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Just got a 3800 X2, not impressed, am i doing something wrng

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February 14, 2006 1:43:37 PM

Just upgraded from a venice 64 3000 to a 3800 X2, and to be honest, i havent really noticed any difference, ive done a clean install of windows etc, but its just some of the things people wrote about it in other posts, like about doing 2 things at once etc, well according to the task manager bit when im doing anything both cores are apparently working just as hard and i cant really see any difference, i dont know, maybe im expecting too much, or maybe ive not set something up? Is the Kingston Value Ram seriously letting it down?

Is there anything you other X2 users had to do to windows to get the full advantages from the X2?


thanks in advance


cheetsy

More about : 3800 impressed wrng

February 14, 2006 1:48:02 PM

The odds are you aren't doing tasks that are making use of the X2 the way it needs to in order to notice the difference.

Do something like encode a DVD movie to your hard drive and start surfing the net at the same time. Then try that on your stock 3000, I'll bet you'd see a hugh difference.
February 14, 2006 1:50:03 PM

You went from a single core at 2GHz w/512k cache to a dual core at 2GHz w/512k cache.
You should get anywhere from the same performance on single threaded apps up to 60% faster on multi-threaded apps.
Related resources
February 14, 2006 1:58:58 PM

actually my 3000 ran at 1.8, but does 200mhz not make a difference anymore? lol, i mean i wasnt expecting nuclear performance differences but, its just my wife says, well was it worth spending that extra money and not feeding the kids for a week, and i have to say no lol

Actually that was a small humerous interlude, i dont have any kids, annnnyyyywayyy, im not overclocking it cos my ram probably isnt up to it, would overclocking it on stock cooling, assuming i had ram capable to handle the faster fsb, make the difference? prob a stupid question lol
February 14, 2006 2:09:53 PM

It really all boils down to what apps you are using and how much you are actually making use of multi-threaded apps.

It could be that what you used with your 3000 was already not under a processor bottleneck. In that case you wouldn't notice much difference from upping the processor speed or moving to a dual core.

That may not be the answer you are looking for. If you want real numbers you would have to run benchmarking software against your computer that will give you actual multi-threaded results. (The windows task manager isn't really the place to make your determinations off of).

Hope that helps a little.
February 14, 2006 2:15:30 PM

[quote="(The windows task manager isn't really the place to make your determinations off of).[/quote]

ROFL yeah your right lol, yeah, i guess if i wanted a serious performance increase i should of gone for a faster single core processor, ahh well no matter hehe, thanks for you help mate, and the rest of you, cheers!!

cheetsy
February 14, 2006 2:20:40 PM

INSTALL THE AMD DRIVERS! AMD Dual Core driver for 32-bit Windows

That'll give ya a boost. Also ensure BIOS has updated info about your CPU--if not flash to the latest BIOS. Also look here for some other useful cpu utilities and such (or if you use Windows XP Professional x64 edition).

Let me know how it works.
February 14, 2006 2:23:20 PM

Hey mate,

Wasn't trying to kick in your sarcasm gene.

Just hypothesizing about why you may not be seeing the results you want.

The system you describe didn't have many bottlenecks from a performance perspective to begin with:

Good Vid card
Raid 0 Sata 2
2GB DDR 400 (I assume, although most likely slow timing)
Offloaded sound processing via sound card.
Good Motherboard.

All I wanted to get across is that you may need to dig deeper to actually see the gains. Since even with a 3000 the rest of those specs don't leave much for performance enchancements.
February 14, 2006 2:28:49 PM

no no, you misunderstand, i didnt take what you said as an insult or owt, i thought what you said was quite funny and correct lol, yeah thats perhaps my next attack, my ram, cos its only Kingstong Value Ram, no idea of timings, yeah its 3200, nah man i didnt take anything you said the wrong way lol

thanks for your reply :) 
February 14, 2006 2:33:52 PM

Installed the drivers, ive had them before, i thought they were for the cool and quiet part, do they do more than that?


cheetsy
February 14, 2006 2:36:44 PM

My fault, I apologize.

I happen to like OCZ and Patriot's high performance kits:

OCZ 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Platinum System Memory Model OCZ4002048ELDCPE-K - Retail

Patriot 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model PDC2G3200LLK - Retail


They are both 2-3-2-5 which is about as fast as you'll find for 2x 1GB dimms. Of course they aren't cheap, I think those kits are around 200US.
February 14, 2006 2:42:27 PM

The only problem i have is that im a brit living in taiwan, and, although i guess most stuff is made in taiwan, its not all sold in taiwan. specialist stuff is quite hard to find, i was lucky enough to get the graphics card, but this is entirely a different problem lol, thanks for the info on the ram, ill keep an eye out!
February 14, 2006 2:45:33 PM

Yes. They are drivers--they "supposedly" improve performance of dual-core cpus for apps that aren't designed to utilise both cores. That's according to AMD anyway.
February 14, 2006 2:47:18 PM

lol well there in there now so i hope it does make a difference lol
thanks for that mate
February 14, 2006 3:07:23 PM

I think you're being a little optimistic about dual core. Right now very few common apps actually take advantage of dual core. Some apps that do (off the top of my head) would be audio and video encoding and a few games.

Doing things like surfing the net, playing with winamp, word, etc... you're not going to see a difference in performance.

-mpjesse
February 14, 2006 3:14:57 PM

Dude, i'm using cheap RAM and look how far I've clocked my machine on it. You can do it man, just take it nice and slow.

Oh, and if you happen to divorce over buying that processor, tell her you'll give her one core and she can have the other. :wink: just kidding of course ..
February 14, 2006 3:15:01 PM

lol weep, oh well fair nuff lol, well it improves my pc on paper ROFL ahh vanity!!
February 14, 2006 3:17:33 PM

really oh right, oh ill have a crack then! so i just ramp up the fsb 1mhz at a time i take it?


and thanks for the marriage advice lol, or rather divorce advise, good idea, like that movie when they devide the house up exactly in half
February 14, 2006 3:22:21 PM

Yep, that's all you gotta do man. Just take it one step at a time and test the machine for stability. Use Prime95 or equivalent. Should work out good.
February 14, 2006 3:24:19 PM

fair enough mate, ill have a crack, thanks a lot!


cheetsy
February 14, 2006 4:20:35 PM

you need windows NT 4, windows 2000 professional, or windows XP professional to make use of multi-processing/threading (ie: 2 cpus). I beleive dual core is considered 2 cpus.

9x/me/xp-home do not have support for multi-processing.
February 14, 2006 5:48:27 PM

ok... was your 3000 slow? if your 3000 was pretty fast, having the 3800 isn't gonna make much difference. It's when you start doing heavy stuff, like playing a game and running a virus scan or DVD encoding/decoding that you'll notice the difference. :) 
February 15, 2006 12:48:17 AM

I run XP Pro, and the 3000 was fine I dont remember it being particually slow, i probably just had the wrong expectations of a dual core, mpjesse and most of you are saying, im doing the wrong things with it i suspect, shame i dont convert dvd's anymore lol
February 15, 2006 12:58:14 AM

I'd say your harddrives could be slowing things down...
February 15, 2006 12:59:48 AM

why? i thought 2 sata II hdd's in a striped raid array would be fairly good...
February 15, 2006 1:03:20 AM

well, it depends on the ms response time, and the actual speed. Having a 10,000 RPM HDD in there is much faster than having a RAID. THG has done research on this. I don't know that that's causing a problem, I'm just guessing it may be. I myself run a SATA 7200RPM 80GB, with an Intel P4 3.0Ghz... runs very fast.
February 15, 2006 1:18:17 AM

You should notice a small performance boost if you go to a low latency ram. I used to run the same ram you are running and went to OCZ el platinum. I love it, its fast and very stable. You will see an improvement in your cpu scores in most benchmarks. I just upgraded again to the 2x 1gig OCZ and am very pleased with it as well. Because of AMD's integrated memory controller it really takes full use of fast ram, the faster the better. You will start to see the benefits of your upgrade over the next year or so. As games and software start to make use of dual processors. Windows Vista will make excellent use of it as well which will be out towards the end of the year. If your wondering what your current ram is running at you can download cpuz, its free and it works great. It will tell you all your ram vital info.


3500+ winny stock speed
MSI NEO 4 SLI Plat
2gigs OCZ EL Plat 2.2.3.5.1T
1x BFG 7800GT OC 470/1200
74gig Raptor
36gig Raptor
500 Ultra PSU

3dmark05 score 8025
February 15, 2006 1:37:16 AM

thats a surprise to me, im just building a new system and will take ur thoughts into account, multi core software just around the corner, that will make the diff. u will see and feel. :!:
February 15, 2006 2:02:59 AM

Quote:
thats a surprise to me, im just building a new system and will take ur thoughts into account, multi core software just around the corner, that will make the diff. u will see and feel. :!:

I have been hearing around the corner for six months
i TO am depressed on my 3800x2 i upgraded from a sckt478 p4 3.0Ghz ht and its not any faster still takes the same time to run norton av ,maybe few seconds faster. Quake 4 runs better but i attribute that 2 my new 7800gt
i just bought a pcie mobo for my p4 and will compare, i guess i will look for some low latency ram before i compare.
February 15, 2006 3:37:24 AM

i read something in toms or other that said to stick to the low range of a new platform and put the x bucks in graphics seems to be right now. i cant decide to go for the build now or wait fo m2. awash in pros and cons :) 
February 15, 2006 4:30:21 AM

cheetsy , did/have you tried to overclock yet? I have/will not, Thats what alot of people are telling me to do. I am just thinking of returning my 3800x2 to fry's ( i still have 10 days left and going with a single amd 4000+)
February 15, 2006 4:57:05 AM

IF U DO GET THE SANDIAGO CODE NOT CLAWHAMMER FOR MORE TRANSISTORS AND SSE3 BUT IN MY OPINION UR BETTER OFF WITH THE 3800, FUTURE PROOFING :!:
February 15, 2006 5:29:06 AM

If you are primarily a gamer, stay with sigle core. If you are a normal user, stay with single core. Dont go dual core because you have 9 or 10 I.E windows open. Dont even go dual core if you want to skype while you game.
If you use dual core progs, like photoshop all the time, go dual core.
If you want a "download complete" message, in game, go dual core.
If you want to use the console version of F@H, go dual core. If you want to encode a DVD, while coverting mp3 files, get a dual core.
But remember, if you dont do the dual core stuff all the time, it may not be worth the extra cost. Most people would probably be better off just using thier old computer to do secondary tasks.
February 15, 2006 12:07:23 PM

yeah i want low latency ram and i want raptors, but when i asked about raptors, through my wife (im a brit living in taiwan and i dont speak chinese) the man (not my wife, shes a woman) laughed at me and said they were too expensive, i mean thats just one shop ofcourse but it seems to be the same everywhere, i mean, they do earn 50 pence an hour at KFC so i dont suppose many taiwanese people buy low latency ram or raptors lol. but yeah i dont use my pc for encoding any more or anything like that, i wouldnt know how to use photoshop as much as i would like to, im an occasional gamer and a regular internet user, and downloader, i often download many files at the same time, ie BT or Limewire, but thats about it, somebody told me that a dual core combined with my 7800gt would give me around a 20 percent FPS boost on games because the compatible nvidia drivers palm off some of the work to the second cpu core, but, havent really played any games yet to see.


In response to IcBlUsCrn (damn you for your pain in the ass to type name!! jk :p  ) I havent tried overclocking yet, just didnt want to cause any problems with my ram, is there a special way of doing it, i mean, do i say, drop the fsb so i can ramp up the cas latency or however it works? the last thing i over clocked was a barton 2500 and that went up to 3000 cos was the same voltage etc so was easy to do, no extra heat, no messing with the fsb. or did i take it up to 2800? hmm
February 15, 2006 12:18:36 PM

just to let you know cpuz says my ram latency times are 3-3-8-11 lol ouch!

thats 2x 1gig kingston value ram sticks
February 20, 2006 7:07:46 PM

Spam, ignore his post...
February 20, 2006 7:18:07 PM

bourgeoisdude what are we supposed to do?
February 20, 2006 9:36:02 PM

I thought I was pretty clear...ignore his post. Click "Report this Post" (on mwang's post) if you want to complain to the moderaters.
February 20, 2006 9:51:15 PM

HAHHAA.. thats one of the coolest sites I've seen.

This is one of the funniest videos ever!!

COW FIGHT
February 20, 2006 9:55:01 PM

I really, really, really like mine ... but then, my upgrade was from an Athlon 64 3000+ Winchester.
February 20, 2006 10:26:54 PM

I really, really, really, really like mine... I jumped from a k6 2000+.



steady as a rock.....

February 20, 2006 11:06:36 PM

the only way u see a difference is when u multi task... if ur not a multi tasker u wont see any thing different but, if ur like me I can compress a dvd with dvd rebuilder on one core and also play call of duty 2 and surf the web all at the same time... but u need 2 gigs of ram to be able to do all of those things
February 20, 2006 11:49:43 PM

yeah, i know, i should of gone for the 64 3500, was half the price too!!
February 21, 2006 9:25:58 AM

Quote:
Just upgraded from a venice 64 3000 to a 3800 X2, and to be honest, i havent really noticed any difference, ive done a clean install of windows etc, but its just some of the things people wrote about it in other posts, like about doing 2 things at once etc, well according to the task manager bit when im doing anything both cores are apparently working just as hard and i cant really see any difference, i dont know, maybe im expecting too much, or maybe ive not set something up? Is the Kingston Value Ram seriously letting it down?

Is there anything you other X2 users had to do to windows to get the full advantages from the X2?


thanks in advance


cheetsy


Ive also got a 3800+ x 2!!!!

If anything when running in XP (home or Pro) Its worse perfomance than a single core! The problem is not purely due to AMD x 2. Its to do with XP - and applications that are not coded to run on two - TRUE CPUs.

In Intels Hyper Threading, single threaded apps just default to single core threads. In a CPU with two true cores, single threaded applications can go off and "lose their way." With the result in that perfomance can suffer.

Heres one MS article:

http://support.microsoft.com/Default.aspx?id=896256

The AMD forum link is http://forums.amd.com/index.php?showtopic=64936
February 21, 2006 9:28:32 AM

also make sure u have the x2 patch from amd site and also get the dual core fix from ms site also that help out alot with the performace issues... just remember single cores are dead this time next year we will be at quad cores from both amd and intell

i know my typing is bad lol but its 4am and baby just got up and I just so happend to check my e-mails :) 
February 21, 2006 11:46:30 AM

grrr i so should of stuck with single core, i mean when am i ever going to rip and dvd and play games lol, damn it!!! thanks for the article links!
February 21, 2006 11:48:47 AM

the only patch i could find was the one that sorts out all the power throttling and i believe the ms one refers to the same

sorry to hear bout ya kid lol, me and my new wife are hopefully 2yrs away from a child, but we will see!
February 21, 2006 12:34:41 PM

hmm,

I didn't do none of that, I did disable the cool-n-quiet tho'.

the only other difference is I am using Win2k Pro. w/SP4
February 21, 2006 12:37:32 PM

Quote:
grrr i so should of stuck with single core, i mean when am i ever going to rip and dvd and play games lol, damn it!!! thanks for the article links!


I did not plan to go Dual core. It was purely the fault of the supplier who could not deliver me a straight 3200 AMD 64!!!

So, in despiration and anger, I went and splashed out on a 3800+ x2 - which was not a good idea.....since I spent since Nov 2005 - sufferring from frame lagg! So I put my self in for a nightmarish time.

I changed - PSU, Mobo, HDD and even sold me GT 6600 and settled for just 1 PCIE card. Many, many, many reinstalls and Ghostings and a new copy of XP home - genuine.....turns out the prob is this ..........arrrgg! So I know .... I know .... how you feel.

PS....my machine is running great now!!!! Whoo hoo - flying machine!!! Im just waiting for the multithreaded s/w next year.... maybe.
February 21, 2006 12:48:42 PM

Quote:
grrr i so should of stuck with single core, i mean when am i ever going to rip and dvd and play games lol, damn it!!! thanks for the article links!


I did not plan to go Dual core. It was purely the fault of the supplier who could not deliver me a straight 3200 AMD 64!!!

So, in despiration and anger, I went and splashed out on a 3800+ x2 - which was not a good idea.....since I spent since Nov 2005 - sufferring from frame lagg! So I put my self in for a nightmarish time.

I changed - PSU, Mobo, HDD and even sold me GT 6600 and settled for just 1 PCIE card. Many, many, many reinstalls and Ghostings and a new copy of XP home - genuine.....turns out the prob is this ..........arrrgg! So I know .... I know .... how you feel.

PS....my machine is running great now!!!! Whoo hoo - flying machine!!! Im just waiting for the multithreaded s/w next year.... maybe.


im steady telling u why ur having that problem and u wont fix it.... u need the amd x2 patch from there website and then u need the windows dual core patch from there website and then u wont have the frame lag with older games.
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