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My friend refuses to trade: My 4000+ Claw for his Sandy.

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February 19, 2006 3:30:38 PM

Hi,

I have a dilema on my hands. I can't convince my friend to trade his sandy 4000+ for my Claw 4000+. Seeing as how I decided to overclock now, and I can squeeze out 600mhz out of the Sandy, and he doesnt even want to overclock, I feel there is a great need for the trade. He didn't even order a Sandy, Zipzoomfly sent him the wrong core. He has no reason for not wanting to trade, I think he's just being a bit stubborn. I ordered my proc before the Sandy was out. I know the Sandy's bench maybe a smidge higher than the Claws, but after all the help I did on his rig building (picking and correcting his build specifications to an extreme benefit) he could at least do me this tiny favor? I even threw in some headphones and some free arctic silver 5 to mount his claw if he trades.

What do you guys think? Can you guys help me out on this deal? My new Mobo, Heatsink fan, and Ram comes tomorrow and I need a Sandy to Overclock well.
February 19, 2006 3:34:15 PM

maybe he doesnt wanna trade his sandy maybe cause he likes it and you might have told him that his is better?
February 19, 2006 3:59:25 PM

What exactly do you want us to do about it???
:?: :?: :?: :?:

Give us his phone number....maybe somebody will call and talk to him?
Were not therapists...so I have no idea as to why you would post
a thread like this.

The difference between the two CPUs. SEE3 and 90nm. Of course the SD
is going to overall be the better chip. So if you want it, just bring up
the fact that he doesnt OC. It's a damn fine CPU and then be nice about it.
February 19, 2006 6:43:23 PM

Wow, I just wanted some more opinons that the difference between the two processors isnt enough to screw a friend over for, thats all. Maybe your opinions can be "theraputic" to his decision to this whole thing. Sorry for wasting your time.
February 19, 2006 6:54:28 PM

Well from what you said it is HIS cpu and he has the right to do whatever he wants with it despite if you helped him build it or not. If he payed for it, and bought it for himself I'd say he can do whatever he wishes.

Maybe you should have waited to buy yours, though I don't know what kind of time frame we are talking here. Just a thought :wink:

On a side note you probably think he is being stubburn because your not getting your way.
a b à CPUs
February 19, 2006 7:59:28 PM

"and I can squeeze out 600mhz out of the Sandy,"

You are engaging in 'highly wishful thinking' in that you would hit 3G out of either core.....

YOu could prob safely squeeze another 200 Mhz out of even the Claw core...

(Half the people 'into overclocking' don't seem to realize that in gaming at a decent high resolution, a 2.2G 3500+ scores 99% of the framerates of an FX57; ergo, the video card is much more important in framerates. The 4000+ is more than enough.)
February 20, 2006 4:51:15 AM

Quote:
"(Half the people 'into overclocking' don't seem to realize that in gaming at a decent high resolution, a 2.2G 3500+ scores 99% of the framerates of an FX57; ergo, the video card is much more important in framerates. The 4000+ is more than enough.)


Hmm, that must mean you've never OC'd a new CPU. Just using my 3700+ Sandy, OC'ing from 2.2GHz to 2.66GHz bring me from 35ish to 42ish frames in FEAR on Ultra High, and 3DMARK scores go up by 2-10%. You're one of those "Overclocking Is Overrated" guys, aren't you? I was too, until I actually started overclocking.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 20, 2006 6:21:18 AM

maybe your "better performance" is from your OCed RAM..
when RAM is OCed, performance outcome is different... noticibly...
w/o ram oc.. i also can't tell the difference from CPU only for gaming...
ofcourse... it is VERY different when you use CAD...
but gaming.... nope... VGA & RAM rulez it all... almost...
February 20, 2006 7:21:57 AM

Thanks for telling me what I already knew, you talk like I'm a newb to computers (didn't notice my name or sig??). That would all be true, if I had my RAM to 1:1... I need not increase RAM speed because running x64 XP Pro has given me 10% performance boost alone compared to my system running x86 XP Pro.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 20, 2006 7:30:41 AM

Tom's has a handy little cpu comparison chart. Let's see what it says.
When going from a 3800 to an FX57, in fartcry, add 14%, in wolfenstien, add 19%, in UT/04, add24%.
Oh wait, the FX also has more cache. Let's compare going from a 3200 to a 3800. In fartcry, 14%. In wolfy, 15% and in UT/04 14%.
Every game drives cpu usage to 100%. WTF did you think the game did with the extra power?
February 20, 2006 7:35:10 AM

If it's a Prescott, it used it to heat the house 8).

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 20, 2006 7:35:43 AM

More CPU is useful to a point. Once u get into the higher resolutions such as 1600x1200 and above then the cpu hardly makes a diff. I'm strictly talking single core cpu's here obviously. CPU does make more of a diff @ more mainstream resolutions such as 800x600-1280x1024. So to some things up unless you've got a 20+ inch moniter a faster CPU will always help you.
February 20, 2006 7:37:25 AM

If you had the choice of a 4000+ or a FX-57, you know what you'd take.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 20, 2006 7:45:51 AM

That's not stictly true either. As the cpu does less AI, it can take on more of the gpu's simpler functions. Since the framerate has been driven into the ground, every bit of help becomes all the more critical. Depending how the game is coded, that could be when the cpu adds the most frames.
February 20, 2006 7:19:26 PM

Quote:
"and I can squeeze out 600mhz out of the Sandy,"

You are engaging in 'highly wishful thinking' in that you would hit 3G out of either core.....


O RLY?


I used to run at 3.0ghz, but CoD2 crashed once every 3-4 days
(btw, this is air cooled, no water)

edit: and those temps are right after I stopped the test, it never gets above 46c
February 20, 2006 7:50:52 PM

To tell you the truth,if i was that friend the last thing i'd do is givel you a perfectly good working chip for a similar chip that may not be a perfectly good working one.
He's doing the right thing not accepting that exchange. It's never wise to have 100% trust and confidence in friends. I did that mistacke and was sometimes dissapointed. Friends are humans and they make mistackes too. And friends can be sneaky :wink:
Do you tricked him before?
February 21, 2006 2:19:37 AM

If you honestly saw his pc specs before he talked to me about them, you would definately change your mind. The guy who posted those benches of his 2.94ghz 4000+ knows what im talking about. He helped him with it too. He had, I believe, the new 6100 integrated graphics motherboard, and said "yeah if your 4200TI could keep up with almost every game, then the 6100 will definately beat it!" So after I told him that was wrong he tried and convince me that this mobo+7800gt combo deal online was a great buy. Once again. The mobo was offbrand generic PoS. So after I finally convinced him on a processor (from a 2800+ XP), case (which sadly took the longest to convince him that getting a $30 case with a 350W psu was a bad idea.) and mobo, he picked out the rest..... (Powersupply, RAM which was his better judgement just because someone else had some.) So in essence, he would have wasted about.... hrmmm...all of his money.

I'm not trying to make it seem like hes completely clueless, he is very smart in many fields. But I just feel violated that he cant even return a little favor, considering all the help I did on his PC. Not to mention all the other times Ive helped him out.

What is the massive difference between the procs. He's not overclocking and this processor obviously works great if I can write this email and play all my games great. They are statistically equal on many levels, although the sandiego can squeeze out a few more frames on OpenGL apps. So its not like I've screwed him over ever in his life and I certainly am not doing it with this trade either.

Edit:
Quote:
Well from what you said it is HIS cpu and he has the right to do whatever he wants with it despite if you helped him build it or not. If he payed for it, and bought it for himself I'd say he can do whatever he wishes.


Well considering he ordered a Clawhammer he never really bought it with his own money. He didnt even know it was a San Diego until i asked him to check something, and has no idea why he is stubborn other than the fact he thinks im screwing him over.


Quote:
On a side note you probably think he is being stubburn because your not getting your way.


No. Hes stubborn because he has an overinflated ego.
February 21, 2006 2:53:11 AM

no offence but your being a bit of a baby. i see your point but it is his money and he payed for the better processor so he got the better processor. Maybe if you pay him the difference, he'll trade, but i doubt it, he probably like being superior and gloating 8)
February 21, 2006 3:44:55 AM

Technically the balance would be ~negative $16. So if your saying he should pay falcon1209 $16 to trade processors, then I would have to agree.
February 21, 2006 3:48:27 AM

but i thought claws were older hotter and cheaper(like juan287's mom, excepte the hotter part) than sandiego's, so falcon would pay his frined to get the better processor, the sandy.
February 21, 2006 3:53:40 AM

Nice.

What're the timings/voltage you used on your RAM? Is it DDR400 RAM or did you go w/ something higher like DDR500? I've got 4x Corsair DDR400 2-3-2 DIMMs so I have trouble getting this crap to OC. Need to invest in some 2x DIMMs.

Anyways, just curious what timings/voltages you used.

-mpjesse
February 21, 2006 10:36:37 AM

corvetteguy: The Clawhammer is still more money if you check ZipZoom or Newegg (although on Newegg it's only $1 more)

mpjesse: My ram is DDR400, standard XMS (none of that Pro stuff) 1.75v @ 2.5-3-3-6 490MHz. I was actually surprised it could go that fast :) 
February 21, 2006 5:15:46 PM

Quote:
but it is his money and he payed for the better processor so he got the better processor.


O rly? His invoice clearly states he ordered a Clawhammer. This is the 3rd count of Zipzoomfly screwing up an order that I have physically witnessed. I of course was the 3rd mess up, but I was the only one who didnt get anything good out of it. (Sent me wrong ram.) I understand if I sound whiny, but this is the shaft considering nobody could ever, performance wise, notice a difference without overclocking between the two processors. Maybe a few degrees C and maybe .4 FPS in a few games, but that's not exactly noticable.
February 21, 2006 5:39:53 PM

If I were him I sure as hell wouldn't trade you. Beside you sounding like a complete arse right now, it's also clearly a better chip and his rig is up and running, stable, and safe.

So wah wah. :cry: 

His proc. His choice. End of story.

If you were truly his friend then you'd respect his choice and stop whining already.

Hell, if he'd gotten what he ordered then right now you'd be perfectly happy. Go to that place. Be happy.

Be happy for him that he got a free upgrade. Because that's what a real friend would do.
February 21, 2006 8:53:14 PM

Quote:
but i thought claws were older hotter and cheaper(like juan287's mom, excepte the hotter part).
lol vettey nicely put lol :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
February 27, 2006 1:20:14 AM

dude, where did u get that winxp theme from? I like it
February 27, 2006 2:53:40 PM

And if he did swap processors with you, and the 'Claw' went pop, would you give him his 'Sandy' back again? What if the Claws warranty was over, and the Sandy was still in warranty.

Or would you expect your friend to sent the chip back to the supplier claiming it was the chip he recieved in the first place.

Im with your friend on this one, there is no way I would 'trade' processors with a friend, too much hassle should anything break. If his computer is stable, and reliable, I doubt there is any 'justifiable' reason why he should risk damaging it, just so you can have the 'better' processor.

And it doesnt matter that the supplier sent the 'wrong' processor. Perhaps they were out of stock of Claws, so they sent the closest possible alternative. Either way, it was still paid for by his money.
February 27, 2006 3:00:51 PM

Quote:
dude, where did u get that winxp theme from? I like it


That does look like Windowblinds for Themes. I use it, makes XP lil more interesting to look at.

WindowBlinds

This site would have the Themes for different apps including WindowBlinds that people make:

WinCustomise
a b à CPUs
February 27, 2006 6:26:33 PM

"OC'ing from 2.2GHz to 2.66GHz bring me from 35ish to 42ish frames in FEAR on Ultra High, and 3DMARK scores go up by 2-10%."

My own 3500+ when raised from 2.2 to 2.5G gained absolutely nothing in FEAR average framerates, which is to be expected when/if the benchmark or game is gpu bound, such as using 1024x768/4xAA/16xAF settings; those results mirror those obtained in Athlon 64/7800 scaling at Firingsquad, etc...(everything set to max, soft shadows off, DX8 shaders off, drivers at default "quality" level)

Perhaps you were using either a much faster video cardin FEAR, or lesser settings?

Here's a scaling shart of A64/FEAR framerates using 6800GT and 7800GTX....

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/athlon_64_geforce_7...

At 16xAF settings, the disparity is even smaller....

Ergo...VIDEO is almost everything in gaming at high res, as long as you have enough processor!
a b à CPUs
February 27, 2006 6:31:28 PM

"I used to run at 3.0ghz, but CoD2 crashed once every 3-4 days "

At least you are honest enough to admit the minor stability issues exist with at least one rig out there when searching for 3G out of an A64....
a b à CPUs
February 27, 2006 6:39:20 PM

"Hmm, that must mean you've never OC'd a new CPU. "

On the contrary...

I've had the Celeron300a at 464, the P3/600E at 832, etc....

I'll requalify my statement....

If playing at gpu bound resolutions in games (i.e., higher than 1024x768 with AA/AF), the 200-400 MHz cpu overclock in many games results in virtually no improvement, if already at an A64/3500+ and using a 7800GT...

Just out of curiosity....

At what settings and with what video card were you only getting 35 fps in FEAR? If playing at lower res, sure, perhaps more cpu speed will help; but, enable 4xAA/and 16xAF at 1024x768 or above, and you will see that an FX57 scores less than 1 fps more than a 3500+.
February 27, 2006 11:29:30 PM

umm my mom always said to me:
San Diego good :D 
Clawhammer baddd :( 

today... it is the same
February 28, 2006 12:17:16 AM

just swap it when he isn't there. very sneaky sneaky.
Deny everything!

Thats what friend are for right?
February 28, 2006 12:24:12 AM

Quote:
What exactly do you want us to do about it???
:?: :?: :?: :?:


exactly i find this post pointless if he doesnt wanna trade too bad dont be friends with him and send him a virus THE END
February 28, 2006 12:42:15 AM

Quote:
Hi,

I have a dilema on my hands. I can't convince my friend to trade his sandy 4000+ for my Claw 4000+. Seeing as how I decided to overclock now, and I can squeeze out 600mhz out of the Sandy, and he doesnt even want to overclock, I feel there is a great need for the trade. He didn't even order a Sandy, Zipzoomfly sent him the wrong core. He has no reason for not wanting to trade, I think he's just being a bit stubborn. I ordered my proc before the Sandy was out. I know the Sandy's bench maybe a smidge higher than the Claws, but after all the help I did on his rig building (picking and correcting his build specifications to an extreme benefit) he could at least do me this tiny favor? I even threw in some headphones and some free arctic silver 5 to mount his claw if he trades.

What do you guys think? Can you guys help me out on this deal? My new Mobo, Heatsink fan, and Ram comes tomorrow and I need a Sandy to Overclock well.

For a fair trade I think you should give him some cash with your CPU since his CPU is better than yours. I would call you greedy if you don't offer him something for his better CPU.
February 28, 2006 1:31:42 AM

buy a shiny heatsink that like 15 bucks tell him its top of the line :lol:  :lol: 
February 28, 2006 1:54:45 AM

lol freinds dont ripoff other freinds
February 28, 2006 2:07:30 AM

you can't just force someone to to you a 'favor' just because you feel like it or you felt like you've helped them. from your perspective it sounds like a reasonable enough idea, but if your mate doesn't want to trade his parts, then he has a right not to. so if you know they are sure they don't want to trade then just drop it.
February 28, 2006 2:16:14 AM

Quote:
lol freinds dont ripoff other freinds


who said they were gonna be friends afterwards :)  :lol:  :lol: 
February 28, 2006 3:04:03 AM

Wow. These threads are sometimes nice, and I learn stuff. But in this case, somebody needs to get a life.

:roll:
February 28, 2006 3:41:02 AM

I don't know the Sandy has SSE3 support the Claw does not, and 90nm vs 130nm. I don't blame him I wouldn't want to trade either. If you want it that bad offer him the great equalizer..... Cash.
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