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thermal glue for the Athlon 64 x2 3800

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February 20, 2006 4:31:48 PM

hi there, i got my Athlon 64 x2 3800. but i haven't opened it yet cause i didn't get the rest of my hardware shipped yet. I was told it will come with the glue necessary to attach the heatsink to the cpu? is that a good kind of glue or should i use a better glue? I will probably overclock my cpu.
February 20, 2006 5:37:51 PM

First, it isn't "glue". It is usually a thermal pad that is pre-applied to retail CPU packages. All you need to do is properly install the CPU and put on the Heatsink/Fan correctly. Secondly, if you are NOT overclocking, don't worry about it. If you live in a very hot climate, then you may want to consider getting some Arctic Silver 5.
February 20, 2006 6:28:28 PM

Quote:
First, it isn't "glue". It is usually thermal tape that is pre-applied to retail CPU packages. All you need to do is properly install the CPU and put on the Heatsink/Fan correctly. Secondly, if you are NOT overclocking, don't worry about it. If you live in a very hot climate, then you may want to consider getting some Arctic Silver 5.


Well it is Thermal GREASE i.e. Shin Etsu not tape.

Should you use anything else you voided your Warranty!

Silver Arctic is prohibited on AMD processors as it would definitively destroy the CPU warranty.

Do not recommend what manufacturer of CPU prohibits!

Arctic Silver 5
Related resources
February 20, 2006 6:44:45 PM

i am not sure if that glue is good i would suppose so.but if you are going to serously OC then you might concider going with a opty since they run cooler and are easier to OC
February 20, 2006 6:54:38 PM

ok so if i use the greece/glue that comes in the box, can i later remove the heatsink and fan and replace? will it be easy to remove it?
February 20, 2006 7:03:27 PM

yeah use isopropyl alcohol, it will be pretty easy to remove. especially on processors with a heat spreader (ie, basically any processor on the market right now). it was a lot harder on older ones like my athlon xp
February 20, 2006 7:26:17 PM

if i just use the one that comes in the box, how much will i be able to overclock it and still have it stable?
February 22, 2006 4:49:47 AM

Uhm...I reccomend what I use as well as what is the BEST performing thermal grease out there. I have been using Arctic Silver 5 for a couple years now on an OLD ATHLON XP-M!!!! I HAVE HAD NO ISSUES AT ALL!
February 22, 2006 4:51:45 AM

It also depends on your case. I hope you bought one with 120mm cooling fans. I have a Tsunami case and it stays nice and cool, exhausting hot air away from the CPU and MB.
February 22, 2006 12:47:31 PM

i just got the Antec P-180. it comes with 3 fans. one on top, one in the back and one blowing air on the PSU i guess.

Quote:
It also depends on your case. I hope you bought one with 120mm cooling fans. I have a Tsunami case and it stays nice and cool, exhausting hot air away from the CPU and MB.
February 22, 2006 2:59:44 PM

Quote:
First, it isn't "glue". It is usually thermal tape that is pre-applied to retail CPU packages. All you need to do is properly install the CPU and put on the Heatsink/Fan correctly. Secondly, if you are NOT overclocking, don't worry about it. If you live in a very hot climate, then you may want to consider getting some Arctic Silver 5.


Well it is Thermal GREASE i.e. Shin Etsu not tape.:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

You guys are funny. And I believe both wrong. To my knowledge what comes on the processor is just a direct application of a phase change material. (A phase change material is solid when cold, and melts into the liquid needed to fill the gaps when it warms up.) It's generally called a thermal pad.

Last I knew it was not post-production application of an adhesive tape. Further, thermal tape is actually a generic term simply meaning any conductive material in a strip form with an adhesive on one at least one side. By the way, most thermal tapes are pure solids, often just a strip of aluminum or copper. Phase change tape is relatively rare by comparison.

And it's most definately not a grease. Grease is not a phase change material. Grease is always in liquid form. Last I knew AMD had a strong disliking any use of grease.

Quote:
Should you use anything else you voided your Warranty!
This didn't use to be the case. AMD required the retail HSF, but was still allowing you to use your own thermal interface material (TIM). I know that they were contemplating the requirement of a phase-change material and outlawing all grease, but to my knowledge, they never actually made that warranty change. But then I haven't read a retail warranty from AMD recently. So has this actually changed now? Does the warranty actually require a specific TIM now? Do you have a link to AMD's retail warranty to show this?
February 22, 2006 3:19:30 PM

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/...

There is AMD's warranty details. It doesn't anything about using Arctic Silver. It fact it doesn't mention anything at all about thermal grease or paste.

Do some research before posting wreckless statements like "USING ARCTIC SILVER WILL VOID YOUR AMD WARRANTY."

Cause it doesn't.
;-p

-mpjesse
February 22, 2006 3:19:49 PM

Quote:
You guys are funny. And I believe both wrong. To my knowledge what comes on the processor is just a direct application of a phase change material. (A phase change material is solid when cold, and melts into the liquid needed to fill the gaps when it warms up.) It's generally called a thermal pad.


Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner, except thermal pads don't come on the processor, they come on retail heatsinks.

To the original poster:

I recommend that you:
A) Use the stock thermal pad that comes with the heatsink/proc
B) Do not overclock

If you want to deviate from the suggestions I have outlined I recommend you do a lot of research (don't ask on boards, this information is everywhere) on overclocking and custom cooling solutions.
February 22, 2006 3:22:48 PM

I agree that the glue is wrong..

The pad is attached to a retail heatsink..

However I agree that the thermal compound is a Silicone GREASE used for heatsinks, which I've used for years.

AS5 is exactly the same thing however. Its using a different technique to transfer heat, from metal particals and a type of bonding, that cures in 200 hours.

Thermal Compound - Encyclopedia
February 22, 2006 3:25:03 PM

Quote:
except thermal pads doesn't come on the processor, they come on retail heatsinks.
OMG! Not only are you right, but I knew that. :lol:  I can't believe I screwed that up. Oh well. No one's perfect. :oops:  Thanks for pointing it ou. :)  I'd correct it, but it's just too funny, being so ironic and all. :wink:
February 22, 2006 3:26:40 PM

This is thermal tape:

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Pieces-of-Sekisui-Double-Sided-Th...

Thermal tape permanently bonds two things together (like a heatsink and chip). What is on AMD heatsinks are Thermal Pads (like slvr said). Thermal pads are designed so you can remove the heatsink.

Never use thermal tape on a cpu- unless you plan to never remove the heatsink.

-mpjesse
February 22, 2006 3:34:07 PM

If you are not overclocking, don't worry about it. Just put the stock Fan+heatsink on your processor, the thermal "goo" (to use a non technical tearm) is already on there. The stock Fan+heatsink AMD provides on the X2 series is really nice (in my opinion the best stock Fan+heatsink ever) it will keep your processor cool and even allow to do some mild overclocking (200MHz). I'm not big into overclocking, my stock cooler on my 4400+ is just fine for me, should be fine for you if you are not overclocking. If you are overclocking that's when you have to worry about thermal "goo" (AS, paste, whatever...), consult the overclocking forum on cooling for that.
February 22, 2006 3:34:58 PM

Quote:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/...

There is AMD's warranty details. It doesn't anything about using Arctic Silver. It fact it doesn't mention anything at all about thermal grease or paste.
That's what I thought. :)  Thanks for providing the proof. I'm too lazy to find it myself. Heh heh.

But yeah, I know AMD had this huge hard on for phase change material and was talking about banning grease, but I didn't think they'd ever have the balls to piss off enthusiasts that much.

I'm surprised that after all this time they're even still sticking to the whole retail warranty is void if you use a 3rd party heatsink thing. I've always hated that.

The 3rd party HSF retail warranty clause has always been one real benefit of Intel over AMD that has meant something to me. (Unless Intel has changed their retail warranty recently?)
February 22, 2006 3:36:28 PM

Quote:
Never use thermal tape on a cpu- unless you plan to never remove the heatsink.
And even then, use thermal epoxy instead. :wink:

Although I do believe that there are some (expensive) thermal tapes made of phase change material that have adhesive on one side only that are typically marketted at system builders that go with OEM procs and 3rd party HSFs who don't like to mess with grease. :) 
February 22, 2006 3:38:39 PM

But but but... wat about Velveeta cheese?? I read something about cheese somewhere... oh nm. :oops: 
February 22, 2006 3:41:54 PM

Quote:
But but but... wat about Velveeta cheese?? I read something about cheese somewhere... oh nm. :oops: 
The funny thing is that Velveeta cheese might even make a fairly good TIM. It's a phase change material with a low melting point. The questions would be: 1) How thermally conductive is cheese? 2) What's Velveeta's burning point? :lol: 
February 22, 2006 9:39:30 PM

Quote:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/...

There is AMD's warranty details. It doesn't anything about using Arctic Silver. It fact it doesn't mention anything at all about thermal grease or paste.



Quote:
Three (3) Year Processor In A Box Limited Warranty


AMD warrants that processors sold through the AMD Processor in a Box Program, which have a "qualifying" serial number, when properly installed and used, will be free from defects in material and workmanship and will substantially conform to AMD's publicly available specifications for a period of three (3) years after the date the AMD processor was purchased.

If the AMD processor which is the subject of this Limited Warranty fails during the warranty period for reasons covered by this Limited Warranty, AMD, at its sole option, will: (1) repair the AMD processor by means of hardware and/or software; (2) replace the AMD processor with another AMD processor of equal or greater performance, OR, (3) if AMD is unable to repair or replace the AMD processor, refund the then-current value of the AMD processor.



It said it all!
You need to pay attention to very precise legal language!


The warranty are written as always in general terms, and refer to misissue and abuse of all products. This covers always improper installation and application.

The warranty by nature DOESN'T specify any or all brands, uses a standard general warranty legal language and some reservations. The final decision on warranty issues is in hands of AMD (sole option) and not yours.

All Warranties in US are also suplemanted by a Federal Warranty Act known as Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. (The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is the federal law that governs consumer product warranties.)

Quote:


Do some research before posting wreckless statements like "USING ARCTIC SILVER WILL VOID YOUR AMD WARRANTY."

Cause it doesn't.
;-p

-mpjesse


Well I did and I also I dealt with AMD in person over the phone.

The warranty DOES not have to be specific, it falls in to misapplication, negligence and abuse!


Now when using Arctic Silver the warranty by using NOT approved by AMD product is void by AMD (not approved interface material), and unless Arctic Silver would provide the warranty under their product applications you are out of luck.

Non compliance with AMD installation manuals and recommendations which would be referred during warranty claims VOIDS the warranty.

The most common reason cited by AMD is that hardened surface of Arctic Silver might result in damage to processor when removing the processor by force, this includes also bent, or broken pins.

May I suggest that you call AMD technical support @ (408) 749-3060 and discuss with them the issue of warranty?

the installation "white papers" are available on AMD web site.

i.e tech cocumentation

13. Inspect the thermal interface material on the bottom of the heatsink for scratches The heatsink has a thermal interface material pre-applied on the bottom. This material protected by a plastic cover. (See Figure 12.)
Do not use the thermal interface material if it has scratches or gaps. If replacement interface material is needed, contact AMD technical support for assistance at
http://ask.amd.com or (408) 749-3060.

In EMEA, please contact AMD technical
assistance at http://www.amd.com/support .
If a heatsink is removed for any reason, clean the processor and heatsink surface an AMD-approved thermal interface material before reinstalling the processor.


builders data


Caution: The processor will overheat and fail if the heatsink is not installed so that it sits parallel to the top of the processor, or if the heatsink touches any part of the socket itself. This may result in permanent damage to the processor.

Completing System Assembly

Follow the instructions for mounting the motherboard with processor into the case, as outlined in the case literature.

On the AMD website, there are general instructions on how to build a system. To review these instructions go to:
http://www.amd.com/products/cpg/athlon-duron/howtobuild...
For system cooling guidelines (case characteristics to look for, airflow patterns, where cooling fans should be installed, etc.), go to:
http://www.amd.com/products/cpg/athlon-duron/pdf/coolin...

If You Need Help

For technical assistance with the installation of your new processor, or for technical questions about its operation, the E-mail addresses and technical support phone numbers can be found on our support website at the following URL:
http://www.amd.com/support/support.html

Returns
Whenever possible, please return both the failed processor and attached heatsink to your vender. Having both components allows the AMD engineers to more fully diagnose any problems.


I did and I was told over the phone by the MANAGER of AMD Technical Support prior to RMA that use of other than stock heat sink and fan as well as use on NOT APPROVED by AMD thermal interface materials (Shin Etsu MicroSi’s G765, Shin-Etsu MicroSi’s G-751 or better ) will VOID the warranty on processor, subject to AMD (sole option) discretion.

The reason I called was that after the failure of system, damage to heat sink, replacement of heat sink, I RMA CPU and knowing AMD policies I wanted to obtain or to purchase additional thermal grease (shin etsu G-765 or other as required by AMD) from AMD, otherwise not available locally.

Same applies to overclocking of processors which is covered under the warranty as "negligence or abuse" by the user.

The decision will be only AMD RMA department decision with no right to appeal, unless you are willing to sue on substantial evidence of "defects in material and workmanship" what is very unlikely.
You are only depending on AMD so called "Good Faith".

If you use CPU without a fan (even accidental) or fry CPU when overclocking AMD would NOT replace the CPU!

AMD also recommends that the installation be performed "ONLY" by the experts only, whatever it means.


Interface Materials

The interface material used between the heatsink and
processor is important. The purpose of this material is to fill any microscopic air gaps and ensure a thermally efficient path is established for heat to flow from the package into the heatsink.
There are several different types of thermally conductive
interface material in use today. The most common are grease, wax, thermal pads/tapes, and epoxy. While dry interfaces (pads and tapes) are often the easiest to use, they have the poorest thermal resistance. They are not recommended because small pockets of air can be trapped during installation. Wet or paste interfaces (grease, gel, wax, and epoxy) have lower thermal resistances and allow air bubbles to migrate out of the interface material.

Although epoxy, when handled correctly, can provide a
reasonable thermal interface, it is not a reliable mechanical attachment. Caution should also be taken with pre-applied trapped beneath the heatsink during assembly. AMD recommends the use of grease and gels as thermal interfaces.

These materials are able to maintain the lowest thermal
resistance more consistently. In general, these materials can
achieve a thermal resistance of 0.15 to 0.3°C/W.

The application of interface material, in addition to material
type, is also important. Its purpose is simply to fill microscopic air gaps and ensure a thermally efficient path for heat transfer.

Only a thin layer of interface material is desired between the
heatsink and processor. Excessive amounts of interface
material will restrict the flow of heat to the heatsink and
thereby make the thermal solution less effective.

Due to the light weight of most heatsinks, mechanical clips are the recommended method of attachment. In addition to
providing stability, clips provide approximately 10–15 pounds
of downward pressure on the heatsink to minimize the thermal resistance of the thermal interface material.



Lets not argue about what I do now and what you are taking for granted.

And as far as you do have an extensive knowledge it doesn't mean that my knowledge is lesser than yours, in deed I might know a little more than you think.

You DO NOT know my background, so be very carefull when you adress me.

AMD has several instructional VIDEOS which discuss the issue of applications and installations.

Here are some of their Videos:

Full video

Processor Install

Heat Sink Install

Heat Sink Removal

Cleaning after Heat Sink Removal

There are thosands of documents which discuss the aplications, methods and materials covered and recommended by the manufacturer. Such can ALWAYS be cited when AMD will not want to pay for your negligence.

Are you by chance suggesting that should you fry CPU when overclocking AMD warranty will cover
your negligence?

Notice that AMD does not recommend any liquids (i.e. alcohol) to clean thermal grease. You might however use fluid such as (only BUTHANE, or degreasing LIQUID GASES) wich evaporates with no residue and does not penetrate the chip.

So please GIVE me the credit for what i know and what I said and do not credit yourself with hear say or speculations.

Believe me that I do have a lot more practical experience in dealing with those issues than you!

The youth, theories and lack of experience is not a substitute for knowledge and practical experience.

You might look on http://www.amd.com for video on thermal interface materials if you still have some objections.
February 22, 2006 10:21:34 PM

Quote:
yeah use isopropyl alcohol, it will be pretty easy to remove. especially on processors with a heat spreader (ie, basically any processor on the market right now). it was a lot harder on older ones like my athlon xp


Wrong!

Alcohol is or might be mixed with water, and might damage processor.

AMD video

The only liquid (fluid) recommended is a BUTHANE gas (lighter fluid) as it evaporates with no residues.
However it is highly flammable and must be used in well ventilated work stations.
February 22, 2006 10:32:30 PM

So Artic Silver 5's instructions are wrong when removing a thermal pad?

Thermal pads can be scraped off with a plastic tool that will not scratch the bottom then the remnants can be removed with a xylene based cleaner, (Goof Off and some carburetor cleaners) acetone, mineral spirits, or high-purity isopropyl alcohol.

8O My pentium... my poor poor pentium...

Oh nm.. you guys are talking about AMD... Whooo.. I feel better.
February 22, 2006 10:33:03 PM

Quote:
Uhm...I reccomend what I use as well as what is the BEST performing thermal grease out there. I have been using Arctic Silver 5 for a couple years now on an OLD ATHLON XP-M!!!! I HAVE HAD NO ISSUES AT ALL!




Actually .
Arctic Silver 5is not thermal grease as it contains solid materials (Arctic Silver 5 contains over 88% thermally Conductive filler by weight. In addition to micronized silver, Arctic Silver 5 also contains sub-micron zinc oxide, aluminum oxide and boron nitride particles), it is what could be called heat conductive phase change material containing high-density filling of micronized silver and enhanced thermally conductive ceramic particles in a mixture of advanced polysynthetic oils.


Arctic Silver 5 was formulated to conduct heat, not electricity.

While much safer than electrically conductive silver and copper greases, Arctic Silver 5 should be kept away from electrical traces, pins, and leads. While it is not electrically conductive, the compound is very slightly capacitive and could potentially cause problems if it bridges two close-proximity electrical paths.
February 22, 2006 10:39:41 PM

Wow. You have a lot of time on your hands. And all for naught.

Quote:
Believe me that I do have a lot more practical experience in dealing with those issues than you!


Isn't that a little hippocritical when in the same post you said this:

Quote:
And as far as you do have an extensive knowledge it doesn't mean that my knowledge is lesser than yours, in deed I might know a little more than you think.

You DO NOT know my background, so be very carefull when you adress me.


Do you know my background? I don't question your background, I question your reasoning and intepretations.

And nothing in your lengthly post specifically says "using 3rd party thermal paste voids the warranty." And yes, you're right, AMD could refuse to the honor the warranty if they think you're actions were reckless. However, in my 15+ combined years of dealing with both AMD and Intel, they have never refused to replace any of my CPU's based on the fact that I had 3rd party thermal paste (always arctic silver) on the damaged CPU. I've replaced 2 processors in the past 5 years. One was intel and one was AMD. I never bothered to try and cover up or remove the fact that I was using Acrtic Silver. And guess what? They still replaced my CPU's. Previous to that I was a tech at a large computer chain based in Seattle. We bought all our CPU's in OEM trays direct from Intel and used our own cheap thermal paste. Intel never had a problem replacing our CPU's if they were bad or went bad.

And I never said AMD would replace anyone's CPU if they're overclocking. However, while we're on the topic, proving that someone was overclocking is extremely hard unless the chip is literally fried- which very rarely happens (i.e., the capacitors on the bottom of the CPU are BLACK or the die is brown). For all they know there was a power surge or the PSU flipped out. I doubt AMD has the time or patience to sit there and frigin run tests on the returned CPU. I've never personally fried a CPU from overclocking, but I've had plenty of friends that have and they had ZERO problems getting it replaced.

So chill out. Using Arctic Silver won't void the damned warranty no matter how much you say so or want to believe.

This is frigin enthusiast site. People around here don't care if they void the warranty. So take your AMD warranty interpretations and scream them in the AMD forums.

-mpjesse
February 22, 2006 10:45:14 PM

Soo.. sooo.. sooo

Would it be safe to underclock and use.. veleeta cheese as a paste?

Oh nm.. I'm going to bed now.
February 22, 2006 10:47:02 PM

LOL. Maybe if it was white cheese. ;-)
February 22, 2006 10:48:03 PM

Quote:


And it's most definately not a grease. Grease is not a phase change material. Grease is always in liquid form. Last I knew AMD had a strong disliking any use of grease.



Well I just believe that you reinvented a grease.

thermal grease Shin Etsu

Grease might be in fluid or solid state, it all depend on viscosity, fillers and of course temperature and drip or metling point.

"Grease is a lubricant of higher initial viscosity than oil, consisting originally of a calcium, sodium or lithium soap jelly emulsified with mineral oil. Greases are a type of shear thinning or pseudo-plastic fluid, which means that the viscosity of the fluid is reduced under shear. After sufficient force to shear the grease has been applied, the viscocity drops and approaches that of the base mineral oil (or that of the EP additive for EP greases under heavy load). This sudden drop in shear force means that grease is considered a plastic fluid, and the reduction of shear force with time makes it thixotropic.

Greases are employed where heavy pressures exist, where oil drip from the bearings is undesirable, and/or where the motions of the contacting surfaces is discontinuous so that it is difficult to maintain a separating lubricant film in the bearing. Grease-lubricated bearings have greater frictional characteristics at the beginning of operation, causing a temperature rise which tends to melt the grease and give the effect of an oil-lubricated bearing. Calcium and sodium base greases are the most commonly used; sodium base greases have higher melting point than calcium base greases but are not resistant to the action of water. Lithium based grease has a drip temperature at 350° to 400°F and it resists moisture hence it is commonly used as lubricant in household products such as garage door openers. Graphite, either by itself or mixed with grease, is also employed as a lubricant. Teflon is added to some greases to improve on the lubricating property. Gear greases consist of rosin oil, thickened with lime and mixed with mineral oil, with some percentage of water. Special purpose greases contain glycerol and sorbitan esters. They are used, for example, in low-temperature conditions.

Some greases are labeled "EP", which indicates "extreme pressure". Under high pressure or shock loading, normal grease can be compressed to the extent that the greased parts come into physical contact, causing friction and wear. EP grease contains solid lubricants, usually graphite and/or moly, to provide protection under heavy loadings. The solid lubricants bond to the surface of the metal, and prevent metal to metal contact and the resulting friction and wear when the lubricant film gets too thin."


"This should not be confused with conventional phase change pads melt each time they get hot then re-solidify when they cool."



What AMD is using and recommending is Thermal Grease and not phase change material.
February 22, 2006 10:58:57 PM

Quote:
So Artic Silver 5's instructions are wrong when removing a thermal pad?


From the point of CPU and electronic circuits "YES" it is wrong!

They are selling thermal conductivity enhancement materials and not processors!

Alcohol is "water based" degreaser.

listen to AMD Video!

Pay attention to Cleaning after removal avoid WET Chemicals such as acetone or alcohol.


Cleaning after Heat Sink Removal

thermal grease Shin Etsu
February 22, 2006 11:00:02 PM

What is that "Warranty" thing that you speak of ?

Is is related to that useless heat spreader that I popped off my CPU ?

February 22, 2006 11:27:19 PM

Quote:
Wow. You have a lot of time on your hands. And all for naught.

Believe me that I do have a lot more practical experience in dealing with those issues than you!


Isn't that a little hippocritical when in the same post you said this:

Quote:
And as far as you do have an extensive knowledge it doesn't mean that my knowledge is lesser than yours, in deed I might know a little more than you think.

You DO NOT know my background, so be very carefull when you adress me.


Do you know my background? I don't question your background, I question your reasoning and intepretations.

And nothing in your lengthly post specifically says "using 3rd party thermal paste voids the warranty." And yes, you're right, AMD could refuse to the honor the warranty if they think you're actions were reckless. However, in my 15+ combined years of dealing with both AMD and Intel, they have never refused to replace any of my CPU's based on the fact that I had 3rd party thermal paste (always arctic silver) on the damaged CPU. I've replaced 2 processors in the past 5 years. One was intel and one was AMD. I never bothered to try and cover up or remove the fact that I was using Acrtic Silver. And guess what? They still replaced my CPU's. Previous to that I was a tech at a large computer chain based in Seattle. We bought all our CPU's in OEM trays direct from Intel and used our own cheap thermal paste. Intel never had a problem replacing our CPU's if they were bad or went bad.

And I never said AMD would replace anyone's CPU if they're overclocking. However, while we're on the topic, proving that someone was overclocking is extremely hard unless the chip is literally fried- which very rarely happens (i.e., the capacitors on the bottom of the CPU are BLACK or the die is brown). For all they know there was a power surge or the PSU flipped out. I doubt AMD has the time or patience to sit there and frigin run tests on the returned CPU. I've never personally fried a CPU from overclocking, but I've had plenty of friends that have and they had ZERO problems getting it replaced.

So chill out. Using Arctic Silver won't void the damned warranty no matter how much you say so or want to believe.

This is frigin enthusiast site. People around here don't care if they void the warranty. So take your AMD warranty interpretations and scream them in the AMD forums.

-mpjesse

I have no intention to bid my qualifications against yours as you are even not to my toe nails. I used to hire and very quickly fire people and some not because lack of qualifications but mainly due to their .... attitude .. creating counter productive environment, and atmosphere.

Well you have only 15 years experience.
You are acting on arrogance and self assurance, but you might trip yourself and land flat on your arse!

It is a lot easier to prove overclocking that you believe, manufacturer would stand by their product and rarely would spent money on prosecuting overclockers, rather will try to find reasons for failure with target on improving their process.

It is also sufficient if one wants to claim by AMD that static electricity when you handled processor damaged that processor, and it is up to you to prove otherwise

The fact that AMD replaced your damaged CPU is known as "GOOD FAITH", but they have had no obligation to do so, should they really didn't wanted. It is not a charitable organization.

Keep in mind that failure of other equipment causing the damage is also not covered under warranty.

I had a blown CPU due to Power Supply failure, and laptop was fried, and because it was a "set" the manufacturer was required to replace the laptop.

I am trying to be polite with you ... so I do expect same from you.
February 22, 2006 11:47:53 PM

Your long winded lecture about warranty and the whitepaper quotes that you dug out won't impress anyone here, jesse won.

Fact is, hardware enthusiasts don't care, we push hardware beyond the manufacturer's enveloppe and know full well that we forfeit the warranty in doing so.

If you think that we're being unresoneable, mean and elitist, I dare you to post that stuff on XtremeSystems.
February 23, 2006 12:08:07 AM

Quote:
Your long winded lecture about warranty and the whitepaper quotes that you dug out won't impress anyone here, jesse won.

Fact is, hardware enthusiasts don't care, we push hardware beyond the manufacturer's enveloppe and know full well that we forfeit the warranty in doing so.

If you think that we're being unresoneable, mean and elitist, I dare you to post that stuff on XtremeSystems.


Why should I care?

It is your money not mine!

Just don't cry that you fried your ass allso.




If you really want to vent yourself, use your a$$hole, as I have no intention to troll with you!
February 23, 2006 12:14:26 AM

someone with an old POS pentium should use Velveeta as a thermal compound. I'm really curious if it would work.
February 23, 2006 12:27:42 AM

Quote:
Well you have only 15 years experience.
You are acting on arrogance and self assurance, but you might trip yourself and land flat on your arse!


Quote:
I have no intention to bid my qualifications against yours as you are even not to my toe nails. I used to hire and very quickly fire people and some not because lack of qualifications but mainly due to their .... attitude .. creating counter productive environment, and atmosphere.



Wow... and you call me the arrogant one? Whatever man. For the record, my occupation is NOT computers; it's my hobby.

So have fun with your rantings out in the middle of Iowa. I'm sure you're one of those old crazy dudes who owns some crap local computer store that charges ridiculous prices for things like zip ties and jumpers. I used to work for a guy like that. Make no mistake, he was very wise and knowledgable. However, his arrogance often made him look like an ass more than anything.

You're type of arrogance won't bode well in this environment. We're a group of young bucks who think they know everything (I'm sure that's what you think of us anyways). There's no room for old know it alls like you. (exceptions: RichPLS, Crashman, and a couple others)

Muahaha...

-mpjesse
February 23, 2006 12:37:32 AM

Bolding your posts won't prove your point any further, same goes for your reference about my digestive tract or me sheding tears over the remote possibility of fried hardware.

You can wave those hypothetical years of experience in a 10 pages post or blog your little heart out for all I care, it won't make me sympathetic to your crusade against proven and widely used thermal interface materials and alternative cooling methods.

You get your kick from digging through whitepapers and quoting legalese, I get mine from getting the most out of my hardware, the only difference is that you are throwing a fit over insignificant details.

Go crawl back under your rock...
February 23, 2006 12:48:41 AM

Quote:
But but but... wat about Velveeta cheese?? I read something about cheese somewhere... oh nm. :oops: 
The funny thing is that Velveeta cheese might even make a fairly good TIM. It's a phase change material with a low melting point. The questions would be: 1) How thermally conductive is cheese? 2) What's Velveeta's burning point? :lol: 

Ok now I'm hungry for grilled cheese. :p 
February 23, 2006 12:55:04 AM

/me taps his fingers together like mr. burns

Just for sh*ts and giggles I might conduct such a test. I've got plenty of old Athlon XP's laying around. It would make a fun article.

-mpjesse
February 23, 2006 2:23:40 AM

ok, but hold the thermal grease! :lol: 
February 23, 2006 2:32:21 AM

Awww come on. It's loaded with aluminum- a necessary nutrient.

BTW, I contacted Omid about doing an article on "the thermal conductivity of cheese." I'll let you know if he's interested in publishing this completely absurd idea.

;-)

-mpjesse
February 23, 2006 2:50:47 AM

Quote:
Awww come on. It's loaded with aluminum- a necessary nutrient.

BTW, I contacted Omid about doing an article on "the thermal conductivity of cheese." I'll let you know if he's interested in publishing this completely absurd idea.

;-)

-mpjesse


More likely to be published than a pontificate about the impact of thermal interface on manufacturer's warranties.

:lol: 
February 23, 2006 3:45:38 AM

True. People like to read completely stupid things. That's where I step in... hehe.

-mpjesse
February 23, 2006 4:11:13 AM

Quote:
Well you have only 15 years experience.
You are acting on arrogance and self assurance, but you might trip yourself and land flat on your arse!


Quote:
I have no intention to bid my qualifications against yours as you are even not to my toe nails. I used to hire and very quickly fire people and some not because lack of qualifications but mainly due to their .... attitude .. creating counter productive environment, and atmosphere.


Wow... and you call me the arrogant one? Whatever man. For the record, my occupation is NOT computers; it's my hobby.

So have fun with your rantings out in the middle of Iowa. I'm sure you're one of those old crazy dudes who owns some crap local computer store that charges ridiculous prices for things like zip ties and jumpers. I used to work for a guy like that. Make no mistake, he was very wise and knowledgable. However, his arrogance often made him look like an ass more than anything.

You're type of arrogance won't bode well in this environment. We're a group of young bucks who think they know everything (I'm sure that's what you think of us anyways). There's no room for old know it alls like you. (exceptions: RichPLS, Crashman, and a couple others)

Muahaha...

-mpjesse

My occupation also is not computers, but because of my financial interests I have to be on the peak of information technology.

You are acting as you know it all, a wise person know that knows nothing and is willing to learn at all time.
There is a common knowledge that every one has an a$$hole, but why you are trying to prove to me that you are one?
It is a free country and every one can use any soap he wants, you might use a velveeta cheese instead if that pleases you, and I don't care - it is not my money.

When you are wrong, as you are beyond reasobable doubt, you should conceive it that you are wrong, instead of dicking around and calling your heard of bucks for support. Your beautiful crown might end up on the wall above the "Port Cochere" in local hunting outlet faster than you think.
You have the right to make fool of yourself but for sure not at others cost. Being smart a$$ will allow you survive for a while, but once you fall on your a$$ no on will give you a hand to help you get up.

As I told you I am not interested with your RESUME and I have NO intention to discuss with you mine, I am not applying for a job, you can not afford me any way!

However, if you are enjoing in the middle of potatoe field in Iowa to suffer from AIDS (Acquired Intelligence Defficiency Syndrome) it doesn't mean I have to!
I do prefer wormer climates were people are able to use their gray cells for the benefit of all, and not just own inflated ego.

Well for sure you are young buck who apparently think that circumsision and castration is the same thing. Apparently you were castrated few years after you were circumsized, so it really doesn't matter in your case.
Learn one thing, never shit higher than your ass as you might have souer taste in your mouth at all time.
February 23, 2006 4:28:46 AM

Quote:
As I told you I am not interested with your RESUME and I have NO intention to discuss with you mine, I am not applying for a job, you can not afford me any way!


LOL. You're a legend in your own mind- I can't beat that. And yes I'm an asshole. The difference between me and you is that you do not realize you too are an asshole. LOL. I'm done trading threads with you.

Good luck to you and all your endeavors. I wish you much financial success and lots of naked women!

Sincerely,

-mpjesse
February 23, 2006 4:36:50 AM

Quote:
First, it isn't "glue". It is usually thermal tape that is pre-applied to retail CPU packages. All you need to do is properly install the CPU and put on the Heatsink/Fan correctly. Secondly, if you are NOT overclocking, don't worry about it. If you live in a very hot climate, then you may want to consider getting some Arctic Silver 5.


Well it is Thermal GREASE i.e. Shin Etsu not tape.:lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

You guys are funny. And I believe both wrong. To my knowledge what comes on the processor is just a direct application of a phase change material. (A phase change material is solid when cold, and melts into the liquid needed to fill the gaps when it warms up.) It's generally called a thermal pad.

Last I knew it was not post-production application of an adhesive tape. Further, thermal tape is actually a generic term simply meaning any conductive material in a strip form with an adhesive on one at least one side. By the way, most thermal tapes are pure solids, often just a strip of aluminum or copper. Phase change tape is relatively rare by comparison.

And it's most definately not a grease. Grease is not a phase change material. Grease is always in liquid form. Last I knew AMD had a strong disliking any use of grease.

Quote:
Should you use anything else you voided your Warranty!
This didn't use to be the case. AMD required the retail HSF, but was still allowing you to use your own thermal interface material (TIM). I know that they were contemplating the requirement of a phase-change material and outlawing all grease, but to my knowledge, they never actually made that warranty change. But then I haven't read a retail warranty from AMD recently. So has this actually changed now? Does the warranty actually require a specific TIM now? Do you have a link to AMD's retail warranty to show this?

i don't understand about all these discussion with warranty:

OVERCLOCKING VOIDS YOUR WARRANTY REGARDLESS!

y worry about ur warranty while u r going to do something that's fundamentally going to void it??

so velocci don't worry about what all these ppl say - if u r prepare to OC ur rig then u r on ur own - at ur risk. so best to read around and learn all about it first. could be a daunting experience i admit, but it's sooooooo much fun:-).
February 23, 2006 4:40:56 AM

Quote:
OVERCLOCKING VOIDS YOUR WARRANTY REGARDLESS!


There's an increasing trend with video card manufacturers to cover damage incurred by overclocking. In fact eVGA's warranty policy already COVERS overclocking. BFG and XFX are also going this way from what I hear...

-mpjesse
February 23, 2006 4:47:43 AM

yes buddy but we r talking about CPUs here:-D.

powerful graphics cards aim at enthusiasts who obviously know what they r doing and what they want, so it's logical to do it. i don't see how ur average Joe will splash $600+ on a graphics card.

but CPUs on that other hand, even ur average Joe needs it:D .
February 23, 2006 6:47:16 AM

Quote:
As I told you I am not interested with your RESUME and I have NO intention to discuss with you mine, I am not applying for a job, you can not afford me any way!


LOL. You're a legend in your own mind- I can't beat that. And yes I'm an *******. The difference between me and you is that you do not realize you too are an *******. LOL. I'm done trading threads with you.

Good luck to you and all your endeavors. I wish you much financial success and lots of naked women!

Sincerely,

-mpjesse

Thanks, about TIME!

Finaly you found out that I am already a legend ... may be not only in my mind.

Well learn to MYOB!

I LOVE NAKED WOMEN, THE BEAUTY IS WITHIN!
February 23, 2006 6:53:42 AM

Quote:
yes buddy but we r talking about CPUs here:-D.

powerful graphics cards aim at enthusiasts who obviously know what they r doing and what they want, so it's logical to do it. i don't see how ur average Joe will splash $600+ on a graphics card.

but CPUs on that other hand, even ur average Joe needs it:D .



I might choose a Porsche but I doubt I would buy U$ 600.00 graphic card which after a year would sell for a dime on a buck!

Well some people are so concentrated on the target of their toughts that are drifting from the subject of:

"thermal glue for the Athlon 64 x2 3800" to young bucks overclocking VIDEO cards and still argue of tangent about their supremacy, like kin heads! with the "white power".

I guess thinking of velveeta cheese you can fry a lot of electrons. :) 
!