Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Forum Wars 2006

Tags:
  • Overclocking
Last response: in Overclocking
Share
February 23, 2006 11:47:49 PM

Hello TG Forums...
Last years Forum Wars was fun but this year, it's gonna be a blast.
5 player teams, 5 teams max per forum....
There's gonna be some serious competition this year as I expect at least 20 or More forums to join in on the fun.... Each forum will have an A Team comprised of it's best 5 players, those 5 will play against the other forums best 5 for the title.
Teams 2-5 will play against each other in a winner takes all for the Tweaked Geek Team Title.
So thats 2 listings... The Top Dawgs and The Tweaked Geeks.... and you know there will be some very good systems on the Tweaked teams too.

Here's link to check out what's happening and what the rulz are....
Note.... there might be some minor rulz changes in the next month, but will be finalized by the end of march....

http://www.theraptorpit.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=...

We hope to see you there
Raymo/Raptor
CEO theraptorpit.com

More about : forum wars 2006

February 25, 2006 8:05:22 PM

Well... I do all the admin work on Forum Wars.
this is my second Forum wars, I run quite a few Benching contests at our forums and at PC Pitstop forums...
Last Years FW2005 was a great success but the team size was a little too large to have competitive teams, this year will be different.
I am currently lining up Sponsers for the event and talking with about 30 forums who checked us out last year but didn't enter.
We currently have 6 forums entered and will only get larger as the contest approches. We hope you join us.
It will be fun...
February 26, 2006 4:38:42 PM

what are you talking about? and say it slowly and in english
February 28, 2006 12:18:09 AM

First... let me say that I am Not trying to solicit members, this is YOUR Forum against the other Forums, I only provide a central location to place scores and for all the admins,mods and cops to meet for contest updates and stuff.

There will be 5 Teams Allowed with 5 players per Team (25 Total)
"A Team" will be the Top 5 Scoring Players.
"Teams 2-5" will be comprized of the rest of the Forums Players.

Each Forums Best 5 Players will go head to head against the other Forums Best
For the Forum Wars 2006 Top Dawg Title.
Teams 2-5 will Face off for the Tweaked Geek Crown.

Begining June 2nd.... All Players must submit a preliminary Score... I reccommend stock,
Just dont post your Best!!!

REASON... Every forum is guaranteed a score from every player entered... if a player doesnt participate after we start, their prelim score counts toward your total... So having reliable players is a must this time around.
All Participating Forums Must Provide a few Members to Police (verify and enter) the Posted Scores entered. These Forum Police (cops) Will have their Handle (Internet name) registered. They will also be global, meaning ... they can go to any forum to check any score... Cool (They do not have to play & Players can be cops also). Admins/Mods (Team Leaders) are Judges and have to make the local calls, we will have a private area called Forum Wars Admin set up soon where the cops and Admins/Mods (Team Leaders) can discuss things, tricks, how to's,Voting Polls, practice & the latest about whats going on. We will use an online database to enter the posted scores after they have been verified by a Cop or Team Leader. After that I will transfer them to my Excel spreadsheet that I make available at Our main site theraptorpit.com for download and Viewing.

"Ronnie Coleman" is our "Master of Arms" and in charge of the Forum Police Force.
He is very experienced, so if there's a problem... He's on it I assure you.
The TRP Staff is very helpful if anybody has any questions.
Once the Wars Starts... Players can Post in any participating forum.(taunting)
Once Preliminary testing begins June 2nd there will be NO UPGRADES ALLOWED
All Drivers are Allowed, Which one you use... is up to you.
Also, No Ram Drives
The Benchmarks we are going to use will be...

3DMark 01
3DMark 03
3DMark 05
3DMark 06
Crystalmark version 9

We may add One more before the Priliminary testing Starts...
All Participating Forums must be entered by the time we start Prelimanary testing
Prelimanary Testing Begins June 2nd 2006 and Ends June 23rd (3 weeks)
The War Starts July 1st 2006 and Ends August 11th.

All testing MUST be done during each testing phase... Meaning (No Old Tests)

More to come soon.... Stay tuned!
March 30, 2006 12:44:43 PM

Sounds good Raptor. 8)
March 30, 2006 1:05:43 PM

aha... I see..

I don't think my lowly 6800GS and single-core 2.5Ghz A64 will be of much use though.... *shrugs*
March 30, 2006 2:13:05 PM

Quote:

The Benchmarks we are going to use will be...

3DMark 01
3DMark 03
3DMark 05
3DMark 06
Crystalmark version 9



My rig:
'06 - http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm06=84767
'05- http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=1656988

I only run a (single) Radeon X800XL, I could run SLi x 7900 GTX if I was crazy, but don't.

You'll notice how well I score in the CPU tests, but the overall score is 90% video card 10% CPU.

If you want to benchmark CPUs use SiSoft SANDRA.
http://www.sisoftware.co.uk/

If you overclock your video card it may have throttling technology in it, much like the Pentium 4 does, so by overclocking too far it may actually reduce performance. :p 

Other differences may also be overall system configuration, usually (lack of) chipset drivers, and far less often, different video card drivers

:p  Also you forgot to mention minimum texture quality, forcing of no FSAA in driver even if app enabled, minimum mipmap quality, etc in drivers..... this is how people get +15% higher on their 3DMark scores, then overclock another +25% or so (until you get massive artifacts but the test just passes) to get near +44% higher scores. (1.15 x 1.25 = 1.4375). :p  - That is how 3DMark ORB was left in the state it is in now. No Artifact testing enforced during testing makes it useless for comparisons. Seriously.... :roll:



As 3DMark has no Artifact testing how do you stop cheats ?

Or is overclocking the card, until it just passes the test (ie: Can barely make the test out as 97% artifacts) and just managers to generate a score aswell as hacking the registry settings fed to the driver permitted ?

Saying one can get ~infinite~ in 3DMark is useless, if the system can not play games at the same settings, or is not even Prime95 stable and and 3D Artifact free for 3 days each (well this is an 'extreme test' right ?)


Can I just run a 768 Gpixel/sec system from Evans & Sutherland for 48 hours for each of the tests ? (768 Gpixel/sec is about 50 times more powerful than the most powerful stuff listed in Futuremark ORB btw :p )


The whole thing sounds potentially like a giant waste of money via a poor excuse (output some numbers on your screen) to destroy some expensive hardware just to get a (fairly meaningless as all systems configured differently, some will artifact once or more every 500 frames, others not at all) number to output on your screen.

My CPU score in '3DMark 06' (as the 2nd test benefits from 4 cores, the 1st CPU test doesn't though) and possibly result in 'Crystalmark version 9' should be quite high, but Futuremark is the poorest method to compare two systems for the above, and so many other, reasons.

Yes, even if I had 2 x GeForce 7900 GTX with 2 GHz x 256 bit GDDR3 Video RAM, or Quad-SLI (what a ****ing waste of money), or something from http://www.es.com I'd still have that opinion.

If you used more varied benchmaks, such as (image below), then maybe it would be interesting:



As 3DMark lacks interaction the cache hit rate for the CPU and GPU (memory switching predictions) is far higher than in games, even though the test uses heavier shading, textures, etc than games. The test is also not that CPU intensive and only indicates Direct 3D (totally lacks OpenGL) video subsystem performance.


However, If you can address my concerns I'll assemble an (Australian based) crew.
March 30, 2006 4:08:51 PM

But this is ment to be fun and we dont encourage cheated and , if caught it would be disasterous for an entered team...
There have been a few changes to accommedate some of the testing problems some people are having... New ATI & Nvidia cards are having touble finding Certified drivers that actually work, so The driver selection is now unlimited (Null cheat is not allowed and will be delt with if someone is caught using it, so beware if your using one of the drivers that uses it, it will be examined closely)
Also... the Top 5 Players will be using all the tests
The B Teams will not be using 3d06 because it doesn't appear to work in some of the older systems.... The Scoring Site is open.
http://www.theraptorpit.com/html/fw_2006.html
As you can see... we have a few sponsors and winners from the Top Dawgs Class as well the Tweaked Geeks Class will recieve some stuff.
Several Class winners and random drawings will take place as well.

If your forum would like to enter, you need atleast 5 Players, 1 cop and a Mod Or Admin to be the leader...
Just say so here... 10 forums are entered so far...
including Samino And Frog (3dmark world record holders) :D 

http://www.theraptorpit.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=...
March 30, 2006 5:12:34 PM

Quote:
Sorry to bother you TabrisDarkPeace (ed: You must have 4096 MB of Registered PC3200 ECC DDR-SDRAM). But It's crazy to hava 4 gig Plus too huh?
Crazy to have 1 TB in a Raid array too Huh?
Crazy to have a fast VGA card to play anything better than Video Poker too Huh?


:roll: Wow, that totally answered all of my concerns about 3DMark not testing for Artifacts. Thanks for not being a total jackass and explaining the benefits of this test in a professional manner. So you're saying people are not penalised if the whole test is an artifact fest ?, Sounds 100% professional to me... Just to get +50% higher scores in 3D Mark. You've also addressed my registry hack feeding the drivers 'ultra high performace, but one texture = one shade of colour' texture and mipmap quality settings like a true professional. :roll:

:wink: PC100 (800 MB/sec) can't do 10240 MB/sec in SANDRA using 2 x NUMA nodes can it ? - No it can't.

8) The Radeon X800 XL is ample for most games btw.
6.4 Gpixel/sec GPU + 32 GB/sec VRAM.

:? Amazing how many people think they need 10,000 3DMarks just to play Doom 3, Quake 4, Fear or Battlefield 2. Guess some people do a good job at driving the industry and encouraging ppl spend more than they feel comfortable spending. I wondered where those 'ideas' came from, but it appears we now know.

When you can top these scores, or learn what SANDRA is, let me know on this thread:

Tip: Oh, and if your low res monitor won't expand it in full screen, disable AutoResize in brower, or use FireFox to left click and get 1:1 zoom / fit to window toggle. After expanding the above image so you can clearly see the text in 1:1 sizing that is. If that is to hard, then just right click and to a Save As to get 1:1 viewing :p 

PS: This board doesn't take SDRAM (PC100), and no machine which can generate the above screenshot (taken from the time Gomer challenged me, but he's cool, with the thread in the background just to taunt him).



Start reading:
http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8we.html
http://lse.sourceforge.net/


So is your PC Vista ready ?, I know mine is:



(Trying to break the ice with this image I did in PSP 9 - 3 days ago, the original is far higher resolution in .pspimage format though 8) )

I hope you find part funny at least.... :lol:  ..... and then maybe we can get down to the question of how are they testing for Artifacts ?, as I saw no such testing software mentioned in the testing methodology.

You've only mentioned some rather 'lame' ways of 'cheating'. Does overclocking until it is barely stable (eg: It can run 3DMark say 1 in 25 times from end to end without crashing) count as cheating ?, Because if it doesn't :roll: .... and as I've got until July or so to save for parts I may be interested. (Bearing in mind Australia like like 6 weeks behind USA stock on parts availability, so how does the 'test' correct for that ?).

Are Alienware, Dell, etc and pre-fab 'Quad-SLI' systems excluded from the testing ?, or in in their own league ? (eg: The Very Bad Investments League).



:?: :?: :?: So many questions :?: :?: :?:


Such as is this a good score ?: 151,699

http://crystalmark.info/CrystalMark/09en/ranking.php?ID...
; It said something about being 2nd highest score in AU (Australia), and winning heaps of money 8) ( :wink: joking about the money though :p  )

I only need a +6.50% higher score to get 1st place in CrystalMark in AU (Australia).

So I guess my laptop is pretty quick then, eh ? ( 8O Kidding, It ain't a laptop :? ).
March 30, 2006 6:51:42 PM

I like the Vista graphic. :D  As far as the competition goes think of it this way. When you drag race cars you do everything withen the rules to go as fast as possible. These cars arent daily drivers and wouldnt make it on a cross country drive but they can run a 1/4 mile fast as all get out. The competition isnt about who has the most stable daily use computer, its about who can tweak there rig to the edge and score the best. Many of the things you are concerned about are very tough to discern and thus enforce so the fewer rules to enforce the easier it is to police.
March 30, 2006 7:01:38 PM

That is what I expected.

Which is good for me......... :lol:  :twisted:
March 30, 2006 11:40:59 PM

Well Said Tgic...
I truly ment no offence, just a little kick in the ribs about cutting loose and letting it fly. there are rulz to follow. 2 proc setups are legal but dual 2 proc set ups are not. no restrictions on video cards. No cascades or LN.
Alienware is for wussies with too much money... and for grins I'll take your SSsandra challenge. :D 
Your team could use You and your rig... we got some healthy rivalry's going on, wish you guy's could join the fun.. :D 
March 31, 2006 12:10:10 AM

I'm back... you smoked me on sssandra. Great score!!!
March 31, 2006 7:35:13 AM

Quote:
there are rulz to follow. 2 proc setups are legal but dual 2 proc set ups are not. no restrictions on video cards. No cascades or LN.
:tongue:
March 31, 2006 8:37:07 AM

Wow great idea, raptor, a competition to see who has the most money! How long did it take for you to think that one up?



(and I realise OC'ing takes skill, but there's only so far skill can take a P133 if you catch my drift)
March 31, 2006 6:17:34 PM

Quote:
I'm back... you smoked me on sssandra. Great score!!!


Hehehe, Cool, You should see my memory scores. (Over 10 GB/sec, and in SANDRA at that :D  , while using Registered [ECC] Memory which adds a transparent CAS tick [from being Reg, and it is key'd that way, so no choice on the matter :p ]).

I am running a dual proc, dual-core machine though, and once tweaked out I can get over 180,000 in CrystalMark... just how much over I am not comfortable saying 'quite' yet though. :wink:

My submitted result to CrystalMark was only just over 150,000, as I wanted some 'headroom' to spare on the score, ie: by not playing my full hand before the game had even started 8) , (eg: I am currently sitting in the #2 place, for CrystalMark for (AU) Australia 8O , so as not to attract much attention to myself 8) . However, I've got heaps of headroom :twisted: and could 'without doubt smash' 1st place in (AU) Australia for CrystalMark without really trying at all). I only need +6.5% more on score to take 1st place, and believe me when I say I can even smash past 180,000 without breaking a sweat. (As I am sure you're aware).

:oops:  I deliberately loaded a few apps to reduce my score, and made sure not to take 1st place when submitting the results. Base clocks, no tweaks, on my most unclean OS partition, etc :p 

If my config is against the rules... well, I might just run all the tests this weekend tweaked out a little, CrystalMark and SiSoft SANDRA look good, I'd need 2 x 7900 GTX (XFX #1 model) to compete in the video subsystem tests though (eg: All Futremark 3DMark tests).... Bear in mind I have no problems overclocking until the test is 85% artifacts and using every driver hack I know for texture and mipmap performance (that is legal under the rules) to just generate a few high numbers if that is what everyone else is doing. :p 

I'd prefer each machine require (multiple instances of) Prime95 for 24+ hours, and pass that without any failures, aswell as no [zero] artifacts during all the 3D tests at all (which is very hard to test). As in 'stable overclocks', vs 'if I log off I can kiss my registry good-bye overclocks'. 8)
[eg: 1+ artifact in 216,000 frames = failure, Futuremark don't enforce this, or other 'tweaks' thus the ORB DataBase is useless for 'general comparisons' these days. MadOnion was their glory days IMHO, but even then ORB 'was not for n00bs'. eg: Look at all the 'Why is my 3DMark Score so low ?' posts on every forum on the net. --- Well, that's the answer :wink: --- poor bastards. :p ]

I am down with it, even if I can't compete, but my rig 'breaks the rules' (Being a 4-way system, over 2 x CPU sockets and all) I guess I'll have to sit on the bench and watch the game.

I'll still post scores for those interested, and to help boost interest as a whole.

However, if my rig breaks the rules it'll save me money on video cards that are hard enough to get in Australia anyway. (Only one in every 14 people who can afford, and would pay for, one GeForce 7900 GTX card in Australia will actually get one because of stock levels here currently, that won't improve by July either :cry:  , I even offered AU$1200 (+33% 'tip) just for one such card, calling the extra a 'guaranteeing fee' [instead of a bribe :p ], just to get put higher (as in: move to first place) in the order queue, and I still don't have one).

Still, the CrystalMark scores possible on a Radeon X800 XL are quite good, but they'd be slightly better with a GeForce 7900 GTX. As for 3D Mark, I'd need far more than a X800 XL just to 'compete' in that area, but it does the job well enough... for now anyway).

:arrow: Another 'world wide web forum war' I'd like to see is a system builders war, where there are over 100 tests, some [highly] desirable, some mandatory, that need to be passed... all using the same configuration. With zero attempts (ie: disqualification) to 'get it right' if failing mandatory tests inbetween the desirable tests. - Now that would truely rock. Esp if done around March/April in 2007.

8) Looking at that video from last year (Forum Wars 2005):

It really should've been in 640 x 480 using Windows Media Video V9 codecs, instead of 320 x 240 using Windows Media Video V8 :p . The 1-pass constant bit rate audio, although using a V9 codec, should've been 96 Kbps (average) variable bit rate, and 2-passes. However I am happy to download 10 GB of data come time for a new video and 'assist' to create a higher quality one if need be. (My rig is good for video editing, as you've no doubt noticed). 8)

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/e...
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/e...
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/e...

I've studied AMVs for quite awhile :oops:  , understand 3:2 & 5:4 deblocking (aswell as how it would look in NTSC, PAL, aswell as TFT/CRT, HD formats, interlacing, [Inverse] Telecine, multi-pass variable bit rate with good minimum bit rate encoding, etc, so happy to offer my services & hardware as we have 'similar enough' agendas.

That and been a user of Jasc (well Corel now) Paint Shop Pro since it was made for Windows 3.x. Happy to work with 8192 x 8192 (64 MegaPixel+) multi-layer images.

If I can't 'paricipate' in the benchmarking, I'd still like to participate in ways that I can and test my skills, aswell as work with an ace team, on a more global scale. (Video + Image processing, Scene, Footage, Soundtrack, etc planning, and the like).

Heavily suspect MadModMike might even like to compete against you guys, for whatever reasons. :twisted: I can't speak for him but you may want to PM him and check with him personally that's all. :idea: It may actually be good for morale around here with people pimping rigs and all. (He might be working on a new rig and have it ready for testing, if he's interested, but have missed this thread).
April 1, 2006 12:59:34 AM

Man... That is one sweet rig, but having 2 duallies against everyone else is like letting Shamino use LN or Cascade... Hands down winner :roll:
But as you know from reading the rulz posted there will be 4 other "B teams" that will be very competitive also, they will run in there own catagorie and dont have to do 3d06. Would it be posible to remove 1 chip for the competition?
The problem with forcing everyone to run Prime 95 is verification, and alot of tests we cant verify or they can be cheated badly, like the Video tests on Crystalmark.... or Null Cheat Drivers for Nvidia.
Our cops will be on the look out for those drivers and will examine those scores very closely and maybe even vote on the validity of them.

---------------
As far as VGA cooling is concerned Air or water will be the choices, thx for bringing it to my attention. All Rigs must be in a Box, not layed out on a table.

---------------
This isn't a "who has the most money" competition.
But alot of enthuisusts like owning and playing with the best hardware available. thats why we also have the B Team competition.
There will also be quite a few giveaways, T shirts, caps and such.
I'm arranging prizes for the "Top Dawgs (A Teams)" & "The Tweaked Geeks (B Teams)" and hopefully the best in each benching Catagorie as well.

Here's a Video from My last Competition at The Raptor Pit ending about 6 weeks ago... warning 148mb (very high quality)
Right click "save as"
http://www.theraptorpit.com/trpbigvid.mpg

Here is a much smaller version (lower Quality) about 10-12mb
http://www.theraptorpit.com/trpvid.wmv
April 1, 2006 4:39:38 PM

or some sort of handicapped system, like in golf tourneys or sailing regattas.
If a CPU/Mobo/Memory combo for $500 is up against a CPU/Mobo/Memory combo system for $750, then the $500 system gets a 33% performance boost added to its score to even the playing field. This means the cheaper system would have to work harder to play, but has a chance.
of course this would have to be tweaked for individual systems, and a panel of judges would confer and issue the handicap rating.
Then the scoring could have relevance and category's could be for no handicap, and different variances of handicap. Of course, a handicap qualifying system could disregard the handicap if they chose to and thought they had a shot anyway.
April 1, 2006 4:46:54 PM

Don't you mean +50% ?

$500 to $750 = +50%

$750 to $500 = 66.667% thereof. (-33%)
April 1, 2006 5:21:12 PM

after watching the video provided by raptor1 and the posts in this topic.....
what's the intention of Forum Wars? :roll: :roll: .... one more thing.... the video is suppose to show about forum wars, right?
April 1, 2006 5:31:12 PM

That's why I offered to revamp the video in those respects.

Their intentions are noble enough.

Who knows within 5 years it could be something big.
April 1, 2006 9:24:15 PM

Ya know... I think you might be on to something.

Maybe for a future competition I could use a percentage increase for the Older systems, like say
All Pent 3's & P4's 2.4 and less and AMD Single cores below Barton on get 75% added to their score
P4 2.5 - 3.2c and AMD Athlon single cores get 50%
P4 EE -3.7 and AMD 64 chips Get 25%
Top of the line... No Discount


of coarse the numbers need changing but it would make for a fun competition for all.


Y'all Im sorry if I've givin you the wrong Idea, this competition FW06 is mostly for fun, The A Teams will be stocked with the best hardware available. Im not absolutely sure I woulld make the 5 Player cut, and my chit is pretty decent. Dollars are going to be spent on the competition, but it is not required. I wish I had some 79gtx's or a nice crossfire set up. but like most people " I dont have the green either"...
Just try to remember, "this is going to be fun"
Taunting the other forums is a trip, we get some rivalry's going.
Maybe your admin can create a passworded spot fot your team to meet and plan stratagies on which drivers to use, secret tweaks to help get every bit of juice out for the benchs without prying eyes.
There will be Many Random drawings for our sponsors shirts and caps and some software and hopefully hardware when I hear back from some of the big potentual sponsors, Mushkin,Maxtor & ATI are onboard.

I really dont want to debate weather this contest is being done to your satisfaction, I'm inviting you all to join in on the fun. Just read the links provide earlier in the thread. This contest has a solid foundation with experienced staff and a training area for your forum Police.

Join and Band up.... You wont regret it I promise.


I truly mean no disrespect in my comments
April 1, 2006 10:03:09 PM

THIS ISNT REALLY FORUM WARS

Real forum wars would be a huge forum topic/flame battle with fanboys defending Intel/Amd/Ati/Nvidia Etc. With endless rants about how this card is better than that and benchmarks to prove it and then picking apart why that benchmark is wrong and how the kittenfighter demo tech level is better and how one company tweaks its cards/chips/etc to get better results and it would go on till there was one person left alive because all the rest had died because they built up so much rage they exploded.
April 2, 2006 4:26:19 AM



Exactly.......
Are we related??? :roll:
April 2, 2006 9:33:06 PM

yes... as the rulz state... all plyers must have a score posted incase someone drops out or cant play... the Prelim score assures us and the team that a score is entered when we finish...
Please read the rulz, it's all there... pretty much. :) 

http://www.theraptorpit.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=...
!