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Acceptable rate of decent on VSI for landing?

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Anonymous
April 20, 2005 4:15:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi there - just wondering what people would define as an 'acceptable' rate
of decent on the VSI at the moment the wheels touch down on the runway (i.e.
to have any more decent would be too bumpy a landing)? Interested in your
views!

Cheers
Jason

More about : acceptable rate decent vsi landing

Anonymous
April 20, 2005 4:15:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Jason Wakeford" <jasonpr@dontspambarcourt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 443h1$ben$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Hi there - just wondering what people would define as an 'acceptable' rate
> of decent on the VSI at the moment the wheels touch down on the runway
> (i.e. to have any more decent would be too bumpy a landing)? Interested in
> your views!
>
> Cheers
> Jason
>

As close to zero feet per minute as possible...
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 4:15:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Jason Wakeford" <jasonpr@dontspambarcourt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 443h1$ben$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Hi there - just wondering what people would define as an 'acceptable' rate
> of decent on the VSI at the moment the wheels touch down on the runway
> (i.e. to have any more decent would be too bumpy a landing)? Interested in
> your views!

There are elements in volved suchs as speed.

-- L. James

-------------
L. D. James
ljames@apollo3.com
www.apollo3.com/~ljames
Related resources
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 4:22:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

What about the maximum though? Say for a 767...

"Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote in message
news:6ng9e.7619$EX4.261@fed1read01...
> "Jason Wakeford" <jasonpr@dontspambarcourt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
> message news:D 443h1$ben$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>> Hi there - just wondering what people would define as an 'acceptable'
>> rate of decent on the VSI at the moment the wheels touch down on the
>> runway (i.e. to have any more decent would be too bumpy a landing)?
>> Interested in your views!
>>
>> Cheers
>> Jason
>>
>
> As close to zero feet per minute as possible...
>
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 4:22:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Realistically, you won't have time to monitor vertical speed during your
landing.

Just fly your approach at the proper speed, and use either the glideslope or
approach lights for vertical guidance and you'll be okay.

And remember, right before touchdown, you will be doing a "flare", where you
pull the nose up, which reduces both forward speed and lift which will, if
you're good, allow the aircraft to settle gently onto the runway.

And I trust you will allow me to point out, for everyone's benefit, that it
is much easier to learn how to do all of this stuff just like IRL pilots do,
by starting in the 172 and gradually working your way up to the big
airplanes...





"Jason Wakeford" <jasonpr@dontspambarcourt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 443si$k57$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> What about the maximum though? Say for a 767...
>
> "Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:6ng9e.7619$EX4.261@fed1read01...
> > "Jason Wakeford" <jasonpr@dontspambarcourt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
> > message news:D 443h1$ben$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >> Hi there - just wondering what people would define as an 'acceptable'
> >> rate of decent on the VSI at the moment the wheels touch down on the
> >> runway (i.e. to have any more decent would be too bumpy a landing)?
> >> Interested in your views!
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Jason
> >>
> >
> > As close to zero feet per minute as possible...
> >
>
>
April 20, 2005 4:22:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:57:49 GMT, "Lakeview Bill"
<bdentonchi@hotmail.com> brought the following to our attention:

>Realistically, you won't have time to monitor vertical speed during your
>landing.
>
>Just fly your approach at the proper speed, and use either the glideslope or
>approach lights for vertical guidance and you'll be okay.
>
>And remember, right before touchdown, you will be doing a "flare", where you
>pull the nose up, which reduces both forward speed and lift which will, if
>you're good, allow the aircraft to settle gently onto the runway.

Have a bad habit of monitoring the digital readout window in the RADAR
Altimeter gauge on my Boeing jetliner panel. Maybe it's because the
spatial relations to the ground aren't the best out cockpit windows.
Funny thing is.. when the wheels touch down.. the RA is reading 10ft.
Not calibrated too well.. has an offset you might say.

Based on this.. what's the best way to break this habit and get
smoother flares? Yep.. only pull up nose a couple or a few deg.

i.e. look 1000' up ahead?? for instance?


-G

>And I trust you will allow me to point out, for everyone's benefit, that it
>is much easier to learn how to do all of this stuff just like IRL pilots do,
>by starting in the 172 and gradually working your way up to the big
>airplanes...
>
>
>
>
>
>"Jason Wakeford" <jasonpr@dontspambarcourt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> What about the maximum though? Say for a 767...
>>
>> "Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote in message
>>
>> > "Jason Wakeford" <jasonpr@dontspambarcourt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi there - just wondering what people would define as an 'acceptable'
>> >> rate of decent on the VSI at the moment the wheels touch down on the
>> >> runway (i.e. to have any more decent would be too bumpy a landing)?
>> >> Interested in your views!
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >> Jason
>> >>
>> >
>> > As close to zero feet per minute as possible...
>> >
>>
>>
>
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 4:22:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:7leb619695fd3occ95r5b1s4o4el5evbhj@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:57:49 GMT, "Lakeview Bill"
> <bdentonchi@hotmail.com> brought the following to our attention:
>
>>Realistically, you won't have time to monitor vertical speed during your
>>landing.
>>
>>Just fly your approach at the proper speed, and use either the glideslope
>>or
>>approach lights for vertical guidance and you'll be okay.
>>
>>And remember, right before touchdown, you will be doing a "flare", where
>>you
>>pull the nose up, which reduces both forward speed and lift which will, if
>>you're good, allow the aircraft to settle gently onto the runway.
>
> Have a bad habit of monitoring the digital readout window in the RADAR
> Altimeter gauge on my Boeing jetliner panel. Maybe it's because the
> spatial relations to the ground aren't the best out cockpit windows.
> Funny thing is.. when the wheels touch down.. the RA is reading 10ft.
> Not calibrated too well.. has an offset you might say.
>
> Based on this.. what's the best way to break this habit and get
> smoother flares? Yep.. only pull up nose a couple or a few deg.
>
> i.e. look 1000' up ahead?? for instance?
>
>
> -G
>

Impossible in a 2D world...

Landing is soooo much a feel thing.

yes, there are some numbers and keys to start with:
1000' AGL on downwind...
Begin 500'/min descent abeam the numbers...
Turn Base when the numbers are 45 degrees behind you...
Turn Final as dictated by the winds (sooner in a tailwind...later in a
headwind...this is why pilots learn/use ground reference maneuvers...wind
compensation)
On final...pitch for speed...power to control rate of decent...

Do you want a normal, a short or a soft-field landing? I prefer a "modified
soft-field" type of landing with maybe an extra 100RPM at the flare to roll
her on and not drop it on.

And then it just becomes a feel thing...and it's almost all (90% IMO) done
with seat of the pants sensations and peripheral vision. I keep my head and
my eyes moving...scanning for traffic and constantly taking in the visual
picture...listening to my power settings and wind noise. You need all five
senses to fly.

Too low...add some power
Too fast...raise the nose
Too high...pull some power (and maybe slip it a bit...)
Too slow...lower the nose

Numbers moving up the windshield...you're gonna land short
Numbers moving down the windshield...you're gonna land long

I'm kinda short, so in calm conditions, I like to land in a little bit of a
right forward slip which helps me see over the lower left corner of the
glareshield. I keep my gaze well down the runway, but I'm doing a lot of
near/far/near/far judgements to gauge when it's time to flare.

FWIW (at least in a C172SP) the "perfect" flare = same deck angle as take
off and the stall horn is just starting to chirp at me when the wheels kiss
the pavement.

Good Luck...

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL / Sim Pilot Too
Chandler, AZ
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 5:41:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:27:32 -0400, Gregory wrote:

> Funny thing is.. when the wheels touch down.. the RA is reading 10ft.
> Not calibrated too well.. has an offset you might say.

The radar antenna is around 10' above the ground, so the reading is quite
well calibrated!

Bill
April 20, 2005 3:18:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:58:00 -0700, "Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net>
brought the following to our attention:

Very good advice Jay.. am still working on the
"pitch for speed... power for rate" convention.

Send more tips on `numbers in windshield' and `rwy far end' kinds of
things..

Mainly have been setting power by the FF gauge(s) on final.. it's
proven to be a good method.. it seems to vary with conditions. When
you mention 1000' on downwind.. that's scary.. must be for GA craft.
The other night ATC had me descend to 3100 but it was about 2100' on
the intercept (1900 over terrain).. and that seemed low for a 130'000
lb jet. The other thing is.. my ground details are turned off due to
CPU/framerate issues.. another reason to have strong hardware
platform!! So then.. how about side monitors and ground details?
Overall it's fun to tweak one's Ops skills.

-Gregory

>
>Impossible in a 2D world...
>
>Landing is soooo much a feel thing.
>
>yes, there are some numbers and keys to start with:
>1000' AGL on downwind...
>Begin 500'/min descent abeam the numbers...
>Turn Base when the numbers are 45 degrees behind you...
>Turn Final as dictated by the winds (sooner in a tailwind...later in a
>headwind...this is why pilots learn/use ground reference maneuvers...wind
>compensation)
>On final...pitch for speed...power to control rate of decent...
>
>Do you want a normal, a short or a soft-field landing? I prefer a "modified
>soft-field" type of landing with maybe an extra 100RPM at the flare to roll
>her on and not drop it on.
>
>And then it just becomes a feel thing...and it's almost all (90% IMO) done
>with seat of the pants sensations and peripheral vision. I keep my head and
>my eyes moving...scanning for traffic and constantly taking in the visual
>picture...listening to my power settings and wind noise. You need all five
>senses to fly.
>
>Too low...add some power
>Too fast...raise the nose
>Too high...pull some power (and maybe slip it a bit...)
>Too slow...lower the nose
>
>Numbers moving up the windshield...you're gonna land short
>Numbers moving down the windshield...you're gonna land long
>
>I'm kinda short, so in calm conditions, I like to land in a little bit of a
>right forward slip which helps me see over the lower left corner of the
>glareshield. I keep my gaze well down the runway, but I'm doing a lot of
>near/far/near/far judgements to gauge when it's time to flare.
>
>FWIW (at least in a C172SP) the "perfect" flare = same deck angle as take
>off and the stall horn is just starting to chirp at me when the wheels kiss
>the pavement.
>
>Good Luck...
>
>Jay Beckman
>PP-ASEL / Sim Pilot Too
>Chandler, AZ
>
>
>> Have a bad habit of monitoring the digital readout window in the RADAR
>> Altimeter gauge on my Boeing jetliner panel. Maybe it's because the
>> spatial relations to the ground aren't the best out cockpit windows.
>> Funny thing is.. when the wheels touch down.. the RA is reading 10ft.
>> Not calibrated too well.. has an offset you might say.
>>
>> Based on this.. what's the best way to break this habit and get
>> smoother flares? Yep.. only pull up nose a couple or a few deg.
>>
>> i.e. look 1000' up ahead?? for instance?
>>
>>
>> -G
>>
April 20, 2005 3:53:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 01:41:44 -0400, Bill Leaming <n4gix@comcast.net>
brought the following to our attention:

>On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:27:32 -0400, Gregory wrote:
>
>> Funny thing is.. when the wheels touch down.. the RA is reading 10ft.
>> Not calibrated too well.. has an offset you might say.
>
>The radar antenna is around 10' above the ground, so the reading is quite
>well calibrated!
>
>Bill

Chuckle.. well.. we certainly put a lot of antennas in aircraft! :) 

Now I'd like to get all the gauges on the panel..
reading the same thing!!


cheers..

-Gregory
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 6:58:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> Hi there - just wondering what people would define as an 'acceptable' rate
> of decent on the VSI at the moment the wheels touch down on the runway
> (i.e. to have any more decent would be too bumpy a landing)? Interested in
> your views!


Totally aside, but I was just reading this morning about the Air France
Concorde F-BVFD (the one that was broken up) that suffered terribly from a
landing at 14fps instead of the more usual 10fps - not much difference you
might think, but enough to mess a Concorde up so much that it never really
recovered and was later scrapped.

D.
Anonymous
April 20, 2005 9:44:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On the 767, the radar altitude will show *Roughly* 0ft when the mains touch
down, and then -6ft (yes, 6ft under ground) when all the wheels are on the
ground.


"Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote in message
news:Y3n9e.7674$EX4.4565@fed1read01...
> "Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:7leb619695fd3occ95r5b1s4o4el5evbhj@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:57:49 GMT, "Lakeview Bill"
>> <bdentonchi@hotmail.com> brought the following to our attention:
>>
>>>Realistically, you won't have time to monitor vertical speed during your
>>>landing.
>>>
>>>Just fly your approach at the proper speed, and use either the glideslope
>>>or
>>>approach lights for vertical guidance and you'll be okay.
>>>
>>>And remember, right before touchdown, you will be doing a "flare", where
>>>you
>>>pull the nose up, which reduces both forward speed and lift which will,
>>>if
>>>you're good, allow the aircraft to settle gently onto the runway.
>>
>> Have a bad habit of monitoring the digital readout window in the RADAR
>> Altimeter gauge on my Boeing jetliner panel. Maybe it's because the
>> spatial relations to the ground aren't the best out cockpit windows.
>> Funny thing is.. when the wheels touch down.. the RA is reading 10ft.
>> Not calibrated too well.. has an offset you might say.
>>
>> Based on this.. what's the best way to break this habit and get
>> smoother flares? Yep.. only pull up nose a couple or a few deg.
>>
>> i.e. look 1000' up ahead?? for instance?
>>
>>
>> -G
>>
>
> Impossible in a 2D world...
>
> Landing is soooo much a feel thing.
>
> yes, there are some numbers and keys to start with:
> 1000' AGL on downwind...
> Begin 500'/min descent abeam the numbers...
> Turn Base when the numbers are 45 degrees behind you...
> Turn Final as dictated by the winds (sooner in a tailwind...later in a
> headwind...this is why pilots learn/use ground reference maneuvers...wind
> compensation)
> On final...pitch for speed...power to control rate of decent...
>
> Do you want a normal, a short or a soft-field landing? I prefer a
> "modified soft-field" type of landing with maybe an extra 100RPM at the
> flare to roll her on and not drop it on.
>
> And then it just becomes a feel thing...and it's almost all (90% IMO) done
> with seat of the pants sensations and peripheral vision. I keep my head
> and my eyes moving...scanning for traffic and constantly taking in the
> visual picture...listening to my power settings and wind noise. You need
> all five senses to fly.
>
> Too low...add some power
> Too fast...raise the nose
> Too high...pull some power (and maybe slip it a bit...)
> Too slow...lower the nose
>
> Numbers moving up the windshield...you're gonna land short
> Numbers moving down the windshield...you're gonna land long
>
> I'm kinda short, so in calm conditions, I like to land in a little bit of
> a right forward slip which helps me see over the lower left corner of the
> glareshield. I keep my gaze well down the runway, but I'm doing a lot of
> near/far/near/far judgements to gauge when it's time to flare.
>
> FWIW (at least in a C172SP) the "perfect" flare = same deck angle as take
> off and the stall horn is just starting to chirp at me when the wheels
> kiss the pavement.
>
> Good Luck...
>
> Jay Beckman
> PP-ASEL / Sim Pilot Too
> Chandler, AZ
>
April 20, 2005 9:44:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:44:24 +1000, "Trent Hopkinson"
<hoppys1@optusnet.com.au> brought the following to our attention:

>On the 767, the radar altitude will show *Roughly* 0ft when the mains touch
>down, and then -6ft (yes, 6ft under ground) when all the wheels are on the
>ground.

So that means..
you also monitor the RA during final moments of touchdown? :) 

One cannot seem to tell (as in by feel) the height above runway in 2D
panel view.. some side monitors would help out.. wouldn't they?
That is.. with a resolution or certainty of ~10ft.

As Bill says.. would like to move the antenna to it's correct spot on
the fuse.. and then calibrate it (enter the correct offset from CTR).

Did some quick tests in SLEW mode.. and the RA increases from slewing
in ALT.. but doesn't change when slewing back on `tail strike' unit.
That proves the antenna isn't in the nose. :) 

Hope this isn't being too much like `Joe engineer'.. and as usual have
clipped out a couple graphics (gauge views) from the testbed Boeing
panel where digital indicators are overlayed onto the analogue gauges:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/flightsim/RA.gif < RA w/10' offset

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/flightsim/VS.gif < VS w/digital disp


Notice the RA analogue reads 0 but the digital reads 10. The VS
digital readout is ~10% different from the gauge.. maybe should go
back to ALL analogue for the old jet? Maybe should get into gauge
design and programming!! { grin }

-Gregory

----------
>"Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote in message
>
>> "Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:57:49 GMT, "Lakeview Bill"
>>> <bdentonchi@hotmail.com> brought the following to our attention:
>>>
>>>>Realistically, you won't have time to monitor vertical speed during your landing.
>>>>
>>>>Just fly your approach at the proper speed, and use either the glideslope or
>>>>approach lights for vertical guidance and you'll be okay.
>>>>
>>>>And remember, right before touchdown, you will be doing a "flare", where you
>>>>pull the nose up, which reduces both forward speed and lift which will, if
>>>>you're good, allow the aircraft to settle gently onto the runway.
>>>
>>> Have a bad habit of monitoring the digital readout window in the RADAR
>>> Altimeter gauge on my Boeing jetliner panel. Maybe it's because the
>>> spatial relations to the ground aren't the best out cockpit windows.
>>> Funny thing is.. when the wheels touch down.. the RA is reading 10ft.
>>> Not calibrated too well.. has an offset you might say.
>>>
>>> Based on this.. what's the best way to break this habit and get
>>> smoother flares? Yep.. only pull up nose a couple or a few deg.
>>>
>>> i.e. look 1000' up ahead?? for instance?
>>>
>>>
>>> -G
>>>
>>
>> Impossible in a 2D world...
>>
>> Landing is soooo much a feel thing.
>>
>> yes, there are some numbers and keys to start with:
>> 1000' AGL on downwind...
>> Begin 500'/min descent abeam the numbers...
>> Turn Base when the numbers are 45 degrees behind you...
>> Turn Final as dictated by the winds (sooner in a tailwind...later in a
>> headwind...this is why pilots learn/use ground reference maneuvers...wind
>> compensation)
>> On final...pitch for speed...power to control rate of decent...
>>
>> Do you want a normal, a short or a soft-field landing? I prefer a
>> "modified soft-field" type of landing with maybe an extra 100RPM at the
>> flare to roll her on and not drop it on.
>>
>> And then it just becomes a feel thing...and it's almost all (90% IMO) done
>> with seat of the pants sensations and peripheral vision. I keep my head
>> and my eyes moving...scanning for traffic and constantly taking in the
>> visual picture...listening to my power settings and wind noise. You need
>> all five senses to fly.
>>
>> Too low...add some power
>> Too fast...raise the nose
>> Too high...pull some power (and maybe slip it a bit...)
>> Too slow...lower the nose
>>
>> Numbers moving up the windshield...you're gonna land short
>> Numbers moving down the windshield...you're gonna land long
>>
>> I'm kinda short, so in calm conditions, I like to land in a little bit of
>> a right forward slip which helps me see over the lower left corner of the
>> glareshield. I keep my gaze well down the runway, but I'm doing a lot of
>> near/far/near/far judgements to gauge when it's time to flare.
>>
>> FWIW (at least in a C172SP) the "perfect" flare = same deck angle as take
>> off and the stall horn is just starting to chirp at me when the wheels
>> kiss the pavement.
>>
>> Good Luck...
>>
>> Jay Beckman
>> PP-ASEL / Sim Pilot Too
>> Chandler, AZ
>>
>
April 21, 2005 7:55:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:15:22 +0100, "Jason Wakeford"
<jasonpr@dontspambarcourt.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>Hi there - just wondering what people would define as an 'acceptable' rate
>of decent on the VSI at the moment the wheels touch down on the runway (i.e.
>to have any more decent would be too bumpy a landing)? Interested in your
>views!
>

Ever see a carrier landing?
The gear on those planes is built like a tank and I believe they still
land at less than 500 fpm. Any carrier, or ex carrier pilots care to
comment?

500 fpm in any other planes would relegate them to the scrap heap.
I doubt if an airliner would survive a 100 fpm unbent.

The goal for conventional aircraft including Air force fighters is
close to zero when the wheels touch. That's why the air force uses
long runways and the navy uses strong airplanes.

A few years back I was standing within 100 feet of an F-14 when it
.... well, arrived seems a bit trivial when impacted is probably more
accurate. They blew the dirt off to the side of the runway and it
wasn't from the jet blast.

They used surprisingly little runway. OTOH the F-15 and 16s were
using most of the runway.

Some where around here I have a photo of my wife walking to the side
of the taxiway about 6 to 10 feet from the wing tip of an F-16 taxiing
by.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>Cheers
>Jason
>
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 1:13:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

A pathetic cry from an Old Timer..can't ANYONE spell descent these days -
it is positively indecent.




Cheers,

Quilly
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 3:37:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:13:30 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>A pathetic cry from an Old Timer..can't ANYONE spell descent these days -
>it is positively indecent.

Hi Quilly

You would NOT have enjoyed the edition of Airline I watched yesterday.
(Airline's the one about Easyjet.)

A bloke used the word disclaim rather than reclaim several times
(neither word was strictly appropriate) and one two occasions he said
reoccur. Arrrrggghhh.

James
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 4:05:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Roger <Delete-Invallid.stuff.groups@tm.net> wrote:

>Ever see a carrier landing?
>The gear on those planes is built like a tank and I believe they still
>land at less than 500 fpm. Any carrier, or ex carrier pilots care to
>comment?

It's not a landing ... it's a controlled crash :-)

-=tom=-
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 1:21:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:13:30 +0000 (UTC), Quilljar wrote:

> A pathetic cry from an Old Timer..can't ANYONE spell descent these days -

Sure..."I began my deesent 20 miles out."


Unwind, Quilly....the weekend is near, so the cagedoor will be opened
again. :-))

--

Marcel
(If you've gotta be part of a group, be part of a group of simmers!)
April 22, 2005 9:24:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Quilljar"
> A pathetic cry from an Old Timer..can't ANYONE spell descent these days -
> it is positively indecent.

I guess we could set up some language police like the French....

(Not a joke, they have language police)

Dallas
April 22, 2005 11:27:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 05:24:23 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> brought the following to our
attention:

>
>"Quilljar"
>> A pathetic cry from an Old Timer..can't ANYONE spell descent
>> these days - it is positively indecent.
>
>I guess we could set up some language police like the French....
>
>(Not a joke, they have language police)
>
>Dallas
>

perhaps check out the MW toolbar.. http://www.m-w.com/downloads.htm

ok.. so you're not so big on plugins.. but this one is slick!!
See how small it is.. and notice the context-menu features.

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/g-abbey/mw-toolbar.gif

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/g-abbey/mw-context.gif


-G
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 1:30:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:13:30 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>A pathetic cry from an Old Timer..can't ANYONE spell descent these days -
>it is positively indecent.
>
Go Quilly!!!!

It gets up my nose as well - it seems strange to me that whereas
computer programs will refuse to get out of bed if there is one
spelling mistake by the programmer, a seemingly large percentage of
users are atrocious at spelling. I'm not talking about people with
dyslexia or those for whom English is a second language (the latter
seem to be better at spelling and grammar than many native speakers),
but about normal, average (is that an oxymoron?) people.

I am so pedantic that I dropped my subscription to a major Australian
aviation magazine for several years due to the mind-jarring mangling
of the language by the authors/editor.

Having got that off my chest, I will take several deep breaths and
shuffle back to my corner, hoping that I haven't made any such errors
in this posting.
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 1:30:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Martin Cowley" <mcowley@senet_remove_this_.com.au> wrote in message
news:k6fg619iks24qnhhvjr2a7asnovh01gef5@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:13:30 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
> <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>A pathetic cry from an Old Timer..can't ANYONE spell descent these days -
>>it is positively indecent.
>>
> Go Quilly!!!!
>
> It gets up my nose as well - it seems strange to me that whereas
> computer programs will refuse to get out of bed if there is one
> spelling mistake by the programmer, a seemingly large percentage of
> users are atrocious at spelling. I'm not talking about people with
> dyslexia or those for whom English is a second language (the latter
> seem to be better at spelling and grammar than many native speakers),
> but about normal, average (is that an oxymoron?) people.
>
> I am so pedantic that I dropped my subscription to a major Australian
> aviation magazine for several years due to the mind-jarring mangling
> of the language by the authors/editor.
>
> Having got that off my chest, I will take several deep breaths and
> shuffle back to my corner, hoping that I haven't made any such errors
> in this posting.

Spelling a word the same way every time is a sign of a poor imagination.

I prefer to make up my own words, so nobody can critique my spelling.

I do this on an occasionawobble basis.

Bob McKellar
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 1:30:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

As a long time professional writer, I love imaginative use of words and also
the making up of new words. Any reader of Terry Pratchett or Alice in
Wonderland, must agree. I only get uneasy when I really do not know what a
person is trying to say because of the unconventional spelling of a common
word, particularly when the mis-spelling changes the meaning to another word
entirely.
We do not need language police for English, just a little more language love
and understanding...

Cheers,

Quilly
April 22, 2005 1:30:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:36:38 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> brought the following to our
attention:

>As a long time professional writer, I love imaginative use of words and also
>the making up of new words. Any reader of Terry Pratchett or Alice in
>Wonderland, must agree. I only get uneasy when I really do not know what a
>person is trying to say because of the unconventional spelling of a common
>word, particularly when the mis-spelling changes the meaning to another word
>entirely.

Main Entry: ver·bi·cide
Etymology: Latin verbum word + English -cide
1 : deliberate distortion of the sense of a word (as in punning)
2 : one who distorts the sense of a word

>We do not need language police for English, just a little more language love
>and understanding...
>
>Cheers,
>
>Quilly
>
April 22, 2005 10:49:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 08:36:38 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> brought the following to our
attention:

>As a long time professional writer, I love imaginative use of
>words and also the making up of new words.


Can we have a brief chat about word processors then? Am getting
into essay writing.. etc.


Already have Office 2000 however Word is so bloated and is usually
out of control. Must struggle with it by constantly undoing it's auto
formatting.

Have WordPerfect 2000 but its a bit awkward and has a whole `suite'
with it.. too much code perhaps?

Then there's AbiWord.. http://www.abisource.com/ now THAT might
be just right!! What do you think? The price is very good. :]


-Gregory
Anonymous
April 22, 2005 11:42:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:21:39 +0200, Marcel Kuijper wrote in
alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim:

>On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:13:30 +0000 (UTC), Quilljar wrote:
>
>> A pathetic cry from an Old Timer..can't ANYONE spell descent these days -
>

I hate to sound like the Grammar Police, but shouldn't that be: "Can't
anyone spell DECENTLY these days?"

Grins, ducks and runs...

--

One of the good things about modern times: if you die horribly on
television, you will not have died in vain. You will have entertained
us.
April 23, 2005 12:13:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dick Yuknavech"
> I hate to sound like the Grammar Police, but shouldn't that be: "Can't
> anyone spell DECENTLY these days?"
>
> Grins, ducks and runs...


You missed the context. :-)

DESCENT - the act of changing your location in a downward direction


Dallas
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 1:24:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> I hate to sound like the Grammar Police, but shouldn't that be: "Can't
> anyone spell DECENTLY these days?"
>
> Grins, ducks and runs...


As well you should ...:-)

and don't you mean 'Eats shoots and leaves'?


--
Cheers,

Quilly
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 4:59:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:30:32 +0930, Martin Cowley wrote:

> I am so pedantic that I dropped my subscription to a major Australian
> aviation magazine for several years due to the mind-jarring mangling
> of the language by the authors/editor.

Well, what truly pisses me off is hearing supposedly educated people on -
of all places - EDUCATIONAL CHANNELS! saying things like, "Me and my
friend..."

ARGGHHH!

Even on the Disney Channel, you hear kids and adults using atrocious
grammar.

One day, I was watching an interview of the "Teacher of the Year" for the
Chicago School District (who also happened to be the Honors Teacher for the
English Department at his high school), state: "Him and I went to Columbia
together!" (in reference to another "notable teacher" who was mentioned by
the interviewer).

No wonder ignorance is in such abundance!

Bill
April 23, 2005 11:21:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Bill Leaming" <
> English Department at his high school), state: "Him and I went to Columbia
> together!"
> No wonder ignorance is in such abundance!

Ah... alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim... the last bastion of "descent"
English.


:-)

Varmit
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 1:30:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Well Gregory,
I struggle with MS Word for long manuscripts, but for anything else
including correspondence, design and adverts, posters, short articles etc.
It is impossible to beat Textease. A brilliant program which will do almost
everything you want from writing to playing movies. In addition it will save
out as an MS Word file if you wish!
Try a sample free from www.softease.com

Cheers,

Quilly
April 23, 2005 1:30:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:30:34 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> brought the following to our
attention:

>Well Gregory,
>I struggle with MS Word for long manuscripts, but for anything else
>including correspondence, design and adverts, posters, short articles etc.
>It is impossible to beat Textease. A brilliant program which will do almost
>everything you want from writing to playing movies. In addition it will save
>out as an MS Word file if you wish!
>Try a sample free from www.softease.com
>
>Cheers,
>
>Quilly
>

thanks for the info.. love those ladies' voices in the U.K. ;]

it seems like a product for the tots. here are some screens
http://www.softease.com/images/2k2.jpg
http://www.softease.com/images/2k4.jpg

now for MS Word.. we had some mission-critical docs on the job.. and
Word hosed them up so bad.. that it would lock and crash the OS (yes
the OS) and force reboots. Had a clerical re-type all the docs from
laser prints. It was a huge embarrassing and frustrating delay!!

-G

p.s. for editing CFG and AIR files.. I highly recommend ;
http://www.notetab.com/
April 23, 2005 1:54:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:30:34 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> brought the following to our
attention:

>I struggle with MS Word for long manuscripts, ...

now here's another example.. not hearing feedback like
`high productivity' or ROI from users.. only from MS. :) 

we got in trouble when two guys worked on (edited) the
same documents on separate PC's. seems that different
struggle or hack profiles are incompatible. { smirk }

was thinking of taking a Word course.. but it should be a
smoother learning curve. And if you ever `save as htm' and
then open the file in a standard editor.. it's one huge mess
of proprietary code!!


- reveal codes display background formatting in a word
processor document. since when does MS reveal any
code??
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 5:08:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> it seems like a product for the tots. here are some screens


No no no!

Textease was originally designed for schools, which is why it is so easy to
use. However, it is now a very sophisticated program much used by discerning
adults. There is no other program that will do as much. Just one example,
try dragging and dropping almost ANY graphic or movie file onto a page of
textease and watch what happens. Design a web page by drag and drop, and
save it out instanrly as HTML etc etc etc.

Cheers,

Quilly
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 5:13:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 21:24:43 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>As well you should ...:-)
>
>and don't you mean 'Eats shoots and leaves'?

Beat me to it.

James
Anonymous
April 23, 2005 5:20:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 05:24:23 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>I guess we could set up some language police like the French....
>
>(Not a joke, they have language police)

It's a waste of time, IMO. I can't understand a word they say.

A bientot
James
April 23, 2005 9:43:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"John Ward"
> You bastard - my brand new cordless ergonomic keyboard just got hosed
by
> some very fine Scotch!!


You should have gotten a brand new cordless ergonomic waterproof keyboard.
:-P


Dallas
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 2:20:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:21:03 GMT, Dallas wrote:

> "Bill Leaming" <
>> English Department at his high school), state: "Him and I went to Columbia
>> together!"
>> No wonder ignorance is in such abundance!
>
> Ah... alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim... the last bastion of "descent"
> English.

Well, I suppose it *could* have been worse. He could have said, "Him and
me went to Columbia together!" ;) 

Bill
April 24, 2005 5:39:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 00:59:27 -0400, Bill Leaming <n4gix@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:30:32 +0930, Martin Cowley wrote:
>
>> I am so pedantic that I dropped my subscription to a major Australian
>> aviation magazine for several years due to the mind-jarring mangling
>> of the language by the authors/editor.
>
>Well, what truly pisses me off is hearing supposedly educated people on -
>of all places - EDUCATIONAL CHANNELS! saying things like, "Me and my
>friend..."
>
>ARGGHHH!

That's not quite as bad as "You've got mail!"

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Even on the Disney Channel, you hear kids and adults using atrocious
>grammar.
>
>One day, I was watching an interview of the "Teacher of the Year" for the
>Chicago School District (who also happened to be the Honors Teacher for the
>English Department at his high school), state: "Him and I went to Columbia
>together!" (in reference to another "notable teacher" who was mentioned by
>the interviewer).
>
>No wonder ignorance is in such abundance!
>
>Bill
April 24, 2005 5:53:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 09:30:34 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Well Gregory,
>I struggle with MS Word for long manuscripts, but for anything else
>including correspondence, design and adverts, posters, short articles etc.
>It is impossible to beat Textease. A brilliant program which will do almost
>everything you want from writing to playing movies. In addition it will save
>out as an MS Word file if you wish!
>Try a sample free from www.softease.com
>
Yah, but it's in English instead of English.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>Cheers,
>
>Quilly
>
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 7:25:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Billy,

<Snippety snip>
"EDUCATIONAL CHANNELS! saying things like, "Me and my
friend..."

Disgraceful!!!

Even the dumbest of blokes knows it should have read "Me and my mate..."
:-))

Regards,
John Ward

"Bill Leaming" <n4gix@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:cr7cqczostpm$.1t90r1syw0d23$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:30:32 +0930, Martin Cowley wrote:
>
>> I am so pedantic that I dropped my subscription to a major Australian
>> aviation magazine for several years due to the mind-jarring mangling
>> of the language by the authors/editor.
>
> Well, what truly pisses me off is hearing supposedly educated people on -
> of all places - EDUCATIONAL CHANNELS! saying things like, "Me and my
> friend..."
>
> ARGGHHH!
>
> Even on the Disney Channel, you hear kids and adults using atrocious
> grammar.
>
> One day, I was watching an interview of the "Teacher of the Year" for the
> Chicago School District (who also happened to be the Honors Teacher for
> the
> English Department at his high school), state: "Him and I went to Columbia
> together!" (in reference to another "notable teacher" who was mentioned by
> the interviewer).
>
> No wonder ignorance is in such abundance!
>
> Bill
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 8:22:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Varmit,

You're right, mate - that's the one I was meaning to get, but the bloody
salesPERSON talked me into the other one!

Rats!! :-)) Matbe next time??

Regards,
John Ward
"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:vPvae.12475$lP1.8945@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "John Ward"
>> You bastard - my brand new cordless ergonomic keyboard just got hosed
> by
>> some very fine Scotch!!
>
>
> You should have gotten a brand new cordless ergonomic waterproof keyboard.
> :-P
>
>
> Dallas
>
>
Anonymous
April 24, 2005 2:51:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> Yah, but it's in English instead of English.


Aye ? What?

,

Quilly
April 25, 2005 8:28:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB"
> >>12) PERCUSSIVE MAINTENANCE:
> I never Whacked. I did *Tap* from time to time. Sometimes with
> increasing *tappidipy*, but hardly ever Whacked.

My wife taught me a new one that I would have never, ever used: "Push all
the buttons"

I'll be damned if it doesn't actually work.. :-/


Dallas
Anonymous
April 26, 2005 1:09:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 04:28:42 GMT, Dallas wrote:

> My wife taught me a new one that I would have never, ever used: "Push all
> the buttons"
>
> I'll be damned if it doesn't actually work.. :-/

And they say women aren't resourceful.....

--

Marcel (SAG-21)
(Gear up, AP engaged...hey...what's that emergency light?)
April 27, 2005 6:05:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:51:29 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>> Yah, but it's in English instead of English.

Time to go to the loo and have a fag.
She sure was pissed last night.

Put US translation here:



Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>
>
>Aye ? What?
>
>,
>
>Quilly
>
Anonymous
April 27, 2005 6:05:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Roger" <Delete-Invallid.stuff.groups@tm.net> wrote in message
news:aoau61p9o9i3mkpk4giput026h1m7qkfr1@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:51:29 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
> <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> Yah, but it's in English instead of English.
>
> Time to go to the loo and have a fag.
> She sure was pissed last night.
>
> Put US translation here:
>

Time to use the restroom and have a smoke...

She was sure drunk last night...

(Did I get it right?)

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ
April 28, 2005 5:05:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 00:04:25 -0700, "Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net>
wrote:

>"Roger" <Delete-Invallid.stuff.groups@tm.net> wrote in message
>news:aoau61p9o9i3mkpk4giput026h1m7qkfr1@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 10:51:29 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
>> <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> Yah, but it's in English instead of English.
>>
>> Time to go to the loo and have a fag.
>> She sure was pissed last night.
>>
>> Put US translation here:
>>
>
>Time to use the restroom and have a smoke...
>
>She was sure drunk last night...
>
>(Did I get it right?)
>

Sho 'Nuff, near as I can tell.

One people separated by a common language.
Goin' out partying with a Scotsman, an Irishman, two Welch, and one
poor guy from California who was trying to figure out what was going
on... was a ball. They were drinking stuff that you darn near needed
to dig out of the bottle. They call it "Stout" for a reason. <LOL>

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

>Jay Beckman
>PP-ASEL
>Chandler, AZ
>
Anonymous
April 28, 2005 1:00:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Welch?
That means to renege on a bet. I think you mean Welsh boyo :-)

Cheers,

Quilly
April 28, 2005 9:35:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:00:24 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Welch?
>That means to renege on a bet. I think you mean Welsh boyo :-)

And I'll bet you spell color with a U <:-))
Of course when I was back in grade school it was spelt "colour" here
in the states too.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Cheers,
>
>Quilly
>
!