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Need Help 'Build new Server'

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February 17, 2006 1:14:27 AM

Hi all

my customer wants to build a new server for the small bussiness, but his budget is not over than $2500

so I'm offering him these specs :

2x Intel Xeon 3.0G 1M 800MHZ
2x 512MB
4x 200G SATA HDD Configured RAID 0
SLIM CD
FDD
2U Rackmount Chassis
460 or Higher PSU

he agreed as long as the price match with his budget.
I've found the webstore who offer a great deal for the specs

http://www.serversdirect.com/configure?product=103030
and
http://www.jerichorack.com/index.php?productID=164

can anybody give me a solution which one is better value, or just go to another store.

note :
just wannna share... a few weeks ago, I'have been purchase a 4U Chassis from jerichorack.com on their hotdeal, I have been configured the chassis for file server & print server at my office, so far the peripheral is compatible for their Chassis, but the chassis is ONLY availiable for just ONE HDD, but it's OK because my office only used it for sharing file,printing,ETC

More about : build server

February 17, 2006 2:16:07 AM

A few thoughts for you:

1. What is this server going to do? DS, e-mail, Web, FTP, Files, DB, CRM, ERP, bridgehead? That's the first thing that should be known before making any sort of judgement call.

2. If this is a server for a small business, it is NOT a good idea to use a massive RAID 0 array for the business' server. RAID 5, sure, and then you still get reasonable performance compared to a RAID 0.

3. Either of the 2 configurations you suggest are over $2500, and that doesn't include an OS (if using MS).

4. As for base config, my thoughts would be to use the following:

Chenbro SR-10769
SATA-II Hotswap Cage
Good 450W+ PSU (Must be EPS12V)
ASUS K8N-DL (4x SATA-II, 4x SATA)
2x Opteron 244 / 246
2x 1GB DDR 400 ECC Reg
DVD Burner (Good, not "cheap")
Floppy
February 17, 2006 2:27:08 AM

I completely agree with AngelDeath. Raid 0 is nothing. You get NO redundancy. Raid 5 is the way to go. Get 3 160 gig drives and you will have a great setup.

I highly advise against the Slim CD. I have one in my server right now, and I hate it. I've had to replace it twice, and am fed up with it failing on me. Plus it's hard to find replacements.

If you source the individual parts yourself, you'll save a whack of cash rather than buying custom built from a retailer.

MAKE SURE YOU GET ECC RAM! This will ensure that all the data that the server handles is properly taken care of.
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February 17, 2006 2:57:26 AM

1. for DB server on his new Server MSSQL2000
2. I just read about different RAID Level,thanks for the solution to use RAID 5 level, so I will configure the system with RAID 5.
3. that not include the OS,
4. he have bad experience using AMD Processor with his PC, so the Server must be made in the Intel Base and 2U Rackmount



@purelithium

Twice.... OK I will email to him about this slim CD

if i have a lot of time, i will build the system my self but thanks for your suggestion

sure the memory must use the ECC RAM
February 17, 2006 3:56:01 AM

IF you you dont mind Used servers you may want to check out ebay.
My last customer needed an application server for his new accounting setup and to allow local remote users to connect. I priced a server with os for around 5k. this included the Redundant raid5 and dual Xeon proccesors with 2+ GB ram and Redundant PS. He did not want to spend alot of mony and 5k was a bit steep.

If your customer is willing to go with used servers, Ebay is the deal. I purchased over a year ago a dual Proccesor system with 2 GB Ram Redundant PS and Dual SCSI Drives with RAID for $350 plus $60 shipping. It was a 2U Poweredge and it currently runs my webserver and email with plenty of power to spare. The best thing is that it came with Window 2000 Advance server.

So if you dont mind doing the ebay thing then check it out. Of corse there is pros and cons to ebay. But if you know the game and you do your homework you can get setup with a good deal. Plus you can purchase warranty on used referb products via ebays warranty service https://portal.newcorp.com/ebay/ebay/jsp/EBAY-NewStep1.jsp

I have bought 2 servers so farr off of ebay and both have performed and ran well.

Hope this helps
February 17, 2006 4:01:27 AM

I'm going to respond out of order, so here goes:

4. Fair enough, but Intel server platforms do tend to be a bit more expensive.

2. Very good.

1,2. If this is for a DB server, I have an additional suggestion: run 2x 80GB drives for the OS in a RAID 1, then run 3-4 160-250GB drives for the DB in RAID 5. That way your not using any of the system access on the same drives as the database, and you have a complete mirror of the Operating System if a drive dies.

3. That was my point exactly, the price doesn't include an OS. a copy of Windows Server 2003 Standard w/ 5 CAL is currently approx. $950 US.
February 17, 2006 5:07:09 AM

<thinking>servers my weakpoint.ok from what i know you want a dual proc server get a opty 265 on any tyan dual socket mobo or the asus k8n-dl and get a some raptors in raid 5 and you also want a gig of ram get 2x1gb 1 gig for each proc (btw the only server i have expeirence with is a game server)
February 17, 2006 6:20:38 AM

Quote:

2x Intel Xeon 3.0G 1M 800MHZ
2x 512MB
4x 200G SATA HDD Configured RAID 0
SLIM CD
FDD
2U Rackmount Chassis
460 or Higher PSU

http://www.serversdirect.com/configure?product=103030
or (edited)
http://www.jerichorack.com/index.php?productID=164


You may want to consider 10,000 rpm HDDs, making sure each HDD has a large cache, and supported Native or Tagged Command Queuing. (NCQ/TCQ).

You'll likely want to offer 2 - 4 GB RAM if it will have a largish database hosted on it. (OS Disk Cache uses system RAM, much faster than hammering the HDDs all the time.

If you are seriously considering suggesting RAID-0 tell the customer to just go elsewhere, or contact www.Tyan.com directly.

Aim for the Intel Xeon 7030 or higher model. (2.80 GHz, large cache, dual-core per socket), with the money saved fix the base configs and provide us (on the forums) with some updated links to machines they can actually use ! (The above linked machines need considerable work on the spec, even on the paper spec).

The configuration links above are not good, they both only have 1 CPU which may cause PCI-X tunnels, etc not to be available (see mainboard documentation, to technical for a forum post to explain).

You haven't checked the onboard controllers support RAID-5/6, and if they do is it in software using a hidden service (ala: nForce Pro), or do they also provide a SAS/SATA or SCSI-320 controller.... if so how will it be used ?, you have no way to get drivers onto the system during OS installation.

How will they perform maintenence on the server w/o a CD-ROM / DVD-ROM drive to install the Operating System and run diagnostics from ?

How will they install RAID drivers with no Floppy Disk Drive ?

Do the HDDs being offered have 1 million hours MTBF (typical duty cycle), or are they just typical desktop HDD units that are likely to fail when under heavy load (long queues of requests, heaps of head seek operations, etc)., even with RAID-5/6 you don't want to go replacing the HDDs every 2nd month (for example).

Go back to the drawing board, read the mainboard manuals instead of getting someone else to do it for you.... although on that note if money is involved I would be happy to assist look for potential problems and 'solve' them... Ahead of time of course, so the customer need not be presented with, notices or encounter problems.

Update: http://www.intel.com/performance/server/xeon/platform.h... ; the website you appear to be ordering from to not clearly label, or even use the correct names, for the processors.... so you would need to confirm what you are actually getting.
February 17, 2006 3:04:43 PM

@TabrisDarkPeace
fo thanks for your reply & edited to


to all thanks for the input...

i will talk to my customer soon...




I'm sorry if my english not good :oops:  :D 
February 17, 2006 3:43:56 PM

Angel Death is right, you need 2 gig min for an sql server, and an sata cage will make life much easier. I'm planning a backup server for a client right now that will run a sql backend and this is what I got:

SUPERMICRO SuperServer 7044H-TR 4U Barebone Server-Rackmount Intel E7520 Dual mPGA604 ZIF Sockets Dual Intel Xeon 800MHz FSB - Retail

2x Intel Xeon EM64T 2.8 Irwindale 800MHz FSB Socket 604 Processor Model BX80546KG2800FA - Retail

4x Transcend 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 533 (PC2 4200) ECC Registered System Memory Model TS128MQR72V5J - Retail

2x Western Digital Raptor WD740GD 74GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM

4x Western Digital Caviar RE WD3200SD 320GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM

And since it's for a non-profit organization, I get w2k3 server for about $50 so the whole system is just 3k, get fewer hd's and less ram and you could hit $2500.

They've ok'ed this now I just need to order it!
February 17, 2006 3:56:43 PM

hey micheal do you know anything about gaming servers?
February 17, 2006 4:03:38 PM

I ran and Unreal and quake server once upon a time. Nothing lately, what do ya need?
February 17, 2006 4:31:15 PM

WELL TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH I KNOW S**T about server building and my dad needs a new comp for his bakery a light duty server just for payroll what do you recommend?
February 17, 2006 4:39:47 PM

Since it involves bookkeeping, have two hd's in raid 1, even a couple 80's would work if that's all he's going to do. A simple athlon 64 3k with 1 gig of ram would be more than enough, heck dare I say a sempron would work fine, even 512 would work well for that. Get a good quality mobo, asus is my first choice and a high quality ps for reliability, silverstone, enermax, aspire, etc. Just because it needs to be a "server" doesn't mean it can't be a "desktop" :) 

I just built a similar system for a realtor, it's got a nice chieftec server case for expansion possibilities, two 80gigs, a gig of ram, an asus board with integrated video, 6100 chipset I think, DVD burner, floppy, and a silverstone 460watt ps, cost around 700 I think.
February 17, 2006 10:00:10 PM

ok thx man so ill go for the sempron
February 17, 2006 11:54:27 PM

then you can always upgrade :) 
February 18, 2006 12:10:29 AM

ok thx man sempron 2500 1 gig ram x1300 base components :D 
February 18, 2006 12:17:07 AM

x1300?? why? throw in an old pci 2 meg cirrus!!
February 18, 2006 3:16:14 AM

The AMD64 socket 940 architecture is vastly superior:

2 CPUs with 4 sticks of RAM have 2 times the memory bandwidth

4 CPUs with 8 sticks of RAM have 4 times the memory bandwidth

8 CPUs with 16 sticks of RAM have 8 times the memory bandwidth

This is the beauty of the AMD64 SMP architecture




Please have a look at these benchmarks and read them carefully :D 

http://www.linuxhardware.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/24/17...

http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2163

http://www.intel.com/performance/desktop/extreme/em64t....

AMD64 is VASTLY better in 64bit mode.
!