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CPU Buyers' Guide updated (+ Discussion about the sticky)

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February 16, 2006 10:28:32 PM

I had to change many things in a single update and also had to deal with formatting issues caused by forum upgrade. So there may be quite a few errors. Please help me to correct the errors.

Somebody wrote a dual core faq a couple of months ago. I have to integrate it with the guide, and it really needs reformatting. If steve listened to my request for complete HTML support...... :( 


Re: THGC CPU Buyers' Guide (17/Feb/2006)
February 16, 2006 11:21:26 PM

Great, only noticed one thing.

To the right of most of the dual core CPUs, you have the words "dual core" in red letters.
You forgot to do that with the FX-60.
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February 16, 2006 11:25:55 PM

Great job Silver!
February 16, 2006 11:42:06 PM

OK, it's 8:30 p.m. where I am and I'm stuck in the office waiting on the server to backup so I can go home. Since I don't feel like doing real work this late at night, I took a few minutes to proofread the sticky again.
This list is mostly spelling errors and some of its a little bit picky and minor, but here goes:

Under the heading:
2.1.6 Professional level Audio/Video editing & encoding
the last sentence: "but Athlon 64s are comeptitive as well."
competitive is misspelled

Under:
3.1.1 Pentium 4 (Prescott) "A" (described in 2.0.5)
"brandname" should properly be two words (brand name)

Under:
3.1.2 Pentium Extreme Edition (described in 2.0.9)
replace "is" with "its" in the following phrase:
"but by no means good enough to justify is extreme price."

under:
3.1.3 Athlon 64 FX series (described in 2.0.12 and 2.0.13)
"pricetag' should be two words, and "price tags" is probably better.

under:
3.4.3 Athlon64 X2 (Manchester, Toledo)
"nowdays" should be spelled with an "A": "nowadays"

under:
3.5.1 AMD's Socket AM2 and upgrade dielma
last word in that title should be "dilemma"

Also, I'm not technically proficient enough to challenge this statement, but maybe the following (also under 3.5.1) should be rephrased:
"AMD is not supposed to release faster socket 939 CPUs in future, which makes Athlon 64 FX60 the fastest CPU for current socket 939 platform."

Technically, isn't the FX-57 the fastest CPU? At 2.8 ghz it's the fastest single core processor to be released for Socket 939.
FX-60 is the fastest dual core Socket 939 CPU, and in some applications (especially those optimized for multple threads), it is indeed faster than the FX-57 -- but the FX-57 is still faster at games and certain applications, right?
February 16, 2006 11:46:16 PM

Also, the FX-60 is AMD poorest overclocker, and at $1050.
The Intel 955 at same price keeps pace with it, besting it in areas. Also, the 955 has a 800+MHz overclock potential on air, making it faster than the FX60 in all areas, even when overclocked, which, IMO, makes it the best choice for pure performance on the high end. Altho, I would never spend a grand for a cpu when I can satify most computing needs with a $400 Opteron 170
February 17, 2006 2:59:42 AM

You put in a lot of work, spitfire. Great job. Thankyou very much.
February 20, 2006 6:27:33 AM

Quote:
2.0.19 Sempron 64 (Palermo)

Also known as: Sempron, 64 bit Sempron, Socket 754 Sempron
PR Rating: 2500+ (2.4 GHz), 2600+ (1.6 GHz), 2800+ (1.6 GHz), 3000+ (1.8 GHz), 3100+ (1.8 GHz), 3300+ (2.0 GHz), 3400+ (2.0 GHz)


Compare the two bolded parts.
February 20, 2006 6:45:16 AM

OH OH TYPo.
The 2500 actually runs @ 1.4. Good catch. Spitfire will correct that soon.
February 20, 2006 8:32:39 AM

small thing, the 2.0.3 p4 6x0 processors have 2mb l2 cache, not 1mb.
also has em64t.
February 22, 2006 6:35:06 AM

Quote:
I had to change many things in a single update and also had to deal with formatting issues caused by forum upgrade. So there may be quite a few errors. Please help me to correct the errors.

Somebody wrote a dual core faq a couple of months ago. I have to integrate it with the guide, and it really needs reformatting. If steve listened to my request for complete HTML support...... :( 


Re: THGC CPU Buyers' Guide (17/Feb/2006)


There are some errors in your posting:

Quote:
2.0.14 Athlon 64 X2 (Toledo) [DUAL CORE]

Also known as: A64
PR Rating: 4400+ (2.2 GHz), 4800+ (2.4 GHz)
Platform: Socket 939
Manufacturing process: 0.09µ SOI
FSB: 1 GHz HT link, on-die dual channel DDR400 memory controller
Cache (per core): 64k L1 instruction cache, 64k L1 data cache, 1 MB L2 cache
CPU Extensions: MMX, 3D Now!, 3D Now! Extension, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, AMD64 (x86-64)


Toledo is also available in A64 X2 3800+ and higher ( 3800+ (2.0 GHz), 4200+ (2.2 GHz), 4600+ (2.2 GHz)) with L2 512 MB .
It happens I do have one.

http://images5.pictiger.com/images/ae/751a8f3e6ef0336b1...

http://server5.pictiger.com/img/70396/picture-hosting/f...

Notice WRONG reading by CPUZ version 1.31 and corrected in version 1.32

Quote:
3.1.3 Athlon 64 FX series (described in 2.0.12 and 2.0.13)

Usually Athlon 64 FX CPUs have been the best in terms of performance, but also carried ridiculous pricetag like Intel's Extreme Edition CPUs. While FX60 is the fastest dual core CPU and FX-57 is the fastest single core CPU, it makes no sense to pay $1000 for a CPU, when you can get practically equal performance from 2 times cheaper CPUs.


The athlon FX-51 when released cost 787.00 U$ so it was 'a liitle" less than 1,000 as quoted, and at that time there was no cheaper equivalent. The problem was however with required REGISTERED memory which was about 15 % more expensive.
Altough I do agree that with current price structure it is not wise investment.

I would also suggest to include the type of memory used by CPUs / MoBo as here the consumer is aware of upgredability limitations and options

Quote:
2.0.19 Sempron 64 (Palermo)

Also known as: Sempron, 64 bit Sempron, Socket 754 Sempron
PR Rating: 2500+ (2.4 GHz), 2600+ (1.6 GHz), 2800+ (1.6 GHz), 3000+ (1.8 GHz), 3100+ (1.8 GHz), 3300+ (2.0 GHz), 3400+ (2.0 GHz)
Platform: Socket 754
Manufacturing process: 0.09µ SOI
FSB: 800 MHz HT link, on-die DDR400 memory controller
Cache: 64k L1 instruction cache, 64k L1 data cache, 128k or 256k L2 cache (128 for 2600+, 3000+, 3300+; 256k for 2500+, 2800+, 3100+, 3400+)
CPU Extensions: MMX, 3D Now!, 3D Now! Extension, SSE, SSE2, SSE3, AMD64


Semprons are already manufactured for socket 939, but I do belive the distributrion channels are avoiding retail sales, and are limited for OEMs transactions.


There is also a confrontational controversy with Intel Dual Cores.

Intel slapped two CPUs on a pinframe, however they do not have any integration such as memory controler. They are called by Intel dual core to decisively match the AMDs nomenclature.

I would suggest call them somehow diferently i.e. Intel DUO to avoid any confussion, and suggestions that they are in deed integrated dual core.

To be a dual core CPU the cores MUST be integrated as it is done by AMD using memory controller.

Intel's unfair, misleading and deceptive marketing practices are well known.

Looking back when AMD released Athlon, Intel feearing competition and not having anything new in their barn to stay competitive with AMD released Pentium II with 66 Mhz bus renamed as Pentium III 450 MHz just to deceive the unsuspecting buyers.

So we must assure that same wouldn't happen to Dual Core and two cores slaped on a grid.

DUO in contrast to Dual Core would diferentiate the cores integration.

When company start using such deceptive business practices the knowleageable consumers should provide such information by all available means and openly moon such companies.
February 24, 2006 10:51:01 AM

All of the quoted errors have been corrected. And I've also added that Intel 955EE overclocks better than A64 FX.
February 24, 2006 10:58:51 AM

Well, 3800+ Toledo and Manchester are practically the same thing. 3800+ Toldeo is probably made only when they don't pass the quality test as 1 MB L2 cache Toledo.

S939 Semprons are not available for purchase, so it's not an option when you are buying a CPU.

Intel's dual core CPUs are effectively dual core, and the users won't notice the difference between "2 core in 1 die" dual core and "2 cores glued together" dual core in real world. So if I try to label Intel dual cores as something else, it will only increase confusion.
March 14, 2006 1:45:33 PM

just one minor issue:

Quote:
.1 CPUs to avoid

3.1.1 Pentium 4 (Prescott) "A" (described in 2.0.5)

There's hardly any reason to buy these CPUs unless you just want "Pentium" brand name. Sempron 64 and Celeron Ds offer very good performance at lower price and inexpensive Athlon 64s perform better but doesn't cost more.


the rest is great!
April 18, 2006 5:26:26 AM

Very handy, made my decision based on it, am v happy with results.
Thanks
April 21, 2006 12:19:42 AM

Nice guide, but one major error regarding the P dual cores L2 cache. One of the main differences between the 8xx series and the 9xx series is the 9xx have 2MB L2 cache per core (4MB) and the 8xx have 1MB L2 cache per core (2MB)
Great Job otherwise!!
May 19, 2006 7:21:54 AM

the guide is greate but i think we need an update!
May 19, 2006 11:41:34 AM

Quote:
the guide is greate but i think we need an update!


Such as ?
May 19, 2006 2:21:30 PM

Quote:
the guide is greate but i think we need an update!


Such as ?

well... i meant in near future :D 
May 19, 2006 2:38:33 PM

Quote:
the guide is greate but i think we need an update!

Such as ?
well... i meant in near future :D 

Spitfire will most likely update his guide sometime after the AM2 release, whenever he'll get the time and feel like doing it.

In the meantime, refrain from posting on this thread unless you can make a contribution or a correction to the guide.
May 19, 2006 3:04:09 PM

Quote:
the guide is greate but i think we need an update!

Such as ?
well... i meant in near future :D 

Spitfire will most likely update his guide sometime after the AM2 release, whenever he'll get the time and feel like doing it.

In the meantime, refrain from posting on this thread unless you can make a contribution or a correction to the guide. Me too i love reading his threads.
June 2, 2006 10:06:10 AM

And what about Pentium Northwoods? These are a nice alternative to the Prescotts, cooler, less power-consuming and with more O/C potential.
July 15, 2006 12:09:18 AM

You suggested only AMD processors.Don't you think Intel has atleast one
better CPU?
September 12, 2006 5:36:21 PM

Your CPU Buyers' Guide is sweet, but it lacks a chess section! ;) 

Something like:

3.3.4 Chess programs

Preferred CPU:- ?
Value option:- ?
High End option:- ?
Comments: ?

Things I suspect, but would be nice to know:
-fast CPU (Chess Processing Unit, doh!). Multicore CPUs: It's up to the program to use it, I assume. If the program does, then multicore CPUs would be a great benefit, almost multiplying the performance with the number of cores?
-Chess programs goes through alot of nodes / second, but can this be too much for the lower CPU cache sizes available?
-I assume motherboard memory size and performance is irrelevant(?)


So much I can assume. Would be nice to have some professionals to find it out for me :) 
!