Any AGP card better than a 7800GS at $299? Help!

[johnm76]

I know there are faster PCIe cards at lower prices, but upgrading my motherboard is not an option and I'm ok paying a little more to stick with my 754 board with 8X AGP.

I need a fast card that can handle my native 1600x1200 LCD monitor, so an overclocked card with less RAM or pipelines (like the 6600GT) is not the best choice for me, right? In the latest Tom's benchmarks, the $299 7800GS is right with the 6800 Ultra and the X850XT PE. Both of these cards seem to be (much) more expensive than the 7800GS. The X800XT and 6800GT are slower than the 7800GS but cost about the same, and the $210 6800GS, even unlocked and overclocked, is at best a GT, not an Ultra. Since most of the older/slower alternatives to the 7800GS in the "Short list" are $200-$250 anyway, I'd rather pay the extra $50-$100 and know I'm set for the next couple years.

I've seen a lot of negative comments on the 7800GS, but is there really a better choice out there at $299 right now? If so, someone please help me find it, I'm a little overwhelmed with all the options!

Thanks! -Jon

 

[pauldh]

Unfortunately, not now there isn't. X850XT would offer just as good performance, but has gone up alot in price the past few weeks. They were easy to find for $200-250 (USD) a few weeks back. The X800XT AIW would be a good choice, but also gone up in price and rebates no longer available. The X850XTpe is faster than a 7800GS in my book, but the pricing is rediculous.

Not what you want, but for about $350, a 7800GT and S754 PCI-e mobo would provide higher performance.

Before buying, I'd sure look into the games you want to play and how well a 7800GS or the slightly cheaper AIW X800XT handle those games at your native 16x12 resolution. You are probably not going to be happy dropping that lcd down under native. I know my 6800U isn't a 16x12 card for my games and demands. I'd want a 7800GT minimum, or better yet a X1900XT if I gamed on an 16x12 native LCD.

 

[johnm76]

Thanks for the suggestions! Checking out the mid-range cards now, trying to narrow it down between a fast mid-price card, or dropping the $300 on the 7800GS.

The 6800GS is about $220, which is just too close in price to the $299 7800GS considering I have to risk unlocking and overclocking it to even see 6800GT speeds, let alone 7800GS.

The X800/850 series AGP cards score really well but are VERY difficult to find right now! The couple I have located, are very expensive at $300-$400.

I managed to locate one (Abit RX800-GURU) for $169, which is labled a X800 but seems to have closer to X800GTO specs, with 12 pipes, 256mem, DDR3 and a +/- 400mhz core:

http://www.abit-usa.com/products/graphics/techspec.php?categories=2&model=296

All of the X800 variants seem to score at or above the 6800GT/Ultra levels, so maybe this is a great deal for about the same price as a 6600GT?? If anyone can take a look at that link and let me know what's "wrong" with that card that it is priced so cheaply, I would really appreciate it. Thanks again! -Jon

 

[pauldh]

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=326031

You can find 6800GS AGP for under $220. Here's a BFG 6800GS AGP $198 shipped free.

 

[Nytro]

if u can find an x850xt pe under 250 bucks, it will be the best choice, 7800 gs is too expensive for that performance, but is a really nice card. We all hope that the price 4 7800gs will drop below 220 :lol:

 

[bobbydamm]

Circuit City has the EVGA 6800 AGP for $149 after rebates.
Best Buy still has some BFG 6800 GT OC AGP cards for $229
Check em online, but have seen some in Charlotte NC area.

 

[FlyGuy]

I just saw a X850XT AGP at Microcenter yesterday for $199 after $50 MIR. They don't have it on their website though! Perhaps you have one near you....

 

[johnm76]

I went with the 6800GS at ZZF for $198. (Thanks Pauldh) With the free shipping, this was a very good deal. It's the BFG OC version which a lot of people have had luck with going to 16/6 and Ultra speeds, so I'm crossing my fingers. I checked a lot of benchmarks at several different sites (there are lots of 6800GS AGP tests popping up now, thankfully) and the important thing for me was, even at stock speeds, the 6800GS never bogged down at high resolutions. 30fps is fine for me at 1600x1200, while some of the other cards in this price range flat-out died (5-10fps) at anything above 1280x1024.

The $100+ saved will be put to good use in another area, prob a Raptor since Newegg has the 74GB at $138 shipped, after rebate.

Thanks for all the help! -Jon

 

[Sekeru]

if you got the 7800Gs oveclocked verson you would have the fastest agp card out.

 

[HardWareBoss]

Downloaded the new demo. Battle for middle EarthII. I didn't know if my ole TI4200 would play it. During install it said I could not play. Reason no XP!!!!!!!! First time for that one and not my vid card.

 

[cleeve]

Nice pick. $300 on an AGP card would have been a waste, especially since3 you could almost get both a PCI-express card AND pci-e mobo for your Athlon64 at that price.

 

[Dekkard]

I bought the 6800GS a month ago and while that was a huge boost in performance from my old 64MB geforce3 I would say given the opportunity now I would not do the same (even though I got a great deal at $190 for the card). Nvidia seems to be having real problems getting decent drivers out at the moment and no mobo/chipset/CPU group seems to be excluded but if you have an older system you are in particular trouble. Based on the reviews of the 7800GS I just can't see the extra performance offering enough to justify another $100 more. You are far better off going down the PCI-E route now or just not touching anything right now - as far as I am aware there isn't another FEAR or Splinter Cell 3 right around the corner that is suddenly going to render your existing card superfluous.

 

[Dekkard]

I agree. Of course we could track down those PCI-E to AGP bridging chips and do it ourselves on a 7800GT and actually get something that is worth what they charge for it! I find it amusing that the latest 7800GS review here at Toms makes out that the retail pricing on the GS is such a great deal (and makes no mention of the driver issues reported by so many people!!!!!!!!).
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....or those getting freebie cards + incentives......oooh am I a cynic?
I feel sorry for the poor sods out there who think the 7800GS is the schizzle...

 

[conroe]

I bought a x800gto AGP out of the refurbished ben at newegg for $150. It will score just over 5100 in 3dmark05. I don't know what the 7800gs scores, but it's not over twice that!

I think the x850 pe will do better in directX and the 7800gs will do better in openGL(and linux,) like most comparable cards.

 

[bum_jcrules]

But don't forget that the X800 and X850 are only shader 2.0b cards verses the 7800 which is SM3.0. IF you are are twitch FPS player that does not turn up the image quality in single player than SM3.0 means nothing. However, if you like to see all of the eye candy then it makes a HUGE difference.

You can get an EVGA motherboard and 7800GT for $340 at Tiger Direct and buy a 3000+ 939 at Newegg for $160 more. There are so many combinations that can drastically improve over an AGP solution.

I still feel it is much better to do a full upgrade before buying one of these cards. Dekkard mentioned moving from GF3 to 6800GS. That sub $200 is where I hope these cards move to as AGP is a dying breed. Otherwise, upgrade the entire system and buy a cheaper PCIe card for a little more.

 

[cleeve]

But don't forget that the X800 and X850 are only shader 2.0b cards verses the 7800 which is SM3.0. However, if you like to see all of the eye candy then it makes a HUGE difference.

I have yet to see more than 2 or 3 games where it makes a HUGE difference, and they ALL involve OpenEXR HDR lighting.

Otherwise, it's hard as hell to tell a SM 2.0 shader path from a SM 3.0 shader path. Damn near impossible, actually.

 

[Dekkard]

I agree Cleeve, in reality unless you are obsessed with cranking the eye candy up to max you're really not going to appreciate the difference between SM2 and SM3. In fact, SM3 is only going to serve to depreciate your cards performance so if your CPU is on the lower end of game requirements I wouldn't even mess with it.....the only nice part is seeing the additional tests in the benchmarking for SM3....and trust me, I wouldn't lose any sleep if I didn't see those!

 

[pauldh]

I have yet to see more than 2 or 3 games where it makes a HUGE difference, and they ALL involve OpenEXR HDR lighting.

And just what would the 7800GS playable settings be in such games while using HDR? Is it worth the tradeoff? 8O

 

[Dekkard]

A lot depends on the rest of your system, if you have over a gig of RAM, a decent processor (i.e. above 2GHz) then you should be able to crank up most games to at or near max levels (of course, depends on your need - are you fps crazy or eye candy obsessed?). Even with a 6800GS on an antiquated XP1700+ (running at 1.5GHz) I can run most games with full eye candy at 1024 x 768 or higher. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory was playable at 1024 x 768 with everything on high but FEAR I had to crank down to 800 x 600 for smooth performance (but lets face it, I know my CPU is not even close to requisite standards for these games). I can run Lost Coast very nicely at 1024 with all the HDR candy turned on and my God it looks good. Even a month later, every time I kick on that demo I just about pee my pants. With a 7800GS I would anticipate only a modest increase in performance on my PC though (hence I have no interest in buying this card as is).
Personally, I'd recommend keeping an eye out for another rebate offer on the X850XT PE.

 

[pauldh]

Kinda an inside comment since Cleeve and I both had/have 6800U's and find SM3 eye candy to be basically a check box feature... too much for our cards to handle, or too big a tradeoff elsewhere if enabled. I'm not excited about GF6 SM3, or the 7800GS even; cards just too weak IMO.

I have a BFG 6800 Ultra OC, A64 4000+, 2GB Dual Channel OCZ platinum 2-3-2-5 1T, and to me the tradeoff of lowering the resolution to 10x7 or below, as well as disabling FSAA, is too great. Beyond playing with HDR for the ooh and ahh of seeing it (looks amazing I admit), I'd rather turn it and soft shadows off, raise the resolution, and turn on FSAA. So X850XT would usually be better in those situations, at least for the games I play.

 

[S]

I've read all of the reviews and have one myself. As far as I can tell, no there isn't. 7800GS is the top of the AGP heap, assuming you can get an overclocked version or overclock it yourself, anyway.

(Still not sure what a 6800GS AGP even is. 6800GS PCI-E is a nice card, which makes up for fewer pipes with faster clocks. But what does the AGP version do? Does it have more ROP units enabled or something over the PCI-E version's 8? How does it make up for the reduced hardware?)

With an overclocked P4 Northwood (3.52GHz) with fast memory and the 7800GS (462/1.37): Quake 4 and Half Life 2 run at over 60FPS at 1360 by 1020 with the driver PQ settings set to 4x/16x/transparency AA super sampling and high quality. With HDR on (referring to Lost Coast here and above for HL2) the frame rate is about 50FPS in the video stress test, at 960 by 1280, driver settings the same as above.

That said though, you need some serious horsepower to make 1600 by 1200 go, sure upgrading to PCI-E is out of the question?

 

[cleeve]

(Still not sure what a 6800GS AGP even is. 6800GS PCI-E is a nice card, which makes up for fewer pipes with faster clocks. But what does the AGP version do? Does it have more ROP units enabled or something over the PCI-E version's 8? How does it make up for the reduced hardware?)

The AGP 6800 GS isn't as good as the PCI-e version.

The PCI-e card is a new 90nm gpu with 12 pipelines, the AGP parts are old 130nm NV40's with 4 pipes disabled... Basically, an overclocked 6800 AGP.

The only advantage of the AGP 6800 GS cards is that they have a chance to unlock to a full 16 pipes.

 

[dvdpiddy]

dude go on ebay maybe you could find something!