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pda memory ALWAYS erased when I'm flying

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September 17, 2004 10:33:50 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

This is very strange, but too strange to be a coincidence. Anytime
I've taken a plane with my HP IPAQ (Pocket PC 2002) H2200 Series PDA,
the memory on it clears out. The only flight I take with any
regularity is JetBlue non-stop round-trip from Washington Dulles to
San Francisco. I'll notice that I won't be able to start my PDA while
in the air for some time (even using a soft restart). Then, when I
land, I'm able to use a soft restart, only to find that I need to
configure my device from scratch! Perhaps it serves me right for
bringing it on the plane. Does anyone have any ideas what's going on
or have had this happen to them?
September 17, 2004 1:45:09 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I know this may be not the right response, but are you joking, I am falling
off my chair, if this is a joke, kudos to you for a great gag, if it is
not, then this is just another pocket pc problem which is over the top, my
advice --- get a treo
"Dan" <danhicks333@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b03c5d2b.0409170533.517d219@posting.google.com...
> This is very strange, but too strange to be a coincidence. Anytime
> I've taken a plane with my HP IPAQ (Pocket PC 2002) H2200 Series PDA,
> the memory on it clears out. The only flight I take with any
> regularity is JetBlue non-stop round-trip from Washington Dulles to
> San Francisco. I'll notice that I won't be able to start my PDA while
> in the air for some time (even using a soft restart). Then, when I
> land, I'm able to use a soft restart, only to find that I need to
> configure my device from scratch! Perhaps it serves me right for
> bringing it on the plane. Does anyone have any ideas what's going on
> or have had this happen to them?
September 17, 2004 4:43:05 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On 17 Sep 2004 06:33:50 -0700, danhicks333@gmail.com (Dan) wrote:

>Does anyone have any ideas what's going on
>or have had this happen to them?

Yes, the same thing happened to me with a 5455; exactly. Take a look
at this Google thread titled:

'Ipaq 5455 - On Vacation With A $600 Paperweight':

http://tinyurl.com/6yu3c (This may bring you there directly)

A_C
Related resources
Anonymous
a b } Memory
September 17, 2004 10:30:12 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:0n4mk05o3etfmll5ai0bqjkv76rt01n5gg@4ax.com...
> On 17 Sep 2004 06:33:50 -0700, danhicks333@gmail.com (Dan) wrote:
>
> >Does anyone have any ideas what's going on
> >or have had this happen to them?
>
> Yes, the same thing happened to me with a 5455; exactly. Take a look
> at this Google thread titled:
>
> 'Ipaq 5455 - On Vacation With A $600 Paperweight':
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6yu3c (This may bring you there directly)
>
> A_C
>

the link fails for me.
September 17, 2004 11:01:29 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:30:12 +0100, "AlanS"
<news@remove.abyz.fslife.co.uk> wrote:

>the link fails for me.

Me 2, there's something wrong with TinyURL right now. Do a Google
Groups search for the following:

'Ipaq 5455 - On Vacation With A $600 Paperweight'

A_C
Anonymous
a b } Memory
September 18, 2004 1:53:53 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I suppose it is common knowledge that there has never been an odd issue with
a Treo or any other Palm based device.

I would rule out the security screening. My PPCs (one a 2215), and many that
I know of, regularly are subjected to both the personal item X-Ray and the
checked luggage one. It even went through Dulles a few weeks ago. Your
experience is unusual. I would suspect some anomaly with your particular
device, but beats me what. I could offer some odd-ball theory about pressure
differences and a marginally connected battery or something, but I'd contact
HP support. It has a year warranty and hopefully you have not been putting
up with this for over a year.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"bob" <bob@donotspam> wrote in message
news:exSBgWNnEHA.4056@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> I know this may be not the right response, but are you joking, I am
falling
> off my chair, if this is a joke, kudos to you for a great gag, if it is
> not, then this is just another pocket pc problem which is over the top, my
> advice --- get a treo
> "Dan" <danhicks333@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:b03c5d2b.0409170533.517d219@posting.google.com...
> > This is very strange, but too strange to be a coincidence. Anytime
> > I've taken a plane with my HP IPAQ (Pocket PC 2002) H2200 Series PDA,
> > the memory on it clears out. The only flight I take with any
> > regularity is JetBlue non-stop round-trip from Washington Dulles to
> > San Francisco. I'll notice that I won't be able to start my PDA while
> > in the air for some time (even using a soft restart). Then, when I
> > land, I'm able to use a soft restart, only to find that I need to
> > configure my device from scratch! Perhaps it serves me right for
> > bringing it on the plane. Does anyone have any ideas what's going on
> > or have had this happen to them?
>
>
Anonymous
a b } Memory
September 18, 2004 1:59:34 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Could it be the security scanning prior to boarding the Aircraft? I cant
think of much on the Plane that would cause this.

Mitch



"Dan" <danhicks333@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b03c5d2b.0409170533.517d219@posting.google.com...
> This is very strange, but too strange to be a coincidence. Anytime
> I've taken a plane with my HP IPAQ (Pocket PC 2002) H2200 Series PDA,
> the memory on it clears out. The only flight I take with any
> regularity is JetBlue non-stop round-trip from Washington Dulles to
> San Francisco. I'll notice that I won't be able to start my PDA while
> in the air for some time (even using a soft restart). Then, when I
> land, I'm able to use a soft restart, only to find that I need to
> configure my device from scratch! Perhaps it serves me right for
> bringing it on the plane. Does anyone have any ideas what's going on
> or have had this happen to them?
Anonymous
a b } Memory
September 18, 2004 3:53:54 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

First, it shouldn't be happening... might be related to sending it
through a scanner, so see if it's acceptable to hand inspect it.

Second, everyone who travels with a ppc should be using a backup to
storage utility. It was a $600 paperweight more because a restore was
not available than as a result of the memory being cleared... it's a
matter of seconds for both backing up and restoring since a backup can
be started and forgotten as ppc's will power down after it's finished.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
Anonymous
a b } Memory
September 18, 2004 4:53:46 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:b4rmk09tjj1domcd8stm7sq805nkg8bbvm@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:30:12 +0100, "AlanS"
> <news@remove.abyz.fslife.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >the link fails for me.
>
> Me 2, there's something wrong with TinyURL right now. Do a Google
> Groups search for the following:
>
> 'Ipaq 5455 - On Vacation With A $600 Paperweight'
>
> A_C
>

ty
September 18, 2004 5:35:28 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:53:54 -0500, "Beverly Howard
[Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:

>First, it shouldn't be happening... might be related to sending it
>through a scanner, so see if it's acceptable to hand inspect it.

Read the accounts... It worked fine IN FLIGHT. The only common
denominator in my case, was cabin DE-compression.

>Second, everyone who travels with a ppc should be using a backup to
>storage utility. It was a $600 paperweight more because a restore was
>not available than as a result of the memory being cleared... it's a
>matter of seconds for both backing up and restoring since a backup can
>be started and forgotten as ppc's will power down after it's finished.

I hope your not making an argument for this being anything but
completely unacceptable. I would never use a device that I had to go
through that dance with every time I took it on a airplane. And guess
what; full restores from backup aren't always that clean and snappy.
Especially with programs like Worldmate, that lose all their parms.

Bottom line... It's a HUGE hassle when something like this happens!

A_C
September 18, 2004 10:32:39 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

I think the response was reasonable with regards to the backup. Many people
in this forum request help on a SD card backup, which is a reasonable
solution. The iPAQ backup on my 4355 seems to work fine each time and I
think it is a part of the Sprite product.

Many of us have not flown and tried to use our PPCs ... therefore your
problem is something for others to keep in mind. But also since we seem to
often have to self-help each other with regard to these wonderful little
devices ... testing a restore in mid-air would be logical to attempt a quick
recovery for the paperweight.

--
____________________
Ann
"Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:iqhnk09628j2mtbmmlmuub18gp6sps5t8b@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:53:54 -0500, "Beverly Howard
> [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:
>
>>First, it shouldn't be happening... might be related to sending it
>>through a scanner, so see if it's acceptable to hand inspect it.
>
> Read the accounts... It worked fine IN FLIGHT. The only common
> denominator in my case, was cabin DE-compression.
>
>>Second, everyone who travels with a ppc should be using a backup to
>>storage utility. It was a $600 paperweight more because a restore was
>>not available than as a result of the memory being cleared... it's a
>>matter of seconds for both backing up and restoring since a backup can
>>be started and forgotten as ppc's will power down after it's finished.
>
> I hope your not making an argument for this being anything but
> completely unacceptable. I would never use a device that I had to go
> through that dance with every time I took it on a airplane. And guess
> what; full restores from backup aren't always that clean and snappy.
> Especially with programs like Worldmate, that lose all their parms.
>
> Bottom line... It's a HUGE hassle when something like this happens!
>
> A_C
>
>
Anonymous
a b } Memory
September 18, 2004 10:36:00 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

"AlanS" <news@remove.abyz.fslife.co.uk> wrote in news:cifmid$unh$2
@news5.svr.pol.co.uk:

>
> "Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:0n4mk05o3etfmll5ai0bqjkv76rt01n5gg@4ax.com...
>> On 17 Sep 2004 06:33:50 -0700, danhicks333@gmail.com (Dan) wrote:
>>
>> >Does anyone have any ideas what's going on
>> >or have had this happen to them?
>>
>> Yes, the same thing happened to me with a 5455; exactly. Take a look
>> at this Google thread titled:
>>
>> 'Ipaq 5455 - On Vacation With A $600 Paperweight':
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/6yu3c (This may bring you there directly)
>>
>> A_C
>>
>
> the link fails for me.
>
>
>


Worked fine here (today, at least).. any sign of DNS maintenance in your
area?






--
======================
ACE!!! a.k.a. ~S.
OS. Osaris / Psion 5mx
iPAQ 5550 / Nokia 6310
HTTP://www.xarane.com
======================
Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/HPWMK3SE/petition.html
11073 Total Signatures on Friday, Sep. 10th 2004!
HP 'Windows Mobile 2003 SE Support' Forum:
http://forums.itrc.hp.com/service/forums/questionanswer...
Anonymous
a b } Memory
September 18, 2004 10:15:03 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

>> Read the accounts... It worked fine IN FLIGHT. The only common
denominator in my case, was cabin DE-compression. <<

Your accounts were not accessable... only the OP, so, my response was to
his message, threaded from his message and relevant to what he posted.

>> Should not be happening <<

Can't even speculate on the number of PPC's that are used around the
world in aircraft without any trace of problems, and while this specific
model may have something in the design that is causing this (for
example, a componet flexing because of pressure differences) I stand by
my statement that it "should not be happening" and that it is happening
indicates that either the unit or the design is defective and the
resolution/recourse path is with HP.

>> backup <<

That statement had nothing to do with the OP's specific problem but to
the reality of any device that uses battery powered ram for storage and
maintiaing configuration.

There are a host of reasons that can and do result in total loss of data
and configuration across the entire ppc spectrum so that if anyone
depends on the contents of their ppc when mobile and does not use
"backup to memory card" and does not keep that backup current, they will
eventually end up with a "paperweight" until they can get to a place
where they can restore or reload.

I have had multiple cases where I have experienced an accidental "clean
start" and on all I have been back up close to the state of my last
backup within a couple of minutes after finding the reset had happened.

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
September 19, 2004 12:54:08 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 18:15:03 -0500, "Beverly Howard
[Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote:

>There are a host of reasons that can and do result in total loss of data
>and configuration across the entire ppc spectrum so that if anyone
>depends on the contents of their ppc when mobile and does not use
>"backup to memory card" and does not keep that backup current, they will
>eventually end up with a "paperweight" until they can get to a place
>where they can restore or reload.

Believe me, I wouldn't debate the relative merits of having a backup.
I now keep one on an SD card, always. But in the context of having to
do a full restore after each and every flight, it's completely
ridiculous.

Picture disembarking a crowded 747 after a 7-hour flight, with your
carry-on baggage in one hand and your PDA in the other. Relying on it
for hotel reservations… your pickup's cell phone number… return flight
info for customs… etc., then it's suddenly dead in your hand. The last
thing I needed to deal with, in this chaotic environment, was a full
restore. Believe me, I came this {} close to throwing it against the
wall - real hard!

This cabin pressure anomaly happened to me with two (2) different HP
models; a 5455 and a 4350. In the latter case I had a full backup, so
it wasn't too much of an issue. Running a full restore however, wreaks
havoc with the Outlook calendar initially, because it resets the date
backward and not all parms from all applications are restorable. I was
greeted with dozens of appointment reminders and had to re-configure
Worldmate. Bottom line, it's something you have to sit down and 'do'
that you may, or may not, have time or patents for when disaster
strikes.

Something like an iPAQ is only useful if it has a very high degree of
reliability. Unfortunately, not all HP models have proven to live up
to that standard.

Regards,

A_C
Anonymous
a b } Memory
September 21, 2004 1:51:23 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Until this is resolved, if you are not using a backup program that is in
ROM (think your's has one in rom) put a copy of the backup program's cab
file on the memory card.

Once done, a restore is as simple as using file explorer to find and tap
the cab, then starting the backup app, selecting restore, tap the backup
file and put it back in your pocket until it completes... softer
solution than a wall.

From my experience, depending on the backup app, the only real issues
are file dates on restored file, default files that you have previously
deleted, and timestamps on pim data (watch out on next sync!)

When you set the clock and what you set it to can have a major impact on
the first sync.

HTH,
Beverly Howard
September 21, 2004 2:28:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

A> This cabin pressure anomaly happened to me with two (2) different HP
A> models; a 5455 and a 4350. In the latter case I had a full backup, so
A> it wasn't too much of an issue. Running a full restore however, wreaks
A> havoc with the Outlook calendar initially, because it resets the date
A> backward and not all parms from all applications are restorable. I was
A> greeted with dozens of appointment reminders and had to re-configure
A> Worldmate. Bottom line, it's something you have to sit down and 'do'
A> that you may, or may not, have time or patents for when disaster
A> strikes.

A> Something like an iPAQ is only useful if it has a very high degree of
A> reliability. Unfortunately, not all HP models have proven to live up to
A> that standard.

A> Regards,

A> A_C

Is this memory loss a HP only problem?



Bye
Marcel <no@spam.nl>
Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:47:10 +0200

=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
September 21, 2004 2:28:02 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 22:28:01 +0200, Marcel <no@spam.nl> wrote:

>Is this memory loss a HP only problem?

I haven't heard any reports of memory loss related to cabin pressure
on any other PPC hardware platform.

A_C
Anonymous
a b } Memory
September 21, 2004 2:55:39 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

And at this point only have yours on those two specific PPCs. Not families,
those two specific PPCs. I gathered from the thread you actually got the
5555 replaced by HP, overnighted. Did that new unit exhibit the same issues?
You mention cabin de-compression, isn't that that thing where the oxygen
masks fall out? What sort of airline do you frequent? Or are you talking of
some other phenomena. How about the 4350? Was that a one time thing, did
you get it replaced.

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:k6huk013srnju163vi86dic77tpgli421q@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 22:28:01 +0200, Marcel <no@spam.nl> wrote:
>
> >Is this memory loss a HP only problem?
>
> I haven't heard any reports of memory loss related to cabin pressure
> on any other PPC hardware platform.
>
> A_C
>
>
September 21, 2004 10:26:54 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 22:55:39 -0600, "Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices"
<sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote:

>And at this point only have yours on those two specific PPCs. Not families,
>those two specific PPCs.

I don't believe in coincidences or miracles. If it happened to me
twice and also happened to the other individual who started this
thread, it's happening to others, let's not be naive.

> I gathered from the thread you actually got the
>5555 replaced by HP, overnighted. Did that new unit exhibit the same issues?

I didn't keep it long enough to find out and if you notice, HP didn't
keep that line in production very long at all. This, along with a
litany of other problems with the 54xx/55xx line, I'm sure, influenced
that decision greatly.

>You mention cabin de-compression, isn't that that thing where the oxygen
>masks fall out?

No, what you describe is 'loss of cabin pressure'. Cabin
de-compression is when the plane descends from cruising altitude to
come in for a landing. The pressure slowly adjusts down to seal level
(cabin pressure is equivalent to about 10,000 feet) - It's the point
at the end of the flight, when your ears pop.

> What sort of airline do you frequent?
>Or are you talking of some other phenomena.

The first case was a Virgin Airlines 747. The second was a Lufthansa
Airbus A320.

>How about the 4350? Was that a one time thing,
>did you get it replaced.

It occurred only once on the 4350.

Don't get me wrong, I don't pretend to know what's causing this. I
just know the phenomena exists.

A_C
Anonymous
a b } Memory
September 22, 2004 1:15:59 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

Actually that's kind of what I figured. I would tend to discount coincidence
too, but wouldn't be so quick to assume that is what's happening to the OP.
I don't think it's naive to question the statistical significance of three
accounts out of the thousands of HP PPCs that regularly fly. The only
conclusion I would draw from the instances all involving HPs is that there
are significantly more HPs out there. I'm not discounting the fact that it
happened, and that it shouldn't have. HP was apparently happy to replace
your device, as I'm sure they would for the OP, if he hasn't put up with the
issue for over a year already. The issue's relationship to air travel is
interesting and the culprit being pressure changes makes the most sense. If
it were a basic design issue, you'd certainly hear about it more. I'd
suspect an odd component problem, and most likely in the battery. That
sealed unit has a decent potential for reacting to pressure changes, and has
a good chance of causing a hard reset if it flakes out.

You're a little off on the cabin pressure, BTW. Federal aviation regs
prescribe a maximum of 8000, and typically it ranges between 5 and 8. You'd
have a significant number of folks with altitude sickness at 10,000'. I did
check the 4100/4300 manual and it indicates you should be able to operate it
up to15,000' ;)  Incidentally my HPs work consistently at 7,000'. That's
where I live (well 6,900 but what's a 100').

--
Sven, MS-MVP Mobile Devices
"Agent_C" <Agent-C-hates-spam@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ijvvk01dbeb39s35odi40khsstplsqu1m0@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 22:55:39 -0600, "Sven, MVP-Mobile Devices"
> <sejohannsen@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >And at this point only have yours on those two specific PPCs. Not
families,
> >those two specific PPCs.
>
> I don't believe in coincidences or miracles. If it happened to me
> twice and also happened to the other individual who started this
> thread, it's happening to others, let's not be naive.
>
> > I gathered from the thread you actually got the
> >5555 replaced by HP, overnighted. Did that new unit exhibit the same
issues?
>
> I didn't keep it long enough to find out and if you notice, HP didn't
> keep that line in production very long at all. This, along with a
> litany of other problems with the 54xx/55xx line, I'm sure, influenced
> that decision greatly.
>
> >You mention cabin de-compression, isn't that that thing where the oxygen
> >masks fall out?
>
> No, what you describe is 'loss of cabin pressure'. Cabin
> de-compression is when the plane descends from cruising altitude to
> come in for a landing. The pressure slowly adjusts down to seal level
> (cabin pressure is equivalent to about 10,000 feet) - It's the point
> at the end of the flight, when your ears pop.
>
> > What sort of airline do you frequent?
> >Or are you talking of some other phenomena.
>
> The first case was a Virgin Airlines 747. The second was a Lufthansa
> Airbus A320.
>
> >How about the 4350? Was that a one time thing,
> >did you get it replaced.
>
> It occurred only once on the 4350.
>
> Don't get me wrong, I don't pretend to know what's causing this. I
> just know the phenomena exists.
>
> A_C
>
>
>
>
September 22, 2004 11:15:16 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.pocketpc (More info?)

You're quite right. I backed it up, and on my flight back, the memory
didn't erase! I was quite stunned, but I thought I should post again
about this. Whatever has done it before, I don't think it was
something that happened before boarding. I was able to work on it
fine while in the plane (for a while, that is). I suspect perhaps it
was the air pressure or sudden movements. Who knows. It was strange
though.

"Beverly Howard [Ms-MVP/MobileDev]" <BevNoSpamBevHoward.com> wrote in message news:<uQzEBuTnEHA.3628@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl>...
> First, it shouldn't be happening... might be related to sending it
> through a scanner, so see if it's acceptable to hand inspect it.
>
> Second, everyone who travels with a ppc should be using a backup to
> storage utility. It was a $600 paperweight more because a restore was
> not available than as a result of the memory being cleared... it's a
> matter of seconds for both backing up and restoring since a backup can
> be started and forgotten as ppc's will power down after it's finished.
>
> Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]
!