Steep approaches

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi all

One short flight I often take, one I fly when I'm a bit pressed for
time, is from Shoreham (EGKA) to London City (EGLC).

A landing at LCY, especially a landing on runway 10, requires an
approach far steeper than "normal".

No matter what I do I tend to pick up airspeed when descending into
runway 10. So, is there a prescribed or recommended way of approaching
steeply - flaps settings etc?

FWIW: EGLC
Runway Length Surface ILS ID ILS Freq. ILS Hdg.
10 3934 Concrete ILST 111.15 098
28 3934 Concrete ILSR 111.15 278

Cheers
James

 

[william]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dont know what aircraft you are in but a "slip" is a procedure that can be
used for quick descents without increase in airspeed. Basically its cross
controlling while staying on the center line. Right wing down, with left
rudder applied. Also take into account wind direction to ensure wing down is
into the wind. SO you can have either a right or a left slip.
This is also taught for cross wind landings as an alternative to just
crabbing with rudder.
Bill


"James Hodson" <jUNDERSCOREhodson@ntlworld.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:unfn7153ecu89nj1miqdlus1d2s0p6raia@4ax.com...
> Hi all
>
> One short flight I often take, one I fly when I'm a bit pressed for
> time, is from Shoreham (EGKA) to London City (EGLC).
>
> A landing at LCY, especially a landing on runway 10, requires an
> approach far steeper than "normal".
>
> No matter what I do I tend to pick up airspeed when descending into
> runway 10. So, is there a prescribed or recommended way of approaching
> steeply - flaps settings etc?
>
> FWIW: EGLC
> Runway Length Surface ILS ID ILS Freq. ILS Hdg.
> 10 3934 Concrete ILST 111.15 098
> 28 3934 Concrete ILSR 111.15 278
>
> Cheers
> James

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I have had fairly good success with a forward slip (of sorts) with
Dreamfleet and some other free planes too. The true sideslip (i.e. sidestep
to alternate runway) well that's a different story. Maybe I use too much
rudder.

Mr. Steve


"William" <alone@home.com> wrote in message
newsGPee.3583$eJ4.622@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
> Dont know what aircraft you are in but a "slip" is a procedure that can be
> used for quick descents without increase in airspeed. Basically its cross
> controlling while staying on the center line. Right wing down, with left
> rudder applied. Also take into account wind direction to ensure wing down
> is into the wind. SO you can have either a right or a left slip.
> This is also taught for cross wind landings as an alternative to just
> crabbing with rudder.
> Bill
>
>
> "James Hodson" <jUNDERSCOREhodson@ntlworld.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:unfn7153ecu89nj1miqdlus1d2s0p6raia@4ax.com...
>> Hi all
>>
>> One short flight I often take, one I fly when I'm a bit pressed for
>> time, is from Shoreham (EGKA) to London City (EGLC).
>>
>> A landing at LCY, especially a landing on runway 10, requires an
>> approach far steeper than "normal".
>>
>> No matter what I do I tend to pick up airspeed when descending into
>> runway 10. So, is there a prescribed or recommended way of approaching
>> steeply - flaps settings etc?
>>
>> FWIW: EGLC
>> Runway Length Surface ILS ID ILS Freq. ILS Hdg.
>> 10 3934 Concrete ILST 111.15 098
>> 28 3934 Concrete ILSR 111.15 278
>>
>> Cheers
>> James
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Depends on what aircraft, but I wd recommend always Full Flap and cut
engine/s to idle once you are lined up.



Cheers,

Quilly











An individual reply goes into my spam filter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 6 May 2005 19:23:33 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Depends on what aircraft, but I wd recommend always Full Flap and cut
>engine/s to idle once you are lined up.

Almost always Cessna 172 with little/zero power but occasionally
Cessna Grand Caravan (either version). The Grand Caravan is easier to
land, IMO. (Those floats with the wheels UP certainly help whenever I
fly the amphibious plane.)

The answer would seem to be more/maximum flaps. Alternatively, hefty
passangers or ballast!

James

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> A landing at LCY, especially a landing on runway 10, requires an
> approach far steeper than "normal".
>
> No matter what I do I tend to pick up airspeed when descending into
> runway 10. So, is there a prescribed or recommended way of approaching
> steeply - flaps settings etc?

Flaps are used to increase angle of descent without increasing airpseed.
So... I would increase flap extension as required to achieve desired
descent angle at proper approach speed. Also reduce throttle setting... to
idle if necessary. I am not familiar with LCY, so this is just general
thoughts.

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 6 May 2005 15:38:19 -0400, "William" <alone@home.com> wrote:

>Dont know what aircraft you are in but a "slip" is a procedure that can be
>used for quick descents without increase in airspeed. Basically its cross
>controlling while staying on the center line. Right wing down, with left
>rudder applied. Also take into account wind direction to ensure wing down is
>into the wind. SO you can have either a right or a left slip.
>This is also taught for cross wind landings as an alternative to just
>crabbing with rudder.

Hi Bill

Thanks for that.

I do know know what a "slip" is and haw to do one (sort of!). However,
I don't currently have any rudder pedals or a joystick with a
twist-grip. I'm loathe to use the keyboard for rudder control. So, for
now, I'm stuck with no wind and straight-in landings.

As Mike Flyin'8 and Quilly state, max flaps and low/zero throttle
would seem to be the answer. Alternatively, I suppose I could ignore
ATC and land on the easier, wrong runway or just choose a different
airport altogether.

Cheers
James

 

[crash]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

James Hodson wrote:
>
> I do know know what a "slip" is and haw to do one (sort of!). However,


I haven't found anything in FS that does a decent (descent!) slip yet, so
don't worry about it... Maybe a payware somewhere, but the defaults are
bummers for this.................

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi CRaSH,

On Fri, 6 May 2005 17:28:17 -0500, you wrote:

> I haven't found anything in FS that does a decent (descent!) slip
> yet, so don't worry about it... Maybe a payware somewhere, but the
> defaults are bummers for this.................

The RealAir planes I have seem to slip quite nicely.

- --
Melissa

PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/

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[GREGORY]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 6 May 2005 17:28:17 -0500, "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com>
brought the following to our attention:

>James Hodson wrote:
>>
>> I do know know what a "slip" is and haw to do one (sort of!). However,
>
>
>I haven't found anything in FS that does a decent slip yet, so don't worry
>about it... Maybe a payware somewhere.. the defaults are bummers for this.
>

Oooooh ... you need to edit the FD then!! { smile }


-G

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Melissa,

How do you sideslip. I can only do the forward slip. All I can think of is
that I use too much rudder and always end up in a forward slip...of course
for me getting lined up is easier than my altitude...I am often to high so
the forward slip comes in handy...to often though. I need to do more prep
before I fly I guess...like the destination runway altitude or even pattern
altitude...duh. You'd think I'd know better by now.

My buddy the CFI that was teaching me IRL took a job flying a
Gulfstream...for Phil Mickelson. He will be moving to San Diego soon.
There goes my license I think.

Mr. Steve of Deer Valley - KDVT

"Lawn Dart" <willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:10foa22k1y1me$.dlg@uni-berlin.de...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Hi CRaSH,
>
> On Fri, 6 May 2005 17:28:17 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> I haven't found anything in FS that does a decent (descent!) slip
>> yet, so don't worry about it... Maybe a payware somewhere, but the
>> defaults are bummers for this.................
>
> The RealAir planes I have seem to slip quite nicely.
>
> - --
> Melissa
>
> PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> iQCVAwUBQnvv6jEYqNTZBqoEAQNvfQP/YLupdqH7R7mmLtTuYuw6vRrN7DI4pHTs
> 8XBvwXdrgvCY369/w7C/tlv+VGvBVpupBXghzMM3Ven2/XDl+QXR2g0Su2L3j8V/
> VJs4k6xWd0g+RLQU1H+V6eIWQRuso4AQRMW6NvVQOdY5Dqiw3jgTN+kp5RViD46k
> Nx474GaB7sQ=
> =3F6a
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 6 May 2005 17:28:17 -0500, "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com>
wrote:

>I haven't found anything in FS that does a decent (descent!) slip yet, so
>don't worry about it... Maybe a payware somewhere, but the defaults are
>bummers for this.................

Crash

D'you want to combine our intellect (almost certainly you) and stupid
optimism (most probably me) and rob one of the larger, richer banks?

James

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Basically, there's no difference between a side slip and a forward slip and
it's confusing to try and define them as different maneuvers. Both are
performed into the wind. The only difference is in the effect you allow the
wind to have on the aircraft's direction. You can allow enough wind
correction to hold the airplane in line with a runway in front of you
(forward) or you could simply be allowing enough correction to have the
airplane crabbing toward a runway off to your side (side)
A slip is a slip is a slip........or is that a rose
You can perform a slip in a zero wind, or you can do one into the wind. The
variations are many, but the main thing to remember is that you lower a
wing(without wind pick one) or with wind, the wing into the wind. Then you
apply just enough opposite rudder to keep the airplane from turning.
(without opposite rudder, BANK will cause the aircraft to turn into the low
wing. But you're not finished yet.........now you need to control the
airspeed. You do this in PITCH, by controlling the nose attitude to give you
the airspeed desired.
The airspeed indicator in real life in a slip is not as reliable as it is
out of the slip due to cross wind on the pitot tube, so pay attention to the
nose attitude for your airspeed. Anything around 80mph in a light GA
airplane is fine.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash
"Mr. Steve" <surveyorsteve@cox.net> wrote in message
news:OKUee.28616$_K.23391@fed1read03...
> Melissa,
>
> How do you sideslip. I can only do the forward slip. All I can think of
> is that I use too much rudder and always end up in a forward slip...of
> course for me getting lined up is easier than my altitude...I am often to
> high so the forward slip comes in handy...to often though. I need to do
> more prep before I fly I guess...like the destination runway altitude or
> even pattern altitude...duh. You'd think I'd know better by now.
>
> My buddy the CFI that was teaching me IRL took a job flying a
> Gulfstream...for Phil Mickelson. He will be moving to San Diego soon.
> There goes my license I think.
>
> Mr. Steve of Deer Valley - KDVT
>
> "Lawn Dart" <willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:10foa22k1y1me$.dlg@uni-berlin.de...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>
>> Hi CRaSH,
>>
>> On Fri, 6 May 2005 17:28:17 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't found anything in FS that does a decent (descent!) slip
>>> yet, so don't worry about it... Maybe a payware somewhere, but the
>>> defaults are bummers for this.................
>>
>> The RealAir planes I have seem to slip quite nicely.
>>
>> - --
>> Melissa
>>
>> PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>> iQCVAwUBQnvv6jEYqNTZBqoEAQNvfQP/YLupdqH7R7mmLtTuYuw6vRrN7DI4pHTs
>> 8XBvwXdrgvCY369/w7C/tlv+VGvBVpupBXghzMM3Ven2/XDl+QXR2g0Su2L3j8V/
>> VJs4k6xWd0g+RLQU1H+V6eIWQRuso4AQRMW6NvVQOdY5Dqiw3jgTN+kp5RViD46k
>> Nx474GaB7sQ=
>> =3F6a
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Mr. D

Thanks. Now how about the rest of my story.... ... CFI and all...my
instructor, seeins we were good friends and all, gave me a real good deal on
lessons...free. I could almost afford that...rental and all. Now ... well I
hope my dream doesn't fade away.

I figure if I can practice a lot on the sim, I may pick up IRL a little
easier. From the flying I've done in 152s up to 182s, it seems IRL is a
little easier.

Mr. Steve

"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
news:9uWee.4699$pe3.1339@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Basically, there's no difference between a side slip and a forward slip
> and it's confusing to try and define them as different maneuvers. Both are
> performed into the wind. The only difference is in the effect you allow
> the wind to have on the aircraft's direction. You can allow enough wind
> correction to hold the airplane in line with a runway in front of you
> (forward) or you could simply be allowing enough correction to have the
> airplane crabbing toward a runway off to your side (side)
> A slip is a slip is a slip........or is that a rose
> You can perform a slip in a zero wind, or you can do one into the wind.
> The variations are many, but the main thing to remember is that you lower
> a wing(without wind pick one) or with wind, the wing into the wind. Then
> you apply just enough opposite rudder to keep the airplane from turning.
> (without opposite rudder, BANK will cause the aircraft to turn into the
> low wing. But you're not finished yet.........now you need to control the
> airspeed. You do this in PITCH, by controlling the nose attitude to give
> you the airspeed desired.
> The airspeed indicator in real life in a slip is not as reliable as it is
> out of the slip due to cross wind on the pitot tube, so pay attention to
> the nose attitude for your airspeed. Anything around 80mph in a light GA
> airplane is fine.
> Dudley Henriques
> International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
> Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
> dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
> (take out the trash
> "Mr. Steve" <surveyorsteve@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:OKUee.28616$_K.23391@fed1read03...
>> Melissa,
>>
>> How do you sideslip. I can only do the forward slip. All I can think of
>> is that I use too much rudder and always end up in a forward slip...of
>> course for me getting lined up is easier than my altitude...I am often to
>> high so the forward slip comes in handy...to often though. I need to do
>> more prep before I fly I guess...like the destination runway altitude or
>> even pattern altitude...duh. You'd think I'd know better by now.
>>
>> My buddy the CFI that was teaching me IRL took a job flying a
>> Gulfstream...for Phil Mickelson. He will be moving to San Diego soon.
>> There goes my license I think.
>>
>> Mr. Steve of Deer Valley - KDVT
>>
>> "Lawn Dart" <willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote in message
>> news:10foa22k1y1me$.dlg@uni-berlin.de...
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>>
>>> Hi CRaSH,
>>>
>>> On Fri, 6 May 2005 17:28:17 -0500, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> I haven't found anything in FS that does a decent (descent!) slip
>>>> yet, so don't worry about it... Maybe a payware somewhere, but the
>>>> defaults are bummers for this.................
>>>
>>> The RealAir planes I have seem to slip quite nicely.
>>>
>>> - --
>>> Melissa
>>>
>>> PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/
>>>
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>
>>> iQCVAwUBQnvv6jEYqNTZBqoEAQNvfQP/YLupdqH7R7mmLtTuYuw6vRrN7DI4pHTs
>>> 8XBvwXdrgvCY369/w7C/tlv+VGvBVpupBXghzMM3Ven2/XDl+QXR2g0Su2L3j8V/
>>> VJs4k6xWd0g+RLQU1H+V6eIWQRuso4AQRMW6NvVQOdY5Dqiw3jgTN+kp5RViD46k
>>> Nx474GaB7sQ=
>>> =3F6a
>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I don't think I can be any more specific than I have been about the sim.
Use it by all means if you like it, but be aware of the limitations as I
have stated them to you. When and if you begin flight training, you should
check with your instructor about using the simulator. Untill then...sim away

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash
"Mr. Steve" <surveyorsteve@cox.net> wrote in message
news:zvXee.30375$_K.8640@fed1read03...
> Mr. D
>
> Thanks. Now how about the rest of my story.... ... CFI and all...my
> instructor, seeins we were good friends and all, gave me a real good deal
> on lessons...free. I could almost afford that...rental and all. Now ...
> well I hope my dream doesn't fade away.
>
> I figure if I can practice a lot on the sim, I may pick up IRL a little
> easier. From the flying I've done in 152s up to 182s, it seems IRL is a
> little easier.
>
> Mr. Steve
>
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
> news:9uWee.4699$pe3.1339@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> Basically, there's no difference between a side slip and a forward slip
>> and it's confusing to try and define them as different maneuvers. Both
>> are performed into the wind. The only difference is in the effect you
>> allow the wind to have on the aircraft's direction. You can allow enough
>> wind correction to hold the airplane in line with a runway in front of
>> you (forward) or you could simply be allowing enough correction to have
>> the airplane crabbing toward a runway off to your side (side)
>> A slip is a slip is a slip........or is that a rose
>> You can perform a slip in a zero wind, or you can do one into the wind.
>> The variations are many, but the main thing to remember is that you lower
>> a wing(without wind pick one) or with wind, the wing into the wind. Then
>> you apply just enough opposite rudder to keep the airplane from turning.
>> (without opposite rudder, BANK will cause the aircraft to turn into the
>> low wing. But you're not finished yet.........now you need to control the
>> airspeed. You do this in PITCH, by controlling the nose attitude to give
>> you the airspeed desired.
>> The airspeed indicator in real life in a slip is not as reliable as it is
>> out of the slip due to cross wind on the pitot tube, so pay attention to
>> the nose attitude for your airspeed. Anything around 80mph in a light GA
>> airplane is fine.
>> Dudley Henriques
>> International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
>> Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
>> dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
>> (take out the trash
>> "Mr. Steve" <surveyorsteve@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:OKUee.28616$_K.23391@fed1read03...
>>> Melissa,
>>>
>>> How do you sideslip. I can only do the forward slip. All I can think
>>> of is that I use too much rudder and always end up in a forward
>>> slip...of course for me getting lined up is easier than my altitude...I
>>> am often to high so the forward slip comes in handy...to often though.
>>> I need to do more prep before I fly I guess...like the destination
>>> runway altitude or even pattern altitude...duh. You'd think I'd know
>>> better by now.
>>>
>>> My buddy the CFI that was teaching me IRL took a job flying a
>>> Gulfstream...for Phil Mickelson. He will be moving to San Diego soon.
>>> There goes my license I think.
>>>
>>> Mr. Steve of Deer Valley - KDVT
>>>
>>> "Lawn Dart" <willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote in message
>>> news:10foa22k1y1me$.dlg@uni-berlin.de...
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>>>
>>>> Hi CRaSH,
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 6 May 2005 17:28:17 -0500, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I haven't found anything in FS that does a decent (descent!) slip
>>>>> yet, so don't worry about it... Maybe a payware somewhere, but the
>>>>> defaults are bummers for this.................
>>>>
>>>> The RealAir planes I have seem to slip quite nicely.
>>>>
>>>> - --
>>>> Melissa
>>>>
>>>> PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/
>>>>
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>
>>>> iQCVAwUBQnvv6jEYqNTZBqoEAQNvfQP/YLupdqH7R7mmLtTuYuw6vRrN7DI4pHTs
>>>> 8XBvwXdrgvCY369/w7C/tlv+VGvBVpupBXghzMM3Ven2/XDl+QXR2g0Su2L3j8V/
>>>> VJs4k6xWd0g+RLQU1H+V6eIWQRuso4AQRMW6NvVQOdY5Dqiw3jgTN+kp5RViD46k
>>>> Nx474GaB7sQ=
>>>> =3F6a
>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

You can get a lot from the sim towards your PPL, stuff like what the dials
do and some instrument flying plus general familiarisation with aviation.
What you will not get ,and this is where you really must keep flying IRL, is
the sudden terror factor and all round airmanship such as keeping a lookout.
It is so easy in the sim to become fixated on the panel and the view ahead.

Good luck, I am sure you will make it.


Cheers,

Quilly











An individual reply goes into my spam filter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

How true. It is easy to get used the fact you can crash in sim and keep on
quilling as soon as it restarts...

I have 19 hrs so far but since I moved away from my CFI buddy, if has been
several months since my last airtime. I sure do miss it. At least if I can
get licensed, I can rent a plane every now and then.

Thanks for the response

Mr. Steve of Deer Valley - KDVT

"Quilljar" <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d5hsc7$1es$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> You can get a lot from the sim towards your PPL, stuff like what the dials
> do and some instrument flying plus general familiarisation with aviation.
> What you will not get ,and this is where you really must keep flying IRL,
> is the sudden terror factor and all round airmanship such as keeping a
> lookout.
> It is so easy in the sim to become fixated on the panel and the view
> ahead.
>
> Good luck, I am sure you will make it.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Quilly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> An individual reply goes into my spam filter
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 06 May 2005 19:05:33 -0400, Gregory
<flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote:

>Oooooh ... you need to edit the FD then!! { smile }

As much as I've tried searching both my PC and the internet I cannot
find the file ATM.cfg Time to watch Terminator 2 again.

James

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Others recommended use of flaps. That helps to lower your
speed, but it's not the key thing you should be using to control
airspeed. What you want to do is increase the angle of attack
of the wing. That makes the airfoil less efficient and will
have the effect of lowering airspeed.

The way I like to think about it is that you use engine power to
control your rate of descent, and use elevator at a given rate of
descent to control angle of attack (and hence airspeed). Cut
your engines to the point where your flight path takes you to a
point before the runway threshold starts. Now pull back on
elevator and adjust so that you are pointing at the numbers on
the threshold. Notice the airspeed lowering as a result? Not
low enough? Reduce engine power some more, and now increase
your pull on elevator, and keep the plane pointed at the numbers.
Notice the airspeed going lower still? Every time you increase
elevator you are increasing angle of attack, and decreasing
airspeed. Once you have set up the approach to the correct
airspeed, then you can use

Note that I'm not a licensed pilot, not a flight instructor, and
I'm sure others with more experience can fill in the missing
details better than I could.

--
Will
Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com

"James Hodson" <jUNDERSCOREhodson@ntlworld.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:unfn7153ecu89nj1miqdlus1d2s0p6raia@4ax.com...
> Hi all
>
> One short flight I often take, one I fly when I'm a bit pressed
for
> time, is from Shoreham (EGKA) to London City (EGLC).
>
> A landing at LCY, especially a landing on runway 10, requires
an
> approach far steeper than "normal".
>
> No matter what I do I tend to pick up airspeed when descending
into
> runway 10. So, is there a prescribed or recommended way of
approaching
> steeply - flaps settings etc?
>
> FWIW: EGLC
> Runway Length Surface ILS ID ILS Freq. ILS Hdg.
> 10 3934 Concrete ILST 111.15 098
> 28 3934 Concrete ILSR 111.15 278
>
> Cheers
> James

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:49:28 -0700, "Will"
<DELETE_westes@earthbroadcast.com> wrote:

>Others recommended use of flaps. That helps to lower your
>speed, but it's not the key thing you should be using to control
>airspeed. What you want to do is increase the angle of attack
>of the wing. That makes the airfoil less efficient and will
>have the effect of lowering airspeed.
>
>The way I like to think about it is that you use engine power to
>control your rate of descent, and use elevator at a given rate of
>descent to control angle of attack (and hence airspeed). Cut
>your engines to the point where your flight path takes you to a
>point before the runway threshold starts. Now pull back on
>elevator and adjust so that you are pointing at the numbers on
>the threshold. Notice the airspeed lowering as a result? Not
>low enough? Reduce engine power some more, and now increase
>your pull on elevator, and keep the plane pointed at the numbers.
>Notice the airspeed going lower still? Every time you increase
>elevator you are increasing angle of attack, and decreasing
>airspeed. Once you have set up the approach to the correct
>airspeed, then you can use
>
>Note that I'm not a licensed pilot, not a flight instructor, and
>I'm sure others with more experience can fill in the missing
>details better than I could.

Hi Will

Many thanks for that info.

I think it's a case of try both methods alone and then attempt a
mixture of both combined.

I am quite capable of steepening my approach should te need arise.
However, I specifically mentioned London City (EGLC) because the
approach is steep all the way down.

To date, no power and loads of flaps does work.

Cheers
James

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

What Will says is largely true, But at those low speeds you must be very
careful not to stall. For this you need as much engine on as you can manage,
giving plenty of airflow over the wings. Thus full flaps will delay your
stall speed, give you a steeper angle, and a bit more power to control the
aircraft. Three good reasons to use them.


I may quill about during my flight, but I am very careful when landing. Once
IRL, on an approach directly into sun, I foolishly asked my passenger in
the right hand seat to hold a map up to shade my eyes like a peaked cap. The
silly prat held it OVER my eyes and I couldn't see a darned thing!
As I had full flaps and plenty of power in hand and was already settled
into the groove, the plane landed itself! The underpants took a bashing I
can tell you!

Cheers,

Quilly











An individual reply goes into my spam filter

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 12:49:28 -0700, "Will"
<DELETE_westes@earthbroadcast.com> wrote:

>Others recommended use of flaps. That helps to lower your
>speed, but it's not the key thing you should be using to control
>airspeed. What you want to do is increase the angle of attack
>of the wing. That makes the airfoil less efficient and will
>have the effect of lowering airspeed.
>
>The way I like to think about it is that you use engine power to
>control your rate of descent, and use elevator at a given rate of
>descent to control angle of attack (and hence airspeed). Cut
>your engines to the point where your flight path takes you to a
>point before the runway threshold starts. Now pull back on
>elevator and adjust so that you are pointing at the numbers on
>the threshold. Notice the airspeed lowering as a result? Not
>low enough? Reduce engine power some more, and now increase
>your pull on elevator, and keep the plane pointed at the numbers.
>Notice the airspeed going lower still? Every time you increase
>elevator you are increasing angle of attack, and decreasing
>airspeed. Once you have set up the approach to the correct
>airspeed, then you can use
>
>Note that I'm not a licensed pilot, not a flight instructor, and
>I'm sure others with more experience can fill in the missing
>details better than I could.

The elevator's job is to control airspeed. You want to set up a
certain airspeed that is within the safety margin for the aircraft, as
far as a recommended approach airspeed, usually by adjusting the
elevator trim for that speed. . You then adjust the throttle to
adjust your height on the approach path. If you are low, you increase
throttle, if you are high, you reduce throttle setting. You also keep
a spot in the approach end of the runway , fixed at one point in the
windscreen. If it drifts down, you are going to overshoot that spot
and need to reduce power, if it drifts low on the windscreen, you are
too low , and need to increase power.

If you have your elevator trim set for your recommended approach
speed, and you have power pulled all the way back, and that spot at
the approach end of the runway is still drifting lower in the
windscreen, get ready to abort the landing and go around, you are too
high.

If you would really like to learn about flying from a Bible on flying
that has been around for years and is recommended by most light
instructors, get a copy of Stick and Rudder. It has saved many pilots
lives............

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0070362408/102-5595016-7369732?v=glance

Bob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 21:33:53 +0000 (UTC), "Quilljar"
<wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>What Will says is largely true, But at those low speeds you must be very
>careful not to stall. For this you need as much engine on as you can manage,
>giving plenty of airflow over the wings. Thus full flaps will delay your
>stall speed, give you a steeper angle, and a bit more power to control the
>aircraft. Three good reasons to use them.
>
>
>I may quill about during my flight, but I am very careful when landing. Once
>IRL, on an approach directly into sun, I foolishly asked my passenger in
>the right hand seat to hold a map up to shade my eyes like a peaked cap. The
>silly prat held it OVER my eyes and I couldn't see a darned thing!
> As I had full flaps and plenty of power in hand and was already settled
>into the groove, the plane landed itself! The underpants took a bashing I
>can tell you!
>

Ta Quilly

Perhaps the ability to alter the prop pitch explains why I find the
steepies easier in a Grand Road Blocker than I do in the 172.

Not being a Quiller myself I couldn't possibly comment. However, I do
try to plan my flights to include as many take offs, ascents, descents
and landings (mos usually in that order) as possible.

Re the shades: Doh!

James

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 22:14:40 GMT, Bob Cordone <nospam@mindspring.com>
wrote:

[SNIP]

>
> The elevator's job is to control airspeed. You want to set up a
>certain airspeed that is within the safety margin for the aircraft, as
>far as a recommended approach airspeed, usually by adjusting the
>elevator trim for that speed.

[SNIP]

>If you have your elevator trim set for your recommended approach
>speed, and you have power pulled all the way back, and that spot at
>the approach end of the runway is still drifting lower in the
>windscreen, get ready to abort the landing and go around, you are too
>high.
>

[SNIP and thanks re biblical referrence]

Hi Bob

I am aware of the seemingly topsy-turvy method of controlling ones
descent angle and speed, but thanks anyway.

The info about "you really should go around, James" is useful

I initially posed the question to see if I could glean some
information specifically about steeper than normal approaches.

Regards
James

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

What do you mean by "I am aware of the seemingly topsy-turvy
method of controlling ones descent angle and speed...."
Honestly, that sentence makes no sense. And one really gets the
feeling in reading both your initial question and your responses,
that you don't quite get the point at all.

Someone who simply sets flaps and cuts engine to get the correct
descent angle isn't flying the airplane. The airplane is flying
you. That method of descent will result in lots of unnecessary
porpoising, and if you enter into the descent at high speed, the
flaps alone simply won't be enough to keep your airspeed down.
Deploying flaps brings down airspeed, and then cutting throttle
brings it right back up as your descent angle increases. Until
you can feel the connection between elevator and airspeed and
make that almost second nature, you won't be in command of the
airspeed on your descent.

Bob's advice is the best advice in this thread: go buy "Stick
and Rudder" and spend a month absorbing it. Practice the
principals there in the simulator. That book is almost like a
philosophy of flying. The author deeply feels key principles of
flight and communicates them in extremely clear language, and I
haven't found another text that approaches it. Books like "Fly
the Wing" are highly scientific approaches and would be great for
an advanced hours ATP commercial pilot, but for anyone with under
500 hours I don't think you can do better than "Stick and
Rudder."

--
Will
Internet: westes at earthbroadcast.com


"James Hodson" <jUNDERSCOREhodson@ntlworld.com.invalid> wrote in
message news:bthm81p7vh8ouv5okn6me8cdpep6nbguv6@4ax.com...
>Bob Cordone wrote:
> > The elevator's job is to control airspeed. You want to set up
a
> >certain airspeed that is within the safety margin for the
aircraft, as
> >far as a recommended approach airspeed, usually by adjusting
the
> >elevator trim for that speed.
>
> I am aware of the seemingly topsy-turvy method of controlling
ones
> descent angle and speed, but thanks anyway.