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Thermaltake SOPRANO VB1000BWS, temp problems

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February 23, 2006 11:08:58 PM

Hi my current specs.

MotherBoard: Asus P5LD2 Deluxe
temps: idle 33C, when gaming 44C, is that normal?

Video Card: ATI X850XT
temps: idle 36C, when gaming 60C or maybe a little more.
cooling: Zalman VF700-Cu

CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3.4GHZ LGA 775
temps: idle at 43C and load at 65C
cooling: Zalman CNPS9500 LED

I think the video card is pretty good at its temperatures, the only thing that is concering me is the motherboard and CPU. I think its the case that is not doing a good job in air flow. I noticed when i had the motherboard outside the case and installed the zalman cooler on the cpu that its max was 57C. for anyone that owns this case, do you have this kind of issue? thank you.
February 24, 2006 12:11:26 AM

when u buy a p4 u pay for the heat. p4's run hotter, thats normal or very close to normal temps, maybe try sleeving ur cables for a bit better airflow but u wont get a hole lot colder than that without a upgrade to watercooling or a bigger hsf... p4 will throttle before it shuts itself off completly so it doesnt burn out... the die temp of a p4 is close to 100C and they dont trottle till 80C i believe... if ur room is cold now and u live where the summer is very hot u might wanna consider a bigger hsf... but otehr than that dont worry about it
February 25, 2006 3:38:51 AM

what about the motherboard, do you think that is normal temperature for that? It seems a bit too hot to me, for a motherboard, but than i don't know what is normal temps for a motherboard. so what do you think?
Related resources
February 25, 2006 4:47:45 AM

Parlee said:

Quote:
when u buy a p4 u pay for the heat. p4's run hotter, thats normal or very close to normal temps, maybe try sleeving ur cables for a bit better airflow but u wont get a hole lot colder than that without a upgrade to watercooling or a bigger hsf... p4 will throttle before it shuts itself off completly so it doesnt burn out... the die temp of a p4 is close to 100C and they dont trottle till 80C i believe... if ur room is cold now and u live where the summer is very hot u might wanna consider a bigger hsf... but otehr than that dont worry about it


What a bucket of bulls_it! :lol:  :lol:  :o 

P4's run hotter - crap

You don't even know what processor tiger102 has and its features!

tiger102 already has a good cooler, bigger HSF my ar_e!

100C die temp 80C throttle temp where did you read this crap? On a AMD fanboy site?

How about you sleeve yourself in a shower to wash away the bull and give yourself a big HSF up your a_se.

How can you give such crappy advice?


Tiger 102

What series of P4 processor is it?

Is it a 5xx series or a 6xx series or what?

Here are some specs for single cores:

http://www.intel.com/cd/channel/reseller/asmo-na/eng/pr...

1) Do u have a fanmate controller with the CNPS9500 cooler?
2) Is the cpu fan running at low or full speed?
3) Is the controller connected correctly?
4) Have u cleaned the dust from it?
5) Is the HSF seated on the processor correctly?
6) Did u use too much thermal paste
7) Are the case fans running in the case and at what speed?

:D 
February 25, 2006 6:18:08 AM

First you post on the PC Cases???with CPU and MB question

ASUS P5GD1 Pro and i have this temps
Idle 35-37(depending on room temp)
full load 41-43
P4 630 with 2 aditional fans on the CPU panell and from the front side others 2,with stock HSF.
Idle 40-42
Load 52-56
But the Prescott is technical design to run at a higher temp and higher frequency.
Intel recommendation is : the interior temp of the case to be max 38 C.
February 25, 2006 6:34:58 AM

Now i see you have for cooling: Zalman CNPS9500 LED
In this case:
Did you use Arctic Silver 5?
Did you install corectly the new cooler?
You have a good air flow?
What is your case ambiant temp?
February 25, 2006 2:30:21 PM

considering those are the same temps as my amd clawhammer, and clawhammers are said to be one of the hottest amd processors (in the 64 area) and his 3.4 p4, and knowing that most p4's run hotter, i told him that those are "normal" temps, meaning its not going to overheat and kill his family, just dont worry about it until it crashers or throttles. the mobo temp is normal/above average, mine never goes over 35, but 44 is nothing to be concerned about, and it could be a misread, if its a cheaper mobo they tend to have bad readings. i also said (which is what im gonig to be doing) in the summer if it gets hot u may wanna consider even better cooling or if u can spare the perforamnce, underclocking it, because at 66C if its winter, and u live anywhere that gets warm, then u may be close to the throttlin temp, which means the proc underclocks to 2800mhz...
February 25, 2006 8:32:06 PM

1) Do u have a fanmate controller with the CNPS9500 cooler?
yes
2) Is the cpu fan running at low or full speed?
full speed
3) Is the controller connected correctly?
yes
4) Have u cleaned the dust from it?
there is no dust on the cpu HSF
5) Is the HSF seated on the processor correctly?
I believe so, i have took the hsf once and put it on again, still the same temps
6) Did u use too much thermal paste
when i take out the hsf, i do see thermal past on the side of the cpu, but i think thats because when i take the hsf out i must move the hsf around a little bit, therefore its moving the past to the sides of the cpu.
7) Are the case fans running in the case and at what speed?
1. i have an antec power supply, and its fan runs at 1188 rpm.
2. front fan which is 120mm runs at 1350rpm, with fliter infront of it
3. back fan which is 120mm runs at 1350rpm or less by a bit.
4. side fan, i can't tell you because there is no sensor, so i can't get a reading. but what i have done with the side fan is put another fan infront of it which spens at 2900rpm. and this side fan has a filter as well.
5. PCI slot fan that suppost to run at 3200rpm, which i can't really test if it is running at that speed, but i believe it is. this fan is bringing out air. also this fan is put in the last slot, and the Video card is like 3 or 4 slots away from it.

this is all what i can tell you about the fans in the system.
February 25, 2006 8:33:45 PM

i posted here, because i though the case is casing these tempertures. so this is the reason for me posting it here. but thanks for the info about the motherboard and your cpu.
February 25, 2006 8:42:01 PM

1. Did you use Arctic Silver 5?
yes
2. Did you install corectly the new cooler?
I believe so. I have reinstalled it twice, same results no difference. so i think i am doing it correctly. But i got to say i think installing this hsf is a bit tricky. But from what i see i think the hsf is right on top of the cpu.
3. You have a good air flow?
i think so, i have a 120mm fan in the buttom front, which has a filter infront of it that brings in air. and i also have a side fan which brings in air, whcih also has a filter infront of it. I think the air flow is good. but who knows. you have any suggestion of how i can test this?
4. What is your case ambiant temp?
i know when my room is cold, the temps are pretty good, but once it gets warm or hot, thats when temps go up. which is understandable, but i think the case somewhat is not providing air enough, or maybe the filters are not allowing it to push in alot of fresh air.
February 25, 2006 8:43:33 PM

oops, forgot to answer you question, it's the 5xx series.
February 26, 2006 7:26:31 AM

It may be one more problem.With the stock fan did you have the same temp(almost)?
There are problems with the socket,if you uninstall one more time the cooler look after(very very carefuly and open-eyed)the metal plate who cover the cpu if is right without difference from a side to another or deform, to have full contact with the cpu and with the cooler.(1mm is enough) to not make full contact with the cooler.
The cooler if is tight on the cpu surface.
Remember the socket 775 supports only 20 guarantee installation.
You can make pictures of it with a performance camera for a good analyse

Lets presume that you have a bad air flow,if you remove the panels side to side you have the same temps?(Full load)
The PSU its very hot and could transfer the hot air to the cpu cooler(if is very close of him)
February 26, 2006 7:58:35 AM

Tiger102 said:

Quote:
4. side fan, i can't tell you because there is no sensor, so i can't get a reading. but what i have done with the side fan is put another fan infront of it which spens at 2900rpm. and this side fan has a filter as well.


The side intake fan on a Soprano is a 90x90x25mm at 1800rpm.

Are you saying that the side fan has two fans one on top of the other?

Is the side fan blowing into the case or is it sucking air out of the case?

Tiger102 said:

Slot fan at 3200rpm.

Maybe this is sucking the air away from the cpu cooler?

Which 5xx is it in particular?
February 26, 2006 8:09:03 AM

dragosgorjan said:

Quote:
Lets presume that you have a bad air flow,if you remove the panels side to side you have the same temps?(Full load)


I agree with you.

I think the 120mm fans running at 1400rpm would not has sufficient CFM depending on the processor.

Sounds like (and I could be wrong) tiger has placed a faster rpm fan on the side cover over the top of a slower 1800rpm fan disrupting air flow. the slot fan could be taking air away from the cpu cooler.
February 26, 2006 8:41:36 AM

Tiger this is what I recommend you do.

1. Leave the front and rear fans that came with the case alone.

2. Make sure you only have one fan on the side drawing in air into the case, not one on top of another, if thats the case.

3. Remove the pci slot cooler that is taking the air out of the case and get one that draws air into the case, this will cool the graphics card much better.

Here is an example:

http://www.pccasegear.com/prod2852.htm

4. Make sure that the back of the cpu cooler is facing the rear 120mm fan so that the fan on the cooler draws air through the cooler and out through the rear fan.

Like this:

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=165&co...

5. Re check your temps then.

Hope this helps.
February 26, 2006 1:54:59 PM

1. "It may be one more problem.With the stock fan did you have the same temp(almost)?
There are problems with the socket,if you uninstall one more time the cooler look after(very very carefuly and open-eyed)the metal plate who cover the cpu if is right without difference from a side to another or deform"

I don't understand what you mean by here. sorry about that.

2. " to have full contact with the cpu and with the cooler.(1mm is enough) to not make full contact with the cooler.
The cooler if is tight on the cpu surface. "

Are you saying that if the cooler is tight on the cpu that it might not be making contact through the artic silver put through full contact with the cooler. If that's the case, this might be true because i tighten it until i could no more turn the screw. do you think i should of loosen.

3. "The PSU its very hot and could transfer the hot air to the cpu cooler(if is very close of him)"

i know for a fact when i put my hand on the back of the PSU, warm air comes out. and you could say that the cooler is close to the psu. this might be the problem.

4. "Lets presume that you have a bad air flow,if you remove the panels side to side you have the same temps?(Full load) "

i'll try this later. but let just say that the temps drop, than should i assume that the air flow is no good in the case?
February 26, 2006 2:06:18 PM

1. "Sounds like (and I could be wrong) tiger has placed a faster rpm fan on the side cover over the top of a slower 1800rpm fan disrupting air flow."

yes this is true. I think it helped cool down the CPU a bit. but i could take it out. and leave the stock fan on the side to run by itself. the reason why i put the faster fan on top of the stock fan on the side is because the side fan by itself is not drawing air enough with a filter infront of it, so i though by putting the faster fan on the slower one, that it might draw in more air.

you could also of said, well why didn't he just put the faster fan on the side, well the reason for that is that the faster fan is small, therefore it won't fit on the side.

2. "Make sure that the back of the cpu cooler is facing the rear 120mm fan so that the fan on the cooler draws air through the cooler and out through the rear fan. "

yep this is how it is right now.

3. "the slot fan could be taking air away from the cpu cooler."

the slot fan is farther away from the cpu cooler, its on the last slot on the buttom. and also i don't think this is the case because it was the same with the slot fan or without it.

4. "Is the side fan blowing into the case or is it sucking air out of the case?"

it's bringing in air.

5. "Which 5xx is it in particular?"

well its 3.4GHZ therefore it should be the 550 version.
February 26, 2006 2:15:13 PM

which do you think is better:

Antec VCool Expansion Slot VGA Cooler

or

Azenx Blitztorm System Cooler

The "Azenx Blitztorm System Cooler", this one i have seen in my local store, so i think it would be a faster to buy and try it.
February 26, 2006 6:38:34 PM

The p4 550 has a thermal spec of 72.8C and thermal design power of 115Watts.

It's going to run a little warmer from the start.


The Antec Vcool brings air into the case. Cool air which is then available for the graphics cards cooling solution.

The Azenx Blitztorm blower still draws air away from the graphics card.

The Antec Vcool is the better proposition.

If u remove the side panel and the temps drop substantially - this mean that the flow rate of air is insuficient - low. You need to look at the case fans and see if they push enough air through the case.

The front and back fans on the Soprano are fairly slower at 1400rpm which means they are a compromise between noise level and air flow. Generally speaking temps would be slightly higher.

In my setup I use a faster fan in the back than the one in the front. This draws air over the cpu cooler as well as removes the heat fast.

The reason why I said remove the present slot fan is IMO it is drawing air away that would normally flowed to the cpu cooler and out the back.

The psu should be drawing air out of the case. hot air rises.

Hope this helps.
February 26, 2006 6:55:25 PM

do you have the Soprano case?
February 26, 2006 7:10:31 PM

No I have an Antec Sonata.

I was going to buy one but I decided to use the Antec instead because I like the way you mount the hard drives from the side.

The fans on both cases are also located in similar oriantation.

The air flow principles are none the less the same for the majority of mid tower cases.


This is my setup

P4 640 3.2GHz 35.5C idle low 40's load
GA 6600 GT 52C idle 64C load
Antec Sonata 5 fans including psu and hsf
February 26, 2006 7:36:06 PM

You should replace the fans that comes with the case. The thermaltake fan are not that powerful but they are silent cuz of the lower rpm. I have the Tt Kandalf and I have replace the fans with much powerful ones and notice better air flow and lower temps in cpu, chipsets, mobo and graphics card. Also make that small side panel intake bigger and install a 120mm fan on it with an air duct to direct air towards the cpu hsf. That should get your cpu temps around 50-55c* full load which is normal for the p4. :D 
February 26, 2006 8:31:15 PM

making the side fan to 120mm, i don't think i can do that because i don't have the tools. and i would probably do a horriable job at it as well. But if i wanted to replace the thermaltake fans, what would you recommend. thank you.
February 26, 2006 8:36:26 PM

those are nice temps that you have. Could you tell me your room temps, just to see how hot it is in your room. Also are you using the antec slot fan that you recommended for me. I been looking for fans that i could put in the CD-ROM drive bay. I found harddrives coolers but those are not powerful, or too small. I want to use these fans to bring in cool air to the cooler of the CPU. i think it might help. so if you know any, please referer me to some. thank you.
February 26, 2006 10:03:30 PM

I have 2 systems.

The slot cooler is in the other one as the graphics card has a passive heatsink cooler. Works ok.

I agree with Chuckshissle about the front and rear 120mm fans. He's right.

Thanks worked hard to get the temps down. Air flow Air flow. Originally low 40's. Played with different fan combinations to get it that way. It's the end of summer where I am. The temp of 35.5C I quoted was the average temp in regard to ambiant temp during daytime with EIST enabled. It can go up to 38C idle on a hot day. Ambiant temps here currently between 25 to 30C during the day. Currently it's early morning here and the the cpu temp is 33.5C measured by a digital temp sensor.

I would not bother with the the cooling solutions that fit into a drive bay.

I would instead look for 120mm fans that have a decent air flow rate, rated in CFM - the higher the better but louder.

Same goes for the fan on the cover. Replace it with one of a higher CFM but the same size.

Here's a link to fans, its where I am but it gives you an idea:

http://www.pccasegear.com/category9_1.htm

I have a combination of 120mm Vantec Stealth-front and Antec-rear with a 80mm SilenX on the cover which I added.

My advice is to start with the rear fan first as this will draw air through the cpu cooler and lower the temp the most.

Hope this helps you.
February 28, 2006 1:53:49 AM

Hi, when i replace those 120 mm fans, what rpm should i get. I'm thinking around 2000 rpm, or maybe 2500 rpm, because anything higher would probably be too noisy, that's what i think. But what rpm do you recommend that i should get. thank you.
March 2, 2006 2:05:47 AM

hi, the other person didn't respond to my feedback. what what you suggest? just read the thread before this. thank you.
March 2, 2006 2:45:01 AM

I would look for 120mm fans that have a decent air flow rate, rated in CFM (Cubic Feet Per Minute) - the higher the better but louder.

Same goes for the fan on the cover. Replace it with one of a higher CFM(Cubic Feet per Minute) but the same size.

RPM is not that important, only for the the noise factor. Air moving through the case is the most critical thing hence more CFM needed. Depending on the fan blade design slower means less CFM.

Here's a link to fans, its where I am but it gives you an idea:

http://www.pccasegear.com/category9_1.htm

My advice is to start with the rear fan first as this will draw air through the cpu cooler and lower the temp the most.

If you change all the fans to a higher rating RPM/CFM and they are too loud then you can always get a fan controller to tweak the speeds - Slow down or speed up all or individual fans - and still maintain decent case temps.

Thats the way I do it.
March 2, 2006 3:12:27 AM

I built my wife's computer in that case. If you are only using the fans that came with it. You might look inside the case and see if there is another spot for a fan and install one or two. I noticed her computer runs hotter than mine in that case. If all the spots that take fans are full you might look at higher performance fans. Also if you have your computer in that little death trap that all desk builders put in to hold your case, that will raise the case temp as well.

xoxide.com has a great selection of case fans.
March 6, 2006 2:53:15 AM

I have the same case, with stock fans, a hotter video card, an overclocked AMD dual core, with a worse CPU cooler than yours (with fan not running full speed) and I get the following temps:

Room ambient (at intake point): 26.7
Soprano (stock fans) inside via top hole: 29.4
CPU (loaded with dual folding@home 100%): 47 (max around 50)
MB: 42
Video (unloaded): 61 (mid-high 70's when loaded.)
(New Arctic Cooling Silencer sitting in box waiting to be installed.)

Power supply: Antec 500W. Temps not measured.

Regarding case airflow, you should look at the difference in temperature between you ambient room temperature in the whereabouts of your case (e.g. at the intake point), and inside the case (e.g. through the top audio/usb connector as I did). A $30-ish digital cooking thermometer can be great for this sort of stuff. If you have a big delta between ambient and internal, then this is a good indicator of inadequate air flow. If you have a high ambient temperature, then that will set a limit to what you can achieve in system + CPU temperatures. The absolute temperatures matter, but your cooling will only be able to give you at best a reduced delta over the ambient temperature.

If you have adequate case temperatures, but high CPU, then you should look more closely at the CPU cooling -- looking at improving the intake flow / temperature. Can you re-orient your case and have the side intake face a cooler point? Can you replace + upgrade the side intake fan? Can you check your CPU cooler fan speed vs. its specs?

Of course, reality is not as simple as this analysis, and a hot CPU will lead to a hot case, and though what I suggest may be a useful tool for analysis, improving the overall airflow at any point in the right direction cannot hurt, and can help.

The side intake fan usually helps CPU cooling noticably, but for analysis, you might consider the off-chance that high intake there will bypass and possibly interfere with the normal front-to-back flow required by this CPU cooler. For this, you could try switching it off, closing the vent, reversing it. But since your CPU is already hot, take care not to push it out further for long at all in such tests. For this reason, and further because 120's do air flow / noise better than 92's I'd tweak the 120's before the side intake.

As you're running the Fanmate at 100% and having a CPU temp issue, I suggest taking it out altogether -- there will be a slight power drop from the insertion of the device; might as well elimitate that. No major difference expected, but could help a bit.

You might try the following for improving general air flow:

1. Replace exhaust fan

a. Antec Tri-cool (has 3-speed switch, could try various settings, quiet when on low; at least some Antec 120's have nice airflow / noise and down-volt well; could try with Fanmate)

b. Arctic Cooling Arctic Fan 12 (open-back deep well design; has very good airflow for noise, doesn't down-volt too well, but the resultant hum could be tolerable / inaudible in practice). Fan can only be used for exhaust.

2. a. Open the door (perhaps both layers)
b. Remove some unused slot covers (could try closing door again)
c. Install a Thermaltake iCage (ditto)

3. Replace intake fan, e.g. Antec Tri-cool.

2c alone could be superior to 3, because two quiet fans are likely to give better airflow / noise than one fast fan.

I concur that Thermaltake fans seem to be optimized for noise vs. flow, and that the ones I've tested don't do badly there at the quiet end of the envelope, but that you can get a lot more flow with different fans, for more noise of course. Some better-than-average fans can give more flow with little if any more noise; the ones I suggest might be in that category.
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