Voltage + ? = Processor Frequency
- Thread starter joset
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- Dec 18, 2005
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Ok.
Let me put it another way: the 'multiplier' changes the FSB (in an Intel sys) input voltage, right? Now, even the FSB has to have a "clock" generator (just like my wristwatch has a piezo-electric crystal which sets its frequency...); and, you can change the processor's core voltage on its own. So, my point is: where's the «piezo-electric crystal» within the processor?
Just something i haven't been able to explain to myself... and probably, a simple & obvious... something.
Thanks for the attention.
Let me put it another way: the 'multiplier' changes the FSB (in an Intel sys) input voltage, right? Now, even the FSB has to have a "clock" generator (just like my wristwatch has a piezo-electric crystal which sets its frequency...); and, you can change the processor's core voltage on its own. So, my point is: where's the «piezo-electric crystal» within the processor?
Just something i haven't been able to explain to myself... and probably, a simple & obvious... something.
Thanks for the attention.
MadModMike
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Inside your chip, is what's known as a Crystal Clock (that's how I know it, that's not what it's really called), where it says "Hey, run at this speed!", and it does. This is what those programmers over at AMD and Intel spend time doing, I cannot say how they do it exactly, as I do not know, but that clock speed (200MHz on newer chips) is the set speed it runs at, and they introduce what's known as Clock Stepping (Multiplier) where it keeps pace the speed externally (Front Side Bus) and increases the speed internally (CPU). This was first introduced due to, I believe, thermal reasons (probably included others being this was years ago.)
The Multiplier changing does not change your voltage on its own, the multiplier simply increases the internal clock frequency of your chip (called overclocking ^_^). The part of the CPU where this Crystal Clock (as I call it) exists I do not know, but I'm sure if you ask nicely, somebody here will tell you ^_^. Not sure how much help this was, anybody else here please enlighten further if you know.
~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time.
The Multiplier changing does not change your voltage on its own, the multiplier simply increases the internal clock frequency of your chip (called overclocking ^_^). The part of the CPU where this Crystal Clock (as I call it) exists I do not know, but I'm sure if you ask nicely, somebody here will tell you ^_^. Not sure how much help this was, anybody else here please enlighten further if you know.
~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time.
linux_0
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- Dec 18, 2005
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MadModMike is correct! 
Changing the FSB or multiplier does not change the voltage.
Changing your voltage is doable on some OC friendly boards but is not recommended because increasing the voltage not only generates a lot more heat it can also cause stability problems, errors and could even fry your CPU.
If you decide to change your voltage make sure you do it in TINY increments and NEVER set it to more than +- 10%
Changing the FSB or multiplier does not change the voltage.
Changing your voltage is doable on some OC friendly boards but is not recommended because increasing the voltage not only generates a lot more heat it can also cause stability problems, errors and could even fry your CPU.
If you decide to change your voltage make sure you do it in TINY increments and NEVER set it to more than +- 10%
MadModMike
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Yes I am, I'm the fat guy with a jetpack on who goes around and pimps out computers with nvidia cards .
~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time.
.~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time.
MadModMike
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ak47is1337
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Ok, if you are overclocking, do this:
-Set CPU voltage to 1.5 since you probably have a venice core.
-Put hypertransport link at 3x, which is 3x the fsb and must equal at or under 1000. So for example, 5x200fsb would be safe, but 5x250 would not be stable.
-Remember to use memory dividers if necessary.
-Turn cool'n'quiet off.
-To get the desired clock speed, your FSB times your multiplier (in your case 10) will yield the ghz speed of the cpu, for example 200x10=2000mhz, or 2ghz.
By the way, 3200 venices will max out on air at 2.8. You probably won't even need to change the stock heatsink because they run so darn cool! I have one, and I bought an XP90 with a Vantec Tornado...needless to say it was overkill
-Set CPU voltage to 1.5 since you probably have a venice core.
-Put hypertransport link at 3x, which is 3x the fsb and must equal at or under 1000. So for example, 5x200fsb would be safe, but 5x250 would not be stable.
-Remember to use memory dividers if necessary.
-Turn cool'n'quiet off.
-To get the desired clock speed, your FSB times your multiplier (in your case 10) will yield the ghz speed of the cpu, for example 200x10=2000mhz, or 2ghz.
By the way, 3200 venices will max out on air at 2.8. You probably won't even need to change the stock heatsink because they run so darn cool! I have one, and I bought an XP90 with a Vantec Tornado...needless to say it was overkill
- Dec 18, 2005
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Thanks.
It is the part you don't know i would like to know!
Again, inside my wristwatch sits a tiny piezo-electric crystal, powered by an also tiny battery. This battery sends a [tiny!] voltage to the crystal which makes it 'tick'; each 'tick' is a cycle (measured in Hertz, Hz) per units of time (seconds, s). [More exactly, a 'tick-tack' is a cycle...]. There's one in each MB as well, called Real Time Clock (RTC), which does - exactly - the same thing as my wristwatch: measures time through crystal pulses. Everything's fine, up to here.
Now, is there something like this, inside the processor? I'm sure there is (otherwise...); but, WHAT?
[As for the 'Clock Stepping' (or 'Multiplier'), if you do increase it, you're also increasing the voltage supplied to it; the same with the FSB (on Intel sys...). It translates into more cycles/s = more Hz/s; the processor just 'tries' to keep in sync with the bus, through some... multiple.]
Still, my doubt remains.
Thanks, anyway.
It is the part you don't know i would like to know!
Again, inside my wristwatch sits a tiny piezo-electric crystal, powered by an also tiny battery. This battery sends a [tiny!] voltage to the crystal which makes it 'tick'; each 'tick' is a cycle (measured in Hertz, Hz) per units of time (seconds, s). [More exactly, a 'tick-tack' is a cycle...]. There's one in each MB as well, called Real Time Clock (RTC), which does - exactly - the same thing as my wristwatch: measures time through crystal pulses. Everything's fine, up to here.
Now, is there something like this, inside the processor? I'm sure there is (otherwise...); but, WHAT?
[As for the 'Clock Stepping' (or 'Multiplier'), if you do increase it, you're also increasing the voltage supplied to it; the same with the FSB (on Intel sys...). It translates into more cycles/s = more Hz/s; the processor just 'tries' to keep in sync with the bus, through some... multiple.]
Still, my doubt remains.
Thanks, anyway.
pat
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Simple. since the memory controller is intyegrated to the CPU, there is no need for FSB. Since it integrated in the CPU, the MC(memory controller) is connected directly to the memory from the CPU. With other system, the cpu has to take the "front" bus to the cchipset which contain the MC and the "side bus to the memory.
But the MC has to retain a connection to the rest of the system, so it needs to be connected to the chipset. this is the role of the Hypertransport link.
Understand that?
But the MC has to retain a connection to the rest of the system, so it needs to be connected to the chipset. this is the role of the Hypertransport link.
Understand that?
MadModMike
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Joset, I think you're not understanding something. On a processor, there is a clock setting inside the CPU programmed into it by a AMD or Intel programmer. It does not matter where this physically resides because you aint gonna edit it. On Intel and AMD cpu's the clock is set to 200MHz (excluding Extreme Edition and older CPU's). On Intel CPU's, they use a standard Front Side Bus where that 200MHz is sent 4 times per second (using all 4 sides of the Square Wave, also known as Quad Data Rate). On AMD64 CPU's, they use HyperTransport Links, which replace traditional Front Side Bus's and they also have the Memory Controller on the chip, vs. in the Northbridge on Intel CPU's.
The clock signal that runs at 200MHz is a pre-defined speed that is how fast your computer is running. Before there was no Multiplier (Clock Stepping), that was how fast your CPU ran, at w/e the speed was it was set to by the programmer (in this case, it's 200MHz). But because 200MHz is obviously not enough speed, and setting a crystal clock of 2GHz would melt the CPU, they introduce Clock Stepping where they are able to increase the times the 200MHz crystal pulses per second and also control the pulses of where and how it communicates to the Northbridge w/o destroying the CPU.
1 important thing to note is the multiplier inside the CPU that makes it operate at 3GHz has nothing to do with the multiplier on HyperTransport or the Quad Data Rate on Intel FSB, Clock Stepping is the increase in the speed of the internal clock (being the 3GHz in this case) and the FSB or HyperTransport is independent itself from the Clock Stepping inside the CPU, but only to the extent where the higher the multiplier, doesn't mean increase in speed to HyperTransport or Front Side Bus.
The HyperTransport links operate on either 200MHz with a 4x Multiplier (800MHz sent each way) or 5x Multiplier (1000MHz sent each way). Also, the traditional Front Side Bus is actually made up of 3 parts, a Data Bus, Address Bus, and a Command Bus. 1 thing to note is, only the Data Bus is sent 4x 200MHz for 800MHz FSB, the Address & Command Bus only operate at 1x 200MHz speed. On HyperTransport, all the information in those 3 bus's is stuffed into 64-bit packets sent on 16-bit wide bus's (1 each way, sent at the same time, vs Intel FSB where it's sent either direction at 1 time, not both at same time).
The Memory from the Memory Controller on Intel CPU's is accessed at 200MHz Double Data Rate (400MHz Effective) where it accesses RAM at 400MHz and receives at 400MHz, UniDirectional (not at the same time). On AMD64 CPU's, it accesses information at 1GHz and receives at 400MHz BiDirectional (at the same time). This allows less latency and combined with HyperTransport, the effiency and bandwidth of an AMD64 system vs. Intel P4 system, is greater on the AMD64. To sum it up, Intel CPU's have a Front Side Bus, AMD64 systems do not have a Front Side Bus, it has been replaced with HyperTransport.
On Intel systems, the Front Side Bus accesses the Northbridge which than accesses the Memory Controller inside the Northbridge and tells it to get what it needs from Memory, after it receives the information, it than takes the Front Side Bus back into the CPU to process the information. Whereas on AMD64 systems, the CPU directly accesses the Memory w/o needed to wait for the Northbridge to get the information from the Memory Controller, because the Memory Controller is already on the CPU in AMD64.
And for the record, Joset, Volts and Multiplier have no correlation to each other, other than the obvious of more power is needed for a higher frequency. If you are looking for a more indepth definition of how a computer processor works physically, you're going to have to look elsewhere, as you're hardpressed to find somebody here who knows that, unless they looked it up.
~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time.
The clock signal that runs at 200MHz is a pre-defined speed that is how fast your computer is running. Before there was no Multiplier (Clock Stepping), that was how fast your CPU ran, at w/e the speed was it was set to by the programmer (in this case, it's 200MHz). But because 200MHz is obviously not enough speed, and setting a crystal clock of 2GHz would melt the CPU, they introduce Clock Stepping where they are able to increase the times the 200MHz crystal pulses per second and also control the pulses of where and how it communicates to the Northbridge w/o destroying the CPU.
1 important thing to note is the multiplier inside the CPU that makes it operate at 3GHz has nothing to do with the multiplier on HyperTransport or the Quad Data Rate on Intel FSB, Clock Stepping is the increase in the speed of the internal clock (being the 3GHz in this case) and the FSB or HyperTransport is independent itself from the Clock Stepping inside the CPU, but only to the extent where the higher the multiplier, doesn't mean increase in speed to HyperTransport or Front Side Bus.
The HyperTransport links operate on either 200MHz with a 4x Multiplier (800MHz sent each way) or 5x Multiplier (1000MHz sent each way). Also, the traditional Front Side Bus is actually made up of 3 parts, a Data Bus, Address Bus, and a Command Bus. 1 thing to note is, only the Data Bus is sent 4x 200MHz for 800MHz FSB, the Address & Command Bus only operate at 1x 200MHz speed. On HyperTransport, all the information in those 3 bus's is stuffed into 64-bit packets sent on 16-bit wide bus's (1 each way, sent at the same time, vs Intel FSB where it's sent either direction at 1 time, not both at same time).
The Memory from the Memory Controller on Intel CPU's is accessed at 200MHz Double Data Rate (400MHz Effective) where it accesses RAM at 400MHz and receives at 400MHz, UniDirectional (not at the same time). On AMD64 CPU's, it accesses information at 1GHz and receives at 400MHz BiDirectional (at the same time). This allows less latency and combined with HyperTransport, the effiency and bandwidth of an AMD64 system vs. Intel P4 system, is greater on the AMD64. To sum it up, Intel CPU's have a Front Side Bus, AMD64 systems do not have a Front Side Bus, it has been replaced with HyperTransport.
On Intel systems, the Front Side Bus accesses the Northbridge which than accesses the Memory Controller inside the Northbridge and tells it to get what it needs from Memory, after it receives the information, it than takes the Front Side Bus back into the CPU to process the information. Whereas on AMD64 systems, the CPU directly accesses the Memory w/o needed to wait for the Northbridge to get the information from the Memory Controller, because the Memory Controller is already on the CPU in AMD64.
And for the record, Joset, Volts and Multiplier have no correlation to each other, other than the obvious of more power is needed for a higher frequency. If you are looking for a more indepth definition of how a computer processor works physically, you're going to have to look elsewhere, as you're hardpressed to find somebody here who knows that, unless they looked it up.
~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time.
MadModMike
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Thanks Linux_0, what I'm studying now is CPU Registers and more about the physical archtectures of them, I find the hardware to be the most interesting part of computers, and I seem to enjoy building PC's more than using them (lol weird eh?).
~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time.
~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time.
- Dec 18, 2005
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As Pat said and simply put, AMD implemented Hypertransport (HTT, not A64) as a dedicated, serial point-to-point, bi-dir interconnect bus (as a remark, AMD & partners made it 'open', meaning it can be further improved & adopted by those who adhere to the HTT Protocol...); it works much like PCIe and replaces the MCH (Memory Controller Hub, also known as the "Northbridge") in Intel-based systems, which use a parallel, shared bus (another note: Intel will, most probably, use the Common High-Speed System Interconnect (CSI), within two years from now...). HTT links memory directly to the Memory Controller, which resides in the chip's die.
For a light glimpse on HTT: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27317
A simplistic view on HTT... and my topic remains unresolved.
Cheers!
For a light glimpse on HTT: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27317
A simplistic view on HTT... and my topic remains unresolved.
Cheers!
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