Gas Lines

[riser]

I'm not understanding these gas lines. It was Monday the storm hit. Here it is Wednesday/Thursday and people are lining up for gas. Really? You didn't think to fill your tank up on Saturday or Sunday? How much driving do you really do? I have a truck and I drive a lot and a tank lasts over a week still. Plus, with the storm, I can't imagine you're driving to work or running errands right now.

Generators? Sure, if you were unprepared. My mom picked up 75 gallons of gas before the storm. That would run her whole house generator for over two weeks straight.

Interview the gas liners, find out what they need the gas for and why they didn't prepare. It isn't like we didn't get a full week's warning on this storm.

 

[chunkymonster]

I hear ya, I don't get it either...

Driving home last night on the NJ Turnpike there was a major slow down in the traffic, almost to a complete stop. Come to find out it was people shifting lanes to hit the rest stop. The line for gas extended from the gas pumps, down the deceleration lane and onto the shoulder of the NJ Turnpike for 1/2 mile before the rest stop.

Insane!

Glad I have a diesel Jetta, no lines at the diesel pumps.

 

[riser]

I'm glad I'm smarter than NJ idiots I would have filled up the gas before.

 

[chunkymonster]

From Business Insider...

New Jersey Gas Lines Stretch For Miles And Miles

With PHOTOS! ooohh, aaahh...photos...

 

[riser]

I like seeing all those cars, sitting there idling away waiting for hours. Me? I'd have the car off, in neutral, and pushing it the 8 feet every time the line moved.

 

[Reynod]

What is this talk about driving a Jetta??

If the discussion turns to period pains I am going to start issuing temporary bans ... for the good of the rest of the MEN in this forum !!

Don't even think about talking about shoes ... or scarves.

 

[Reynod]

It puts the lotion on its skin ...

 

[cin19]

Yes, unpreparedness and unexpectedness.

Check out this too "New yorkers line up for food" http://news.yahoo.com/video/raw-yorkers-line-food-064611595.html

 

[Reynod]

Or it gets the hose again.

Hey Rey, i submitted Pennywise as my new avatar like 2 weeks ago. Still not approved/updated. What's up?

Not sure mate as I can't see these or handle them.

Resubmit your request and I imagine it will get processed Monday.

 

[riser]

The people in the city are starving, helpless, etc, because the gov't can't be there to do everything for them. Cities are bastions for gov't and they work, until the gov't is actually needed and unable to truly help them.

A week later Marines are landing to help out finally. Apparently we didn't learn anything from previous disasters. The only benefit this storm had over Katrina is that it hasn't killed as many people.

 

[chunkymonster]

It's very telling that there is no where near the number of reports and coverage by the main stream media about how the people in NYC, Atlantic City, and northern New Jersey are suffering, are left to fend for themselves, have no power seven days, have no food, water, and that looting and robberies are rampant.

Compare the coverage of Hurricane Sandy to Katrina and how the main stream media focused on the victims and the government's poor response. Compare how the main stream media blamed Bush to the attention given to Obama.

I'm guessing the main stream media and Obama-maniacs feel warm and fuzzy inside that their savior-in-chief was taking care of business during his convenient little photo op through New Jersey. I actually feel bad for Governor Christie, in the end he got used as a prop to make Obama look good in the days leading up to the election.

 

[riser]

Very true on Christie.. but like he said, he didn't care. He is looking out for his State. Now, after the election, let's see how much it matters. I think Christie might be playing a card here based on the election. Depending on how Obama handles himself after tomorrow, Christie can really do some damage. Not that it would matter anymore though...

The coverage is poor. I was reading from individual iReports and whatnot about people taking turns protecting their property with all types of weapons, digging through garbage dumpsters, and all that. As they say, we're only 3 missed meals from anarchy.

We've seen this type of issue happen multiple times in our lifetimes. Right now, I'm sure a lot of those people living around all that sewage wouldn't be laughing at the people wearing a gas mask, or with their MRE style food, or things of that nature. It only needs to happen once.

Over the weekend I went out and bought up a bunch of batteries and yet another LED flashlight. I like having batteries on hand.. Last year I had a bunch of Cyalume glow sticks in a box. Neigbors thought I was a bit off. We lost power when a tornado came through. Within a few hours they're over asking me if they could have a glow stick. Not the best thing to have candles or lanterns burning in an apartment complex when it is night out and you have kids. Glow stick, toss it and forget it. 12 hours of glowing goes a long way.

My next purchase will be a Wise food bucket for a 30 day supply. It'll work for backpack trips and as emergency food stores. After that, I want to get a water filter. Then my whole preparedness kit will be done. I'm expected a bad winter this year too (as is everyone I would think) and being that the hills here ice over, people won't be driving much.

It'll be an interesting year I think.

 

[johnsonma]

Does anyone agree with Mitt that the federal disaster programs should be privatized?

 

[chunkymonster]

Does anyone agree with Mitt that the federal disaster programs should be privatized?

If not privatized then relegated to the States. Why spend tax dollars on FEMA when that money could be given back to each State to secure their own disaster relief agencies; the agencies could be a mix of public and private entities.

 

[johnsonma]

Yes. It gets done better. Glenn Beck had tractor trailers of food & clothing there the day after the storm. Still no FEMA or Red Cross even days afterwards.

K, so in between disasters how does the private businesses turn a profit?

 

[riser]

Does anyone agree with Mitt that the federal disaster programs should be privatized?

Yes, train derailments and whatnot are private and do exceptionally well. Federal disaster should go to private companies to do properly. Working in gov't has too much red tape and too many check boxes to check instead of actually getting real work done.

 

[riser]

K, so in between disasters how does the private businesses turn a profit?

Federal gov't pays out to a private company for their work. It will be cheaper.

 

[johnsonma]

If not privatized then relegated to the States. Why spend tax dollars on FEMA when that money could be given back to each State to secure their own disaster relief agencies; the agencies could be a mix of public and private entities.

While relegating it to the states is a feasible option I disagree with anything that suggests a private entity could function in this kind of setting. How could you make money helping people after a disaster? The other thing I think is important to note is that if it was delegated to the states there would be less resources available to deal with a situation. Lets face it, the federal government has more manpower and logistical options available to them. If you divide up the money we currently devote to the diaster agencies to the states then doesn't that short change the states that deal with this kind of situation more often?

 

[johnsonma]

Federal gov't pays out to a private company for their work. It will be cheaper.

What private company would exist to provide food and shelter to people on a random sometimes lengthly intervel? Train derailment is one thing, millions of people without power and food is another.

 

[riser]

What private company would exist to provide food and shelter to people on a random sometimes lengthly intervel? Train derailment is one thing, millions of people without power and food is another.

Look at the Red Cross.

The company could provide basic support throughout the year for hot and cold weather conditions. On top of that there are enough regular disasters that would provide adequate time. It seems you are going on the assumption that you would have a large amount of people sitting around waiting for something to happen? A small amount of people to coordinate supplies and distribution would be simple, coupled with using volunteers, or more likely, the National Guard to distribute the supplies.

Do we not in fact have FEMA employees sitting around waiting for something like this to happen? Why not streamline it and have a private company handle the supplies and use the National Guard as the group to distribute the supplies? Is it unthinkable to have a private company work hand in hand with the government for the safety of the people?

 

[wanamingo]

How would that company make money?

 

[riser]

The same way the Red Cross does and the gov't can subsidize them as well to constantly prepare, instead of keeping their own staff on hand who clearly do a poor job. It would be more cost effective and generally better kept when a private sector does it because they have something to gain, whereas with the gov't, there is no incentive as they gain nothing. Good job or bad job, it doesn't matter.

 

[wanamingo]

Did blackwater fight a better war than our troops?

Arent all power companies private? I cant say many people are always happy with service companies speedy response...

Whats the incentive for helping lower income individuals? They wont be able to pay the bill once they get it. If I get stranded on my roof during a storm and a brand new helicopter comes in to save me I would wave it away.... and wait for my neighbor to get me in a boat.

 

[chunkymonster]

While relegating it to the states is a feasible option I disagree with anything that suggests a private entity could function in this kind of setting. How could you make money helping people after a disaster?

Wow! Stating that suggests you believe the government actually provides all the disaster relief in America. Hahaha! I guess that you never knew Blackwater (Yes, the same Blackwater used by the US government in the Middle East for private security forces) used their own helicopters to get people off their roofs after Hurricane Katrina. There are, literally, hundreds of private disaster relief companies, here's a link to very short and partial list. As far as making money goes, most private disaster relief companies are non-profit.

Before the federal government got into he business of providing social assistance, disaster relief, and/or emergency services, it was a combination of private, state, and volunteer organizations that provided all of those things. You can actually graph the reduction in the number of private entities and volunteer organizations over the past 100 years as the federal government increased their scope and size in providing more and more of these services.

The other thing I think is important to note is that if it was delegated to the states there would be less resources available to deal with a situation. Lets face it, the federal government has more manpower and logistical options available to them. If you divide up the money we currently devote to the disaster agencies to the states then doesn't that short change the states that deal with this kind of situation more often?

The federal government does not necessarily have more resources as much as it is they have a different pool of resources. Federal employees live somewhere right? Are they any more or less available if a disaster happens in their own home state? Are they any more or less available if their own home is destroyed?

There is also mutual aid between states. If a disaster occurs in North Carolina, the governor gets on the phone and calls the governors of South Carolina, Virginia, Georgia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee and asks for their resources and man power. Research Executive Order 13528 which establishes the Council of Governors; which is probably one of the few good things to come out of the 2008 NDAA. This type of mutual aid for disaster relief is something that could also be managed through the National Governors Association. Between these two outlets, it could enable the governors of each state to coordinate and share resources in case of disaster without the need for FEMA or other federal resources. As far as the money is concerned, if the states can share resources, who's to say they can't share the monies between them as well.

 

[chunkymonster]

Did blackwater fight a better war than our troops?

Arent all power companies private? I cant say many people are always happy with service companies speedy response...

Whats the incentive for helping lower income individuals? They wont be able to pay the bill once they get it. If I get stranded on my roof during a storm and a brand new helicopter comes in to save me I would wave it away.... and wait for my neighbor to get me in a boat.

Blackwater is not a professional military, they are a private security firm, they would not be expected to fight a better war than our troops, but they certainly could train people how to secure and protect people and property.

No, not all power companies are private! Most electric and gas utilities are publicly traded and very well regulated by their state public utilities commission. The exceptions may be smaller Co-op utilities, but then again, they are Co-ops which is an entirely different organization from a regulated utility.

Hahahaha! You'd waive a helicopter away! Hahahahaha! Yeah, okay...it's more like if you were stranded on your roof during a storm you would jump a ride on the first thing you thought could save your ass. Do not under estimate the power of fear and self preservation.