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Yo boB.. some ultralight questions

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April 14, 2005 10:34:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Do these things have any place to stow luggage? How much?

The Challenger has a "telltale" (piece of string) taped to the windscreen.
What is that used for?

Can they heat the cabin?

Are the seats comfortable enough for a long ride?

And why do I see most pilots wearing a helmet? You don't see people in a
C152 wearing a helmet.


KDFW
April 14, 2005 10:51:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Oh, and..

What was it you didn't like about the Challenger II?

What did you think of their use of flaperons?


Dallas
April 14, 2005 12:41:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:

> Do these things have any place to stow luggage? How much?
>

Yea, the second seat. :)  Other than that you can take whatever you can
wear. In the Challenger there was some space behind the rear seat.


> The Challenger has a "telltale" (piece of string) taped to the windscreen.
> What is that used for?
>

Trim. Like the turn and slip gage, only cheaper. We had them on the
TH-55's I first learned in. Truth be told, it doesn't take many hours
before you can feel it in your butt when you're out of trim.


> Can they heat the cabin?

Not the model I flew. But there are some kits.

>
> Are the seats comfortable enough for a long ride?

Yep. The seat depends on how much padding you want. The worst seat I've
flown is in the aircraft I have the most time, the OH-58. It's a web
seat which must be maintained very tight to keep the crash survivability
of the seats.


>
> And why do I see most pilots wearing a helmet? You don't see people in a
> C152 wearing a helmet.
>

I don't know. But I think it's because most have wind in the face flying
and a helmet served two functions. Clear voice commo with your passenger
and whoever you wanted to talk to on the ground. A regular headset works
just as well but doesn't protect your head when you get in a bit of
turbulence. There's a steel bar behind you that you strike with your
head a few times a flight.


>
> KDFW
>
>


--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
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April 14, 2005 12:44:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:

> Oh, and..
>
> What was it you didn't like about the Challenger II?


I said I wasn't impressed. I thought it would be more like a Cessna 150
I guess and the controls weren't as tight as I would like.


>
> What did you think of their use of flaperons?
>

Flapper-whats???? Damn, I should have done a better pre-flight. :) 


>
> Dallas
>
>


--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 1:13:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

is an ultralight one with out a cabin and a microlight one with a cabin?

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"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:o 9o7e.5996$yq6.4387@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> Do these things have any place to stow luggage? How much?
>
> The Challenger has a "telltale" (piece of string) taped to the windscreen.
> What is that used for?
>
> Can they heat the cabin?
>
> Are the seats comfortable enough for a long ride?
>
> And why do I see most pilots wearing a helmet? You don't see people in a
> C152 wearing a helmet.
>
>
> KDFW
>
>
Anonymous
April 14, 2005 2:54:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

boB wrote:

> Trim. Like the turn and slip gage, only cheaper. We had them on the
> TH-55's I first learned in. Truth be told, it doesn't take many hours

> before you can feel it in your butt when you're out of trim.

Het, boB, perhaps you mean corrdination instead of trim? :)  An out
of trim flight condition would be felt in the controls (yoke, stick,
rudder pedals). An out of coordination (ailerons and rudder not
coordinated) flight condition would be felt in the seat of the pants
and appear in the yaw string.

Yaw strings are common in gliders, too.

--
Peter
April 14, 2005 10:39:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

pr wrote:

> boB wrote:
>
>
>>Trim. Like the turn and slip gage, only cheaper. We had them on the
>>TH-55's I first learned in. Truth be told, it doesn't take many hours
>
>
>>before you can feel it in your butt when you're out of trim.
>
>
> Het, boB, perhaps you mean corrdination instead of trim? :)  An out
> of trim flight condition would be felt in the controls (yoke, stick,
> rudder pedals). An out of coordination (ailerons and rudder not
> coordinated) flight condition would be felt in the seat of the pants
> and appear in the yaw string.
>
> Yaw strings are common in gliders, too.
>

Hi pr,

string, yaw, inclinometer, centered ball, all can be felt in the butt
before you see it on whatever indicator you use when flying an aircraft
with hydraulic assisted controls. An OH-58 has no hydraulics to the
pedals and yes, you can feel an out of coordination condition through
the pedals. But a Cobra, UH-1, etc, which has hydraulics to all the
flight controls, do not give you any indication of out of coordination
flight.

Papillon had one Bell 206B that not only had high skids (touching down
before I realized) but also had hydraulics to the pedals. Landing an
OH-58 in a gusty crosswind maintaining parking alignment is akin to
pedaling a bicycle. But with hydraulic where I had no feel in the pedals
was frustrating. I hated that B Model. Actually thinking about it, it
feels somewhat like flying a simulator helicopter. :) 

--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
April 14, 2005 11:10:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"pr"
> Yaw strings are common in gliders, too.

Common on sailboat sails too.

After 10 seconds of thought it makes perfect sense, in a yaw the telltale
will lean away from yaw side.

Now all ya need is a jar of oil on the eyebrow and you're IFR ready. :-)

Dallas
April 15, 2005 3:35:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Chris Harries wrote:

> is an ultralight one with out a cabin and a microlight one with a cabin?
>

Hi Chris

In the US an Ultralight is defined by weight, seats (one only), 5 gallon
gas tank max,, low stall speed,max airspeed and some other small
requirements. Microlights usually indicate a two seater. In the US, two
seaters are for "training only" I was a USUA flight instructor so all
my flights which weren't training related, were proficiency flights.
Running out of gas indicates lack of proficiency. :( 



Here's the FAA document covering it

http://www.usua.org/Rules/faa103.htm



Here is a quote from an ultralight FAQ


What are ultralights and microlights?

There are many classifications of "ultralights." The term, as it is used
in the Federal Aviation Regulations, applies to any vehicle, powered or
unpowered, which meets the definitions of FAR Part 103 (Ultralight
Vehicles). The terms "ultralight" and "microlight" are used in many
other countries to describe single and 2-seat planes flown primarily for
fun.

The terms include powered ultralights (fixed wing, Rotorcraft, powered
parachutes, etc.) and unpowered ultralights (hang gliders, paragliders,
sailplanes, balloons, etc.). FAR Part 103 definitions restrict weight,
speed, and fuel. The definitions currently apply only to single-seat
craft, with exemptions for two-seat craft that are used for
instructional purposes only.

Generally, the terms "ultralight" and "microlight" identify any
lightweight vehicle designed to operate at very low speeds. Therefore,
many vehicles commonly referred to as ultralights or microlight cannot
actually be operated under the special rules of FAR Part 103. To operate
these aircraft you currently need either an FAA exemption for flight
instruction or a federal airman certificate with a 3rd class medical.
You also need a biennial flight review, plus aircraft registration, and
an experimental airworthiness certificate For the Aircraft (see FAA Part
61 and 91 or your local traditional flight school at the municipal airport).

Why do people enjoy flying them?

There are many reasons why people choose to fly ultralights. Some of
these reasons include:

* Their lower cost.
* The minimal amount of training required. (No FAA license or
medical required.)
* The "wind in your face" experience.
* The ability to fly "low and slow."
* The desire to get back to simple "stick and rudder" flying.
* They're "just plain fun." It's pure, simple, recreational flying.

The best way to find out why folks love to fly ultralights is to contact
your local instructor and take an introductory lesson. Caution! This
sport is addictive.










--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
April 15, 2005 8:44:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB"
> Running out of gas indicates lack of proficiency. :( 


again ROTFLMAO... :-)

Varmit
April 15, 2005 11:31:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:

> "boB"
>
>>Running out of gas indicates lack of proficiency. :( 
>
>
>
> again ROTFLMAO... :-)
>
> Varmit
>
>


Probably no one remembers back when Bryant Gumble did a show about the
Grand Canyon and at the end he was asked if it was safe flying over the
canyon in helicopters. He didn't say yes but gave a look of concern.

Come to find out he was in one of our helicopters enroute to the bottom
of the canyon and he was wearing a headset and could hear our company
push. He overheard a radio call I sent to an aircraft behind me
reference some bad downdrafts when crossing Dragonhead. I did mention
that he would be pushed down only a thousand feet or so before he could
power out and to fit his headset tightly to help drown out the screams
from the passengers.

Found out later Mr. Gumble over heard the transmission.


--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 1:45:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 19:10:04 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>
>"pr"
>> Yaw strings are common in gliders, too.
>
>Common on sailboat sails too.
>
>After 10 seconds of thought it makes perfect sense, in a yaw the telltale
>will lean away from yaw side.
>
>Now all ya need is a jar of oil on the eyebrow and you're IFR ready. :-)
>
>Dallas
>
>

Gee, In all the years I have sailed and taught sailing, I always
thought the "telltale" string on a sailboat, was to indicate the
direction of the relative wind. ... Hmmmmm


Bob
April 15, 2005 10:22:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Bob Cordone wrote:


>>"pr"
>>
>>>Yaw strings are common in gliders, too.
>>
>>Common on sailboat sails too.
>>
>>After 10 seconds of thought it makes perfect sense, in a yaw the telltale
>>will lean away from yaw side.
>>
>>Now all ya need is a jar of oil on the eyebrow and you're IFR ready. :-)
>>
>>Dallas
>>
>>
>
>
> Gee, In all the years I have sailed and taught sailing, I always
> thought the "telltale" string on a sailboat, was to indicate the
> direction of the relative wind. ... Hmmmmm
>
>
> Bob


AAkkk, I have a "DAMED" sailboat story too. My first and ONLY time
sailing out of viewing distance from land. Maybe later. Bluebonnets to
see.

--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
April 15, 2005 11:56:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

boB wrote:
> Bob Cordone wrote:
>
>
>>> "pr"
>>>
>>>> Yaw strings are common in gliders, too.
>>>
>>>
>>> Common on sailboat sails too.
>>>
>>> After 10 seconds of thought it makes perfect sense, in a yaw the
>>> telltale
>>> will lean away from yaw side.
>>>
>>> Now all ya need is a jar of oil on the eyebrow and you're IFR ready.
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Dallas
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Gee, In all the years I have sailed and taught sailing, I always
>> thought the "telltale" string on a sailboat, was to indicate the
>> direction of the relative wind. ... Hmmmmm
>>
>>
>> Bob
>
>
>
> AAkkk, I have a "DAMED" sailboat story too. My first and ONLY time
> sailing out of viewing distance from land. Maybe later. Bluebonnets to
> see.
>

My favorite Sail boat story was in 1970. We were on a fair sized man
made lake. The boat was a 19 footer on board was myself and my in laws.
Father in law was teaching me how to sail.

It was near the end of our day and time to go in. I noticed that the
wind was coming straight off the dock. As we came even with the dock I
turned into it taking the wind out of my sails. My mother inlay grabbed
the painter and stepped on the dock to tie off the lines. I lowered the
sails with such a smile on my face:) )

That day I felt like I was flying with out a plane:) 

Mike
April 16, 2005 5:22:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

mike wheelock wrote:

> boB wrote:
>
>>
>> AAkkk, I have a "DAMED" sailboat story too. My first and ONLY time
>> sailing out of viewing distance from land. Maybe later. Bluebonnets
>> to see.
>>
>
> My favorite Sail boat story was in 1970. We were on a fair sized man
> made lake. The boat was a 19 footer on board was myself and my in laws.
> Father in law was teaching me how to sail.
>
> It was near the end of our day and time to go in. I noticed that the
> wind was coming straight off the dock. As we came even with the dock I
> turned into it taking the wind out of my sails. My mother inlay grabbed
> the painter and stepped on the dock to tie off the lines. I lowered the
> sails with such a smile on my face:) )
>
> That day I felt like I was flying with out a plane:) 
>
> Mike

That was good work. unfortunately I was just a weight on this boat
race. Had to lean way out over the side for some reason, I never did
figure it out.


--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
April 16, 2005 9:38:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Bob Cordone"
> Gee, In all the years I have sailed and taught sailing, I always
> thought the "telltale" string on a sailboat, was to indicate the
> direction of the relative wind. ... Hmmmmm

Never seen one used for that..
I've only seen telltales along the luff of the jib to fine tune the trim
when sailing angles between beating and beam reaching.

Dallas
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 4:15:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 05:38:13 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>"Bob Cordone"
>> Gee, In all the years I have sailed and taught sailing, I always
>> thought the "telltale" string on a sailboat, was to indicate the
>> direction of the relative wind. ... Hmmmmm
>
>Never seen one used for that..
>I've only seen telltales along the luff of the jib to fine tune the trim
>when sailing angles between beating and beam reaching.
>
>Dallas
>
>
>

Exactly, that tells you the relation between the wind and the sail.
Kind of like an AOA indicator in an aircraft.

Bob
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 7:14:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

boB wrote:
> mike wheelock wrote:
>
>> boB wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> AAkkk, I have a "DAMED" sailboat story too. My first and ONLY time
>>> sailing out of viewing distance from land. Maybe later. Bluebonnets
>>> to see.
>>>
>>
>> My favorite Sail boat story was in 1970. We were on a fair sized man
>> made lake. The boat was a 19 footer on board was myself and my in
>> laws. Father in law was teaching me how to sail.
>>
>> It was near the end of our day and time to go in. I noticed that the
>> wind was coming straight off the dock. As we came even with the dock
>> I turned into it taking the wind out of my sails. My mother inlay
>> grabbed the painter and stepped on the dock to tie off the lines. I
>> lowered the sails with such a smile on my face:) )
>>
>> That day I felt like I was flying with out a plane:) 
>>
>> Mike
>
>
> That was good work. unfortunately I was just a weight on this boat
> race. Had to lean way out over the side for some reason, I never did
> figure it out.
>
>
Thanks
Anonymous
May 23, 2005 1:46:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I bought the Bill Lyons Challenger a couple days ago and took it up for
several flights last night. Flight #2 of course ended prematurely when
I burned out the engine. A couple questions:

1. This thing is slow (best I got it up to was 70 mph IAS -- that's
miles per hour, not knots). Are there certain US airspaces in which it
would be illegal to fly? (Assuming you had a class-C transponder.)

2. Re. the telltale string: does it tell me anything I didn't already
know from the little ball on the dashboard?

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