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Tom's Looks At AM2

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February 20, 2006 4:54:14 PM

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/02/20/toms_hardware_amd2_pr...

I hope they don't think those will be credible benchmarks, given the fact those are probably not the most stable samples and the motherboard they're going to use is probably even less stable.

"With current DDR2-667 memory, very little improvement should be expected as the integrated memory controller suffers from relaxed memory timings." - Haven't we already established the fact that the IMC on the A64 doesn't suffer from high latency RAM? And Haven't I seen 3-3-3-12 DDR2 667? Good Enough For Me That's just as good as a overclocked DDR1 module. At These Clock Speeds those are some low timings for that fast of RAM.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

More about : tom am2

February 20, 2006 10:06:22 PM

Relax son. AMD wouldn't have given THG an engineering sample if they didn't think the benchmarks would be relevant.

What they show in the article should be pretty much in line with what they release.

-mpjesse
February 20, 2006 10:12:26 PM

oh god i cant wait!
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February 20, 2006 10:19:41 PM

Quote:
Relax son. AMD wouldn't have given THG an engineering sample if they didn't think the benchmarks would be relevant.

What they show in the article should be pretty much in line with what they release.

-mpjesse


Obviously buddy, you didn't read my post. Regardless of how well stable those chips are, I can severely doubt the motherboard they use will have anything to say for the mobo's released at launch.

Thanks anyways...son

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 20, 2006 10:59:32 PM

I agree with Mike about the motherboard part. When the AM2 does come out though we will see improvements in motherboards. Its always the same when somehting first comes out its not going to be as good as it gets. I mean look at how long it took for SLI 16x16 took to come out. Bottom line is these benchmarks will be minimal score and will only get better as time goes on.
Im really excited to see what AMD has to offer though. I feel like a giggling school girl waiting for the results.
February 21, 2006 12:55:01 AM

In this case I don't think there would be much difference in performance between the motherboard THG will use and the final production boards. With the OMC on the processor itself there really isn't much left on the motherboard that can have a large effect on performance. Granted SATA controllers and the PCIe controllers are important, but not as much as the memory controller. In fact, since the core architecture is still the same with the major change being the memory controller which motherboard makers don't need to worry about, Socket AM2 processors will be using existing chipsets. They will only change the mounting cage and swap DDR2 slots, neither physical part will effect performance.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29414

Quote:
THE AMD socket M2/AM2 based motherboards aren't likely to cost very much more than existing sockets. AMD advised its motherboard parners that the new motherboards will cost them only a little bit more. Socket vendors can make those sockets with small tooling changes to existing Socket 939 and should keep the cost to N almost equivalent level.

With already mature chipset and motherboard designs being used there isn't much that is beta about these early boards, so final production performance won't change much.
February 21, 2006 1:25:59 AM

UGH WHY WONT THEY PUT IT UP NOW!!!! Man i want to see these results so bad. I wish AMD would've sent them the FX-62
February 21, 2006 1:28:34 AM

I don't believe anything from The Inquirer,

With that said, these first tests I still say will not be the max performance that AM2 is, if Tom's says "AM2 seems to perform below s939" I will lose all respect for Tom's already Intel-Biased selves.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 21, 2006 3:23:32 AM

Umm, I did read your post. And FYI, Socket AM2 motherboards have been floating around in Asia for months now. AM2 has pretty much been finalized for quite a while now. The major mobo manufacturers have already had a few months to work on AM2 boards. What hasn't been finalized are the processors. There's a big frikin difference there. The reason AMD is sitting on AM2 is because they don't need to release it. AMD is still competing very, very well against Intel in terms of technology. AMD stands to gain from this position in three ways:

1. When the boards and processors hit the market, they're already mature.
2. AMD has given mobo manufacturers tons of time to ramp up production of AM2 based boards.
3. By setting somewhat finite release dates (6/6/06) memory manufacturers have more time to ramp up production of DDR2. (yes, I know, there's going to be a jump in DDR2 prices initially. however, it could be a lot worse)

Anyways, my point is the motherboard they sample to THG will be pretty damn mature. Like commander_data said, there isn't a huge technology change for motherboards w/ AM2. It's the processors that are changing more than anything. AM2 is essentially a socket change for the motherboard manufacturers.

Stop and think about it for one second. Why on earth would AMD give a crappy sample to THG? What would they stand to gain if they gave THG a premature motherboard engineering sample? Hmmm?

Like i said earlier, son, relax. Quit trying to drum up controversy with statements like...

Quote:
With that said, these first tests I still say will not be the max performance that AM2 is, if Tom's says "AM2 seems to perform below s939" I will lose all respect for Tom's already Intel-Biased selves.


...when you haven't even seen the article yet. Sheesh. Rabid fan boys around here lately.

-mpjesse
February 21, 2006 3:26:05 AM

Quote:
Umm, I did read your post. And FYI, Socket AM2 motherboards have been floating around in Asia for months now. AM2 has pretty much been finalized for quite a while now. The major mobo manufacturers have already had a few months to work on AM2 boards. What hasn't been finalized are the processors. There's a big frikin difference there. The reason AMD is sitting on AM2 is because they don't need to release it. AMD is still competing very, very well against Intel in terms of technology. AMD stands to gain from this position in three ways:

1. When the boards and processors hit the market, they're already mature.
2. AMD has given mobo manufacturers tons of time to ramp up production of AM2 based boards.
3. By setting somewhat finite release dates (6/6/06) memory manufacturers have more time to ramp up production of DDR2. (yes, I know, there's going to be a jump in DDR2 prices initially. however, it could be a lot worse)

Anyways, my point is the motherboard they sample to THG will be pretty damn mature. Like commander_data said, there isn't a huge technology change for motherboards w/ AM2. It's the processors that are changing more than anything. AM2 is essentially a socket change for the motherboard manufacturers.

Stop and think about it for one second. Why on earth would AMD give a crappy sample to THG? What would they stand to gain if they gave THG a premature motherboard engineering sample? Hmmm?

Like i said earlier, son, relax. Quit trying to drum up controversy with statements like...

With that said, these first tests I still say will not be the max performance that AM2 is, if Tom's says "AM2 seems to perform below s939" I will lose all respect for Tom's already Intel-Biased selves.


...when you haven't even seen the article yet. Sheesh. Rabid fan boys around here lately.

-mpjesse

OH BOY, what I'd do to meet you, we'd have some fun. We'll see tomorrow mr. "I know about the world and what's happening"

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 21, 2006 3:35:45 AM

Oh, and quit recklessly posting uneducated statements like

"I will lose all respect for Tom's already Intel-Biased selves"

if you don't have the evidence to support them. I already created a thread giving all you wacko "THG Intel Conspiracy Theorist" fanboys a chance to prove that THG was biased.

No one posted any conclusive evidence that they were.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...

And yes, I know all this is your opinion. But frankly your opinion sucks and all it does is perpetuate the very, very wrong opinion that THG is Intel biased. I'm tired of people flaming THG with no proof to back up their accusations. If you really think THG is intel biased than go to Anandtech's forums. They hate Intel over there. It'd be a good place for you and your AMD/nVidia loving self.

For the record, I own both Pentium 4, Pentium M, and AMD X2 systems. I'm currently authoring this from my AMD X2 4200+ gaming system.

Yes, I'm in a bad mood.

-mpjesse
February 21, 2006 3:49:27 AM

Congrats, let me state what I own/use on a daily basis:

Pentium M (over 20 ranging from 1.4GHz to 2.0Ghz)
Pentium 4 (over 40 From 1.4GHz to 3.4GHz)
Opteron (Dual and Single CPU systems, 1.4GHz to 2.6GHz)
Athlon 64 (Too many)
Athlon X2 (plenty enough)
Athlon XP (Overclocking Test Computers)
AMD K6 (Scrap Comps/Servers)
Pentium 3 (about 30)
Pentium 2 (Have 5 servers and 40 scrap comps)
Xeon (4 in a rack)

Want me to continue? I think you've been one upped, go to bed and kill that mood before you call somebody a fanboy next time. BTW, Only reason I use MadModMike, is because I am a Cg Developer and I like the characters nVidia creates (Ruby is the only one from ATI excluding their enemies).

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 21, 2006 4:10:41 AM

Well I guess you don't have any evidence that THG is biased...

Once again I rest my case.

My major point of contention is that you called THG Intel biased. I don't have a problem with you, your opinions, or anything else. Just quit stating THG is biased.

BTW, I don't think AMD would send THG AM2 samples if they thought THG was biased. I'm curious to see who else they sent samples to. If THG is the only one, then how can you truly believe they are biased? I guess we'll see tomorrow. I'm sure Anandtech got samples as well. Then again, can Anandtech be trusted?

In their most recent reviews, Pentium EE 955 and AthlonFX 60, they used DDR2 memory timed at the almost worst possible timings (5-5-5-15) in their Pentium testbeds and used best timed PC3500/DDR433 (2-2-2-7) timed memory for all the AMD test beds. See for yourself:

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=265...
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=266...

That's what I call proof of bias. Check and see how hard it is to get DDR2 timed at 5-5-5-15. You actually have to LOOK very hard to find that crap. And that's what Anandtech did...

Point is this: if low timings are good for AMD than they're good for Intel. Anyways, I'm way off topic. But check out the testbeds. Anandtech is nothing but a bunch of AMD fanboys. Which is fine, but they claim to be the pinnicale of un-biasism.

-mpjesse
February 21, 2006 5:14:04 AM

You make valid arguments, and that leads me to this: I don't ever trust any sites, period. I purchase products myself or use them from friends and aquantances to test for myself, rather then take the word of some website ran by god knows how biased of people. I don't trust Anandtech either, nor The Register, Inquirer, or any other site that makes you gag when you say their name. I will find some articles to prove my suspicion on Tom's biasism, but we'll just have to see how their review on AM2 goes.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 21, 2006 5:30:53 AM

Quote:
You make valid arguments, and that leads me to this: I don't ever trust any sites, period. I purchase products myself or use them from friends and aquantances to test for myself, rather then take the word of some website ran by god knows how biased of people. I don't trust Anandtech either, nor The Register, Inquirer, or any other site that makes you gag when you say their name. I will find some articles to prove my suspicion on Tom's biasism, but we'll just have to see how their review on AM2 goes.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time


So all we have is another cocky jag-off preaching loudly in forums about how great his views are?

I'm with mpjesse 100% on this, THG's one of the most un-bias places I've seen online, and I believe it's no accident they're like that. Posting nonsense and trying to start fights isn't my idea of a decent discussion or debate. 'OH BOY, what I'd do to meet you, we'd have some fun. We'll see tomorrow mr. "I know about the world and what's happening"' That's probably the most childish and bullyish thing I've read in a LONG time.

As the man said, STFU and wait till they post the results. Not like anyone'd give a damn who you lost respect for anyways.
February 21, 2006 5:38:23 AM

Dedla, you need to shut the f up right now you little newblett. You have no say in this conversation between me and jesse, go crawl back into the rock you came out of.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 21, 2006 5:52:52 AM

It's dedla, schmuck.

You're posting on a public message board. If you want it between you and him, which I doubt since you love throwing out how you think in very long posts on lots of different boards, then ingage in a private chat with him.

Who's the newb, when you're the one demanding I have no say on a public conversation?
February 21, 2006 5:56:16 AM

You're pointing out the fact I capitalized the first letter in your name? It's because you capitalize the first letter in your sentence you inbred, I don't care if I'm stating a name or not. I'm not demanding anything chief, simply saying that you have nothing relevant to say here other than noting on your love affair with mpjesse since he helped you back w/ your "1meg vs 512k dillema".

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 21, 2006 6:06:20 AM

You type a name how it's spelled, regarless of where it is in a sentance.

I'm simply agreeing with him because he actually has an intelligent view on what he's talking about, and that you should still, in fact, just simply shut up. Again you talk about my responces not being relivant. But how you justify your own rantings as relivant, I'll never really take the time to accomplish the ability to care about. You have fun with that.
February 21, 2006 6:07:09 AM

Quote:
other than noting on your love affair with mpjesse since he helped you back w/ your "1meg vs 512k dillema".


Huh? :?
February 21, 2006 6:07:58 AM

Quote:
You type a name how it's spelled, regarless of where it is in a sentance.

I'm simply agreeing with him because he actually has an intelligent view on what he's talking about, and that you should still, in fact, just simply shut up. Again you talk about my responces not being relivant. But how you justify your own rantings as relivant, I'll never really take the time to accomplish the ability to care about. You have fun with that.


Could you at least spell a word correct for once? Sheesh.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
a b à CPUs
February 21, 2006 6:24:43 AM

the only thing im expecting with AM2 is slightly colder chips (for higher clocks thanks to lower vcore ddr2) and slightly improved performance - just a platform refresh, afterall its a second gen A64, not an overhaul like intels conroe (and the aparent 20% quicker then AM2)
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b } Memory
February 21, 2006 6:28:37 AM

Quote:
I don't believe anything from The Inquirer,



Me neither.
February 21, 2006 6:30:56 AM

com'on fat guys, play nice ... :lol: 

let's see what's up for the review..
February 21, 2006 6:55:46 AM

Quote:
Congrats, let me state what I own/use on a daily basis:

Pentium M (over 20 ranging from 1.4GHz to 2.0Ghz)
Pentium 4 (over 40 From 1.4GHz to 3.4GHz)
Opteron (Dual and Single CPU systems, 1.4GHz to 2.6GHz)
Athlon 64 (Too many)
Athlon X2 (plenty enough)
Athlon XP (Overclocking Test Computers)
AMD K6 (Scrap Comps/Servers)
Pentium 3 (about 30)
Pentium 2 (Have 5 servers and 40 scrap comps)
Xeon (4 in a rack)

Want me to continue? I think you've been one upped, go to bed and kill that mood before you call somebody a fanboy next time. BTW, Only reason I use MadModMike, is because I am a Cg Developer and I like the characters nVidia creates (Ruby is the only one from ATI excluding their enemies).

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time


wow can i have some?
February 21, 2006 7:27:19 AM

Just took a trip down memory lane. I now think it's funny that THG reviewed the FX51 with the P4EE 3.2.
The funny part was that Toms had the EE ahead 31 to 15.
I'm sure you will say that's right. Good, I need another laugh.
The main reason that Toms has been biased is an Editor in chief named Omid. He has a way with words
I would also like to say, that in the last 6 months, Omid and his crew have made a serious effort at being more unbiased. I certainly applaud thier efforts.
February 21, 2006 11:48:59 AM

Not that I want to be part of this "fanboy" flamefest... I do have a few thoughts, views.

First, Many HAVE NOT trusted Tom's in the last few years... as many changes in staff and such have been going on. Not just Anandtech, but the [H] and a number of other sites (and editorials) express this view. I still look to Tom's for many things... but I treat no site's reviews to be the ultimate say. Differences in testing philosophy, and even sub-contious favortism effect results. Minor changes in testing can GREATLY effect the outcome.

Tom's mentions they are using an engineering sample CPU that MAY have a memory bug (or purposely hobbled) memory controller. Thought, why let the competition know what your really holding?. I understand Tom's wanting to give this pre-production review... but I think it should have been titled a Preview, with more emphasis on the fact that the CPU used is known NOT to be what is going to be released to the channel!

Platforms are already stable. Motherboard manufacturers have lots of expirience with the current AMD chipsets and required board design. Couple that with their expirience with Intel's DDR2 tracing... boards should be very mature.

Variables? Known early pre-production silicon for CPU, value segment memory used, at a speed grade lower then what is going to be released. I feel this would have been a more appropriate "preview" of the upcoming Sempron, not performance/enthusiast lines.
February 21, 2006 1:08:56 PM

You're right man. :wink:

I know that they would do something like this: use an engineering sample with the DDR2 memory controller bug on it and then talk crap about AM2 performing less than s939. :wink:

If yuou want REAL reviews, go to anandtech, techreport, hexus, firingsquad and many others.

To be sincere with you guys, I don't believe a sh*t in TomsHardware. After reading the first 3 pages of the preview, I've stopped reading it immediately because I know what the conclusions would be.

The only thing I like is the forums and nothing else. :wink:
February 21, 2006 5:42:33 PM

I agree, but there are too many morons on these forumz, I won't name names as I probably would get banned, but you know who you are.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b } Memory
February 21, 2006 8:20:15 PM

Quote:
Congrats, let me state what I own/use on a daily basis:

Pentium M (over 20 ranging from 1.4GHz to 2.0Ghz)
Pentium 4 (over 40 From 1.4GHz to 3.4GHz)
Opteron (Dual and Single CPU systems, 1.4GHz to 2.6GHz)
Athlon 64 (Too many)
Athlon X2 (plenty enough)
Athlon XP (Overclocking Test Computers)
AMD K6 (Scrap Comps/Servers)
Pentium 3 (about 30)
Pentium 2 (Have 5 servers and 40 scrap comps)
Xeon (4 in a rack)

Want me to continue? I think you've been one upped, go to bed and kill that mood before you call somebody a fanboy next time. BTW, Only reason I use MadModMike, is because I am a Cg Developer and I like the characters nVidia creates (Ruby is the only one from ATI excluding their enemies).

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time



-------------------------------------------------



hahahahahahha......

Finally. somebody who puts it to the point.

All the fanboys go to the shredder pliiiiiiis! (and die horribly)

THIS DISCUSSION IS OVAR!

No. no buts.

No more uninformed brabbel.

SHUT IT UP YOU IDIOTS.

Just shove your rig up your ass. and sew your mouth shut. We don't care what score you get on 3dmark9999. WE DON't CARE!


W E D O N O T C A R E!

(i wish I could punish all of you morons with a permanent ban. so all the replies we get here would actually be useful, helping AND objective)
February 21, 2006 8:39:23 PM

Damn dude, too much coffee this morning?
February 21, 2006 8:43:50 PM

Just don't give him a redbull...
February 21, 2006 8:56:19 PM

MadMod, seriously, cool down man, a poster disagrees with you and you attack him. Then you get after another poster and call him a newblet. You have what? 100 some posts? Mpjesse has over 2000+ more than you. If your going to pull posts/rank crap then keep that in mind. Read your posts and you will see this. There is no good reason for previous war between you and mpjesse. I am with MP on this one just because it makes sense from a business standpoint. Doing otherwise is kind of like what Sony is doing with the PS3, and in my opinion this is hurting them big. AMD is too smart to make that mistake.
February 21, 2006 8:58:51 PM

Wow. The warriors mount against the giant, hoo wah! And for the record, I have no problem with any poster, but when you start a post out by disrespecting me, I couldn't care less who it is or how many posts he/she has.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
February 21, 2006 10:00:03 PM

uuuuhh a fight fight fight fight!
!