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7800GS AGP Review Posted

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February 1, 2006 6:07:37 AM

http://ckturbo128.proboards4.com/index.cgi?board=comput...

I wonder if ATI will bother coming up with an AGP competitor, now that the X850 XT PE has been dethroned.

Anyway this is great news for those of us who're heavily invested in AGP systems.

More about : 7800gs agp review posted

February 1, 2006 7:11:01 AM

who of us who are heavily invested in AGP systems?...
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 7:31:43 AM

With that kind of competition, really little point IMO.

It's a race to the top of the bottom?

Get rid of the old, and then move on. Focus the dollars on bringing the R600/G80 to market.

I can see it now, hundreds of people putting this GF7800GS on their P4 1.8ghz rig expecting to get wonderful performance now in Quake4. :roll:

I'll wait for a real review, especially for a little more depth to the benchmarks, includingt softshadows, etc. Right now it's not worth recommending IMO compared to a GT+Motherboard upgrade.
Related resources
February 1, 2006 8:22:49 AM

I think your wrong in not recommending this card to agp owners! (AS long as they have a 2.5 ghz and above pro)

Simply there are a lot of XP3200 barton owners with agp MB, andP4 3.2ghz AGP owners, its not a few hundred but theres a few 10000`s plus people wanting this, there was a patition online and a lot of people signed for nvidia to make this card for the agp MB, this patition was not sent to ATI dont know why. if you seriuosly want a link to this partition i will find the link in a magazine i read a few months ago.

And yes it just might be worth buying i only have AMD 64 3200 and i score a ass kicking 7600 in 3dmark05 and theres no game i cannot play.

theres not that much difference between a amd3200 64 and a barton 3200, in games give it a max of 5% difference in peromance.
February 1, 2006 8:27:58 AM

I have not heard anything about this card being released before so i would take this news with a pinch of salt.
February 1, 2006 10:05:05 AM

Quote:

theres not that much difference between a amd3200 64 and a barton 3200, in games give it a max of 5% difference in peromance.


synthetics tell me otherwise...
February 1, 2006 11:30:11 AM

Quote:
I can see it now, hundreds of people putting this GF7800GS on their P4 1.8ghz rig expecting to get wonderful performance now in Quake4. :roll:


Uh, hundreds? How bout the million or so IC7 owners? And that's just a single motherboard from a single manufacturer.

Many of us have spent a LOT of time and 1000's of $ building Socket478/P4 systems that blow the doors off Prescott/PCI-E boxes, and most AMD systems as well. Are we (non-SLI'ers) supposed to gut our systems just to go from AGP8X to PCI-E 16X, with no discernable benefits?

The simple fact is, Nvidia has recognized most of the world -- including most gaming and hardware enthusiasts -- are still on AGP systems. These 7800GS benchmarks are proving there's a lot of life left in the "old" technology. E.g. in some cases, minimum FPS at 1600x1200 with all eye candy is bettered by 50% with the new card. Why begrudge these people a decent upgrade?

It should also be noted ATI's financials have been in the shitter ever since they announced abandonment of AGP. Coincidence? Maybe.
February 1, 2006 12:06:30 PM

This is good new. More choice is alweays a good thing. I will reserve my judgement on this card until I see some more reviews against other AGP AND PCIE cards.
CHeck Google for more info
February 1, 2006 5:25:10 PM

I don't think ATI is going to fire back with anything. AGP is dead.
While it is a good competitor to to the 850XT, the 7800gs doens't beat it in all games. As you can see the X850 Xt still holds its own in Far Cry and CounterStrike.

I wonder why it looses in HDR? :?

Either way, Here you have a crippled current generation card
that can barely beat a last generation ati.

I think we can all agree on that this should have been the 7800gt AGP. :twisted:
February 1, 2006 5:55:58 PM

Quote:

I think we can all agree on that this should have been the 7800gt AGP. :twisted:


EXACTLY.

Why waste a 7800 GPU by crippling 8 pipelines?

A 7800 GT would have raised the performance bar for the AGP platform and made it viable. Now, the best you can hope for is to spend an extra $100 over an X850 XT so that you can get equal performance and some good overclocking ability.

A 7800 GT would have been something to celebrate in AGP, but this? Why bother?

They'd have done AGP owners a bigger favor by making the AGP 6800 GS with the new 90nm part instead of old crippled 6800 GT/Ultra cores. Only an Nvidiot is going to spend an extra $100 more than an X850 XT for this card.

If they can lower the price to below $250, then it'd be a nice deal. But $350? It's a joke.
February 1, 2006 6:20:45 PM

I'll take 7800GS over the X850 XT if only for the SM3.0 support and being able to use ForceWare over Catalyst. A few FPS either way doesn't mean a hell of a lot to me.

In emails from NV marketing they're made some muted grumbling about 7800GT, and even G71/7900 for AGP.

Y'all can sit there and claim "AGP is dead". Fact is, 55% of video card sales in 2005 were AGP, and NV is simply continuing to service this sizeable market. It's far from dead.
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 6:31:30 PM

Quote:
I can see it now, hundreds of people putting this GF7800GS on their P4 1.8ghz rig expecting to get wonderful performance now in Quake4. :roll:


Uh, hundreds? How bout the million or so IC7 owners? And that's just a single motherboard from a single manufacturer.

And I was being pretty specific now perhaps I shoulda said S423 P41.8 to be even more anal retentive for you luddites! There's millions of MAC owners out there, it still doesn't make them gamers or worthy of wasting R&D monies on.

Quote:
Many of us have spent a LOT of time and 1000's of $ building Socket478/P4 systems that blow the doors off Prescott/PCI-E boxes,


And come nowhere near the performance of the same part on a cheap AMD on a cheap ULi MoBo. Give it a rest about the $1000+, it's the MoBo and the CPU that are holding you back, especially if you're using DDR instead of RDRAM! :roll:

That $100 premium for this card, is a waste of money for a Crippled piece of crap simply so you can have an AGP card. It's like the loser n00bs who buy and FX5200SE with 256MB Ram to replace their GF4ti because it's got DX9 (and 8.1) and more ram. Seriously, better options exist.

Quote:
Are we (non-SLI'ers) supposed to gut our systems just to go from AGP8X to PCI-E 16X, with no discernable benefits?


No decernable benifits is the speak of the luddite who won't quite his prefered rig. Biggest discernable benifit, consolidation of production lines.

Quote:
The simple fact is, Nvidia has recognized most of the world -- including most gaming and hardware enthusiasts -- are still on AGP systems.


No gaming and hardware enthusiasts are on PCIe or want to move at their first upgrade opportunity, those who pretend to be enthusiast want to hold on to their past and put a turbo on their yugo.

Quote:
These 7800GS benchmarks are proving there's a lot of life left in the "old" technology.


No compared to the CHEAPER GF7800GTX and even Cheaper GT, it shows that those old systems and the interface / HSI restrictions hamstring a good card into something that barely outperforms last generations card, and even then sometimes loses. If the card were cheaper I'd say it's worth a last hoora for anyone waiting for the R600/G80, otherwise it's an exercise that simply proves my point, AGP is now only for workstations and casual users. the only people I respect who have AGP are those looking to upgrade when it makes sense, and at this price, this card is the wrong upgrade path by a long shot as it's a dead end.

Quote:
E.g. in some cases, minimum FPS at 1600x1200 with all eye candy is bettered by 50% with the new card.


No it didn't the comparison was ATi versus nV, compare some nV benchies and see if those min FPS weren't already in that corner. And it still begs the question of what the difference in processor & mobo would make.

Quote:
Why begrudge these people a decent upgrade?


Because, first it's NOT a decent upgrade, this is the "64/128bit-SE version" of upgrades (until Wusy proves otherwise that it would be a "256-bitSE" with modable potential), and second it's focus that would better be spent on getting me the G80/R600, heck even the X1700 and nV equivalent. Agp is dead, and there are card there to satisfy that segment, as the X850 showed it's still quite capable of keeping up with this 'new' card.

Quote:
It should also be noted ATI's financials have been in the shitter ever since they announced abandonment of AGP. Coincidence? Maybe.


It should be noted you don't know WTF you're talking about, think you're an enthusiast, and support AGP. Coincidence? Maybe

Since their financials dropped around the time they launched the X700AGP and continued through the X850AGP series, and still did not have a massive turn around with the X1300/1600 AGP, I would say it was their dedication to wasting momney on AGP that cost them, instead of having one production line. So thank you for illustrating my point with your mistake/ignorance. And if anyone abandoned AGP it's nV since this is their first card to come out in all that time, and even then it was their OEM Partner's pushing for this solution, not nV, since they had nothing to compete against ATi's X8 series which is equally dead-ended Seriously keep your Fanboi junk out of this because it's not ATi versus nV, but AGP vs PCIe or more appropriately Luddite versus enthusiast.

You can put a Turbo on your Yugo, but personally I'd prefer something that makes sense for the money I'm spending and gives me best price/performance.

Next thing someone's gonna crack out a "Why won't F.E.A.R. play on my 286?" thread!

You're holding back progress you luddites. Go smash the PPU machinery not the wheels of VPU progress.

Die AGP Die , Die n00b Die!
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 6:33:39 PM

Quote:
I'll take 7800GS over the X850 XT if only for the SM3.0 support and being able to use ForceWare over Catalyst. A few FPS either way doesn't mean a hell of a lot to me.


Like Cleeve said;

Only an Nvidiot...

I think hit hit the nail right on the head.
February 1, 2006 6:48:10 PM

Well, this thread is approaching downtown Trollville, so I'll back out now.

Parting shot to Ape: Read ATI's financial reports for FY2005 and get your head out of your ass. The primary reason cited for their poor performance had zilch to do with AGP and everything to do with anemic PCI-E sales. The market, predictably, doesn't see a compelling reason to gut perfectly fine, perfectly fast AGP systems just to make a relative handful of gamers (or YOU) happy.

Bottom line and end of story, at least for now.
February 1, 2006 7:20:15 PM

I agree with you mostly; but what I don't understand is this. Why the hell does Nvidia make new AGP cards, when they stopped making the decent ones they had? You can no longer get a 6800 GT or 6800 Ultra for AGP.
In my opinion they should have just continued the Geforce 6800 GT and Ultra for AGP instead of wasting money on "Creating" a new AGP card.
February 1, 2006 7:51:56 PM

Quote:
I'll take 7800GS over the X850 XT if only for the SM3.0 support and being able to use ForceWare over Catalyst.


I'd take one over an X850 too, if both were $250.
But they aren't the same price at all...

At $100 difference, you'd be crazy to pick the 7800 GS.
For $350, you'd be better off getting a $270 7800 GT, buying an $80 PCI-e mobo and migrating your CPU. Jeez, they even have socket 754 PCI-e mobos out there. And if you've got an AthlonXP or old P4, sell it on ebay and buy a new one for chrissake.

$350 for a new AGP card is retarded.

Or to make myself perfectly clear, let me put it this way:
There is nothing wrong with a 7800 GS;
But there is something horribly wrong with a 7800 GS for $350.

It doesn't even approach something remotely similar to value in this universe.
Basically, it's Nvidia pimping their 7800 name to poor uninformed AGP users who think they're achieving performance parity with top-end PCI-express cards...
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 7:57:49 PM

Quote:
Parting shot to Ape: Read ATI's financial reports for FY2005 and get your head out of your ass


Which doesn't fit your criteria, like I said they had ALL the bases covered for AGP. Weak PCIe sales were felt on both side, but AGP didn't bolster it's end either as ATI dominated that market and had supply. So what's your argumet again? Perhaps before the X700AGP launched then you'd have a point bu 2005 was the year ATi had AGP all over the market from the R9xxx series to the X700, X800 (with it's 10 variants), and X850. Either way, you're wrong, regardless of what you misread from the quaterly/annual report. Since ATi had more AGP than anyone else, your interpretation doesn't match now does it?

Next time tell me about how companies shouldn't launch new technology because it costs money. Simply put your argument would have everyone still using ISA cards. That has enthusiast written all over it.

Quote:
The market, predictably, doesn't see a compelling reason to gut perfectly fine, perfectly fast AGP systems just to make a relative handful of gamers (or YOU) happy.


You miss the whole point, the AGP market doesn't NEED new cards, however the bleeding edge does. The 'market' doesn't support companies that don't inovate and no matter how much you whine about your tired system, that will never change.

For the price it costs you to buy this crippled AGP GF7800GS you could buy a PCIE equipped S478 MoBo and GF7800GT and outperform it in every test, and once you do finally step out of the dark ages and move to a better system, you won't have to abndone your non-crippled card, to do so. And even if you finally learn to upgrade, then your full-power GT will be worth more in resale than that crippled, outdated GS. Anyway you try and spin it, this card is too little too late, and for too much money.
February 1, 2006 8:04:10 PM

Quote:
Anyway you try and spin it, this card is too little too late, and for too much money.

I agree 100%. What I don't understand Nvidia discontinued the AGP 6800 GT and 6800 Ultra, just to replace it with a crap 7800 GS.
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 9:09:36 PM

Quote:

I'd take one over an X850 too, if both were $250.
But they aren't the same price at all...

Or to make myself perfectly clear, let me put it this way:
There is nothing wrong with a 7800 GS;
But there is something horribly wrong with a 7800 GS for $350.


Exactly. The GS is LESS of a card for more money. A GT+New Mobo makes more sense, even for those stoic S478 owners.

Rememebr the AGP+PCIe, it's only $58, C'mon!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813157075

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130256

That combination equals better performance than just adding the crippled GS alone. And you likely add a lot of features your old MoBo didn't have.
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 9:12:35 PM

Quote:

I agree 100%. What I don't understand Nvidia discontinued the AGP 6800 GT and 6800 Ultra, just to replace it with a crap 7800 GS.


Yeah, and I doubt that this is saving nV much money or the OEM partners either since they have to pay extra to ADD the HSI bridge to the GF7800 card. This card will never be cheaper for nV to make than a regular GT, unless they really scrimp on the memory, thus making the card even worse still.
February 1, 2006 9:16:33 PM

Nvidia is crap right now. Thanks to the discontinuing of the 6800 GT and 6800 Ultra, I was forced to tell a friend to buy a Vanilla 6800 for 180$! Although he did get a very nice heatsink so it overclocks well.
February 1, 2006 9:32:51 PM

hi cleeve when did u get the X1800XL?

Hows it going you done a benchmark in 06 yet?

ur cpu score looks a little low what core is that?

is the XL OC?
February 1, 2006 10:18:45 PM

lol ati just screwed all the ppl who bought x1800s by releasing the x1900 so shortly after..
February 1, 2006 10:24:24 PM

LOL no they didn't, they just made a whole lot more money.
February 1, 2006 10:26:08 PM

Quote:
LOL no they didn't, they just made a whole lot more money.


that doesnt mean tthat ppl who bought the x1800 arent pissed cuz they could have a x1900 right now..for the same amount of dough that they blew on the x1800 a month ago
February 1, 2006 10:34:57 PM

true.. but yeah
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 11:04:53 PM

Quote:
http://ckturbo128.proboards4.com/index.cgi?board=comput...

I wonder if ATI will bother coming up with an AGP competitor, now that the X850 XT PE has been dethroned.

Anyway this is great news for those of us who're heavily invested in AGP systems.


Are you still here? You should learn to use the search feature as I posted this same link back on Sunday in this 7800GS AGP thread.

This card is less than I hoped for (wanted 7800GT or X1800), but still good news IMO. Seeing how an OC'ed BFG version doesn't walk all over the X850XT (ATI's third from best AGP behind the 2 platinum editions), the lower clocked reference GS's may lose to a X850XT. We shall see. I am happy for more AGP as I have too many gameable A64, AXP, and P4C AGP systems for AGP to die just yet. I like to upgrade the best system and pass the other cards down, so i am in no hurry to move to PCI-e.

I just hope prices quickly go south. I mean in the USA we could buy AIW X800XT for $230 and X850XT for $200 within the past couple weeks. SO $350 is too high since we won't be talking 7800GT performance. I'd pay $350 for a 7800GT AGP, but no...NV wanted to force PCI-e for that level of performance. Oh well, I really need to see real reviews before commenting too much either way on the GS. Will it take the performance crown away from X850XTpe? Will it be priced cheaper than a 7800GT and NF4 mobo combo?
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 11:22:50 PM

Quote:


that doesnt mean tthat ppl who bought the x1800 arent pissed cuz they could have a x1900 right now..for the same amount of dough that they blew on the x1800 a month ago


And that's different than the GTX-512 how? Maybe a month's more grace.

That's hardware for ya', whatever you buy there will be something better shortly. Buyers' remorse in this industry is HUGE!

But if you keep waiting for what MIGHT arrive you never get around to playing any games because you still haven't upgraded your old Matrox Millenium, or in this thread's case your AGP mobo. :twisted:
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 11:25:41 PM

Quote:

Oh well, I really need to see real reviews before commenting too much either way on the GS.


Wait for reviews?

Pfft, why would you do that when we can guess now. Reviews will only discredit us or ruin the hype! :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
February 1, 2006 11:42:25 PM

"I wonder if ATI will bother coming up with an AGP competitor, now that the X850 XT PE has been dethroned. " :lol:  Yeah, I wonder...now that it's official :lol: 

Well, NV GF7 AGP...it must rule. Throw out your X800's all. Shoot, I just cut my UPC off the AIW X800XT for my rebate, and now the card is obsolete. NV ownz AGP!!!! ATI's heading toward bankruptcy. I'm off to cry now. :roll:

In all seriousness, if this had only been a 7800GT with the same specs as the PCI-e, then we could call it now no problem. But beating a 6800U as is claimed, doesn't mean it beats a X850XTpe. And shoot, will it even sweep a 6800U in all circumstances?
a b U Graphics card
February 2, 2006 12:11:29 AM

Quote:

In all seriousness, if this had only been a 7800GT with the same specs as the PCI-e, then we could call it now no problem.


Exactly, and even the 'throne' is made out of IronPyrite nowadays so I don't know if it's even worth fighting for. However had this been a GT, it would be a much different story. For I GT, I'd say it's worth one last kick at the can while waiting to make the leap to that new AMD M2, DDR2, G80/R600 system. But considering it's pirce, considering it's crippled, and considering it's performance isn't impressived even OC'ed, it loses alot of it's allure.

As mentioned in a few of my private conversations about this, I think it will do well in complex shader realm, and noticeably HDR once again proves to be fairly efficient on the GF7 series, so it might be interesting there. However considering the cost it just seems like a last gasp kick at a PR win, in a market that really would be better served by moving to that Mobo/GT combination I linked to earlier. Heck AGP+PCIe, takes all your worries away, and if only the GS were a GT equivalent, then you could put it in the AGP side of the equation if you so pleased.

Overall, still seems like a bizarre Liger, with little long term prospects.
February 2, 2006 8:13:21 AM

yeap, it really sucks launching a new high end card every 4-5 months
February 2, 2006 10:21:05 AM

i dont see how they screwed people up with a X1800, the x1900 is like double the price, its like saying i had a 6800ultra but i got screwed because nvidia released a 7800.
February 2, 2006 11:33:43 AM

What, I am still stoked about my HiS X1800XT...
It didn't get any slower from when I bought it.
February 2, 2006 1:45:34 PM

Quote:
hi cleeve when did u get the X1800XL?

Hows it going you done a benchmark in 06 yet?

ur cpu score looks a little low what core is that?

is the XL OC?


Got it pretty recently, last couple weeks... sold my 6800 Ultra on ebay and used the cash to get an X1800 XL All in wonder. Only $40 difference...

I did one 06 run, got 3400 I think, but I don't remember for sure, didn't publish it. That was stock.

That's a venice core 3400+ on socket 939. Same clocks as a 3500+, but with an 800 mhz hypertransport instead of 1000 mhz. I'll be oc/ing that REAL soon, but I need a bracket for my XP-90 cooler from Thermalright before I can use it. In the mail tho.

Yeah, the XL is overclocked. Check the sig (although I recently realized my 3dMark05 score is a bit misleading because it was done at 600/600, ran fine at that speed but the temps are higher than I like so I backed off to 575/575 until the Arctic-Cooling Accelero X2 is available in retail... should be at the end of this month. Then I'll be off to the races at 650/650...

Stock cooler sucks.

I'll get 8000+ 3dMarks out of this mofo yet...
!