Of what value is TAS?

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

So your indicated airspeed is 140 kts. Your true airspeed is 156.8 kts.
Great.

If you are flying into a 40 kt headwind, I'm just not sure what value true
airspeed has to a pilot.

Dallas
56 answers Last reply
More about tomshardware
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Mon, 02 May 2005 19:27:22 GMT, "Dallas"
    <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> brought up the following:
    >
    >So your indicated airspeed is 140 kts. Your true airspeed is 156.8 kts.
    >Great. If you are flying into a 40 kt headwind, I'm just not sure what value
    >true airspeed has to a pilot.
    >
    >Dallas
    >


    Will do a spreadsheet on this one.. also want to understand it better.


    -G
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    When you file a flight plan with the FAA, you use your
    TAS as the airspeed figure for one thing.


    On Mon, 02 May 2005 19:27:22 GMT, "Dallas"
    <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

    >
    >So your indicated airspeed is 140 kts. Your true airspeed is 156.8 kts.
    >Great.
    >
    >If you are flying into a 40 kt headwind, I'm just not sure what value true
    >airspeed has to a pilot.
    >
    >Dallas
    >
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dallas wrote:
    > So your indicated airspeed is 140 kts. Your true airspeed is 156.8
    > kts. Great.
    >
    > If you are flying into a 40 kt headwind, I'm just not sure what value
    > true airspeed has to a pilot.
    >

    If these are random figures, none. Are they from a actual readout/flight??
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    > If you are flying into a 40 kt headwind, I'm just not sure what value
    true
    > airspeed has to a pilot

    In the smaller GA aircraft, true airspeed serves many functions. A
    couple off the top of my head:

    1) Fuel required: In zero wind, true airspeed equals ground speed.
    In a wind scenario, true airspeed plus or minus the wind factor equals
    ground speed. The speed across the ground will give you time required
    to make your waypoint/destination. Fuel usage in small aircraft is a
    measure of fuel burned per hour flown. Thus, if you have the time it
    will take to get to your destination and you know how much fuel you
    burn per hour, you will know how much fuel you need to get to your
    destination.

    2) Health of the engine(s): Since true airspeed is a known value for
    a given altitude and temperature, a deviation from this known value is
    a potential indication of an issue with the engine.

    --
    Peter
  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dallas,
    True Airspeed is necessary to know if a pilot is calculating things like
    groundspeed and time to waypoint(s), as well as fuel consumption. It's not
    too critical if you are simply flying locally, but if you are flying a long
    cross country, at near maximum weight, with limited fuel, then TAS comes in
    pretty handy. Some airspeed indicators have adjustable rings around the edge
    of the dial that can be set for temperature and pressure, and then show TAS.

    Randy L.

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:uavde.3240$BE3.1024@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > So your indicated airspeed is 140 kts. Your true airspeed is 156.8 kts.
    > Great.
    >
    > If you are flying into a 40 kt headwind, I'm just not sure what value true
    > airspeed has to a pilot.
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dallas wrote:

    > Ok.. perhaps my question should have been how do you accurately
    determine
    > the wind speed and direction aloft, because without that factor TAS
    could be
    > dangerously deceptive?

    The old time pilots here are going to get all over my case on this one
    <G>, but one method is to use the GPS. The Garmin GNS430/530 has a
    winds aloft calculator page that requires the pilot to enter indicated
    airspeed, altitude, outside temperature, and barometric pressure, which
    results in TAS. The pilot then enters indicated heading and the GPS
    will calculate winds aloft.

    Of course, since you are interested in groundspeed for fuel usage
    monitoring, you don't even need to calculate winds aloft. The GPS
    shows groundspeed on many of its navigation pages.

    There certainly is a manual method for calculating groundspeed that is
    taught during the cross country section of the private pilot training.
    This involves timing between two known ground features or navigational
    waypoints.

    > I was thinking that one use of TAS would be to determine wind speed
    by
    > timing the distance between two points and subtracting ground speed
    from
    > TAS. But at that point.. so what? What we really wanted here was
    > groundspeed anyway.

    Look at the GPS or, if not equipped, do as you suggested. Choose two
    points that are only about 30 nm apart, then time the trip between
    them. With this groundspeed, you can then calculate an estimated time
    of arrival to the next waypoint along your flight. This time can then
    be used to calculate an estimated fuel flow. The important point is to
    continually perform this calculation in the likely event that winds
    aloft changes direction or speed.

    --
    Peter
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Randy wrote:

    > The few times that I have calculated and flown a cross country
    flights
    > using TAS and winds aloft forecasts really surprised me in how
    accurate
    > those winds aloft predictions were.

    And when the actual winds aloft is different than the forecast winds
    aloft, it will always be a lot stronger.

    Murphy's Aviation Law # 78. :)

    --
    Peter
  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Quilljar wrote:

    >
    http://community.webshots.com/­scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action­=showMyPh...

    <snip>

    Hey, Quilly, do you have to somehow allow non-members of Webshots to
    see these pictures? I am getting a Webshots error stating that I am
    not the owner of these pictures.

    > For Dally, my answer is that IAS is needed for you to keep the
    aircraft in
    > the air. The TAS is essential for navigation. So IAS is for pilots
    and TAS
    > is for navigators. If you are single handed then you must have both.

    Hey, I like this. Right to the point. Very nice...

    --
    Peter
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Gregory wrote:

    > Please describe more about the specifics of CAS and TAS.

    Calibrated Airspeed (CAS) is Indicated Airspeed (IAS) corrected for
    airspeed indicator and/or installation errors. The Pilot's Operating
    Handbook of smaller aircraft contains the IAS to CAS table, but
    normally the difference between CAS and IAS is only about a knot or two
    (at least when discussing the airspeeds of the standard
    non-turboprop/jet GA aircraft).

    True Airspeed (TAS) is Calibrated Airspeed (CAS) corrected for
    temperature and altitude. As Dudley indicated, TAS and CAS are about
    the same at sea level, but as an aircraft climbs higher, TAS is greater
    than CAS.

    --
    Peter
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Gregory wrote:

    > Please describe more about
    > the specifics of CAS and TAS.. is that Total or True AS?

    [Apologies if my previous response appeared on your server. Google
    dropped my first reply, however, which is pretty bizarre considering I
    posted from Google. Now I have to type the whole thing over again from
    memory]

    Calibrated Airspeed (CAS) is Indicated Airspeed (IAS - that which is
    shown on the airspeed indicator) corrected for airspeed indicator
    and/or installation error. The pilot's operating handbook contains a
    table showing the IAS to CAS values. For the non-turboprop/jet GA
    aircraft, though, the difference between CAS and IAS is usually only a
    few knots or less.

    True Airspeed (TAS) is CAS corrected for temperature and altitude. As
    Dudley pointed out, TAS and CAS are about the same at sea level.
    However, as the aircraft climbs, TAS is greater than CAS.

    --
    Peter
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On 2 May 2005 16:01:32 -0700, "pr" <proffice@twcny.rr.com> brought the
    following to our attention:

    >Gregory wrote:
    >
    >> Please describe more about the specifics of CAS and TAS.
    >
    >Calibrated Airspeed (CAS) is Indicated Airspeed (IAS) corrected for air-
    >speed indicator and/or installation errors. The Pilot's Operating Handbook
    >of smaller aircraft contains the IAS to CAS table, but normally the difference
    >between CAS and IAS is only about a knot or two (at least when discussing
    >the airspeeds of the standard non-turboprop/jet GA aircraft).

    thanks Peter.. very good reply. I mostly enjoy Simming the old
    jetliners. Occasionally a Beech turbo-twin!

    >True Airspeed (TAS) is Calibrated Airspeed (CAS) corrected for temperature
    >and altitude. As Dudley indicated, TAS and CAS are about the same at sea
    >level, but as an aircraft climbs higher, TAS is greater than CAS.

    Between your reply and discussion from the `old pros'.. it should be
    enough to create a series of curves for TAS. I think it would be good,
    if users are so inclined and have the time, to work through the math
    in the above link.


    -Gregory
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On 2 May 2005 16:06:16 -0700, "pr" <proffice@twcny.rr.com> brought the
    following to our attention:

    >[Apologies if my previous response appeared on your server. Google
    >dropped my first reply, however, which is pretty bizarre considering I
    >posted from Google. Now I have to type the whole thing over again from
    >memory]

    iT showed up thru giganews ok.. replied to it already.


    -G
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "pr" <proffice@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
    news:1115071495.603600.88620@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

    > And when the actual winds aloft is different than the forecast winds
    > aloft, it will always be a lot stronger.

    You mean, "it will always be a lot stronger to your detriment." It's almost
    never stronger in your favor (tailwind). :)
    --
    Chris
    http://www.mcmartinville.com
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Gregory"
    > Will do a spreadsheet on this one..

    Yea! A spreadsheet! :-)


    Dallas
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:uavde.3240$BE3.1024@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > So your indicated airspeed is 140 kts. Your true airspeed is 156.8 kts.
    > Great.
    >
    > If you are flying into a 40 kt headwind, I'm just not sure what value true
    > airspeed has to a pilot.
    >
    > Dallas

    TAS is your ACTUAL speed through the air. Think about the ramifications of
    this information as it pertains to all your navigational computations and it
    will make more sense.
    Dudley
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
    news:jNvde.681$DC2.173@okepread01...
    > Dallas wrote:
    >> So your indicated airspeed is 140 kts. Your true airspeed is 156.8
    >> kts. Great.
    >>
    >> If you are flying into a 40 kt headwind, I'm just not sure what value
    >> true airspeed has to a pilot.
    >>
    >
    > If these are random figures, none. Are they from a actual
    > readout/flight??

    True airspeed is IAS (CAS) corrected for air density. It represents the
    airplane's ACTUAL speed through the air mass in which it's traveling. In
    this case, with a TAS of 157kts, the GROUND SPEED of the airplane with a
    40Kt headwind would be 117kts. This ground speed will affect every
    navigational computation used in the flight that determines time enroute and
    fuel expended. TAS is a VERY important factor to determine in flight
    planning.
    Using IAS in this case of 140kts, the ground speed would be computed at
    100kts deducting for the 40kt headwind. This is a totally incorrect
    calculation that would affect all times enroute, and even more important,
    all fuel computations for the flight.
    The differences in this instance are not all that great, but you take a 747
    to high altitude and start using the IAS for your navigational problems and
    you'll be in fuel trouble in short order! :-))
    IAS should be considered as an indicator telling you where you are in
    relation to your 1g stall speed. It's useful when considering performance
    such as approach speeds, stall speeds, Vx, Vy, and the like, but when it
    comes down to needing to know how fast the airplane is ACTUALLY MOVING
    through the air mass, you MUST know your TAS, and that means correcting your
    IAS for factors affecting air density.
    Hope this helps
    Dudley
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dudley Henriques wrote:
    >
    > True airspeed

    Geezz, I just hate it when people make sense....

    When I first glanced at the figures I was comparing 100kt ground speed with
    157kt TAS and it just didn't compute in my confuluted (that's an Arky term)
    logic.......... d:->))
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Mon, 02 May 2005 20:22:06 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
    <dhenriques@noware .net> brought the following to our attention:

    >True airspeed is IAS (CAS) corrected for air density. It represents the
    >airplane's ACTUAL speed through the air mass in which it's traveling. In
    >this case, with a TAS of 157kts, the GROUND SPEED of the airplane with a
    >40Kt headwind would be 117kts. This ground speed will affect every
    >navigational computation used in the flight that determines time enroute and
    >fuel expended. TAS is a VERY important factor to determine in flight planning.

    yep.. Yippie.... a spreadsheet. :)


    Ok here's a GOOD link for the relations needed..

    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/atmosphere/q0049.shtml


    Now you can determine atmospheric..

    Pressure ratio - Delta

    Temperature ratio - Theta

    Density ratio - Sigma


    Found some other web pages which provide definitions.. so the
    next step is to put it ALL together. Please describe more about
    the specifics of CAS and TAS.. is that Total or True AS?


    -Gregory
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dudley Henriques"
    > In this case, with a TAS of 157kts, the GROUND SPEED of
    > the airplane with a 40Kt headwind would be 117kts.

    Ok.. perhaps my question should have been how do you accurately determine
    the wind speed and direction aloft, because without that factor TAS could be
    dangerously deceptive?

    I was thinking that one use of TAS would be to determine wind speed by
    timing the distance between two points and subtracting ground speed from
    TAS. But at that point.. so what? What we really wanted here was
    groundspeed anyway.


    Dallas
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:6swde.4055$GQ5.2873@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > Ok.. perhaps my question should have been how do you accurately determine
    > the wind speed and direction aloft, because without that factor TAS could
    > be
    > dangerously deceptive?
    >
    Dallas,
    The "winds aloft" prediction is part of the weather briefing that most
    pilots study before a flight. In the US these winds are part of the Area
    Forcast (FA) that can be gotten several ways. One way is using the internet,
    and a program like DUATS, which is a service that helps pilots plan cross
    country flights. Another way is to call the local Flight Service Station
    when you file your initial flightplan and request the winds aloft forecast.
    Or you can contact FSS while in the air for an updated Winds Aloft briefing.
    Winds Aloft data is gathered by the National Weather Service using weather
    balloons that collect data such as barometric pressure, temperature,
    humidity, and wind speed & direction. The NWS releases these balloons on a
    regular schedule, and use the collected data from them to make their
    precdictions and forecasts. Another source of winds aloft data comes from
    pilots who make PIREPS (Pilot REPorts) while in flight.
    The few times that I have calculated and flown a cross country flights
    using TAS and winds aloft forecasts really surprised me in how accurate
    those winds aloft predictions were. I was reaching my waypoints within only
    a few miunutes difference from the time that I had calculated.

    Randy L.
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "CRaSH"
    > If these are random figures, none. Are they from a actual
    readout/flight??

    Not random, they are the TAS for ISA 140 kt. and Altitude 6,000.

    Dallas
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dallas wrote:
    > So your indicated airspeed is 140 kts. Your true airspeed is
    > 156.8 kts [...]
    >
    >> If these are random figures, none. Are they from a actual
    >> readout/flight??
    >
    > Not random, they are the TAS for ISA 140 kt. and Altitude 6,000.

    That's the TAS if the temperature at 6,000' is 15C (which is NOT ISA
    temp). But if it's 0C (32F) outside, then your TAS is only 152 kts...
    about 5 kts less... so after six hours of flight, you'll land about 30
    nm short of your destination if you used the ~157 kt figure to
    calculate fuel duration <grin>.

    Too many online TAS "calculators" use the 2% per 1000' rule of thumb
    instead of real formulae. I can't seem to easily find one that does
    the right thing, though.

    Cheers,
    Kev
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:6swde.4055$GQ5.2873@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "Dudley Henriques"
    >> In this case, with a TAS of 157kts, the GROUND SPEED of
    >> the airplane with a 40Kt headwind would be 117kts.
    >
    > Ok.. perhaps my question should have been how do you accurately determine
    > the wind speed and direction aloft, because without that factor TAS could
    > be
    > dangerously deceptive?

    Depends. It can be determined with instruments, or visually using points of
    reference along a known course line. Visually, wind is estimated, then
    corrected to produce a new point of reference down the line affirming the
    correction's effect. Basically, in light airplanes, you are starting out
    with an estimated correction based on forcast winds aloft at your cruising
    altitude, then correcting for drift as you progress along your course line.
    The difference between your desired course and the heading you have to
    maintain to realize that course is your wind correction angle.
    Modern navigation devices can produce this for you electronically.
    Same with airspeed. You begin with an estimated TAS based on your IAS at
    cruise corrected for temp and density. Then you time between two known
    points to obtain enroute data. Then you adjust for any time difference shown
    on your estimate and get your ground speed. Then you use the ground speed to
    determine your arrival time at the next point or destination.
    Basically, all flying is is starting with an estimate based on known data,
    then adjusting that estimate (on the fly so to speak) to reflect any
    changes. Finally, using this process of constant correction, you should
    arrive at some hard data that will produce an accurate result for your final
    figures for the trip.
    Simple!! Sort of a "check" and re-check thing gets it done for you. :-))
    Dudley
    Dudley
    >
    > I was thinking that one use of TAS would be to determine wind speed by
    > timing the distance between two points and subtracting ground speed from
    > TAS. But at that point.. so what? What we really wanted here was
    > groundspeed anyway.
    >
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  24. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> schreef in bericht
    news:5uvde.2725$pe3.326@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    > news:uavde.3240$BE3.1024@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>
    >> So your indicated airspeed is 140 kts. Your true airspeed is 156.8 kts.
    >> Great.
    >>
    >> If you are flying into a 40 kt headwind, I'm just not sure what value
    >> true
    >> airspeed has to a pilot.
    >>
    >> Dallas
    >
    > TAS is your ACTUAL speed through the air. Think about the ramifications of
    > this information as it pertains to all your navigational computations and
    > it will make more sense.
    > Dudley
    >
    Dudley,

    In the times we did not have groundspeed readout readily available, I used
    it as an estimate for my groundspeed. It gets quite close. The same for Mach
    no. M 0.7 is almost 7 (statute) miles a minute. Agree?

    Loek
  25. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "L. Mulder" <lbn.mulder@t-online.de> wrote in message
    news:d561pu$tm3$00$1@news.t-online.com...
    >
    > "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> schreef in bericht
    > news:5uvde.2725$pe3.326@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    >>
    >> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    >> news:uavde.3240$BE3.1024@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>>
    >>> So your indicated airspeed is 140 kts. Your true airspeed is 156.8 kts.
    >>> Great.
    >>>
    >>> If you are flying into a 40 kt headwind, I'm just not sure what value
    >>> true
    >>> airspeed has to a pilot.
    >>>
    >>> Dallas
    >>
    >> TAS is your ACTUAL speed through the air. Think about the ramifications
    >> of this information as it pertains to all your navigational computations
    >> and it will make more sense.
    >> Dudley
    >>
    > Dudley,
    >
    > In the times we did not have groundspeed readout readily available, I used
    > it as an estimate for my groundspeed. It gets quite close. The same for
    > Mach no. M 0.7 is almost 7 (statute) miles a minute. Agree?
    >
    > Loek

    Basically, TAS and IAS are the same at SL on a standard day. As altitude
    increases, so does TAS due to lower temperature and density. A good rule of
    thumb is to add about 2% of your IAS per 1000 feet of altitude. That's
    pretty close for the average puddle jumper.
    For bigger and faster stuff, it's best to get an accurate reading based on
    known data.
    Dudley
  26. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    x> The old time pilots here are going to get all over my case on this one
    > <G>, but one method is to use the GPS.


    OK so you tempted me out of my cage!
    We old timers had nav calculators 50/60 years ago which were circular slide
    rules very like the plastic nav calculators the PPL has today. I have mine
    still. I will put up photos of it for you to see. You entered the altitude
    and temperature and IAS and read off the TAS very quickly.

    http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=204003612&photoID=337007661&security=CgbZxu

    http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=204003612&photoID=337007831&security=wCZueX

    http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=showMyPhoto&albumID=204003612&photoID=337008066&security=DBUiaU


    For Dally, my answer is that IAS is needed for you to keep the aircraft in
    the air. The TAS is essential for navigation. So IAS is for pilots and TAS
    is for navigators. If you are single handed then you must have both.


    Cheers,

    Quilly


    An individual reply goes into my spam filter
  27. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message

    news:ewwde.4060$GQ5.3807@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...

    Dallas;

    Here is a fine article that I consider a very good source for just the
    information you are seeking. It's basically about density altitude, but TAS
    is covered very well for you.

    Dudley

    Article follows;
    By David Ison for Plane and Pilot;

    According to the laws of physics, if the temperature and/or pressure of a
    gas are altered, density (remember: number of molecules per unit of volume)
    also will change. For example, if you heat gas, the air molecules begin to
    move faster and strike each other. As they perform this dance, they spread
    out. Think about it like breaking the balls on a pool table. One fast-moving
    molecule comes in and hits some other molecules, speeding them up and
    spreading them out. In the long run, fewer molecules will occupy a given
    unit of volume, such as a square foot.

    The opposite is true with decreases in temperature—molecules slow down and
    become more closely packed. Take water, for instance. There are more water
    molecules in a cubic foot of liquid (cooler) water than in a cubic foot in
    gaseous (hotter) form. If you don’t believe me, weigh them and see for
    yourself (more molecules equals more weight!).

    Pressure also affects density. Increasing pressure smooshes molecules
    together, packing in more per unit of volume. In other words, density
    increases. The reverse occurs if pressure is decreased. When pressure is
    released, molecules can stretch out and have some breathing room. As they
    spread out, there are fewer per square foot, or whatever measurement you
    use, as density decreases. While variations in weather conditions have an
    effect on the ambient pressure, the biggest influence is altitude. Remember
    that for every 1,000 feet in altitude change, there’s one inch of mercury
    change in pressure. So the difference in molecular compression due to
    ambient pressure is much less in Denver, Colo., at around 5,000 feet versus
    Tampa, Fla., which sits near sea level.

    Density altitude is commonly referred to as the actual altitude at which the
    plane “feels” it’s flying. For instance, an airplane taking off in Billings,
    Mont., (elevation 3,500 feet) with an altimeter setting of 29.82 and a
    temperature of 40 degrees C is being flown at a density altitude of 7,100
    feet—the aircraft actually “feels” as if it’s flying at 7,100 feet. So the
    engine, wings and propeller act as though they’re much higher than what is
    read off of the altimeter. Hopefully, every pilot is aware that his or her
    plane flies a lot different at higher-density altitudes and some care is in
    order. That’s the layman’s version. Just like everything else in aviation,
    though, density altitude has an official defini-tion: “pressure altitude
    corrected for non-standard temperature.” Do you recall how temperature and
    pressure both influence density? Aren’t those two key words found in the
    definition of density altitude? Absolutely. So, basically, by calculating
    density altitude, we’re figuring out how atmospheric pressure and ambient
    temperature affect the airplane.

    In fact, increases in density altitude, that is, fewer molecules, decreases
    the available horsepower created by the aircraft’s engine and steals
    performance from the wings and propellers. It also causes the aircraft’s
    true airspeed to increase. But how can the number of air molecules, which
    are so small they can’t even be seen by the naked eye, keep airplanes from
    becoming airborne and rob them of vital performance?

    In order for engines to create power, oxygen is required so that fuel can be
    burned. If you have more oxygen (molecules) available, you can burn more gas
    and, in turn, create more power. If there’s less oxygen available, which is
    the case at higher-density altitudes, less power can be produced.
    Furthermore, the engine likes a particular ratio of fuel to oxygen. This is
    why at density altitudes near sea level, which are ripe with oxygen
    molecules, full rich mixture is used. Then, climbing up to higher altitudes
    where air molecules, including oxygen, become more and more scarce, pilots
    must reduce the fuel supplied to the engine by leaning the mixture. This
    keeps the engine happy by maintaining its desired fuel-to-air ratio.

    The wings and propellers function best in thick air, which is chock-full of
    molecules. This is due to the part of the lift equation dealing with Newton’s
    Third Law of Motion: For every action, there is an equal and opposite
    reaction. As air flows over a wing, it’s dumped downward off of the aft end.
    Each air molecule that makes this trip brings about an equal and opposite
    reaction. More molecules, more reaction. If there is, say, 5,000 pounds of
    air molecules being pushed down by the wing, there will be an equal and
    opposite reaction of 5,000 pounds augmenting aircraft lift. At
    higher-density altitudes, however, there are fewer molecules available.
    Therefore, there’s less equal and opposite reaction, or less lift.

    Unfortunately, propellers can only go so fast, usually somewhere in the
    neighborhood of 2,500 rpm, which in thick air pushes lots of air molecules,
    yielding more thrust than 2,500 rpm in thin air with its fewer particles.
    But wings have to develop a certain amount of lift to support the weight of
    the aircraft or else, obviously, the plane won’t fly! So how could you make
    up for the decreased number of air molecules passing over the wing at
    higher-density altitudes? What happens in the real world is that aircraft
    must travel faster. The faster the wing goes, the more molecules will be
    encountered at a given moment. More molecules, more lift.

    Dig deep into your memory. What’s the definition of true airspeed (TAS)? It’s
    “the speed of the airplane through the relatively undisturbed air mass.” We
    just learned that in order to keep the plane flying at high-density
    altitudes, the aircraft must travel through the air mass at a high rate of
    speed. Hence, what’s actually increasing is the true airspeed. Going back to
    our primary training, we know if true airspeed increases, so does
    groundspeed. If your groundspeed is higher during landing, you know the
    ground roll will be longer because there’s more speed to dissipate. And if
    more speed is required to pass enough air molecules over the wing to make it
    fly, the longer the takeoff roll will be as well.

    How come the fact that the plane is traveling faster doesn’t show up on the
    airspeed indicator? It’s because the airspeed indicator displays indicated
    airspeed, which is derived from the impact pressure—the number of molecules
    jammed into the pitot tube at a given moment. Since there are fewer
    molecules available at higher-density altitudes, the pitot tube must pass
    through the atmosphere faster to jam as many air molecules down its throat
    as it would passing through thicker, more densely populated air.

    This is why a 65-knot final approach speed is used whether you’re at sea
    level (in thick air) or at high altitude (thin air), or on a hot day, etc.
    At sea level, the plane travels around 65 knots TAS to encounter enough air
    molecules to stuff 65 knots’ worth of impact pressure into the pitot tube.
    While at higher altitudes, lower pressures or higher temperatures, the plane
    has to travel, say, 80 knots TAS to pack the pitot tube full of enough
    molecules to yield 65 knots worth of impact pressure.

    Thus far, we’ve seen how increases in temperature and decreases in pressure
    both lead to less dense air, thus higher-density altitudes. We’ve also seen
    how high-density altitudes can decrease aircraft performance. There’s
    another factor that many people neglect to take into account when
    determining density altitude—humidity. Water vapor molecules can and do
    displace nitrogen, oxygen and other gases. Considering that water molecules
    weigh less than those of nitrogen or oxygen, if water displaces these other
    elements in a particular parcel of air, it ends up weighing less and is thus
    less dense (O2 has an atomic weight of 32, N2 has an atomic weight of 28,
    and H2O is the lightest at an atomic weight of 18).

    The lesser mass of the water molecules translates into less potential energy
    when they’re pushed down off the back of a wing or propeller. The equal and
    opposite reaction from the water molecules is less than if there were oxygen
    or nitrogen molecules making the trip instead. Also, water doesn’t burn, so
    whenever water displaces oxygen, there’s less of the latter available to the
    combustion cylinders of the engine.

    Keep in mind, too, that hotter air can hold more water than cool air. At a
    given relative humidity, air at 15 degrees C contains less water vapor than
    the air at a temperature of 30 degrees C. Of course, if there’s more water
    in the air, it results in a higher-density altitude (less atmospheric
    density). For example, a field with a pressure altitude of 5,000 feet, 37
    degrees C and zero percent humidity bears a density altitude of around 8,600
    feet. Increase the humidity to 100%, and the density altitude jumps to 9,500
    feet. Evidently, you shouldn’t listen to the endless references that
    humidity doesn’t have an affect on density altitude!

    Considering how important density altitude is for the ability of the wing,
    the propeller(s) and the engine to do their jobs, pilots should always go
    the distance and check it prior to flying. Certainly, pilots need to use
    caution when dealing with the three Hs: hot, high and humid conditions.
    While the performance charts of most aircraft have a density-altitude
    correction built in to the process of calculation, it’s not a bad idea to
    figure out density altitude itself if for nothing more than shock value.
    When was the last time you maneuvered an airplane, or even more important,
    taken off or landed above 8,000 feet? Put that into consideration when the
    density altitude you uncover is up there. At high-density altitudes, the
    plane acts differently; it performs more sluggishly, if it performs at all.
    So don’t let density altitude sneak up on you by being dense about it and
    its dangers.
  28. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
    news:XKCde.2892$pe3.2265@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    >
    > news:ewwde.4060$GQ5.3807@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > Dallas;
    >
    > Here is a fine article that I consider a very good source for just the
    > information you are seeking. It's basically about density altitude, but
    > TAS is covered very well for you.
    >
    > Dudley
    >
    > Article follows;
    > By David Ison for Plane and Pilot;
    >

    <Snip>

    Dudley,

    The heck with simming, this article went right into my instructional folder
    for the real deal.

    Summer is coming here in Arizona. In fact, relative to most of the counrty,
    it's already here so high and hot are already a concern (not so much
    humid...we are, after all, in a desert...)

    The flying day now starts at 8am and soon will be moving back to 7am, then
    6am then eventually, sunrise flights to help insure proper performance.

    Some out there may remember the day several years ago that they said it was
    "Too hot to fly in Phoenix..." Now you know why. It wasn't the actual
    temperature, it was the lack of documented density altitude performance
    numbers in the pilot's operating handbooks (POHs) of the major airlines.

    Just for fun, take the C172 (or any normally asperated model) to Leadville,
    CO and set custom wx with an ambient temp of 100 degrees F. Put some weight
    in the plane with full tanks and see how hard it is to take off. Then, go
    reset the temp to 32 degrees F and try it again...bet you'll see a
    significant difference in ROC and take off roll. But, take note of the
    airspeeds involved. 60kts IAS is 60kts IAS ... it just takes longer to get
    there when you have high temps.

    Jay Beckman
    PP- ASEL / Sim Pilot Too
    Chandler, AZ
  29. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Hi Jay;
    Arizona has to be one of the best places we visited on our way out West. We
    ended up in Flagstaff, then took the back roads through the mountain pass
    and on up to Yellowstone. We didn't get to see Sedona. Everybody said it was
    beautiful there.....but Flagstaff was the most beautiful place on the whole
    trip!! :-)
    Glad you could use the article.
    Dudley

    "Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:7_Cde.3561$D91.2993@fed1read01...
    > "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
    > news:XKCde.2892$pe3.2265@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    >>
    >> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    >>
    >> news:ewwde.4060$GQ5.3807@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>
    >> Dallas;
    >>
    >> Here is a fine article that I consider a very good source for just the
    >> information you are seeking. It's basically about density altitude, but
    >> TAS is covered very well for you.
    >>
    >> Dudley
    >>
    >> Article follows;
    >> By David Ison for Plane and Pilot;
    >>
    >
    > <Snip>
    >
    > Dudley,
    >
    > The heck with simming, this article went right into my instructional
    > folder for the real deal.
    >
    > Summer is coming here in Arizona. In fact, relative to most of the
    > counrty, it's already here so high and hot are already a concern (not so
    > much humid...we are, after all, in a desert...)
    >
    > The flying day now starts at 8am and soon will be moving back to 7am, then
    > 6am then eventually, sunrise flights to help insure proper performance.
    >
    > Some out there may remember the day several years ago that they said it
    > was "Too hot to fly in Phoenix..." Now you know why. It wasn't the
    > actual temperature, it was the lack of documented density altitude
    > performance numbers in the pilot's operating handbooks (POHs) of the major
    > airlines.
    >
    > Just for fun, take the C172 (or any normally asperated model) to
    > Leadville, CO and set custom wx with an ambient temp of 100 degrees F.
    > Put some weight in the plane with full tanks and see how hard it is to
    > take off. Then, go reset the temp to 32 degrees F and try it again...bet
    > you'll see a significant difference in ROC and take off roll. But, take
    > note of the airspeeds involved. 60kts IAS is 60kts IAS ... it just takes
    > longer to get there when you have high temps.
    >
    > Jay Beckman
    > PP- ASEL / Sim Pilot Too
    > Chandler, AZ
    >
  30. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
    news:ymDde.2905$pe3.1903@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    > Hi Jay;
    > Arizona has to be one of the best places we visited on our way out West.
    > We ended up in Flagstaff, then took the back roads through the mountain
    > pass and on up to Yellowstone. We didn't get to see Sedona. Everybody said
    > it was beautiful there.....but Flagstaff was the most beautiful place on
    > the whole trip!! :-)
    > Glad you could use the article.
    > Dudley
    >

    Glad you enjoyed our variety of scenery.

    I'm sorry you never had the chance to experience Sedona from the air...truly
    amazing. I could fly there every week and probably never get bored with it.

    Jay
  31. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Quilljar"
    > So IAS is for pilots and TAS
    > is for navigators.

    Yes, nicely put... BUT....

    If you are using TAS alone to navigate into a 40 kt headwind, two things
    could happen: 1) You will miss your ETA. 2) You could run out of fuel.

    (see next post :-)

    Dallas
  32. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dudley Henriques"
    > Then you use the ground speed to
    > determine your arrival time at the next point or destination.

    It would seem that TAS's highest and best use is to calculate ground speed.

    Why not just consider it just a part of the calculations of the formula on
    the way to the calculation of ground speed?

    In other words, I don't see why it's "a thing", it's really just "part of a
    thing". Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only two speeds of importance in
    aviation are IAS and ground speed. Why don't we talk in terms of just those
    2 values.

    Why on earth is it an entry on the flight plan. - Why wouldn't the FAA want
    you to take winds aloft into consideration and make you calculate and enter
    your ground speed, a far more useful number for both of us?

    Dallas
  33. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:kwDde.4778$GQ5.1494@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "Dudley Henriques"
    >> Then you use the ground speed to
    >> determine your arrival time at the next point or destination.
    >
    > It would seem that TAS's highest and best use is to calculate ground
    > speed.
    >
    > Why not just consider it just a part of the calculations of the formula on
    > the way to the calculation of ground speed?
    >
    > In other words, I don't see why it's "a thing", it's really just "part of
    > a
    > thing". Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only two speeds of importance in
    > aviation are IAS and ground speed. Why don't we talk in terms of just
    > those
    > 2 values.
    >
    > Why on earth is it an entry on the flight plan. - Why wouldn't the FAA
    > want
    > you to take winds aloft into consideration and make you calculate and
    > enter
    > your ground speed, a far more useful number for both of us?
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >

    It's been my flying experience so far (since Feb of 04) that ATC works in a
    "No Wind" environment...

    ATC wants you to fly 090 degrees but you are crabbed into a 10kt wind from
    the north so that if you point your nose to 090, you're gonna be flying a
    course of something more akin to 096 degrees because of drift. You crab 5
    or 6 degrees to the left (nose to 085-ish) and voila, to ATC you're flying
    090.

    I have a suspicion (Dudley, correct me if I'm off base here...) that the
    approximate TAS you put on a flight plan is for relative reference only.
    ATC has cruise numbers for each type of aircraft (which is why they ask what
    type you are...) and that helps them anticipate closure rates/overtaking
    rates which are all relative regardless of the wind.

    If I'm crossing the Sky Harbor Class Bravo airspace from south to north with
    a tailwind, ATC knows that if I true out at around 115kts at 8000', then if
    the wind is 20kts, then I'm gonna be moving over the ground at 135kts.
    Conversely, if the wind were from the north, they know I'll be crawling
    along at only 95kts.

    I've not ever asked a controller if this is the case, but from my limited
    experience so far...this is how it appears to the neophite pilot.

    Jay B
  34. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Quilljar wrote:

    > I have just tested the photos again myself with perfect success,
    > although the link YOU gave did not work. Try my links once more.

    The link I provided was my attempt to quote you using Google's archaic
    interface. Disregard that. However, the link in your post, which is
    what I am using, returns an error about not being the owner and needing
    to sign in. Of course, then, it makes sense that you wouldn't have a
    problem with it, since you are most likely signed in to Webshots as the
    owner of this photo album.

    I recall reading another person posting pictures to Webshots and having
    to make the photo album "public." Is there such an option in your
    album?

    --
    Peter
  35. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Chris wrote:

    > You mean, "it will always be a lot stronger to your detriment." It's
    almost
    > never stronger in your favor (tailwind). :)

    Yep, you are certianly right. The problem with being immersed in the
    details of this is that I was thinking headwinds, but failed to type
    it.
    Let me try again:

    "When an actual headwind differs from the forecasted headwinds aloft,
    it will always be a lot stronger."

    (and, thanks to your input!)

    "When an actual tailwind differs from the forecasted tailwinds aloft,
    it will always be weaker."

    - Murphy's Aviation Law #78 *and* #79. :-)

    BTW, I am sure that some website actually documented Murphy's laws for
    aviation. However, this is all I came up with:

    Murphy's Law for Frequent Fliers:
    http://www.pcuf.fi/~jrk/murphy/air.html


    --
    Peter
  36. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Jay wrote:

    > It's been my flying experience so far (since Feb of 04) that ATC
    works in a
    > "No Wind" environment...

    In the US, ATC does take wind into factor when they issue their
    vectors. However, they expect an aircraft to fly the heading given to
    the pilot, not the ground track.

    Here's an example:

    A very strong soutwesterly wind is blowing. Normally, in a no-wind
    scenario, ATC issues a 070 vector to aircraft to join up with the 100
    localizer. The controller might try this a few times, but 070 has
    resulted in a few aircraft being blown through the localizer and having
    to correct back to the south to re-join. Thus, the controllor starts
    issuing 080 to join, knowing that the resulting ground track with the
    strong winds blowing will be 070. The pilots are expected to fly 080
    as the controller told them.

    > ATC wants you to fly 090 degrees but you are crabbed into a 10kt wind
    from
    > the north so that if you point your nose to 090, you're gonna be
    flying a
    > course of something more akin to 096 degrees because of drift. You
    crab 5
    > or 6 degrees to the left (nose to 085-ish) and voila, to ATC you're
    flying
    > 090.

    No, that is not correct, at least in the US. If ATC tells you to fly
    090, you set your heading bug to 090, point your nose to 090 and fly
    that vector. You are not to worry about your ground track or wind
    correction in this case; ATC will do that for you. If a strong wind
    is pushing you off ATC's intended course, they will issue you another
    heading that will realign you.

    You will see this in action when you train for your instrument rating
    and fly under an instrument flight rules.

    --
    Peter
  37. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dallas wrote:
    > "Quilljar"
    >> So IAS is for pilots and TAS
    >> is for navigators.
    >
    > Yes, nicely put... BUT....
    >
    > If you are using TAS alone to navigate into a 40 kt headwind, two
    > things could happen: 1) You will miss your ETA. 2) You could run
    > out of fuel.
    >
    > (see next post :-)
    >
    > Dallas


    But Dally, no-one would use TAS alone? You must always take wind speed and
    direction in to account. The only thing that matters is ground speed as you
    pointed out earlier, but you cannot calculaate that unless you have the True
    Airspeed first.

    As I have said before many times. 'I ain't never been lost while
    navigating - although I was uncertain of my position for three days once.!'


    --
    Cheers,

    Quilly


    An individual reply goes into my spam filter
  38. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    >
    > Hey, Quilly, do you have to somehow allow non-members of Webshots to
    > see these pictures? I am getting a Webshots error stating that I am
    > not the owner of these pictures.


    I am sorry Peter, but I understand that Webshots are always publicly
    available. I have just tested the photos again myself with perfect success,
    although the link YOU gave did not work. Try my links once more.

    Anyone else have a problem? If so I will try and fix it.

    Cheers,

    Quilly


    An individual reply goes into my spam filter
  39. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Quilljar wrote:

    > Please will someone else confirm this?

    Q, I work in the software business and I know whereof I speak. (That is
    a bit of a joke). I am telling you with absolute certainty that the
    problem is not at my end.

    Gregory posted a picture of the error message. Did you not see his
    post? I am receiving the same message.

    --
    Peter
  40. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Tue, 3 May 2005 08:02:57 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
    <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> brought the following to our
    attention:

    >>
    >> Hey, Quilly, do you have to somehow allow non-members of Webshots to
    >> see these pictures? I am getting a Webshots error stating that I am
    >> not the owner of these pictures.
    >
    >
    >I am sorry Peter, but I understand that Webshots are always publicly
    >available. I have just tested the photos again myself with perfect success,
    >although the link YOU gave did not work. Try my links once more.
    >
    >Anyone else have a problem? If so I will try and fix it.
    >

    yep.. here is what appears in the browser..

    http://mywebpages.comcast.net/flightsim/webshots.gif (4k)


    -G
  41. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Quilljar wrote:

    > Please will someone else confirm this?

    Another idea: I see a reference to EditPhoto in your original link.
    Perhaps you mistakenly posted a link that permits the owner to edit the
    photo, rather than a link that permits the rest of the world to browse
    the photos? Just a thought.

    --
    Peter
  42. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Tue, 3 May 2005 07:59:12 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
    <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> brought the following to our
    attention:

    >
    >But Dally, no-one would use TAS alone? You must always take wind speed and
    >direction in to account. The only thing that matters is ground speed as you
    >pointed out earlier, but you cannot calculaate that unless you have the True
    >Airspeed first.

    how about thinking of it like so.. The Indicated airspeed can be
    measured with your pressure tube and gauge. Then TAS (true airspeed)
    can be determined if OAT (outside temp) and ALT (barometer) are known.
    Now then.. winds aloft (direction and speed) come into the picture to
    find ground speed. This is where uncertainty comes in.. knowing
    accurately the wind currents. (Note: thinking in the Jet realm here).


    See now... how Weather Analyzer would benefit.. showing aloft winds.


    plug - request actrive contrials now.. that drift and form clouds!!

    >
    >As.. said before many times. 'I ain't never been lost while navigating -
    > although I was uncertain of my position for three days once.!'
    >

    I used to be uncertain of my position everyday for years!! ;]


    -Gregory
  43. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Quilljar wrote:

    > Try this to see my prized Nav calculator I hope it is worth it!

    There it is! Very nice.

    What a piece of aviation history. I hope you still have it.

    --
    Peter
  44. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Peter,
    My Webshots albums are 'public' and have been since Oct last year. They are
    accessible, as over 1000 of my photos have been downloaded by people. I get
    a count total each week.
    Maybe the last ones took a while to be uploaded. All I can say is try again.

    Please will someone else confirm this?

    Have you some firewall or cookies that are obstructing your access?

    Cheers,

    Quilly


    An individual reply goes into my spam filter
  45. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:kwDde.4778$GQ5.1494@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "Dudley Henriques"
    >> Then you use the ground speed to
    >> determine your arrival time at the next point or destination.
    >
    > It would seem that TAS's highest and best use is to calculate ground
    > speed.
    >
    > Why not just consider it just a part of the calculations of the formula on
    > the way to the calculation of ground speed?
    >
    > In other words, I don't see why it's "a thing", it's really just "part of
    > a
    > thing". Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only two speeds of importance in
    > aviation are IAS and ground speed. Why don't we talk in terms of just
    > those
    > 2 values.
    >
    > Why on earth is it an entry on the flight plan. - Why wouldn't the FAA
    > want
    > you to take winds aloft into consideration and make you calculate and
    > enter
    > your ground speed, a far more useful number for both of us?
    >
    > Dallas

    Well, for one thing, ground speed is an unknown at the time the flight plan
    is executed. You do have an estimated ground speed if you have done your
    preflight planning properly, but it's just an estimate.
    ACTUAL ground speed is determined as a data point that is constantly being
    updated in real time during a flight and can not be accurately stated on a
    flight plan and simply used as stated without correction later on during the
    flight. In other words, you really have no way of knowing EXACTLY what the
    effect of wind will be on your flight until you actually place the airplane
    in flight.
    A flight plan is nothing more than an estimate of performance based on
    available information at the time the flight plan is made up. Any flight
    plan assumes amendments to it will be made as NEW information is obtained
    during the progression of the flight.
    Determining your TAS is a necessary step in obtaining that first estimated
    ground speed. Without TAS being a known factor (or estimated factor) an
    estimate of ground speed would be impossible.
    In other words, TAS is a "tool" to use in determining expected performance.
    Knowing TAS makes your flight plan PREDICTABLE!!!
    Dudley
  46. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    This thread (although quite interesting) is making me think that our
    Dally/Varmit is what one might call a 'benign troll'...It is usually he who
    starts the ball rolling on subjects, often with his tongue firmly in one
    cheek:-)

    Come clean Dally, this IS your hobby isn't it? Benign trolling?

    Cheers,

    Quilly


    An individual reply goes into my spam filter
  47. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:1mFde.3577$D91.766@fed1read01...
    >
    > "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
    > news:ymDde.2905$pe3.1903@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    >> Hi Jay;
    >> Arizona has to be one of the best places we visited on our way out West.
    >> We ended up in Flagstaff, then took the back roads through the mountain
    >> pass and on up to Yellowstone. We didn't get to see Sedona. Everybody
    >> said it was beautiful there.....but Flagstaff was the most beautiful
    >> place on the whole trip!! :-)
    >> Glad you could use the article.
    >> Dudley
    >>
    >
    > Glad you enjoyed our variety of scenery.
    >
    > I'm sorry you never had the chance to experience Sedona from the
    > air...truly amazing. I could fly there every week and probably never get
    > bored with it.
    >
    > Jay

    The biggest surprise we had on our trip was when we arrived at Meteor
    Crater. I always thought it was some kind of National Park. We tried to use
    our Eagle passes to get in and they kind of laughed at us in a friendly
    fashion. We were very surprised to find out that the Crater is actually
    privately owned land, and that the Indians working the site were on salary
    as normal employees!! :-))
    Dudley
  48. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    >
    > Another idea: I see a reference to EditPhoto in your original link.
    > Perhaps you mistakenly posted a link that permits the owner to edit
    > the photo, rather than a link that permits the rest of the world to
    > browse the photos? Just a thought.

    and a very good one too. You are so right. I was in such a hurry to get the
    URL out thast I did not log onto the public site...ah me what an idiot I am!
    Try this to see my prized Nav calculator I hope it is worth it!

    http://client.webshots.com/album/204003612QQUuDJ/1
    --
    Cheers,

    Quilly


    An individual reply goes into my spam filter
  49. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Mon, 02 May 2005 19:34:44 GMT, "Dallas"
    <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> brought the following to our
    attention:

    >
    >"Gregory"
    >> Will do a spreadsheet on this one..
    >
    >Yea! A spreadsheet! :-)
    >
    >
    >Dallas
    >

    maybe PowerPoint viewgraphs would be better?!!
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