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Black Ink Question

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Anonymous
November 28, 2004 10:05:03 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Yeah, I'm considering buying a Canon Pixima iP4000 printer since it is on
sale at Compusa, and I noticed that it has two black ink cartridges, one
with B as a symbol and the other Bk.

Does anybody know the difference between these two blacks? Also, if anybody
would like to recommend or not recommend this printer to me, let me know.

Basically the only reason I'm buying this printer is so I only have to
replace the ink that I need. Also, I like to be able to print with black ink
even if the color ink is out (Epson will not do that!) Canon would let me
print with black if color is empty, right?

Thanks for all the help!
-Kevin S.

More about : black ink question

Anonymous
November 28, 2004 10:05:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Kevin S." <kseitz@gbronline.com> wrote in message
news:qeOdnadHRcJc6DfcRVn-1A@gbronline.com...

> Basically the only reason I'm buying this printer is so I only have to
> replace the ink that I need. Also, I like to be able to print with black ink
> even if the color ink is out (Epson will not do that!) Canon would let me
> print with black if color is empty, right?

Generally printers that have printheads separate from the ink supply require
that all the ink supplies are present and have ink to avoid damage or clogging
of the printhead. This applies to HP, Canon and Epson printers.

Printers with printheads integrated with the ink supply generally allow
printing with one or more of the cartridges low or out of ink. Many recent HP
printers will allow printing in "reserve mode" where if the black ink is out
the user can print with the color cartridge only or vice versa. You might take
a look at the DeskJet 5150, 5740 or 6540 for example. All these can print with
either or both cartridges installed. See:
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02a/18972-236...

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
November 29, 2004 12:08:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Kevin S. wrote:

>Yeah, I'm considering buying a Canon Pixima iP4000 printer since it is on
>sale at Compusa, and I noticed that it has two black ink cartridges, one
>with B as a symbol and the other Bk.
>
>Does anybody know the difference between these two blacks?

One is a pigmented black for text, the other is a dye-based black for
colour and photo prints.

> Also, if anybody
>would like to recommend or not recommend this printer to me, let me know.

It prints nice, and it's fast. Beyond that I can't recommend Canon i/iP
series anymore due to numerous bad experiences with their printheads.

It seems their printheads are not designed very well and they fail
early, and replacement cost is far too high. My i850 failed after just
4000 sheets and 16 months. A close friend's i550 failed after a measly
2500 pages. I know of three others that failed within the warranty
period now, and two more that failed outside of the warranty. I don't
have details on the number of pages, but all were relatively light
users.

> Also, I like to be able to print with black ink
>even if the color ink is out (Epson will not do that!) Canon would let me
>print with black if color is empty, right?

Yes...but the Canon will also print when no cartridge is installed, and
the optical sensor will NOT tell the printer an ink tank is missing.
Make sure you always have ink in the printer.

One of the "in-warranty" users I mentioned above found out about this
poor sensor design the hard way. He was lucky enough to get it replaced
under warranty, but he won't buy a Canon again.
Related resources
November 29, 2004 11:39:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Kevin S." <kseitz@gbronline.com> wrote in message
news:qeOdnadHRcJc6DfcRVn-1A@gbronline.com...
> Yeah, I'm considering buying a Canon Pixima iP4000 printer since it is on
> sale at Compusa, and I noticed that it has two black ink cartridges, one
> with B as a symbol and the other Bk.
>
> Does anybody know the difference between these two blacks? Also, if
anybody
> would like to recommend or not recommend this printer to me, let me know.
>
> Basically the only reason I'm buying this printer is so I only have to
> replace the ink that I need. Also, I like to be able to print with black
ink
> even if the color ink is out (Epson will not do that!) Canon would let me
> print with black if color is empty, right?
>
> Thanks for all the help!
> -Kevin S.

Canon does not let you print with any color empty.
K is for pigment black and B for dye based and therefore Photo work - and
the printheads seems to have redefined short life to not very long at all
:-) There is also this persistant leeching problem between colours where
Photos can have a distinct Magenta cast and yellows sometimes take up the
black. This was apparent and still is with the original S-820 I still have
and hardly ever use. Canon have problems?
--
Spit less spotlets - spotless inkjet prints...
http://www.aah-haa.com 30% more ink
http://www.inkylinkusa.com
Tony
November 29, 2004 11:39:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tony wrote:

>Canon does not let you print with any color empty.

If you're printing and an ink tank runs out, then the printer stops and
informs you of the problem.

However, Canon DOES let you print with any and all colours empty. In
fact, if you remove any of the ink tanks in the i/iP series, and then
try to print again, the optical sensor tells the printer you have a FULL
ink tank when nothing is even there!
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 1:37:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I'm not fully familiar with the new line of Canon printers. However, in
general, with dye ink photo printers, use of a pigmented black ink
doesn't mix well with dye color inks, so my suspicion is that one black
is for photo image use, and the other is for text and is pigmented for
permanence and perhaps waterproofing.

Epson takes a similar but different tact with their fully pigmented ink
sets. They now provide two blacks, one is designed for glossy papers,
and has a less dense black which doesn't tend to bronze or dull the
surface of glossy papers, and a second black that is more dense and
matte for matte surface papers.

Art

Kevin S. wrote:

> Yeah, I'm considering buying a Canon Pixima iP4000 printer since it is on
> sale at Compusa, and I noticed that it has two black ink cartridges, one
> with B as a symbol and the other Bk.
>
> Does anybody know the difference between these two blacks? Also, if anybody
> would like to recommend or not recommend this printer to me, let me know.
>
> Basically the only reason I'm buying this printer is so I only have to
> replace the ink that I need. Also, I like to be able to print with black ink
> even if the color ink is out (Epson will not do that!) Canon would let me
> print with black if color is empty, right?
>
> Thanks for all the help!
> -Kevin S.
>
>
Anonymous
November 29, 2004 3:21:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Bill" <bill@c.a> wrote in message news:48mdnTpdhI06azfcRVn-pg@golden.net...
> However, Canon DOES let you print with any and all colours empty. In
> fact, if you remove any of the ink tanks in the i/iP series, and then
> try to print again, the optical sensor tells the printer you have a FULL
> ink tank when nothing is even there!

While you may be able to print with the ink tank removed, this is not
recommended as it will likely cause damage to the printhead.

- Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
November 29, 2004 4:25:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:IZCqd.243264$9b.133072@edtnps84...
> I'm not fully familiar with the new line of Canon printers. However, in
> general, with dye ink photo printers, use of a pigmented black ink
> doesn't mix well with dye color inks, so my suspicion is that one black
> is for photo image use, and the other is for text and is pigmented for
> permanence and perhaps waterproofing.

Art,
BCi-3eK is a pigmented black ink - whereas BCi-3epb and BCi-6k for the Pixma
4000/5/6 are dye based.
If you use a pigment base with dye based you'll certainly get the Panda
effect particularly with B/W prints. As with the i560 4 inks and using the
BCi-3eK and equally the Pixma 4 ink tank replacement.
Tony
--
Spit less spotlets - spotless inkjet prints...
http://www.aah-haa.com 30% more ink
http://www.inkylinkusa.com
November 30, 2004 9:33:38 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Bob Headrick wrote:

>"Bill" <bill@c.a> wrote in message news:48mdnTpdhI06azfcRVn-pg@golden.net...
>> However, Canon DOES let you print with any and all colours empty. In
>> fact, if you remove any of the ink tanks in the i/iP series, and then
>> try to print again, the optical sensor tells the printer you have a FULL
>> ink tank when nothing is even there!
>
>While you may be able to print with the ink tank removed, this is not
>recommended as it will likely cause damage to the printhead.

Exactly my point...it's a poorly designed sensor system with no
safeguards to prevent burning out the head by accident. At the very
least, they should have a secondary sensor to detect if an ink tank is
installed or not.
Anonymous
December 3, 2004 11:39:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article Tony says...
> K is for pigment black and B for dye based and therefore Photo work - and
> the printheads seems to have redefined short life to not very long at all
>
>
Are you sniffing too much solvent? The canon pigmented black is BCI-3eBK
and the dye black is BCI-6BK or BCI-3ePBK.
!