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Help deciding on an LCD for FPS gaming

Last response: in Computer Peripherals
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Anonymous
January 24, 2002 3:31:51 PM

I've read most of the posts here, and while they help a lot, they are also making my decision much harder!

I want an LCD primarily for playing FPS games on. I am very limited in space and need to use an LCD. I can spend up to $800 but would rather get a real quality 15" than a decent quality 17". Additionally, dead pixels are a pet-pieve of mine and I need to be able to replace it if the pixel is driving me nuts. I would pay extra to get a flawless LCD.

I was sold on the EIZO from toms article, but I can't find anyone that guarantees no dead pixels (i.e. return policy). I called EIZO, and they said they only replace an LCD if it has more than SIX DEAD PIXELS! OMG. But you guys seem to be saying there are monitors that rival the specs and performance of the EIZO.

Can anyone recommend an LCD for FPS gaming, and a place to buy it from that will allow me to return it if there are dead pixels? Interestingly, Best Buy does allow you to return ANYTHING within 14 days and I confirmed that includes LCDs with ANY dead pixels. But they have a crap selection of LCDs and really high prices from what I can tell.

All help is appreciated!

Ron
Anonymous
January 24, 2002 4:42:51 PM

I've read most of the posts here now, and it really looks like the Compaq is the right monitor for me. HOWEVER, nobody carries them around here (Chicago area) that will allow me to return it if it has dead pixels.

Also, I can't find the refresh rate of the TFT5030. Is it the same 25ms as the TFT7020?

Ron
January 24, 2002 5:04:39 PM

I'm also from the Chicago area. Have you tried CDW at all? I'm not sure of their policy...

The 5030 does have a 25ms response time. The 8030(pricey) has a 20ms response time.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 24, 2002 5:24:07 PM

Yes, they are always my first choice always for returnable items, although Krex computers is where I do most of my CPU/motherboard shopping.

CDW has a restriction on Compaq monitor returns unfortunately, but they don't on the very similar Planar and Princeton versions (apparently uses the same screens as they have almost identical specs). They will replace for any reason in the first 30 days. I'm simply going to test it in the showroom, which they said they will allow. The Planar and Princeton also have USB hubs and swivel portrait to landscape, but the Princeton has better resolution options. Stealing from the Princeton site, I found:

Princeton SENergy 750
- 17.4" Active Matrix TFT Display
- Digital and Analog Interfaces
- 160º Super Wide Viewing Angle
- Multi-Domain Pixel Technology
- 400:1 Super High Contrast Ratio
- Ultra Fast 25ms Video Response Time
- High Brightness and Contrast
- 1600 x 1200 Maximum Resolution
- Sleek One Touch Control Dial
- Positional High Resolution On-Screen Display
- Four-Way Ergonomic Adjustment: Tilt, Swivel, Height and Pivot
- Pivot® Enabled (Portrait Display Pivot® software included)
- VESA® Wall/Arm Mount Ready
- Built-in USB Hub
- Advanced Digital Zooming and Panning
- Plug and Play Ready
- TCO'99 Compliant
- Full 3-Year Limited Warranty

I'm going to wait to see if anyone has any reason that I shouldn't get the Princeton, and if it's all thumbs up, I'm getting it tomorrow as they have them in stock.

Ron

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by computerboy on 01/24/02 02:27 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 24, 2002 5:36:23 PM

I was under the assumption that going higher than the Native resolution wouldn't produce a good picture. I have a GF3 card with a DVI connection so I am using that and had planned on using the 1280x1024. Is the 1600x1200 going to even be useful?

Thanks!
Anonymous
January 24, 2002 5:56:19 PM

Realistically, probably not. I wouldn't use it. It's just that if they feel comfortable rating the highest resolution at 1600x1200, they must feel pretty comfortable at 1280x1024 which is the higest I would ever use it at. To me, it's just more reason to feel comfortable that I'm getting a quality product is all.

Ron
Anonymous
January 24, 2002 6:05:35 PM

Why not just order the TFT7020 direct from Compaq? Shipping is free, and they have excellent customer support + return policies on their high end business products like the TFT5030, 7020, and 8030.

I just purchased a TFT7020 and if not satisified I will return it for a 5030, and if not satisfied with that I will return it for my money back.

Plus, the Compaq business department is one of the few companies in the world that you can call and get a straight answer from every single rep you talk to. It may not be an answer you like (ie - currently out of stock on a replacement panel and they won't be in until next week), but you'll get the same response from every single rep.

I just don't see how that is a bad deal? :)  Well, other than the fact that I only WISH I could afford an 8030.. but hey, we can't have it all, can we?

-eep
Anonymous
January 24, 2002 6:08:11 PM

Compaq has a no-questions-asked return policy? That changes things. I'll call them up.

Ron
Anonymous
January 24, 2002 6:22:58 PM

I just spoke with them, and while they had never heard of a dead-pixel return policy, they stated that you can return a product for ANY reason within 30 days and they felt that was including pixel defects. Additionally, their monitor appears to be less expensive than the Princeton and Planar that I see at CDW, although I'm sure I could dicker until it was the same price. In any case, the direct Compaq purchase is sounding real good to me right now.

Ron
January 24, 2002 6:33:18 PM

Yeah, the free shipping is enticing. That's why I'm still researching it. There are a lot of raves about the 7020, and the 5030 and 8030 as well. I may hold out for the 8030, but that is pricey. Thanks for the info...
January 24, 2002 8:38:29 PM

I have a TFt7020, which costs $800, and is a top of the line crazy ass LCD, and the pic is amazing. Unreal is like woah! Plus the silver looks nice;) I would go for that, and if you are a student, go for an educational discount- free 2nd day air+ I got my TFT7020 for $645!! Uh, btw, TFT5030 has 20ms response time. I'm not too sure if the TFT8030 will be very nice, cause 300:1 contrast ain't good (otherwise I woulda gotten that if it had 400:1!). Also, the DVI on the TFT7020 is sweet- now the only limit to how sharp it is is your vision! And about the customer service- yeah, it is great. Also, dead pixels aren't that bad, consider how many pixels u do have on a display, and then 3 out of that- I mean for a TFT7020, that's 1310720 pixels in total- 3 won't matter.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
January 24, 2002 8:39:59 PM

going higher than the max res will do weird shiit man, don't consider that. It'll just pull weird interpolation crap on u.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
January 24, 2002 9:29:28 PM

Dead pixels toward the edge of the screen are kinda like horizontal damp wires, only noticeable if you look for them. But right smack in the middle? Very noticeable. Make sure you CAN return within 30days at least, for any reason.
January 24, 2002 9:42:02 PM

Sorry about the mistake on the 5030, 20ms is great. I may still consider the 5030 as well, it sounds like a nice monitor. I'll have to see how much I can get the 7020 for, it sounds like that has more positive reviews by users....

Thanks
January 26, 2002 12:02:28 PM

<i><b>"Uh, btw, TFT5030 has 20ms response time"</i></b>

Yeah, I saw it on Compaq's site and I have only one thing to say: <b>BULLSH*T!</b>

How come no other manufacturer who is using 15'' Sharp panels in their monitors, claims it has 20ms response time?

20ms my as*...
Anonymous
January 26, 2002 11:56:52 PM

Ok, I placed the order today with Compaq (over the web) for a TFT7020. They say there's a 14 day return-with-no-questions-asked and that's good enough for me. Everything that I've seen says this is a great monitor for playing games and customer support will help me out if there's problems. So plunging into the water. ;) 

I requested 2nd day shipping so I'll have it Tuesday or Wednesday. I'll post my impressions an stuff then.

Ron
January 27, 2002 1:09:02 PM

Aw, is someone jealous?

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
January 27, 2002 1:32:57 PM

I agree with the SoBizarre.

I doubt the Compaq has 20ms responce times. I never seen any monitor that has less than 25ms. What did COMPAQ find a new way to lessen the response times?

Compaq is just trying to take advantage of people that are obsessed with specs. Or it's a misprint. This just gives them a reason to charge some of the highest prices on the LCD's on the market for no apparent reason.
January 27, 2002 2:11:03 PM

First off, $645 is not expensive for a top of the line LCD. What is wrong w/ having a 20ms response time? That is highly posible- considering that MVA can be pushed to 20ms response time. I belive that somehow Sharp's technology maybe a spinoff of MVA- ie it made it better, but it could be a totally different technology. In that case, ask how they pushed TN film on the L365 to 25ms!

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
January 27, 2002 4:40:00 PM

It made it better? Ok, I have to jump in here, because it does seem odd that this is the only LCD with a 20ms Respond time. Have any sites reviewed and tested the LCD to see if the response time was correct?

Jack Burton is a great man...
January 27, 2002 5:32:38 PM

There have been reviews, and in high motion, there hasn't been ghosting. You draw conclusions.....

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
January 27, 2002 5:45:46 PM

Well there wouldn't be ghosting at 25ms either. I want to know if they are falsely advertising their product.

Jack Burton is a great man...
January 27, 2002 5:59:02 PM

And how do u plan to do this?

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
January 28, 2002 1:48:04 AM

Well personaly I would not know how to test it, but I am sure there has been a reviewer or will be that will do so.

Jack Burton is a great man...
January 28, 2002 9:35:09 AM

Well, I've send E-mail to the guy who did TFT comparison on THG and I hope he can help us to clear this matter. If Compaq's flat panels have in fact response times as advertised, it would make them <b>by far</b> the fastest in the market. If that's the case, we have the perfect solution for gaming and DVD watching; If not, we have yet another company trying to trick people to buy their products. We shall see if THG is going to give us some answers...

Cheers,
SB
Anonymous
January 28, 2002 1:43:12 PM

Well, I'm MR. first person shooter and play a lot of very graphical games. I'm playing Everquest mostly now, which was recently upgraded to DirectX 8.1, and requirs at least 512 megs memory to show all the textures and true object models. It also uses T&L. It's very state of the art and with all options and models on, even my system has frame rate issues.

Right now I have an Athlon 1900+, 512 megs of DDR DRAM, Gainward Geforce3 (both digital and analog outs), and a host of other speedy things not worth mentioning. I run every game I play in Quintex FSAA, 1024x768, 32 bit color. I need to have good quality gaming and will spend whatever money I need to, to make it happen.

SO what my point is, is that I'm a very picky graphical gamer and when I get my TFT7020 on Wednesday I'll post a gamer's perspective, no punches pulled, on the monitor. I'm not the type to support something just because I bought it, so we'll see how it fares.

Ron
January 28, 2002 3:02:15 PM

Ron,

I look forward to your opinion. I just got my new system this weekend and it sounds nearly identical to yours, XP 1900+, Gainward GF3, 1024MB RAM, XP, Audigy, etc. I picked up some Monsoon MM2000 speakers today and the monitor in a couple of weeks. I'm using an old CRT for now. I'm real interested to hear an opinion as I've been unable to find a review on the 7020 anywhere other than personal opinions(which have all been A+).

Thanks,
Frank
Anonymous
January 28, 2002 7:31:52 PM

I just had it confirmed that the monitor was shipped today and I requested UPS 2 day blue label, meaning a Wednesday arrival. I'm pretty excited. I got my wife to stay home from work to receive the package. ;) 

Ron
January 28, 2002 7:40:34 PM

You'll get it Monday. Reason is UPS will not come by your house the first 2 times, then when u call, they'll bitch and not come. Then Monday you will go pick it up since weekends they are closed. When you get it, it will be broken. Sorry, I just hate UPS cause they killed my TFT7020 that way.....

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
January 28, 2002 7:41:37 PM

Seriously though, enjoy. One question- when did u purchase it?

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
January 28, 2002 7:43:30 PM

Frank, what exactly do u want reviewed on the TFT7020? Ask and I'll do it.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
January 28, 2002 8:55:58 PM

Flame

Based on the fact that Sharp and Fujitsu are competitors, I doubt the sharp panel is based on any MVA technology. The 20ms must be a typo or some other error. Don’t believe everything you read on the Internet.

BTW response time varies mainly due to temperature. In colder temps response time increases. 20ms or 25ms your splitting hairs and you cannot tell the difference unless you are in marketing then it becomes a big deal.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hadware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
January 28, 2002 9:07:35 PM

yes, I know that temp. will influence response time. The reason I said ASV may be similr to MVA is that first look at the specs- they look like those of MVA. Next, reviews of it have basically been like reviews of MVA, but simply with lesser issues.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
January 29, 2002 3:35:33 AM

Nothing specific really, just more information. A purchase as big as this is something I research and research to death. I've seen a lot of personal opinions, but not one review by a major site or magazine.

My use will be for web design, photo editing, gaming, and general use. I think gaming is the biggest test of these, though the way colors show is important in designing sites and such...

I have not heard anything bad from anyone on the 7020. That is something I cannot say about any of the other monitors I've seen, inclusing those with similar specs.

Thanks
Anonymous
January 30, 2002 10:55:57 PM

I got my my TFT7020 today, and immediately pulled it out of the box and hooked it up to my machine. Interestingly, all of the documentation is on CD, but there are 2 books supplied with the monitor. "Worldwide Limited Warrany Statement" and "Important Safety Information" are possibly the most entertaining books I've read......no seriously....

I hooked up the monitor to my DVI connector, leaving my SyncMaster 955DF (19") monitor connected to the analog output of my Gainward GeForce3 card. The first thing I noticed is that the LCD viewing area is almost the same size as my 19" monitor! It's huge!

I then used the standard Nvidia Detonator drivers (23.11) to switch to the Digital Flat Panel selection that automatically popped up once I had connected the monitor. Viola! Then the oooohing and aaaaaahing started. I immediately cranked up Everquest to see how well it would handle some complex 3D graphics. Wow! Amazing I must say. Spinning around many complex objects left NO ghosting whatsoever. I TRIED to make it ghost, and it just didn't happen. The colors are very vibrant, however I found that I needed to turn down the contrast to suit my liking. No problem there, it's set to 90 out of 100 from the factory. It's VERY bright at 90. Then the important DEAD PIXEL test was required. Amazingly, I could not find ONE dead pixel! Simply put, the image and performance is STUNNING. I was extremely pleased.

The controls are very easy to use, and the hardware is really sturdy. All in all I could not have been more pleased by this monitor. It is MUCH larger than I imagined in my mind, even though I should have realized a 19" "normal" monitor doesn't have 19" viewable. This LCD really is just about the same size. It's light, handsome, and just simply amazing for anything I could have imagined for an LCD.

Granted, I've only used it for one day now, but I am really happy I made this purchase and did it direct from Compaq. I placed the order on Saturday, the monitor was shipped Monday, and delivered to my house on Wednesday (I requested blue label which cost my $9.00 since the warehouse was so close (in Indiana).

Obviously, I can't compare this to other LCDs because I don't use many of them. But I can tell you I could use this LCD IN PLACE of my 19" monitor and not shed one tear whatsoever. I would and will recommend this LCD to ANYone that plays any kinds of games. The one thing I did notice was that my regular CRT monitor seems to be a bit sharper but it is very very close. It's destined for my second computer actually, but next time I don't think I'll be purchasing a regular CRT. By that time, based on what I see here, LCDs are going to be a standard.

Ron
January 30, 2002 10:59:39 PM

In what sense do u mean ur CRT is sharper, and also, was the LCD at native res? I know that I can't even compare my TFT7020 to my 15" CRT- I can't stand the CRT after using the LCd since the lcd is sooo much sharper!

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
January 30, 2002 11:00:02 PM

btw, glad that u like it.

Only if you let me see the Umpa Lumpa- Homer Simpson.
Anonymous
January 31, 2002 2:56:57 AM

It's the nature of LCDs that I'm noticing I think. It's very bright, and colors seem to blend just a little bit. It could be my imagination, but for instance a black box sitting next to a white box has a slightly more definite edge on the CRT. My CRT is also a 19" and is known for it's very sharp picture. But let me play with it more.

However, I just want to say again how awesome this LCD looks. I was hoping for something really good, and it's something that AMAZINGLY good.

Ron
January 31, 2002 5:43:54 AM

Hi
The only bad thing I have to say about the 7020 is the viewing angle. It is not near what the specs says. 160 degrees vertical/horizontal is way too high. I think it is nearer 90 degrees - MAX. Does anyone else have this impression of the 7020 ?

Nick

The only way I heat up my house is by overclocking my cpu :tongue:
Anonymous
January 31, 2002 12:11:26 PM

I agree that the viewing angles aren't excellent.

They are acceptable to me though, as I spend 99% of my viewing time directly in front of the monitor. Also, unlike a heavy CRT you can swivel the flat panel left or right very easily. So if I'm showing something to a friend I can just swivel it over so that they see the picture better.

Works for me. :) 
Anonymous
January 31, 2002 3:26:30 PM

You mean at certain angles after 90 degrees, images become a little distorted? Yes, I agree. However when I tried the same angles on my CRT, while the images didn't distort, they were actually less recognizable in my opinion. Maybe this is due to the luminescence of the LCD. In any case, for all the viewing angles I would ever use it at I don't get any distortion at all.

On laptops, the viewing angle drastically affects the contrast and brightness, making it impossible to use unless you're looking at almost a perpendicular angle. On this LCD that is not the case whatsoever, you only get a slight distortion of the image.

I'd be interested to see other LCDs at different angles. I wonder if this is just the status quo?

Ron
!