Intel P4 506 or comparable AMD?

i need to decide between a P4 506(2.66Ghz) or an AMD, the pentium is cheaper on one hand as i only have about 170.0 dollers and the 2.66 is know to overclock easily past 3.4Ghz. i couldnt find an athlon 64(939) for less than 169.0(3200+). Any ideas? or should i just stick with my first idea of the Pentium? Thank You.
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  1. yeah, the pentium is barely a is pretty much junk. I say spend a little more money on your cpu and get a athlon 3500 (200 bucks).

    What are you planning on doing with your computer anyway?
  2. why would i get a 3500 lol? i have a 3200 oced to over 4000+ speeds. i just wanted to try something different, and i heard pentiums are better at folding. plus the only other solution for price being under 170(thats including ram) is going socket 754. i do not plan to upgrade this is an as is system for its entire life. heres my list

    pentium 4 506(2.6Ghz)+Mobo 100.0
    Corsair Value Select 512Mb 35.00
    Spire SP-507B7 22.99
    Artic cooling 18.00(for hot 9800Pro)
    all from
    and i am selling my duron rig for 170.0

    the only future upgrade woul probably be another 512Mb of ram.
    but if you can find a comparable(or better) system for under 180.0 i check it out. Thank You.
  3. As far as Folding goes, Intel users no longer are getting the insane amount of points they used to get.

    After a long flamewar that spanned across multiple (deleted or locked) threads, the Pande Group decided to remove WUs based on the QMD core (even though they officialy say that they were done collecting data).

    QMD WUs were only handed to Intel CPU due to Intel cheating with their compilers and libraries and taking advantage of an abusive EULA.

    If you really want to go with Intel to experience something different, here is a nice Intel Pentium 4 simulator :

    1- Get and AMD system
    2- Unscrew the fan from the heatsink
    3- Put the fan on the bottom of your case, the vibrations generated by the loose fan will complete the illusion.

    Here you go ! Your AMD system will now be just as loud and prone to overheating as a Genuine Intel system would be !
  4. ok well any suggestions on what kind of AMD to get? i only have 170 dollers i spent 210 on my 3200+mobo and my other money source is going twords a 7800GT. i saw a AMD 3000+(venice) 754 with mobo on tigerdirect for 169.99 will the 754 cripple it? and does the 754 have dual channel ram? ill look up some benches and see what happens. any suggestions are welcome.
  5. S754 doesn't have dual channel memory so it's performance would be more limited. The cheapest AMD S939 is the A64 3000+ which sells for $131.26 right now.

    The problem with the 506 is that it doesn't include HT which is critical to Prescott's performance. As well, even if you overclock it the base FSB is still very limited when you start at 533MHz so you're still going to be bandwidth limited.

    The Intel equivalent of the A64 3000+ would be the 531. It sells for only $142.14 right now and is actually cheaper than the 520.

    Oh, I just noticed something. My best recommendation for you would be to get a 805D which has just been released. It's a dual core processor running at 2.66GHz with 1MB of L2 cache per core. What's even better is that it's only $145 putting it in the same price range as the A64 3000+ and the 531D. If you want good folding performance, dual core is the way to go and this one is cheap. These are actually 8xx parts that can't run stably at 800MHz FSB and so use a 533MHz FSB. However, this does not mean their maximum net clock speed is limited and they retain all the features such as 64-bit support and EIST. In fact, they have been tested to up to 3.7GHz.
  6. I have a s754 3200 @ 2.45ghz, and a s939 3200 @ 2.5 ghz. Bothe are folding 24/7 The s939 is marginally faster, but mostly because the s754 is an older chip, and cant OC as well. The 754 chip available now are venice chips, with dual channel disabled. I guess that answers your second question.
    The s754 chips lack the # of pins required for dual channel support.
    Since the s754 chips start 200mhz faster, you may be able to get a serious OC with the higher mutiplier. As far as comparing that chip to the Intel offering, there is no way the Intel chip could keep up.
  7. yeah that dual core does look pretty awesome, i think ill wait for the benchmarks. i guess i can spend a little more, anyone know the performance of these compared to the a64s? Thank You.
  8. but i guess you also have to consider that im running a 9800pro and the proc would be highly bottlenecked, i didnt plan on building a new system that could compete but an older one that would run all of last years games. in dual core games like COD2 would the Pentium D be way better?
  9. I picked up my 3700+ for around ~$200 US a few months ago off of ebay. If you never plan on upgrading the machine then 754 is the only way to go. Cheap and 90% of the speed you'd get from any 939 chip.
  10. get an opty 144 and oc like crazy but you got a budget then get the 3200
  11. If the games you play support dual core processors the difference can be drastic. In fact with the latest dual core patch in Quake 4, the 820D is actually faster than the FX-57.
    The chart at the bottom.

    In terms of COD2, although the dual core patch is out people have actually noticed decreased performance with it. They obviously have some kinks to work out.

    Even in single threaded games, the performance should be acceptable especially if you plan on overclocking. You won't beat the latest high-end dual cores, but it should be fine.

    My concern for you is that 9800Pro. That's an AGP card while almost all the Intel motherboards nowadays are PCIe based. You probably will have problems finding a AGP motherboard, especially one that supports dual core processors. AMD's platform has also switched to PCIe although they may have more AGP options available.

    The 805D actually wasn't supposed to be released until March, but Intel decided to quietly launch it early. There aren't many benchmarks out yet and the only one I know of is the one from HKEPC. You'll need a translator though.
  12. more like 99%... compare 2 of the same chip on each socket, the dual channel doesnt slow the chip down at all.. barely slowler in real life apps... its faster in benchmarks i think... i have a 3700+ on socket 754 and am not regretting it at all, although i do regret getting an agp board since i really want an x1900xt :(
  13. that looks good itd be pretty good for future games with that support. i wish amd would come out with a cheaper dual core, i would definentally buy that.
    im still waiting on stalker and thats basically what this second system is for, the 9800Pro will run everything max im sure. but with the 506 there are a ton of them going with those asus av whatever with agp support thats why i was looking at those first i think its a via chipset for 100. i dont have enough money for an opty or 3200 :cry: i guess ill see whatever comes in cheaper but with the pentium d 805(145) i would have to get a mobo(50) aftermarket cooling(30) ram(35). i think im pretty much at a dead end route, ill see if i cant scrounge up some money. i was just thinking somthing better than my duron, which i now hate with a passion, i would keep it if it installed windows properly.
  14. If you are still thinking of sticking with Intel

    Celeron D 3.06Ghz You cant beat the bag for the buck. :D
    What motherboard are you thinking of?
    Your video card is an agp card and most of the motherboards for socket 775 are pci-e.

    Also congrat's on selling that old system for that much, you found a sucker :lol:
  15. and idont know the p4 is only like 10 bucks more than that celeron, with 4x the cache.
  16. Good luck with ebay :)
    Here is the motherboard.
    Just so you know the actual cost so you dont over bid.
  17. yes i know thank you :D i think there was some kind of blowout sale at frys lol, ill have to go check it out and see how much they ACCTUALLY are retail. o i think i saw an amd 3200+mobo at frys for like 120.0 if i could find something like that again i would jump on it.
  18. Quote:
    If the games you play support dual core processors the difference can be drastic. In fact with the latest dual core patch in Quake 4, the 820D is actually faster than the FX-57.
    The chart at the bottom.

    That test is not telling the truth. You don't play at those FPS, you increase your graphical detail until you have about 50-70FPS on average, and by then the difference between the cpus is gone since the graphic card will be the bottleneck. I've seen other sites (think it was firingsquad) that tested the dual core patch at higher settings and there was no difference at all.
  19. wait... i don't get it, you've already got a 3200 way oc'd but your looking at buying another one? :?
  20. o trust me it hasent even hit its limit yet :twisted: 2.5(250Mhz FSB) stock voltage completely stable. yes for a 120 dollers id jump on it i spent nrealy 200 for my current mobo and a320064. i just need to find something better than my curent duron.
  21. well then if thats' what your doing i'd stick with what you know and get another 3200, or maybe a 3700 cause i like it lol, instead of taking the leap into the pile of shit that i intel.

    ps, i'm not a fanboy, but AMD's been owning intel for so long now its hard to like them.
  22. yeah i know what ya mean. the only pentium ive had was my p2 400 :D then got my amd athlon 1.0 rest is history. i still love that pentium though it runs very well for being 8 years old. i just know how to take care of my comps. my next upgrade was to get a nforce 4 board with pci-express and a 7800GT i think ill wait for a price drop after the 7900 comes out though(hopefully 200 or less :P ). id oc higher if my mobo supported it :evil: cap is 2Ghz (250Mhz)
    anyone know about any bios mods? that would be awesome, Thank You.
  23. You're folding for 8O ? I'm not sure if I can forgive you. At least you're folding. J/K :D

    Take a minute and vote for us to get a dedicated folding section in the forumz.
  24. i still have my pentium 2 366mhz with 96mb RAM, it what i'm using right now :P However next week i'm finally getting a good system with a 3700, evga 7800gt co 470mhz, 2x1gig ocz el platinum 2-2-2-5 RAM, and an asus a8n sli premium mobo. :lol:
  25. i dont know why everyone is getting that premium board when they dont have SLI its so pointless, theyre are many comparable boards that are just as good if not better withought the steep price gain and pointlessness on an extra slot. but whatever you want im sure youll be pschyed(spelling?) when you get it. and yes i have started folding for toms hardware you can find me by TenaciousleyDead :D but for some reason it hasent changed it from got 2 wu's done already for THG woopie.
  26. i got it because i like its features, had good reviews, and i at leats have the option of going sli, even though it seems to be a bit of a waste of money.
  27. :roll: I am not sure any of those processors will be that great in year or less. On (ebay) dual cores are selling for $60, sometimes with mainboard included. There must be big "dumping" going on with early dual core stuff.Lets face it, with poorer engineering in memory controller & just slapping two cores together with wires is not that cool on INTELS part. I read today AMD is going to start supplying IBM with desktop processors(while INTEL falls to APPLE), so think AMD & perhaps wait for AM2 socket, if not just to reduce present prices further. Last week AMD slashed prices 12.5% across board, so theres new brew in kitchen, I am sure of that. :?:
  28. yeah your right, i doubt AMD would come out with a whole new platform and cut new development of s939 components, if the AM2 performance gains were as "negligable" as people say. Perhaps ddr2 will help amd in coding where they are lagging behind intel. AND we also haven't seen the 65nm process they will be coming out with next year, with which they could blow intel's 45nm out of the water.
  29. For DDR-2 there are "low latency" sticks made which should allow AMD to outperform INTEL on even number basis. Right now AMD might need 800 mhz stick to be equal to 533 stick in intel system. Each little piece put together right is big factor in whole systems performance. Another big deal is:
    C51XE+MCP55PXE: Chipset/controller(notice number:-5- predominates) from NVIDIA/ULI. It is 46+ lane controller & ready for SLI2, another, another big booster that AMD mainboards can pick up.So far all this stuff is close, yet not quite out to market.46 lane PCI EXPRESS will finally get mainboard faster than GAME CARD(S), as it should always be.I'm thinking up to 2X? performance boost in one step. :idea: Then, FOR LOVE OF GOD,(oe money thru vastly improved sales), maybe someone will make single 32X slot & TOP END game card that will make all 7900GTX512/1900XTX's weep.Add quad core, maybe 3d'06 approaching 20,000?NOW THATS HOT!!!Add HDMI & HUGE display: your "Cooking with Gas."Then finally someone will make Humongeous game to outfit on new VISTA 64 bit ULTIMATE system, WEEP,WEEP,WEEP. Theres lots of reasons to wait if you want to put out cash, however,for simpler stuff just waitng till mid summer may save some money, yet not much compared to missing experience of online computing now.Really, point is don't waste $6,000 anytime soon on "parsed" sli system, its' gonna look sick by new year with whole new computer2 coming out.Signed:PHYSICIAN THOMAS STEWART VON DRASHEK M.D. :D
  30. dude its like impossible to spend 6k on 1 comp lol unless its a high end server. and if youve noticed the pattern almost every anticipated product has it and how great it is going to be, you can see the natural proggression throught the entire family of amds and intels, there were never and quantum leeps. this will just be a marginal increase over whats already out on the market, but yes im looking forward to it so prices can ddrrooppp off a cliff.
  31. A 32x PCIe slot? What for? Have you read the reviews? They don't even use all of the bandwidth of 8. 16 is just marketing hype. People like you are the reason that chipsets featuring "true dual 16 PCIe slots" have a premium price.
    The next generation is always a little better, usually (the first p4s were actually worse clock for clock).
    Price conscientious people buy products that were top of the line six months or a year ago. Others just sit around and think about how great next years market hyped, over priced product will be.
    My rig right now is a SFF 939 with an A64 3000+. Eventually it will be home to a dual core opty. In a few years, I'll get a new system and this one will retire to my home entertainment center.

    I just don't get the *drool* new hardware hard-on, I guess.
    Well, unless you're building a folding rig, now that's different :lol:
  32. :( $6,000 I mentioned is for new DELL Quad graphics card gaming computer, it was announced yesterday. It is hard to believe anyone would spend so much on DELL, Yet thats how families are. There is one example of radical change, it is transition from PC1 to PC2. It took 5 years, yet PC1 computers from large systems where all over place, just being thrown or given away. PC1 is no longer supported & hasn't been since introduction of Pentium II. Although it is not possible to replace all PC2 machines(2 ghz+ do work well), it is possible to make one VISTA o/s PC3, however unlikely, by getting rid of floppy drive & using chip to intialize that level of architecture & not allowing it to use "dial up" at all, or difficult. Simply standards that are iA64 only, memory over 2 gb(make that 8gb for safety of design), Desktop/server,Core @ 333 mhz/sec,gb+ lan,all come to mind as standards.Its too bad that jump cann't be made by starting entirely new internet, so to speak, for it(if you have capability, you get dsl speed it can use, policy), in any event VISTA starts next generation of PC-X- should be several years affair of hardware & software updates, bringing rapid big jump in exploiting 64 bit potential.I really feel 32 bit is for "old timers",like DOS.There is money in "home" market, yet delivery system needs just little bit better computers to get over grainy edge of today(especially large display HDTV 1080P, Which public is demanding).We will see if late fall VISTA brings on furthering rash of convergence into one graphics slot & intergrating best of today into fairly new robust platform,& how that software starts to rapidly fill in.Remember 64 bit Vista is nearly 4 gb in size, so thats 8X size increase from XP right there(as well as huge amount of space). Where do you store you 4 gb O/S except on computer with more than 4/8 gb in it for memory. :!: So I think its been long time of little steps, while "big" step is working up for intro soon enough to put off any major expense.Thread Poster is probably right: wisely use small amount of funds until power difference is overwhelming DUE TO TV STATION ADOPTION AS WELL AS LARGE HIGH SPEED SERVER FARMS developing capacity that such "next generation" machines will crave thru online software perks. :P . Signed:PHYSICIAN THOMAS STEWART VON DRASHEK M.D..
  33. If you saved your money up from all those little step improvements & bought "blaster" when its clearly unique opportunity, you will have basement full of "best" quality junk, THAT KIDS CAN INDISCRIMATELY BREAK FOR YOU.Also, its quite possible with new XML operating system THAT WORK AS COMPACT "MODULES" :wink: that folder level computing will be required to fill 55 inches of HDTV plasma or carbon nanotube big tube 1080P interactive gaming.i SUPPOSE-"ONLY IN U.S.A.". :roll: Signed:PHYSICIAN THOMAS STEWART VON DRASHEK M.D.
  34. Ok, I'm not sure what phucking language you are speaking in. Is your native tongue English? Where do you get your hardware/software info. Did you really pass med school, and if so in what country?

    Let me ask you this: how many computers have you owned? How many have you built?

    I really can't help myself here because you're wearing that pompous, arrogant attitude like a bad suite. So here goes:

    :( $6,000 I mentioned is for new DELL Quad graphics card gaming computer, it was announced yesterday.

    The quad Dell was announced at CES in early January (5th-8th to be precise). Today is Feb. 25

    :...transition from PC1 to PC2. It took 5 years, yet PC1 computers from large systems where all over place, just being thrown or given away. PC1 is no longer supported & hasn't been since introduction of Pentium II. Although it is not possible to replace all PC2 machines (2 ghz+ do work well),...PC3...

    WTF are you talking about? PC1, PC2 is that a reference to Intel's s line of Pentium Processors? If so, I don't even know where to begin to educate you on PC's. If not, please enlighten me, perhaps with some references?

    I really feel 32 bit is for "old timers",like DOS.

    I agree 64 bit will show it's prowess eventually, but tell me Doc, What is 64 doing for you right now? Do you own a single app that gets a significant boost from 64 bit? Do you have an OS that runs 64? Can you name 3 that support it?

    ...especially large display HDTV 1080P, Which public is demanding

    What public is demanding 1080p??? Most middle class Americans are very recently able to afford 480p, 1080i, and a display to handle it. That accounts for what, 5% of the world population?
    Anyone that is demanding 1080p can certainly afford it.

    So I think its been long time of little steps, while "big" step is working up for intro soon enough

    There is a theory that hardware doubles in speed every 18 months. It's called Moore's Law It has been roughly accurate for 35+ years. I'm sure, in your infinite wisdom, you are correct, that the "big one" is just over the horizon.

    If you saved your money up from all those little step improvements & bought "blaster" when its clearly unique opportunity...

    WTF is a "blaster"? If you mean top of the line PC, you buy the "blaster" for $10,000, and I will get it on eBay for $800 in a year. Did you read my post? I said that I would upgrade ONE component, and then continue to use that system. It is not planned obsolesce, even though much of the computer hardware world is.

    that folder level computing will be required to fill 55 inches of HDTV plasma or carbon nanotube big tube 1080P

    LMAO do you even know what Folding is?

    BTW if your 64bit system supports spellchecking/grammar correction, try it out. Even us 16 bit PC1, "old timers" have that.

    I'm going out on a limb here, and not wait for a reply. My instincts tell me (to quote a forum veteran, hope you don't mind Ned :wink: )

    "You, sir, are an idiot."
  35. Dear Speakeasy: :oops: I don't think your parents really taught you to speak to others that way, maybe it was too much of Friday night.Are you asking am I Native American? I practice medicine by GOVENORS' SIGNATURE,thats rare privilege.UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA.NEXT:quite few.I am protected legally from your "suit".I am mentioning second quad system that was announced day before yesterday.Unfortunatly you know little of PC1/PC2 platform change, it did happen. :evil: .Maybe you where in prison then & probably will be back there soon enough.64 bit is creating developemental era of striking proportion. MOORES LAW HAS ALSO BEEN REDEFINED WHILE YOU WHERE OUTSIDE barking at tree, ITS' "TRANSISTOR COUNT" THAT DOUBLES EVERY 18-24 MONTHS.Protien folding is theory I worked with in early 1960s' on HP2000.I type as I speak,As far as I can tell your looking for attention from other low life.whom you wish to admire. :evil: Signed:PHYSICIAN THOMAS STEWART VON DRASHEK M.D. :lol:
  36. No Doc, I am asking what is your first language? Is it English?
    I practice medicine by GOVENORS' SIGNATURE,thats rare privilege

    I'll take that as a "no" to med school.

    That's why I said "roughly accurate" and provided you with a link to explain it.
    I am sure you are familiar with links, as in CLICK HERE. Provide some documentation to back up your claims.
    I doubt if anyone here understands your rambling.
    I hope the University of Minnesota is more forgiving of your gramatical errors than I am.
    BTW the protein folding project I am currently working on is sustaining 200 TFLOPS. I bet your HP2000 couldn't do that.
    How about answering my questions instead of making personal attacks. Prison? Tree barking?
    Just don't let me scare you off; this forum can use all the humor it can get.
  37. "looking for attention from other low life" dude fuck off, you dont have to be a bitch about life because your sucks, and i am not here to argue on that so dont even respond in deffense. yes i can tell you what in your 80's? go die somewhere noone wants you ecspecially around here. Have a Great Day :D
  38. Maybe you could ease up on the good DR. Of course he went to med school, how else could he get so full of himself?
    The whole point of med school is to give you the ego to practice medicine. [humour]poor basteds dont even get to do it, only practice, and even that they do badly[/humour]
    I mean seriously, if you want to bash somebody, go after the guys like WINDSHEAR, or ycon. If you want a good argument, there's LC data.
  39. :D I just read Article that states low end OPTERONS are taking place of Desktop processors for inexpensive gaming rigs. Opteron
    Dual core model 165 - $278
    Single core Model 144 - $111 :o
    They also have twice the amount of level two cache and overclock like crazy. However, you might need ECC memory.
    Athlon 64
    Dual core 3800plus - $301
    Single core 3200plus - $155
    If you go beyond desktop useage you might make workstation or server, pretty clean. :o On folding, we started (1961) with paper, like everyone else, then computer was gibberish wash out(from my point of view), at end came up with plastic stick like models that expand & contract, kids toys, yet science classes still use stuff for atom/molecule demos of valence level changes, in there Jamacian/Rasta computing element from u of Minn showed up few days with idea to have world folding website that would protect those whom wish to work together on project 8) , think they still maintain website, although not really sure if any "folding" occurs on members computers. If its folder then opteron for sure, Man.For 2 more hours BOB MARLEY (memorial like) concert from Florida is on MSN opening page, too many comericals for ME :P Mon.Signed:PHYSICIAN THOMAS STEWART VON DRASHEK M.D.
  40. Socket 939 Opterons do not require REG ECC SDRAM.

    They use 184pin unbuffered DDR SDRAM.

    The Socket 940 Opterons require 184pin REG ECC DDR SDRAM.
  41. hey linux is there a way to install linux withought a cd-rom? my burner just friggin gave out so im stuck with just my dvd drive and ipod which i store alot of files on. Thank You.
  42. If you have a freind that can burn a linux ISO to DVD, you'd be in good shape. There are actually a few distros floating around that are big enough that they are tailored for DVD's.
    Otherwise, you may be able to extract the ISO to your ipod, if your bios recognizes it. I'm not sure though, never tried it.
    If you get too hard up, PM me and I'll mail you a CD.
  43. Well yes and no.

    Back in the day you used to be able to install over FTP, using an HDD or NFS.

    I don't remember if you can still do that (theoretically you certainly can).

    Theoretically you can even boot using etherboot and install over the network.

    For best results tho you are better off using a DVD if possible.

    FC4, SuSE and several other distributions now come on DVD...

    The single DVD is a lot easier than having to use 4, 5 or more CDs.

    You can get a DVD-ROM for $20 or a DVD recorder for $40.

    I'll do some more research and let you know.
  44. awesome thank you. my ram is very finiky with this motherboard and alot of my shits been getting corrupted im so pissed off lol. i had about 23 gigs of stuff downloading(not finished) and it blue screened,all gone corrupted. now all the windows settings(visual stuff) is messed up. AHHHHHH!!!
  45. :D Heres idea that initial poster might think of: AM2 & DDR-2 adapter card for SLI 2. Although SLI 2 is unknown in real world, if you started today with one thats 939 pin, when AM2 comes out you could change over. Well its bit too much perhaps. hers another:Mounted card into slot. and last look from china today:Best look in this link.. I know its extra expense & futile effort, yet it is possible now to link 939 to AM2 on same mainboard.Doubtfull performance would be much to write home about.//On Linux, isn't Linux little like "Mini-ME" from Austin Powers? Kind of holding onto Microsofts pant leg for server share. Its too bad that DESKTOP needs are not well addressed. Its money thing, kind of like parasite sucking blood from IT Dept, will no expense spent in end user developement(too expensive to develope & too poor market).I've tried Linux, yet it never keeps running long. Best was DESKTOP disc that had to be loaded with each use. I hope well for Linux, as Microsoft is just too abusive of consumer e.g. activation, yet Linux dosn't even want consumer useage at all, from what I've experienced. 80% of Home consumers would gladly "run" FROM MICROSOFT, YET M/s IS BEST GAME IN TOWN, E.G. vista. I'm sure Linux is mild threat & thats good.Also maybe best platform for new IT student,However with Windows Sever 2003 available for "FREE"? :oops: .Signed:PHYSICIAN THOMAS STEWART VON DRASHEK M.D.
  46. yeah i saw all those pics a long while ago in i think it was a THG article, could be although. and i am the initial poster, i know for fact i cannot afford that as i am not upgrading my current 3200+ for about 2-3 years.
  47. :D Me thinks Opteron I listed or Auction site for $60 dual core. Really Opteron at $111 is probably best bet for quality performance. Prices where reduced 12.5% last week, so follow curve up towards $200, thats where strongest processors seem to reside. They will hold cost/value quite well, yet be pretty much baby top ender.Opteron 939 in that range might beat Sonys' "CELL" & you can get going today with little risk. 8) Signed:PHYSICIAN THOMAS STEWART VON DRASHEK M.D.
  48. How exactly do you compare a sony cell to an Opteron proc? Is there a desktop system running somewhere using a cell??
    Is there a P3 running an Opteron?
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