Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Can you use PIGMENTED inks in a R200 by either refilling o..

Last response: in Computer Peripherals
Share
December 4, 2004 10:20:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I'm new the EPSON... I've been a looong time HP user. I recently got an
Epson R200 because I wanted to print onto DVDRs. I'm in the market for a
continuous ink system for my R200 now... and one of the questions I had was
can I use Pigmented inks in a CIS or by refilling the carts with Pigmented
inks?

As I understand it, pigmented inks give you better quality prints, truer
colors and are much longer lasting. Plus as I understand it, the R200 uses
DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800. The epson rep told me the heads in
the R800 and R200/R300 (et al) are all the same print head? So that sounds
to me like I can use pigmented inks... But I know the experts here will
chime in :) 

THANKS IN ADVANCE.
Anonymous
December 4, 2004 10:20:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Te" <te@-NOSPAM-pobox.com> wrote in message
news:l6osd.509758$D%.488275@attbi_s51...
> As I understand it, pigmented inks give you better quality prints, truer
> colors and are much longer lasting. Plus as I understand it, the R200 uses
> DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800. The epson rep told me the heads in
> the R800 and R200/R300 (et al) are all the same print head? So that sounds
> to me like I can use pigmented inks... But I know the experts here will
> chime in :) 

I am not an expert on the Epson inks but generally there are different
servicing requirements for pigmented vs. dye based inks. I would expect some
potential issues with nozzle clogging if you use pigmented inks in a printer
whose firmware is designed for dye based inks.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 3:20:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

A small point of order, if I may:

Dye-based inks: inks that contain only dyes.
Pigmented inks: dye-based inks that have some pigments added.
Pigment-based inks: inks that contain only pigments.

Epson inks are either dye-based or pigment-based. There are no Epson
pigmented inks.

Thank you for your indulgence.

Jon.
Related resources
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 5:16:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

One of the main features of piezo head design is how forgiving they are
with ink formulations.

Thermal heads require the ink boils at a certain temperature and
maintains a certain viscosity during the printing process.

Piezo technology is more forgiving because the ink is mechanically
propelled without heating, and the ink nozzles can be considerably
larger then the ink droplet, using the frequency the piezo element is
activated to determine how much ink is released.

Although I don't suggest trying to run ketchup and mustard through them,
as long as the ink is within certain tolerances and of a small enough
particle size, it may well work. Piezo heads are being used for
everything from dye sublimation inks, to solvent inks, to oil based
inks, to conductive inks, to plastics, to food dyes, etc, etc.

So, as to your question, yes, there are dozens of 3rd party ink
formulations that work with Epson printers. SOme work better than
others. Pigmented inks are more abrasive than dye inks, because
pigmented inks are made up of actual particles of colorant kept in
suspension in the carrier agent. Dyes are molecular and are literally
dissolved into the carrier. Over time, therefore, pigmented inks do
wear the heads more than dye inks. For the average piezo inkhead
printer, it is not too significant an issue.

Although I have not looked around, I suspect there are both pigmented
inks being should 3rd party for the R200, and CISs. My only concern is
the CIS is usually costly enough to make it worthwhile to consider if
buying a more robust printer may be worthwhile with a costly investment
of a CIS and bulk inks. It is not that the R200 will product poor
prints, because it doesn't, but it is designed as an economy printer,
and it's cost reflects that. Most people using a CIS print great sums
of prints in a short period and a printer with a higher duty cycle may
be more reliable.

Art

Art


Te wrote:

> I'm new the EPSON... I've been a looong time HP user. I recently got an
> Epson R200 because I wanted to print onto DVDRs. I'm in the market for a
> continuous ink system for my R200 now... and one of the questions I had was
> can I use Pigmented inks in a CIS or by refilling the carts with Pigmented
> inks?
>
> As I understand it, pigmented inks give you better quality prints, truer
> colors and are much longer lasting. Plus as I understand it, the R200 uses
> DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800. The epson rep told me the heads in
> the R800 and R200/R300 (et al) are all the same print head? So that sounds
> to me like I can use pigmented inks... But I know the experts here will
> chime in :) 
>
> THANKS IN ADVANCE.
>
>
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 5:25:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Hi Bob,

You raise a reasonable issue, at least in theory.

I can't speak specifically for the R200, because I don't think it has
been out there long enough to make a qualified response, but, there are
a great number of Epson dye ink printers out in the world which people
have converted to pigmented inks, including the 860, 870, 880, the 1200
series (1200, 1270, 1280, 1290) as well as the 3000 and others and in
general, they are no more problematical in terms of general maintenance
than any Epson printer designed around pigmented inks.

In general, I would say pigmented ink formulations tend to be a little
more demanding of keeping up maintenance to avoid problems.

Art

Bob Headrick wrote:

> "Te" <te@-NOSPAM-pobox.com> wrote in message
> news:l6osd.509758$D%.488275@attbi_s51...
>
>>As I understand it, pigmented inks give you better quality prints, truer
>>colors and are much longer lasting. Plus as I understand it, the R200 uses
>>DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800. The epson rep told me the heads in
>>the R800 and R200/R300 (et al) are all the same print head? So that sounds
>>to me like I can use pigmented inks... But I know the experts here will
>>chime in :) 
>
>
> I am not an expert on the Epson inks but generally there are different
> servicing requirements for pigmented vs. dye based inks. I would expect some
> potential issues with nozzle clogging if you use pigmented inks in a printer
> whose firmware is designed for dye based inks.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
>
>
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 5:33:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Someone made a point some time back of admonishing me for using the
terms dye-based and pigment based, stating, correctly, I suppose, that
the "base" of these inks is neither dye nor pigment, but that the
colorants are of one or the other. Their point being that the "base"
was water, glycol, alcohols, resins, etc.

Although you are correct that Epson OEM inks either use dye colorants or
pigment colorants, there are indeed hybrid or dye and pigment colorant
inks which are produced 3rd party, specifically designed for Epson
printers.

Art

Jon O'Brien wrote:

> A small point of order, if I may:
>
> Dye-based inks: inks that contain only dyes.
> Pigmented inks: dye-based inks that have some pigments added.
> Pigment-based inks: inks that contain only pigments.
>
> Epson inks are either dye-based or pigment-based. There are no Epson
> pigmented inks.
>
> Thank you for your indulgence.
>
> Jon.
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 6:35:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <hbjtd.326990$9b.167823@edtnps84>, artistic@telus.net (Arthur
Entlich) wrote:

> Someone made a point some time back of admonishing me for using the
> terms dye-based and pigment based, stating, correctly, I suppose, that
> the "base" of these inks is neither dye nor pigment, but that the
> colorants are of one or the other. Their point being that the "base"
> was water, glycol, alcohols, resins, etc.

Fair point. The word 'base' does have a specific meaning when talking
about inks which is at odds with the way I used it. You win the
hair-splitting award! :-)

> Although you are correct that Epson OEM inks either use dye colorants
> or pigment colorants, there are indeed hybrid or dye and pigment
> colorant inks which are produced 3rd party, specifically designed for
> Epson printers.

I meant that in connection with the OP's: "Plus as I understand it, the
R200 uses DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800", which I took to refer to
the OEM inks. That's why I used the phrase 'Epson inks', rather than 'inks
for Epson printers'.

Jon.
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 6:35:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <B3jtd.326985$9b.260268@edtnps84>, artistic@telus.net (Arthur
Entlich) wrote:

> ...any Epson printer designed around pigmented inks.

Oh, bad luck! You just forfeited that hair-splitting award. :-)

Jon.
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 4:55:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Jon O'Brien wrote:

> In article <hbjtd.326990$9b.167823@edtnps84>, artistic@telus.net (Arthur
> Entlich) wrote:
>
>
>
>>Although you are correct that Epson OEM inks either use dye colorants
>>or pigment colorants, there are indeed hybrid or dye and pigment
>>colorant inks which are produced 3rd party, specifically designed for
>>Epson printers.
>
>
> I meant that in connection with the OP's: "Plus as I understand it, the
> R200 uses DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800", which I took to refer to
> the OEM inks. That's why I used the phrase 'Epson inks', rather than 'inks
> for Epson printers'.
>
> Jon.

I was not suggesting you were incorrect in your statement, in fact,
quite the opposite, but I did want to make others aware than some
hybrids already do exist for the Epson printer line, as 3rd party products.

Art
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 4:57:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I have very few hairs left to split anyway, so you may claim the award
if you so desire ;-)

Art

Jon O'Brien wrote:

> In article <B3jtd.326985$9b.260268@edtnps84>, artistic@telus.net (Arthur
> Entlich) wrote:
>
>
>>...any Epson printer designed around pigmented inks.
>
>
> Oh, bad luck! You just forfeited that hair-splitting award. :-)
>
> Jon.
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 7:49:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <OJDtd.4346$U47.746@clgrps12>, artistic@telus.net (Arthur
Entlich) wrote:

> I was not suggesting you were incorrect in your statement, in fact,
> quite the opposite, but I did want to make others aware than some
> hybrids already do exist for the Epson printer line, as 3rd party
> products.

Fairynuff.

Jon.
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 7:49:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <iLDtd.4365$U47.1261@clgrps12>, artistic@telus.net (Arthur
Entlich) wrote:

> I have very few hairs left to split anyway, so you may claim the award
> if you so desire ;-)

I've got loads but would rather it doesn't split, so I guess we'll leave
it on the shelf. :-)

Jon.
December 11, 2004 12:39:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Great information. Thanks.

Are the pigmented inks worth "upgrading" to from dye inks? in other words,
is it worth it?


"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:mXitd.326981$9b.306770@edtnps84...
> One of the main features of piezo head design is how forgiving they are
> with ink formulations.
>
> Thermal heads require the ink boils at a certain temperature and
> maintains a certain viscosity during the printing process.
>
> Piezo technology is more forgiving because the ink is mechanically
> propelled without heating, and the ink nozzles can be considerably
> larger then the ink droplet, using the frequency the piezo element is
> activated to determine how much ink is released.
>
> Although I don't suggest trying to run ketchup and mustard through them,
> as long as the ink is within certain tolerances and of a small enough
> particle size, it may well work. Piezo heads are being used for
> everything from dye sublimation inks, to solvent inks, to oil based
> inks, to conductive inks, to plastics, to food dyes, etc, etc.
>
> So, as to your question, yes, there are dozens of 3rd party ink
> formulations that work with Epson printers. SOme work better than
> others. Pigmented inks are more abrasive than dye inks, because
> pigmented inks are made up of actual particles of colorant kept in
> suspension in the carrier agent. Dyes are molecular and are literally
> dissolved into the carrier. Over time, therefore, pigmented inks do
> wear the heads more than dye inks. For the average piezo inkhead
> printer, it is not too significant an issue.
>
> Although I have not looked around, I suspect there are both pigmented
> inks being should 3rd party for the R200, and CISs. My only concern is
> the CIS is usually costly enough to make it worthwhile to consider if
> buying a more robust printer may be worthwhile with a costly investment
> of a CIS and bulk inks. It is not that the R200 will product poor
> prints, because it doesn't, but it is designed as an economy printer,
> and it's cost reflects that. Most people using a CIS print great sums
> of prints in a short period and a printer with a higher duty cycle may
> be more reliable.
>
> Art
>
> Art
>
>
> Te wrote:
>
> > I'm new the EPSON... I've been a looong time HP user. I recently got an
> > Epson R200 because I wanted to print onto DVDRs. I'm in the market for
a
> > continuous ink system for my R200 now... and one of the questions I had
was
> > can I use Pigmented inks in a CIS or by refilling the carts with
Pigmented
> > inks?
> >
> > As I understand it, pigmented inks give you better quality prints, truer
> > colors and are much longer lasting. Plus as I understand it, the R200
uses
> > DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800. The epson rep told me the heads
in
> > the R800 and R200/R300 (et al) are all the same print head? So that
sounds
> > to me like I can use pigmented inks... But I know the experts here will
> > chime in :) 
> >
> > THANKS IN ADVANCE.
> >
> >
>
Anonymous
December 11, 2004 5:06:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <Wezud.639953$mD.93733@attbi_s02>, te@-NOSPAM-pobox.com (Te)
wrote:

> Are the pigmented inks worth "upgrading" to from dye inks?

No, as the dye component of the ink will fade/run in the same way as in a
pure dye ink. It's definitely worth considering pigment inks, though.

Jon.
Anonymous
December 12, 2004 6:12:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Now, really, how can I answer that? It depends on what your needs are.

The principal advantage to pigment inks is they do not fade as rapidly
(they do fade, but usually take much longer) and they tend to be
waterproof even on plain paper. They are more dense (opaque) and they
cost more. They will tend to clog more easily.

Each pigment ink formula will have differing characteristics and fade
resistance, just like dye inks.

Art

Te wrote:

> Great information. Thanks.
>
> Are the pigmented inks worth "upgrading" to from dye inks? in other words,
> is it worth it?
>
>
> "Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:mXitd.326981$9b.306770@edtnps84...
>
>>One of the main features of piezo head design is how forgiving they are
>>with ink formulations.
>>
>>Thermal heads require the ink boils at a certain temperature and
>>maintains a certain viscosity during the printing process.
>>
>>Piezo technology is more forgiving because the ink is mechanically
>>propelled without heating, and the ink nozzles can be considerably
>>larger then the ink droplet, using the frequency the piezo element is
>>activated to determine how much ink is released.
>>
>>Although I don't suggest trying to run ketchup and mustard through them,
>>as long as the ink is within certain tolerances and of a small enough
>>particle size, it may well work. Piezo heads are being used for
>>everything from dye sublimation inks, to solvent inks, to oil based
>>inks, to conductive inks, to plastics, to food dyes, etc, etc.
>>
>>So, as to your question, yes, there are dozens of 3rd party ink
>>formulations that work with Epson printers. SOme work better than
>>others. Pigmented inks are more abrasive than dye inks, because
>>pigmented inks are made up of actual particles of colorant kept in
>>suspension in the carrier agent. Dyes are molecular and are literally
>>dissolved into the carrier. Over time, therefore, pigmented inks do
>>wear the heads more than dye inks. For the average piezo inkhead
>>printer, it is not too significant an issue.
>>
>>Although I have not looked around, I suspect there are both pigmented
>>inks being should 3rd party for the R200, and CISs. My only concern is
>>the CIS is usually costly enough to make it worthwhile to consider if
>>buying a more robust printer may be worthwhile with a costly investment
>>of a CIS and bulk inks. It is not that the R200 will product poor
>>prints, because it doesn't, but it is designed as an economy printer,
>>and it's cost reflects that. Most people using a CIS print great sums
>>of prints in a short period and a printer with a higher duty cycle may
>>be more reliable.
>>
>>Art
>>
>>Art
>>
>>
>>Te wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm new the EPSON... I've been a looong time HP user. I recently got an
>>>Epson R200 because I wanted to print onto DVDRs. I'm in the market for
>
> a
>
>>>continuous ink system for my R200 now... and one of the questions I had
>
> was
>
>>>can I use Pigmented inks in a CIS or by refilling the carts with
>
> Pigmented
>
>>>inks?
>>>
>>>As I understand it, pigmented inks give you better quality prints, truer
>>>colors and are much longer lasting. Plus as I understand it, the R200
>
> uses
>
>>>DYE inks not Pigmented like the R800. The epson rep told me the heads
>
> in
>
>>>the R800 and R200/R300 (et al) are all the same print head? So that
>
> sounds
>
>>>to me like I can use pigmented inks... But I know the experts here will
>>>chime in :) 
>>>
>>>THANKS IN ADVANCE.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
December 12, 2004 6:34:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Oh Jon, stop confusing people unnecessarily because you have a thing
about wordsmithing.

Dye inks: use chemicals which dissolve the colorant into the base, color
is molecular in size

Pigment: particles are solid material and suspended in a base, in theory
could settle out over time, as they are not dissolved, particles are
orders of magnitude larger than the dyes

Pigmented: Usually a mixture of dye and pigment in a base. Sometimes
the dye saturates the pigment and dyes it as well.

Epson manufactures either dye or pigment inks. There are third party
inks that are "pigmented" for Epson printers. Most are not.

Pigmented inks can be very stable in terms of fading, and whether a dye
runs usually has a lot more to do with the mordants within the paper
than the ink itself. Most standard papers do not contain mordants.
Most inkjet papers (other than bond papers) do.

Art

Jon O'Brien wrote:

> In article <Wezud.639953$mD.93733@attbi_s02>, te@-NOSPAM-pobox.com (Te)
> wrote:
>
>
>>Are the pigmented inks worth "upgrading" to from dye inks?
>
>
> No, as the dye component of the ink will fade/run in the same way as in a
> pure dye ink. It's definitely worth considering pigment inks, though.
>
> Jon.
Anonymous
December 12, 2004 7:26:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <uyZud.62233$6f6.24353@edtnps89>, artistic@telus.net (Arthur
Entlich) wrote:

> Oh Jon, stop confusing people unnecessarily because you have a thing
> about wordsmithing.

The confusion already exists, I'm trying to prevent it causing any future
problems by removing it. If someone wants pigment inks but asks for
pigmented inks, they may not get what they want. If they ask for pigment
inks, they will get want they want.

Using terms which have an explicit meaning in a vague way is what confuses
people.

Jon.
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 7:26:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Fair enough. You are correct that pigment ink and pigmented inks are
not interchangeable words. They do refer to differing types of ink
formulations. We should all be more careful when discussing inks to use
correct terminology.

So, is ketchup a dye, pigment or pigmented formulation? ;-)

Art

Jon O'Brien wrote:

> In article <uyZud.62233$6f6.24353@edtnps89>, artistic@telus.net (Arthur
> Entlich) wrote:
>
>
>>Oh Jon, stop confusing people unnecessarily because you have a thing
>>about wordsmithing.
>
>
> The confusion already exists, I'm trying to prevent it causing any future
> problems by removing it. If someone wants pigment inks but asks for
> pigmented inks, they may not get what they want. If they ask for pigment
> inks, they will get want they want.
>
> Using terms which have an explicit meaning in a vague way is what confuses
> people.
>
> Jon.
Anonymous
December 13, 2004 8:51:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <7pjvd.69705$6f6.39594@edtnps89>, artistic@telus.net (Arthur
Entlich) wrote:

> So, is ketchup a dye, pigment or pigmented formulation? ;-)

My personal opinion is that it's a sugary abomination. Further than that,
I have no interest in its classification. :-)

Jon.
December 13, 2004 9:01:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

The correct general terms are solvent base and aqueous base inks.

The common substitute terms are dye ink and pigment ink.

Solvent base inks use something other than water as the primary solvent.

Aqueous base inks use water as the primary solvent with a small amount of
some type alcohol (butyl, isopropyl, or ethyl) as a co-solvent.

The correct phrasing for describing the type of colorant is Dye colorant and
Pigment colorant.

HP, Lexmark, and Canon use a Carbon Pigment colorant in an aqueous base.

Pigment colorants are not soluble in water. They are suspended using static
charge
generated directly by the pigment or by a coating or encapsulating material
which
surround the pigment and maintains suspension.

Epson utilizes several formulations of black and color pigment colorants in
an aqueous base,
to create their line of Durabrite and UltraChrome Inks. UltraChrome and
Durabrite inks are
Pigment colorant in aqueous base with a encapsulating resin which smooths
the pigment surface
and lenses the colorant.

What is commonly referred to as Dye base in is actual a Dye colorant in an
aqueous base

There does exist ink sets that are either Pigment or Dye colorant in a
solvent base (usually a pure alcohol
solvent). Other substances such as tolune and xylene can also be used as a
solvent.

Dye colorants are typically found in either a crystalline form or liquid
concentrate. They may also
contain biocide additives to curtail the growth of bacteria, virii, fungi,
and algae.

Pigment colorant is usually ground from solid material or chemically formed
by mixture of
base components.

Hybrids - Inks contain both pigment and dye colorant are commonly found in
gray scale inks (commonly called "tone" inks).
A black pigment water soluble ink is tinctured with dye colorant to produce
various "tones" of black and gray. Hybridization
can be done with color pigments, but this is less common.

Pigment colorant inkjet inks work most efficiently in open chamber
cartridges (sponge-free).

Dye sublimation ink is a specialized pigment colorant in an aqueous
solution.

--
WeInk.com Technical Support
------------------------------------------------------
Toll Free Support: 1-888-825-0759
Toll Free Orders: 1-800-559-3465
http://www.weink.com/
Subscribe to our newsletter and
get up to 30% off your order.
------------------------------------------------------
"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:7pjvd.69705$6f6.39594@edtnps89...
> Fair enough. You are correct that pigment ink and pigmented inks are not
> interchangeable words. They do refer to differing types of ink
> formulations. We should all be more careful when discussing inks to use
> correct terminology.
>
> So, is ketchup a dye, pigment or pigmented formulation? ;-)
>
> Art
>
> Jon O'Brien wrote:
>
>> In article <uyZud.62233$6f6.24353@edtnps89>, artistic@telus.net (Arthur
>> Entlich) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Oh Jon, stop confusing people unnecessarily because you have a thing
>>>about wordsmithing.
>>
>>
>> The confusion already exists, I'm trying to prevent it causing any future
>> problems by removing it. If someone wants pigment inks but asks for
>> pigmented inks, they may not get what they want. If they ask for pigment
>> inks, they will get want they want.
>>
>> Using terms which have an explicit meaning in a vague way is what
>> confuses people.
>>
>> Jon.
>
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 4:14:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <cOkvd.255348$R05.235065@attbi_s53>, devnull@weink.com (T_S)
wrote:

> A whole lot about ink types and formulations :-)

Nice summation. Thanks.

Jon.
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 9:16:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:01:44 GMT, RE: Re: Can you use PIGMENTED inks
in a R200 by either refilling or continuous "T_S" <devnull@weink.com>
wrote:

>The correct general terms are solvent base and aqueous base inks.

Hey, thanks for the primer!

--
To reply to me directly, remove the XXX characters from my email address.
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 5:01:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Thank you for the lesson in ink formulation and terminology. It is
unfortunate that there is no quick and dirty but accurate way to
describe these differing ink formulations. It could get tedious to type
"pigment colorant in an aqueous base" every time, although I understand
it is descriptively accurate. I suppose the word "base" should be
dropped in our references to inkjet inks, since most standard consumer
inkjet printers use an aqueous, or principally water base. So, it
appears perhaps the best quick reference would be to speak of "pigment
inks", "dye inks", and "hybrid inks", acknowledging that in most cases
these would all be in an aqueous base for the kind of purposes we have
in mind.

Art

T_S wrote:

> The correct general terms are solvent base and aqueous base inks.
>
> The common substitute terms are dye ink and pigment ink.
>
> Solvent base inks use something other than water as the primary solvent.
>
> Aqueous base inks use water as the primary solvent with a small amount of
> some type alcohol (butyl, isopropyl, or ethyl) as a co-solvent.
>
> The correct phrasing for describing the type of colorant is Dye colorant and
> Pigment colorant.
>
> HP, Lexmark, and Canon use a Carbon Pigment colorant in an aqueous base.
>
> Pigment colorants are not soluble in water. They are suspended using static
> charge
> generated directly by the pigment or by a coating or encapsulating material
> which
> surround the pigment and maintains suspension.
>
> Epson utilizes several formulations of black and color pigment colorants in
> an aqueous base,
> to create their line of Durabrite and UltraChrome Inks. UltraChrome and
> Durabrite inks are
> Pigment colorant in aqueous base with a encapsulating resin which smooths
> the pigment surface
> and lenses the colorant.
>
> What is commonly referred to as Dye base in is actual a Dye colorant in an
> aqueous base
>
> There does exist ink sets that are either Pigment or Dye colorant in a
> solvent base (usually a pure alcohol
> solvent). Other substances such as tolune and xylene can also be used as a
> solvent.
>
> Dye colorants are typically found in either a crystalline form or liquid
> concentrate. They may also
> contain biocide additives to curtail the growth of bacteria, virii, fungi,
> and algae.
>
> Pigment colorant is usually ground from solid material or chemically formed
> by mixture of
> base components.
>
> Hybrids - Inks contain both pigment and dye colorant are commonly found in
> gray scale inks (commonly called "tone" inks).
> A black pigment water soluble ink is tinctured with dye colorant to produce
> various "tones" of black and gray. Hybridization
> can be done with color pigments, but this is less common.
>
> Pigment colorant inkjet inks work most efficiently in open chamber
> cartridges (sponge-free).
>
> Dye sublimation ink is a specialized pigment colorant in an aqueous
> solution.
>
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 2:51:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

R200/R300 and R800 are all pigment base, which means you need to
"protect" your print head carefully.

Pigmented inks does not give you the "better" quality, but "Epson's
Durabrite" does - it is pigment ink too, but not as regular pigment.

If you want to switch between dye and pigment ink by using CIS,
here is a very good company providing CIS kit which allows you to print
with pigment and dye ink.
http://www.InkRepublic.com

Their system does great job.

Thank you,
December 16, 2004 10:52:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

The R200/R300 do not use pigment inks.

--
WeInk.com Technical Support
------------------------------------------------------
Toll Free Support: 1-888-825-0759
Toll Free Orders: 1-800-559-3465
http://www.weink.com/
Subscribe to our newsletter and
get up to 30% off your order.
------------------------------------------------------
<trendyinc@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1103226703.630092.302350@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> R200/R300 and R800 are all pigment base, which means you need to
> "protect" your print head carefully.
>
> Pigmented inks does not give you the "better" quality, but "Epson's
> Durabrite" does - it is pigment ink too, but not as regular pigment.
>
> If you want to switch between dye and pigment ink by using CIS,
> here is a very good company providing CIS kit which allows you to print
> with pigment and dye ink.
> http://www.InkRepublic.com
>
> Their system does great job.
>
> Thank you,
>
Anonymous
December 17, 2004 12:14:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On 16 Dec 2004 11:51:43 -0800, trendyinc@hotmail.com wrote:

>R200/R300 and R800 are all pigment base, which means you need to
>"protect" your print head carefully.
>
>Pigmented inks does not give you the "better" quality, but "Epson's
>Durabrite" does - it is pigment ink too, but not as regular pigment.
>
>If you want to switch between dye and pigment ink by using CIS,
>here is a very good company providing CIS kit which allows you to print
>with pigment and dye ink.
>http://www.InkRepublic.com
>
>Their system does great job.
>
>Thank you,


The EPSON R200 & R300 both use Epson photo dye inks which are not
pigmented inks.

The EPSON R800, 2200, 4000, 7600 & 9600 all use UltraChrome ink which
is pigmented.

And the C80, C82, C84, C86, C64 & C66 use DuraBrite ink which is also
pigmented.
December 17, 2004 3:04:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>From what I understand, Epson R200, R300, R320, R300M, RX500, RX600,
R800 are all "pigment" nozzle, which mean they are all pigment ready.
(There are pro and con for it, but that's besides the point.)

But that does not mean they "must" use pigment ink.

R200, R300 are using dye ink, they can use pigment too.
R800, 2200 ..etc are UltraChrome, pigment ink, of course they can use
dye too. But that may defeat the purpose of using such a great printer
- R800.

C80, C82, C84, C86, C64 & C66 use DuraBrite ink, again pigment too.

If you would like to use pigment ink with your R200, you "MUST" use
some sort of "Spongeless" bulk ink system for sure.

Pigment ink can easily get clogged hence if your pigment ink sit in
your sponged cartridge longer than some period of time - lets say 5
months, your cartridge is no longer suitable for printing ,and it can
easily clog your nozzle.

I quickly review InkRepublic.com's spongeless cis, it makes sense if
you would like to use pigment ink and their cis along with your R200.





Tom Corbin wrote:
> On 16 Dec 2004 11:51:43 -0800, trendyinc@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >R200/R300 and R800 are all pigment base, which means you need to
> >"protect" your print head carefully.
> >
> >Pigmented inks does not give you the "better" quality, but "Epson's
> >Durabrite" does - it is pigment ink too, but not as regular pigment.
> >
> >If you want to switch between dye and pigment ink by using CIS,
> >here is a very good company providing CIS kit which allows you to
print
> >with pigment and dye ink.
> >http://www.InkRepublic.com
> >
> >Their system does great job.
> >
> >Thank you,
>
>
> The EPSON R200 & R300 both use Epson photo dye inks which are not
> pigmented inks.
>
> The EPSON R800, 2200, 4000, 7600 & 9600 all use UltraChrome ink which
> is pigmented.
>
> And the C80, C82, C84, C86, C64 & C66 use DuraBrite ink which is also
> pigmented.
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 4:00:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I have no association with Ink Republic, and I honestly don't know if
their CIS is better than others, in price, design, or customer service,
but I have been noticing an odd set of coincidences or late.

In this newsgroup, several Photoshop groups, the Epson list and others,
there has been a very sudden rash of unusually positive comments about
this company's product line, and the postings all have several
similarities in their grammatical structure, and the errors within them.

In other words, I think I smell a rat, and maybe several.

So, I am asking you outright, "trendyinc" what is your association with
InkRepublic? Family? Business relation? Know the people involved
personally?

All the "people" (and the email addresses are mostly different) who have
suddenly been posting about InkRepublic's products seem to make similar
factual errors, as an example, the R200 and R300 printers are stated as
using pigment inks. Well, they do not. They use dye colorants.
Durabrite is a pigment colorant ink, as is the Ultrachrome ink set, and
it is used in a number of Epson printers (numerous C and CX series, the
2000P, 2100/2200 the R800). Most Epson printers are/were use dye
colorant inks.

I certainly don't mind when an individual gives a legitimate testimony,
or suggests a product line, as I think the exchange of this type of
information can be helpful. However, I don't like being deceived, or
being taken for a dupe. Although I do not have any evidence, other than
intuition, to base my feelings on (yet), I suggest unless a person can
prove to their satisfaction otherwise, that much, if not all of the
recent commentary regarding InkRepublic's inks and CIS products are
coming from questionable sources, and I further suggest people not base
their decisions on this information.

I have no personal stake in ANY ink, CIS, printer or other system,
personal or financial. I just sense there may be something going on
here that is not fully above board.

If someone can show otherwise, please correct me.

Art


trendyinc@hotmail.com wrote:

> R200/R300 and R800 are all pigment base, which means you need to
> "protect" your print head carefully.
>
> Pigmented inks does not give you the "better" quality, but "Epson's
> Durabrite" does - it is pigment ink too, but not as regular pigment.
>
> If you want to switch between dye and pigment ink by using CIS,
> here is a very good company providing CIS kit which allows you to print
> with pigment and dye ink.
> http://www.InkRepublic.com
>
> Their system does great job.
>
> Thank you,
>
Anonymous
December 18, 2004 4:00:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
news:vRVwd.8098$dv1.7787@edtnps89...
>I have no association with Ink Republic, and I honestly don't know if their
>CIS is better than others, in price, design, or customer service, but I have
>been noticing an odd set of coincidences or late.
>
> In this newsgroup, several Photoshop groups, the Epson list and others, there
> has been a very sudden rash of unusually positive comments about this
> company's product line, and the postings all have several similarities in
> their grammatical structure, and the errors within them.
>
> In other words, I think I smell a rat, and maybe several.

I agree with you Art. There are now about three or four folks with very
similar style, all posting through google with yahoo or google emails and
hawking this company. It sure looks like a fraud to me.

Regards,
Bob Headrick
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 12:07:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:01:44 GMT, "T_S" <devnull@weink.com> wrote:

>The correct general terms are solvent base and aqueous base inks.
>
>The common substitute terms are dye ink and pigment ink.
> snip

But what I'm wondering is how I can get a window sticker for my car
to not fade. The black is especially bad about fading to an ugly
brown in only a few weeks.

Do they make a ultraviolet protection spray that would stop the
fading?

PJ
Anonymous
December 19, 2004 7:17:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <a66bs057hjelok9kjsen4emkdukjeqda0a@4ax.com>, dingo@privacy.com
(PJX) wrote:

> ...how I can get a window sticker for my car to not fade.
>
> Do they make a ultraviolet protection spray that would stop the fading?

Even with a UV coating, I doubt that any desktop printer inks would
survive for very long on a window sticker. You'd need to use a printer
that can take solvent-based inks. They tend to be quite large (the
smallest I've seen being about the size of Epson's largest printer),
expensive and have to have an internal or external filtering/ventilation
system to handle the fumes from the ink.

Jon.
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 10:37:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Well, I won't go that far. It may be a great product (or not) but the
reviews and promotion appear to be coming from either one person using
different emails, or a group of people with similar intent, and not just
on this group, but on several.

I certainly don't mind, in fact, I like it, when people unassociated
with a company give their honest review of a new product they have used.
But when it begins to look like an advertising campaign with "plants",
then I begin to wonder about the company.

After all, good products flourish by word of mouth by legitimate users
of a product. I just want people to be aware that, since I frequent a
number of printer lists, I have begun to notice this pattern that my
intuition says "something doesn't add up here". At least then they can
seek out other sources for reviews, and perhaps protect themselves from
what may be illegitimate reviews.

Art


Bob Headrick wrote:

> "Arthur Entlich" <artistic@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:vRVwd.8098$dv1.7787@edtnps89...
>
>>I have no association with Ink Republic, and I honestly don't know if their
>>CIS is better than others, in price, design, or customer service, but I have
>>been noticing an odd set of coincidences or late.
>>
>>In this newsgroup, several Photoshop groups, the Epson list and others, there
>>has been a very sudden rash of unusually positive comments about this
>>company's product line, and the postings all have several similarities in
>>their grammatical structure, and the errors within them.
>>
>>In other words, I think I smell a rat, and maybe several.
>
>
> I agree with you Art. There are now about three or four folks with very
> similar style, all posting through google with yahoo or google emails and
> hawking this company. It sure looks like a fraud to me.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Headrick
>
>
Anonymous
December 20, 2004 11:01:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

and no sign of them coming back to make comments on this either.

Chris
Anonymous
December 23, 2004 1:51:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Dear Sir/Madam,

We are sorry for thsese spam. We have no control with our 3rd party
marketing companies. But already told them to stop this adv.

Again, we apologize for this mess. You all have great holidays.
InkRepublic.com
http://www.InkRepublic.com
info@InkRepublic.com
Anonymous
December 25, 2004 10:24:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I want to make a comment about this issue, since I was in part
responsible for making Ink Republic aware of this problem.

Ink Republic contacted me privately recently in an attempt to be helpful
regarding a request I put out on another list. It had nothing to do
with either 3rd party inks nor CISs.

As a result of that opportunity, I informed them of the amount of
Trolling that was going on on behalf of their company and products in
several of the printing and imaging groups.

They were very fast to respond and expressed some concern, because they
informed me they had received several recent comment from some of the
people visiting their website that those people had been lead their from
postings on several newsgroups and lists. Some of the comments were
apparently positive (about their product, etc) and some were negative
(about the nature of the advertising disguised as mini-reviews, etc.)

I wrote them suggesting that IMHO, this was not helpful to their cause
and they should stop using this type of advertising.

Ink Republic indicated to me that they are mainly a wholesaler, although
they are beginning to consider direct sales, but upon checking into my
comments, they were quite surprised and disappointed at the amount of
this trolling which was going on, and that they had not sanctioned it,
and it was from 3rd party agents that sell their products, and they have
since asked them to please stop doing so.

Ink Republic appears to seriously want to do the right thing, and it
would appear they have been able to somewhat rein in the people involved.

I obviously have no affiliation with the company, and can only state
that the CIS design looks like a progressive step in the right
direction, in that they use ink dampers rather than a converted
cartridge which eliminates the sponge or batting, makes the full ink
supply system visible (the dampers I believe (if the pictures are
showing the production model, clear). Basically, the design is similar
to what Epson themselves use in their large cartridge/carriage printers,
and those tend to work well.

As I have mentioned in other groups, the other side of the CIS issue is
using a collapsible ink sack which works like an IV bag. This
eliminates almost all air to ink contact, and also allows for very even
ink flow. The first company that starts selling their inks in this
fashion, especially for pigment inks, will be truly giving Epson a run
for their money. Some 3rd party large format cartridges are already
designed this way, and could easily be used.

Anyway, I just wanted to explain that it would appear Ink Republic is
trying to do the right thing here, and that as soon as they were made
aware of the problem, they acted upon it as best they could.

I will wait to here more reports about the product itself, hopefully
from some legitimate users.


Art


InkRepublic.com wrote:

> Dear Sir/Madam,
>
> We are sorry for thsese spam. We have no control with our 3rd party
> marketing companies. But already told them to stop this adv.
>
> Again, we apologize for this mess. You all have great holidays.
> InkRepublic.com
> http://www.InkRepublic.com
> info@InkRepublic.com
>
!