3200+ Venice, Corsair 2,5-3-3-7 OC "problem"

[Comas]

I am having a little kind of problem OC'ing CPU or more like my memory. The thing is that I have tested my CPU at quite high speeds like 2700mhz with something like 1,475-1,500 voltage and it seems to run just fine. So I'm pretty happy with that even tho I'm quite sure it can go even higher if I up the voltage even more.

Anyways that isn't the problem: The problem is that when I OC my CPU, lets say 2600mhz, I can't run my RAM even on really slacky latencies like 3-5-5-10 on other than 133/266mhz on RAM. I understand that my RAM isn't the best for serious overclocking, but it just feels strange that even on a divider like 333mhz I can't run anything over 2550-2600mhz.

I'm just wondering have I forgot to adjust something from BIOS or is this just typical for RAMs like this.
I am pretty happy with my 24/7 overclock already though, 2450mhz, 1:1, 1,375v, but I really wished to go even further (typical overclockers-syndrome )

Please give me any tips how could I get my memory 333mhz on those higher CPU speeds. I don't think it gives much of a boost even when you could run your CPU at 2700mhz when your memory is 266mhz. I might be wrong though, but this is how I see it.

My whole setup is:

Asus A8N5X
AMD 3200+ Venice
2x512mb Corsair
Club 3D 7800GT
Seagate 200GB barracuda

 

[Jazzerman]

When you lower the clock speed on the RAM and up the FSB, it should up your mem speeds. What is the stock speed of your memory? 333mhz?

To check if your memory is running at the correct speed, and to check the latencies, try using CPU-Z.

So when you clock your memory speed down in the BIOS but up the FSB, your memory should run faster than you set it. If you check on CPU-Z you should check what speed your mem is meant to run at, and compare it when overclocked.

Also, did you change the voltage on your cpu to below stock? I also have a 3200 venice, and my stock voltage was 1.4v
Got mine overclocked to 2.4ghz atm, tried higher, but my memory is the most value that you can get and so I can't push it any higher. It probably runs at about 3-5-5-10 without an overclock :lol:

BTW those higher clock speeds do make a difference, when loading things, such as BF2 when loading a map, I notice about a 1-2 min difference in loading times.

 

[chuckshissle]

Try running the ram clock at 2T.

 

[Sargeras]

the mem speed depends on the fsb so if u put 133 div and 260 fsb your mem is running at 173 mhz

 

[Comas]

I have tried to run it 2T and I have actually put really lazy latencies on my mem, but I just can't run it at 333mhz. both of these sticks are totally same and they are supposed to run 2.5-3-3-8 at 400mhz.

One thing I noticed also is when I put my HTT to 265mhz or so it almost boots even with memory set as default (400mhz 2.5-3-3...)
Then when I tried to run it at 333mhz - nothing. I also tried to change my latencies all the way down, but it doesn't help. It doesn't boot at all.
under 266mhz it of course boots up easily without any problems.
It is just strange how 333mhz actually does worse in booting than 400mhz when the memory should be running at lower frequencies and it should more stable than 400mhz atleast. :?

I have tested the CPU running at 2650mhz and memory 2-2-2-5 at 266mhz, but that actually gives me a bit worse results than CPU running at 2400mhz with 400mhz and default latencies :?

 

[TheEldest]

Here's what you do.

The Corsair memory you have doesn't lend itself well to overclocking (of the memory). Also, the way the memory controller is designed on the Athlon 64 chips, you don't need to worry about having a good ratio between the memory and the processor. Don't worry about a divider.

Also, the way that the BIOS is set up in the A8N5X is kinda goofy. (same mobo as I have). When you set up a multiplier and frequency for your processor, most motherboards will take that frequency and a divider to decide at what frequency to run the RAM. Not our good ol A8N5X, take the multipler, and the frequency you choose, multiply them together to get your overall speed. I believe you said you've hit 2700mhz, but would like to go higher. Let's say 2800Mhz. (you had better have a good cooling system. otherwise that processor is gonna get quite hot; it's also the same as the one I have )

Now the A8N5X takes that 2800, divides it by 10, then multiplies it by the frequency you choose for the memory (400, 333, 266, etc) divided by 200.

So, if you want to hit 2800 without changing the memory speed, the actualy speed of the memory is going to be much greater.

x = (2800/10)*(400/200) = 560

This means that if you set the processor frequency to 350Mhz, the multiplier to 8x (giving a final frequency of 2800Mhz), set the memory's frequency to 400Mhz, the memory is actually being run at 560Mhz (actually, its running at 280Mhz, and is 'defined' as DDR560).


You can't do this. That ram can not handle it. It is barely suited to run at DDR400. To get close to it's rated 400, we'll need to work backwards. Here's the equation again, but I've replace the 400 by Mx (memory frequency we need to find), and x is replaced by 400 (the actual rating of your memory)

400 = (2800/10)*(Mx/200) -> Mx = (10/2800)*400*200 = 285.7

Given the two near options of 266 and 333:

333Mhz -> DDR466
266Mhz -> DDR372


You can go either way. If you run your memory as DDR372, you can also set some real tight timings.

You'd probably see more benefit going with the 333Mhz (DDR466), and just doing some loose timings. Something like 3-4-4-8-2T or 3-5-5-10-1T should probably work well.


The only other problem with all of this is that the A8N5X doesn't really like to provide that much juice to the processor. You tell it to give more, but when you actually measure the voltage, it's not quite what the bios said it was going to be. I've heard that putting a good sink on your NorthBridge really helps to get more voltage flowing, but I have yet to try it.


Another option, if you really want to overclock, and you've got a bit of money sitting around. You could trade in your Corsair memory for some new DDR500 (or similiar) memory. You can always run it slower, but if it's already rated to run that quick, it makes overclocking that much simplier.

 

[Comas]

Here's what you do.

The Corsair memory you have doesn't lend itself well to overclocking (of the memory). Also, the way the memory controller is designed on the Athlon 64 chips, you don't need to worry about having a good ratio between the memory and the processor. Don't worry about a divider.

Also, the way that the BIOS is set up in the A8N5X is kinda goofy. (same mobo as I have). When you set up a multiplier and frequency for your processor, most motherboards will take that frequency and a divider to decide at what frequency to run the RAM. Not our good ol A8N5X, take the multipler, and the frequency you choose, multiply them together to get your overall speed. I believe you said you've hit 2700mhz, but would like to go higher. Let's say 2800Mhz. (you had better have a good cooling system. otherwise that processor is gonna get quite hot; it's also the same as the one I have )

Now the A8N5X takes that 2800, divides it by 10, then multiplies it by the frequency you choose for the memory (400, 333, 266, etc) divided by 200.

So, if you want to hit 2800 without changing the memory speed, the actualy speed of the memory is going to be much greater.

x = (2800/10)*(400/200) = 560

This means that if you set the processor frequency to 350Mhz, the multiplier to 8x (giving a final frequency of 2800Mhz), set the memory's frequency to 400Mhz, the memory is actually being run at 560Mhz (actually, its running at 280Mhz, and is 'defined' as DDR560).


You can't do this. That ram can not handle it. It is barely suited to run at DDR400. To get close to it's rated 400, we'll need to work backwards. Here's the equation again, but I've replace the 400 by Mx (memory frequency we need to find), and x is replaced by 400 (the actual rating of your memory)

400 = (2800/10)*(Mx/200) -> Mx = (10/2800)*400*200 = 285.7

Given the two near options of 266 and 333:

333Mhz -> DDR466
266Mhz -> DDR372


You can go either way. If you run your memory as DDR372, you can also set some real tight timings.

You'd probably see more benefit going with the 333Mhz (DDR466), and just doing some loose timings. Something like 3-4-4-8-2T or 3-5-5-10-1T should probably work well.


The only other problem with all of this is that the A8N5X doesn't really like to provide that much juice to the processor. You tell it to give more, but when you actually measure the voltage, it's not quite what the bios said it was going to be. I've heard that putting a good sink on your NorthBridge really helps to get more voltage flowing, but I have yet to try it.


Another option, if you really want to overclock, and you've got a bit of money sitting around. You could trade in your Corsair memory for some new DDR500 (or similiar) memory. You can always run it slower, but if it's already rated to run that quick, it makes overclocking that much simplier.

Yes, I could try putting some sort of sink on the northbridge if that helps with the voltage. Maybe one of those Zalman's Northbridge chipsets? http://www.zalman.co.kr/

So every one of them works with my motherboard I assume, so there shouldn't be any problems.

I don't want to be rude, because I really appreciate your long message and it is very helpful, but I am not like a real ROOKIE anymore :lol: . I just have this problem with my motherboard. Because I CAN'T set it to 333mhz on the same speed with the memory as I was able with 400mhz.

Look this: DDR400 -----> 2500 MHZ with my corsair memory
DDR333 -----> 2500 MHZ with my corsair memory

The timings were default on both tests.

My only option to go for big overclockings is to put:

DDR266 -------> 2501 MHZ and above that with my corsair memory.
even though I should have a shot with 333mhz atleast to 2600mhz or so!

I hope you now understood the problem here, because Im not sure is this very common one :?

 

[TheEldest]

OK. I get the problem more now.

Sorry about my assumptions.

I had that memory for a short while, and tried to OC it quite a bit. I've also read many other reviews of the memory. And it's hit & miss. You can get some sticks that OC wonderfully, and sticks that OC terribly. The terrible ones won't want to OC at all, the good ones, you'd beable to get them running up to DDR500 with no problems, and even on pretty tight timings. That's one possibility.

Chances are, it's not the RAM that's causing problems. The Motherboard you (and I) have is quite fickle sometimes. I'm going to put a cooler on my northbridge, as I think I may have some problems with voltage not being quite consistant enough.

Depeding on your financial situation, I might recommend getting a different motherboard. Another good option is to try and get a different BIOS for it, I think that that's one thing holding us back. But there are many inherent problems with that route.



Where is your system unstable when you attempt higher settigs? It could be the processor. Are you running stock cooling on the processor? What power supply are you using? Do you have sufficient case coolihg?

Hmmm...


The best I can really get with my system is 2400MHz (240 x10 & 1.475v), DDR400 (333 divider @ 2-2-2-5-1T & 2.75v).

These are the best settings that have left me stable after running memtest overnight and Prime95 for more than 24 hours.

And I have the 3200+ Venice and G.Skill Extreme DDR 2x512MB 2-2-2-5 memory). Even if I start loosening up the timings, I won't beable to get any higher because I'm running stock cooling.

At least, I think that's the issue, but I'm not sure. So I'll put a new cooler on the cpu and stick a good cooler on my chipset. Then we'll go from there, if I still can't get good overclocks, then it's the motherboard.


On a side note. I've tried to see what the max oc's for my memory are, and the ones that I can manage on my system are far lower than what others with the same memory are managing. This is not a motherboard for serious overclocking.

 

[Comas]

Yes I have stock cooling myself too and have been planning on getting Zalman CNPS9500 now. I was also planning to buy some passive cooling system on the northbridge? Is that going to help it and maybe get the voltage flowing better? Or should I get active one? Does it matter?

I may be able to make it much further even with this motherboard when I get that Zalman. It may be also the heat which causes problems here. I have quite good case cooling though, but still I propably should have got better CPU cooler when I started OC'ing. Anyway, when are you planning to get those coolers and stuff and test if you can get any further with your overclocking?
It would be nice to know how you can make it with this board

I will inform you more when I buy that Zalman for my CPU and get the confirmation for that northbridge cooler (hopefully from you )

Cya

 

[Anoobis]

How much voltage are you giving the RAM?

 

[TheEldest]

Well, I would get the coolers and try them out, but I'll be moving to Yellowstone National Park in about a week, and I'll be there for the summer (working, summer job). So I won't have a computer with me to play with.

A better cooler on the Northbridge would increase stability. I think we need to beable to increase the voltage going to the Northbridge, but our BIOS doesn't allow that. So the best we can do is upgrade the cooler, thus allowing the chipset to do more with the voltage it gets.


Here are a couple coolers I was considering:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=371030

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=370679


I think I'm going to go with the first one, just because I am trying to run a relatively silent system.


And Anoois had a good question. What voltage is your RAM running at? If you want a high overclock, you'll need to bump it to 2.80v at the minimum. 2.85v & 2.90v aren't out of the question either, but you might want a heat spreader on the ram in that case.




PS: Here's what I'm considering for a CPU cooler:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=373500
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835106044

I'm torn between the two, I think the second one lends itself more to a silent system, but I'm not sure.

 

[Comas]

Yes but keeping in mind that this is Corsair's Value ram after all and I heard these RAMs do much better with low voltage, even the lowest possible. In Bios something like 2.70v? not sure, can't remember clearly now
But I did try with higher voltage too, but didn't have too much success with it. I think it's best to run these memories on really low volts.

I think I will go with that Zalman's passive northbridge cooler and CNPS9500, which I was planning before myself too

 

[TheEldest]

When I first installed my Corsair ValueSelect, I had problems on the 'default' settings (those chosen by the motherboard).

The voltage was set at 2.70v

I contacted Corsair customer support, and they told me to manually increase the volts to 2.80v. Then it worked.

They do well on low volts. But to me, that just means you should keep it below 3.00v.

 

[Comas]

Well thats weird, maybe I should give it a try with a bit higher volts then too :arrow:

 

[hashv2f16]

Please give me any tips how could I get my memory 333mhz on those higher CPU speeds. I don't think it gives much of a boost even when you could run your CPU at 2700mhz when your memory is 266mhz. I might be wrong though, but this is how I see it.

yeah, memory bandwidth goes down the drain at those low speeds.
i tested my system at 2.7ghz / 386MHz (lower than normal RAM speed), and 2.52ghz / 460MHz, the second configuration gave around a 2% better 3dmark05 score

 

[hashv2f16]

Well, I would get the coolers and try them out, but I'll be moving to Yellowstone National Park in about a week, and I'll be there for the summer (working, summer job). So I won't have a computer with me to play with.

A better cooler on the Northbridge would increase stability. I think we need to beable to increase the voltage going to the Northbridge, but our BIOS doesn't allow that. So the best we can do is upgrade the cooler, thus allowing the chipset to do more with the voltage it gets.


Here are a couple coolers I was considering:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=371030

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=370679


I think I'm going to go with the first one, just because I am trying to run a relatively silent system.


And Anoois had a good question. What voltage is your RAM running at? If you want a high overclock, you'll need to bump it to 2.80v at the minimum. 2.85v & 2.90v aren't out of the question either, but you might want a heat spreader on the ram in that case.




PS: Here's what I'm considering for a CPU cooler:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=373500
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835106044

I'm torn between the two, I think the second one lends itself more to a silent system, but I'm not sure.

on the first day of building my current system i instantly went out and bought the nb47j, just make sure you have a good amount of air blowing past it