclusion Lust = Evil!! Doy!! :lol: 
January 31, 2006 2:43:53 AM

Quote:
well if woman = time x money

money = woman/time

therefore the inverse, no money, which = no sex, would be time/money.

Which gives us

no sex = time/money

the inverse being

sex = money/time

so if money = time * sex

then time * sex = woman/time

Then, with sex = woman/time squared input into a function with time squared being 0, sex being y, woman being x we find a zero in the denominator.

Therefore the limit as woman approaches zero would be the absolute value of delta +/- x-not, for some value -e<f(x)<e which leads me to understand

WOMAN = EVIL!!! EVIL EVIL


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January 31, 2006 5:56:16 AM

for 4k, go for socket 940, 2 dual core optys, 4x1gb ram, a nice $200 case (i like lianli), 150gb raptors, and spend the rest on vid, w.e
January 31, 2006 2:18:40 PM

I do not see any point at all in spending 4k on a home PC. You could easily build a top notch PC that will last you for the next 3 years for under 2k.

Then, use the other 2k to spend an evening with a couple of porn star hookers for the night of your life. Long after your PC has died, you will remember that 1 evening on pleasure.
January 31, 2006 3:14:03 PM

For now, go with (AMD 939 or duel-core-Operton 940 - FX60 or X2-4800) and ATI XI1900. THis should be the best pick for the next 6 months or so.
Get RAID 5 and LOTS of RAM. The RAID 5 will help a lot with performance and data integrity. RAM is the cheapest way to avoid disk caching.
I hope Intel can make something interesting by that time.

If you have $4000 to kill, get a good high-res, high contrast, wide-screen monitor also. That will out-last the rest of your system.
January 31, 2006 10:01:38 PM

What are you, like five years old? Two grand wouldn't get you one good "porn star hooker" unless she really liked you.
January 31, 2006 11:30:02 PM

Perhaps this will help, somewhat: Always try to look further ahead... but, mind your step!

Meaning: Go for the top in everything (since you've got the $) but CPU & MB. There's hardly a point in buying the latest GPU, since there's no dramatic increase in perf. However, going with a more mainstream CPU & MB (either Intel or AMD) NOW, will save you $$$ and gives you time to see how the landscape changes; since, in any case, you're be willing to spend almost as much within less than a year (that's for sure!), you'll have the chance to upgrade JUST the CPU & the MB (everything else will - most probably - be compatible). And, you'll be left with an older CPU & MB, for a (cheaper) backup sys.


Cheers!
February 1, 2006 12:04:48 AM

another possibility. final answer - bdude has to figure things out himself, b/c theres no right answer.
February 1, 2006 1:24:05 AM

no 4 gig of ram, even low latency or whatever combination you come up with to fill up 4 dimm slots. Just quality OCZ DDR600 2x1gb.

Whoever said Tt for HSf needs to get smacked. Tt doesn't make quite stuff.

The pimpest HS you can get is the SI-120 or XP-120(if compatible) with that Panaflo 120mm Ultra silent fan.
February 1, 2006 12:20:32 PM

Hello!

I see what you mean; however, you all already gave him plenty of choices... that's up to him to choose, of course.
I guess there's no "right answer" at all but, rather, a selective process which will allow him to find the "best option", now.


Cheers!
February 1, 2006 1:01:15 PM

Quote:

4gig of OCZ platinum DDR400 (2 x 2gig dual channels)


Keep in mind that if you go with more then 3GB Memory, WinXP won't be able to address it and most commerical S939 mobo's arent't too happy addressing all that memory.

If you want 4GB+, go with the Tyan mobo, it supports up to 16GB memory, and run XP64 or Server2003 -- otherwise the extra memory will be a waste.
February 1, 2006 2:18:35 PM

Quote:

Keep in mind that if you go with more then 3GB Memory, WinXP won't be able to address it and most commerical S939 mobo's arent't too happy addressing all that memory.


Let's not start that debate again! 4GB is definitely overkill on a desktop system. Plus you'd be stuck with 2T and 333Mhz with 4 dimms.

I say go with the 2 grand + hookers idea. My sides hurt from laughing at tylerdruid's beautiful mind mathematical analysis!
February 1, 2006 5:52:07 PM

Your M.B. asus 8n sli deluxe have a very good 7.1 soundcard, even have optical output!!
Of course go for AMD!!
the rest of the guys said the rest. You only have to choose !!
February 9, 2006 5:34:07 PM

[quote="usdeeper"
Then, use the other 2k to spend an evening with a couple of porn star hookers for the night of your life. Long after your PC has died, you will remember that 1 evening on pleasure.[/quote]

Yeah and it will burn everytime you use the bathroom.
February 9, 2006 6:05:02 PM

Oh I see now. That does suck. :( 
February 9, 2006 6:31:39 PM

ill prob be the only one to suggest this but...

socket 939 fx-60 1100
2 gb OZC memory (the good shit) uhh
2 150gb raptors 600
2 x1900xtx's 1200
1 mobo that supports xfire 200
rest on hookers...

computer that lasts for 6 months, $3000
memories with hot skanks, priceless :o 
February 9, 2006 6:43:54 PM

Hey TenaciousleyDead,

You recommended that he not get the Raptors and go with a SATA II drive because they are 300mb/s?

Dude the Raptor drives are pretty much the best you can get for any interface. Dont mistake the interface for the amount of performance.

The Raptor (which is currently the fastest SATA anything drive available) is still slower than the SATA I spec even at its peak performance.

SATA II is nice with one exception.... There are no drives that could even remotely touch the specs of the interface even in raid 0 stripped mode.

OP keep the Raptor but be advised if you go for two Raptors in raid 0 for your system drive you take a pretty big risk of losing data. That being said if you have the right config ie... Systme drives and storage drives seperate you should be OK.
February 9, 2006 7:01:41 PM

thats such a bad use of 4100 bux, u put 2 550 watt psu's... 4 gb of memory, take those off alone and thatll drop it down 420 bux i really dont think theres a need for 2 dual core 2.8 ghz cpus, save at least 400 buxx by getting the 2.6 versions, if ur gonna be using this for more gaming than anything else upgrade to SLI video card or Xfire, i duno anything about ECC memory, is it worth 320 bux for 2 gb when u can get 2gb of the best OZC for around 200? 300 bux for a case is a bit much, 150 is the most id spend, especailly if the case doesnt even come with a psu that ur gonna use...and last but not least, 420 for a mobo? im sure u can get similar perforamnce from the lower end model of that board, if not then sure blow 400 on a board that ull prob never use the features... with the extra what 1500 i saved u, get a nice LCD monitor and sli 7800gtx's (or wait for 7900) even still after all that ull have about 500 more left over...
February 9, 2006 7:19:21 PM

i just made a wishlist for a comp with enough power to eat ANY current game alive until it begs for mercy

amd x2 4800 (2 dual core cpu's is such a waste for gaming it makes me angry) 600...

2 x 1gb corsair xms (220, i picked corsair because its all ive delt with, u may pick a different brand just make sure its 2 gb...)

2 x x1900xtx's 1178, i picked x1900xtx because its currently the fastest setup and 7800gtx 512 are the cloestest to match it, but they come in at 1000 a pop...

i picked a DFI lanparty xpress mobo for 165, they are great overclocking boards, if u dont plan on overclocking that much look into an asus board..
and to top it off i picked a creative xfi platinum just because its 185 and u can afford that :)  but any xfi card will suit u plenty, i personally got the 120 dollar one and am VERY impressed with it.

this grand total is 2300, leaving a TON of headroom for a nice 21 inch LCD, klipslich speakers (duno if i spelled it right) and whatever else u may need, u said u wanted 2 optical drives, and u can decide on hds... i still recommend 2 150gb raptors which come in at 600 for both, putting u close to ur budget after monitor, hd, optical drives, and speakers... this at the moment is one of the best setups for pretty much anything, 4 cores are only useful in true professional apps, and a server mobo is worthless if u plan on using it for gaming and other general use. over 2gb of memory is a waste and can actually slow ur system... i duno if u will use 1 tb of storage, but i sure as hell would never use even 100gb... plus 4 hd's would be very hot, the new raptors are cooler than most 7200 rpm drives!... for a quite comp look at the thermaltake blue orb cpu cooler, only 18 db loud and is very good, or so i hear... but of course the entire computer is up to u...
February 9, 2006 7:30:14 PM

They are not dual Core they are single core 2.8GHz 940 Opterons.

The 2nd PSU was added by accident.

This system is way better than any AMD64 939 because each Opteron can have it's own dedicated Dual Channel RAM and has PCI-X and PCI-E
!