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Offshore customer support

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May 9, 2005 12:42:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

(Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
please re-read and you will see that I am not.)



My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them was
a pleasure.



Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...



Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to the
conclusion that it was both.



When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were trying
to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems like
my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.



Example:



Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".



Long Pause.



Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"



Me: "No, Usenet… newsgroups… the news server."



Very long Pause.



Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."



Me: "Never mind."



In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making you
jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad and
impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
fault.



Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically, good
for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.


Dallas
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 12:42:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Well if you know what I think...okay even though you don't want to know what
I think :)  , I'm sure we have all had good and bad experiences, but which
outweighs which. A guy like me from Washington State living in Arizona and
being old enough to not want to admit what that is...Well heck, even if they
do know what they are doing, I can't understand a thing they are saying. Of
course that's true with much of the tech support in the U.S. Really, as a
whole I think offshore and tech support is an oxymoron...don't belong in the
same sentence.

Oh well, enough belly-aching for now.

Mr. Steve

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:kRufe.10346$BE3.4840@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
> please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
>
>
>
> My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
> graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them
> was
> a pleasure.
>
>
>
> Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
>
>
>
> Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
> trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to
> the
> conclusion that it was both.
>
>
>
> When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
> confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
> classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
> them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were
> trying
> to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
> don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems
> like
> my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
>
>
>
> Example:
>
>
>
> Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
>
>
>
> Long Pause.
>
>
>
> Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
>
>
>
> Me: "No, Usenet. newsgroups. the news server."
>
>
>
> Very long Pause.
>
>
>
> Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
>
>
>
> Me: "Never mind."
>
>
>
> In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
> don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
> mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making
> you
> jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad
> and
> impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
> fault.
>
>
>
> Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically,
> good
> for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
> backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
>
>
> Dallas
>
>
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 1:30:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Tech offshore outsourcing was obviously a top management concept, and has
effected several of the companies I have dealt with; Dell and Earthlink.
I have already dumped Dell. Earthlink doesn't matter really as I never call
them anyway. I use the XP dial up and don't even have their software
installed on my system.
The way I understand it from my own inside sources in industry is that a lot
of the companies that have gone this route are taking a long and serious
revisiting of the concept. Sales demographics will be the bottom line on
what happens in the future. The off shore tech support will either live or
die based on the customer base reaction. So far, it's a toss up for several
large companies using offshore techs. There is a definite decline showing in
the customer overall satisfaction data stats, and the future for the
decision to go this route is very much in review by top management.
Dudley
"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:kRufe.10346$BE3.4840@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
> please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
>
>
>
> My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
> graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them
> was
> a pleasure.
>
>
>
> Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
>
>
>
> Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
> trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to
> the
> conclusion that it was both.
>
>
>
> When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
> confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
> classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
> them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were
> trying
> to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
> don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems
> like
> my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
>
>
>
> Example:
>
>
>
> Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
>
>
>
> Long Pause.
>
>
>
> Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
>
>
>
> Me: "No, Usenet… newsgroups… the news server."
>
>
>
> Very long Pause.
>
>
>
> Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
>
>
>
> Me: "Never mind."
>
>
>
> In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
> don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
> mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making
> you
> jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad
> and
> impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
> fault.
>
>
>
> Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically,
> good
> for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
> backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
>
>
> Dallas
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:08:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

You are exactly right. You can explain something as simple to the
tech non- support person as , " Evertime I boot up my PC, it works OK
for 10 minutes and then locks up"..

After about a 3 minute wait, they will say, " Have you tried
rebooting the computer?"

It's absolutely unreal. I am starting to think that they just try and
piss us off, so that we will hang up and then they can go onto the
next call.

I even had one jerk , who called me on my Cellphone at dinner in a
restaurant, hours after I had talked to tech support, to remind me
that if I receive an email requesting a evaluation of the tech
support I received , that a score of 1-9 was the range and that 9
signified that I was very happy with the support.

I waited about a minute, and then said to him, " Don't you have any
score that is lower than 1" ?

He paused for about 10 seconds and said, " No I am afraid that is the
lowest". I hung up on him, then..


Bob




On Sun, 08 May 2005 20:42:56 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>(Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
>please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
>
>
>
>My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
>graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them was
>a pleasure.
>
>
>
>Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
>
>
>
>Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
>trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to the
>conclusion that it was both.
>
>
>
>When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
>confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
>classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
>them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were trying
>to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
>don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems like
>my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
>
>
>
>Example:
>
>
>
>Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
>
>
>
>Long Pause.
>
>
>
>Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
>
>
>
>Me: "No, Usenet… newsgroups… the news server."
>
>
>
>Very long Pause.
>
>
>
>Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
>
>
>
>Me: "Never mind."
>
>
>
>In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
>don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
>mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making you
>jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad and
>impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
>fault.
>
>
>
>Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically, good
>for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
>backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
>
>
>Dallas
>
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:08:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi Bob,

On Sun, 08 May 2005 22:08:10 GMT, you wrote:

> You are exactly right. You can explain something as simple to the
> tech non- support person as , " Evertime I boot up my PC, it works
> OK for 10 minutes and then locks up"..

> After about a 3 minute wait, they will say, " Have you tried
> rebooting the computer?"

To be fair, I've received just this sort of "support" from onshore,
English speaking tech support personnel as well (from my ISP and from
various software companies).

My mother has Qwest DSL service, and a few weeks ago, she was having
some problems connecting to the Internet (she's admittedly not very
computer savvy). After spending almost an hour on the phone with a
Qwest tech support person (he was in Denver, I think), they couldn't
solve the problem. She made a three-way connection call to me, with
the tech support person still on the line. In just a few seconds, I
figured out what the problem was (a reset password), and she was back
online. Listening to my mother's description of the issue, it was
easy enough for anyone to understand (or so I thought). All the tech
support person said was "Oh right! I was thinking about more
complicated scenarios!" He had her re-staring the computer several
times, changing network settings, diagnosing the modem, etc., but
never thought to ask about the password situation! Sort of like
looking at a "dead" car, and not bothering to check the fuel gauge
first! :-)

- --
Melissa

PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/

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Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:15:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I think that the overseas support entirely depends on whether it is
technical or not. Tech support is very poor and by definition difficult to
communicate. Mind you, tech support is often poor in the shop where you
bought equipment in your own town. However, I have found that , for example
in dealing with admin. such as payment or switching services, the support
from New Delhi for British Telecom has been fine. I have even had two
reductions in my monthly payments just by asking nicely!



Cheers,

Quilly











An individual reply goes into my spam filter
May 9, 2005 2:34:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:
> (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
> please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
>
>
>
> My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
> graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them was
> a pleasure.
>
>
>
> Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
>
>
>
> Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
> trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to the
> conclusion that it was both.
>
>
>
> When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
> confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
> classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
> them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were trying
> to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
> don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems like
> my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
>
>
>
> Example:
>
>
>
> Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
>
>
>
> Long Pause.
>
>
>
> Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
>
>
>
> Me: "No, Usenet… newsgroups… the news server."
>
>
>
> Very long Pause.
>
>
>
> Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
>
>
>
> Me: "Never mind."
>
>
>
> In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
> don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
> mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making you
> jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad and
> impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
> fault.
>
>
>
> Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically, good
> for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
> backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
>
>
> Dallas
>
>
Well I for one had a very good experience with Microsoft and a chap
from India. My computer was locked up and it was telling me to inset disc .
After the usual run-around connecting to their help, this chap stayed
on line with me through 3 reformats to make sure it was working right.
All the time chatting and giving me some valuable information about
setting up and running my computer. bob
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 2:34:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi Bob,

On Sun, 08 May 2005 22:34:09 GMT, you wrote:

> Well I for one had a very good experience with Microsoft and a chap
> from India.

I'll chime in here with my own good experience with an Indian tech
support person...

Shortly after hooking up a new NAT router, I was having some
connection problems. The tech support person was a woman in India.
She quickly and accurately diagnosed the problem, talked me through
the process of setting the IP addresses correctly, and the problem
was solved!

There may be several valid issues to discuss concerning the
outsourcing of various jobs, but much can depend on the individuals
involved as well. I've had both good and bad experiences with both
onshore and offshore support personnel, so I tend to judge each
situation on its own merits.

- --
Melissa

PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/

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May 9, 2005 4:34:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I for one can sympathize with both side of the issue. I purchased a
Dell back in '96........a PII 450. It had an initial problem with a CD
drive. I made one call to tech support describing the problem. The
next morning, a technician showed up at my doorstep with a new drive,
installed it, and left. That was it. Unbelievable service.

After numerous upgrades, the system finally outlived its usefulness. I
was going to purchase a new machine from Dell last year, but was
hearing numerous complaints, mainly about quality components, and a
terrible tech service. Things must have really gone down hill!

I chose instead to build my own system, purchasing almost all the
components through NewEgg. It worked out very well. Got a very good
machine, at a much cheaper cost than going the OEM route.

After retiring from the Air Force, I began working for a Washington
State based manufacturing company primarily building keyboards, as well
as other computer input devices. I worked in quality control, and
performed failure analysis/repair on returned product. At times, I was
asked to help out, manning the customer support lines. Believe me,
that was quite an experience. Some of the calls were unbelievable!.
Amazing how many people have trouble plugging in a power cord!

We had a small customer service area, and anyone taking calls were all
experienced technicians. We did not have to follow someone's idea of a
Q and A checklist. Everything was handled as a unique situation. If
we couldn't put our heads together and come up with the right answer,
we transferred the call directly to an engineer. In other cases, we
would call the customer back after doing more research.

Nothing is more disgusting than spending money on any product, and
finding yourself "out in the cold" after the deal is done! Hard to
imagine any corporation placing such a low priority on customer
service..............

Propwash
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 5:46:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Lawn Dart wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> On Sun, 08 May 2005 22:08:10 GMT, you wrote:
>
>
>>You are exactly right. You can explain something as simple to the
>>tech non- support person as , " Evertime I boot up my PC, it works
>>OK for 10 minutes and then locks up"..
>
>
>
>>After about a 3 minute wait, they will say, " Have you tried
>>rebooting the computer?"
>
>
> To be fair, I've received just this sort of "support" from onshore,
> English speaking tech support personnel as well (from my ISP and from
> various software companies).
>
> My mother has Qwest DSL service, and a few weeks ago, she was having
> some problems connecting to the Internet (she's admittedly not very
> computer savvy). After spending almost an hour on the phone with a
> Qwest tech support person (he was in Denver, I think), they couldn't
> solve the problem. She made a three-way connection call to me, with
> tech support person still on the line. In just a few seconds, I
> figured out what the problem was (a reset password), and she was back
> online. Listening to my mother's description of the issue, it was
> easy enough for anyone to understand (or so I thought). All the tech
> support person said was "Oh right! I was thinking about more
> complicated scenarios!" He had her re-staring the computer several
> times, changing network settings, diagnosing the modem, etc., but
> he never thought to ask about the password situation! Sort of like
> looking at a "dead" car, and not bothering to check the fuel gauge
> first! :-)
>
> - --
> Melissa
>
> PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> iQCVAwUBQn6SoTEYqNTZBqoEAQNgwgP9HMZw04ZrQap0I4A2fQgMfmRVvUyUQmKL
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> yBhHz6eiwpgG58ewCC1G71qkwXa0nARyuwRPawxHTno1ddGiJ3gZY9ty+GCF4l8S
> tqd+amnKgOk=
> =TRwF
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
That's the trick for the tech. He-she must know how to ask the right
questions.

The car reminds me of my neighbor. He bought a car from an upstate
dealer, got a real good deal. We were sitting having coffee one morning
and an eighteen wheeler drove down the street. The driver opened up the
trailer put out the ramps and drove a car out.

About a month after the delivery the car wouldn't start. He called the
same dealer. Next day same eighteen wheeler was back for car. Day the
day after that the service manager called. Mr. ... we just checked
your car, it was out of gas.

Mike
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 3:14:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:

> When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to
not
> confuse them.

Isn't this version of English known as the "Queen's English?" I
never heard of the King's English... :) 

--
Peter
May 9, 2005 5:21:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

The only thing as intimidating as calling tech support for a broken computer
is taking your car into a dealership for repairs.

Arthur

"Mr. Steve" <surveyorsteve@cox.net> wrote in message
news:p SAfe.14556$tQ.12042@fed1read06...
> Well if you know what I think...okay even though you don't want to know
> what I think :)  , I'm sure we have all had good and bad experiences, but
> which outweighs which. A guy like me from Washington State living in
> Arizona and being old enough to not want to admit what that is...Well
> heck, even if they do know what they are doing, I can't understand a thing
> they are saying. Of course that's true with much of the tech support in
> the U.S. Really, as a whole I think offshore and tech support is an
> oxymoron...don't belong in the same sentence.
>
> Oh well, enough belly-aching for now.
>
> Mr. Steve
>
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
> news:kRufe.10346$BE3.4840@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
>> please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
>>
>>
>>
>> My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
>> graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them
>> was
>> a pleasure.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
>> trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to
>> the
>> conclusion that it was both.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
>> confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
>> classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
>> them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were
>> trying
>> to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
>> don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems
>> like
>> my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
>>
>>
>>
>> Example:
>>
>>
>>
>> Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
>>
>>
>>
>> Long Pause.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
>>
>>
>>
>> Me: "No, Usenet. newsgroups. the news server."
>>
>>
>>
>> Very long Pause.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
>>
>>
>>
>> Me: "Never mind."
>>
>>
>>
>> In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
>> don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
>> mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making
>> you
>> jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad
>> and
>> impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
>> fault.
>>
>>
>>
>> Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically,
>> good
>> for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope
>> a
>> backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
>>
>>
>> Dallas
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 6:08:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

In assessing a quality question like tech support, or a specific company's
hardware, it's fairly difficult to reach a definite conclusion when using a
data base as large as a newsgroup. I think you can come away with a general
idea of the situation however.
I think for Dell, my final judgment on their failing grade came upon
reaching a point over time, as my own experience using a personal computer
rose and I was exposed to the Dell tech system as that learning curve was
occurring in real time.
The language problem was really very bad, but only one factor for me. What
really turned me off to Dell, was what first was a sense, then later on, as
my own knowledge and experience working with the computer rose, the reality
that the Dell techs from the instant they picked up the phone, were not
working the problem from what I was telling them. They were working a canned
solutions method based on key macros. In other words, as they listened to
the first sentence I spoke, they seemed to be looking at specific
phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen macro
solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
Aside from an occasional tech at Dell who I felt was actually engaging me
based on what I was telling him/her, my overall impression was always the
same. They were NOT dealing with my specific issue at all, and were NOT
really interested in the data I was giving them, but were dealing with me as
something to be rid of ASAP by using what their "book" told them would be a
macro solution covering all bases. This was almost invariably a system
restore!
It's amazing how high level management decisions are made in industry today.
Sometimes very large decisions are made for simple reasons that get buried
in a non existent complicated answer no one ever finds.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least to discover someday that the release of
XP with it's ability for system restore, was in large part, a huge factor in
the decision to go overseas with tech support. When the large percentage of
the answer for a called in issue is to simply do a system restore, there
isn't really all that much need for communicative skills :-)
I guess it's like anything else really. The best way to have good tech
support is to become a good tech and do it yourself. This is what I have
done as well as most everyone I know. The people I REALLY feel sorry for are
the millions of plain simple folks out there who are not gamers, not
engineers, but just plain folks, who buy into these large "support" systems,
then have to try and work in that system as it exists today.
We have several family members who own Dells. When they have a problem, they
usually end up calling me rather than deal with Dell on the phone :-)
It's a shame, and I hope Dell gets wise to a better way of doing things
before they end up destroying what they have created over the years. Outfits
like "geeks on call" are popping up all over the place to fill the gap left
by dissatisfied customers from large companies like Dell. If local tech
support turns out to be good, and the cost is reasonable, I can see an awful
lot of Dell customers opting for different computer solutions.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)



"Propwash" <propwash@statnetworks.net> wrote in message
news:1115624048.148993.117930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>I for one can sympathize with both side of the issue. I purchased a
> Dell back in '96........a PII 450. It had an initial problem with a CD
> drive. I made one call to tech support describing the problem. The
> next morning, a technician showed up at my doorstep with a new drive,
> installed it, and left. That was it. Unbelievable service.
>
> After numerous upgrades, the system finally outlived its usefulness. I
> was going to purchase a new machine from Dell last year, but was
> hearing numerous complaints, mainly about quality components, and a
> terrible tech service. Things must have really gone down hill!
>
> I chose instead to build my own system, purchasing almost all the
> components through NewEgg. It worked out very well. Got a very good
> machine, at a much cheaper cost than going the OEM route.
>
> After retiring from the Air Force, I began working for a Washington
> State based manufacturing company primarily building keyboards, as well
> as other computer input devices. I worked in quality control, and
> performed failure analysis/repair on returned product. At times, I was
> asked to help out, manning the customer support lines. Believe me,
> that was quite an experience. Some of the calls were unbelievable!.
> Amazing how many people have trouble plugging in a power cord!
>
> We had a small customer service area, and anyone taking calls were all
> experienced technicians. We did not have to follow someone's idea of a
> Q and A checklist. Everything was handled as a unique situation. If
> we couldn't put our heads together and come up with the right answer,
> we transferred the call directly to an engineer. In other cases, we
> would call the customer back after doing more research.
>
> Nothing is more disgusting than spending money on any product, and
> finding yourself "out in the cold" after the deal is done! Hard to
> imagine any corporation placing such a low priority on customer
> service..............
>
> Propwash
>
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 10:19:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 08 May 2005 20:42:56 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>(Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
>please re-read and you will see that I am not.)

Hi Dalli

Not a racial slur, IMO. Sometimes the truth will mildly hurt others.
Call a spade a spade and not a bloody shovel - ie, tell it how it is.

My own little part of the world has many distinct accents and
dialects, several with are not exactly easy to comprehend to my ear.
My ear is Scouse, NE Lancs, Surrey, Sussex and public school, FWIW :-)

If Dell, in this case, wishes to save money by using foreign (from my
and your point of view) call centre operaters, they should be prepared
to accept that not all of their customers are able to comprehend those
others' accents.

Thinking about it, we are reasonably lucky in that English is our
native tongue. Imagine what it must be like for, for example, a German
speaker trying to understand English when spoken in an accent they
have never heard previously.

Standing by to receive the +/- comments ...

Regards
James
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 10:28:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 8 May 2005 15:29:03 -0700, Lawn Dart
<willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote:

>To be fair, I've received just this sort of "support" from onshore,
>English speaking tech support personnel as well (from my ISP and from
>various software companies).

Very true :-)

Competence - or lack of the same - is really the issue.

James
May 9, 2005 10:51:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dudley Henriques"
> phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen macro
> solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.

Wow... nice article. And you're right, I recall them tapping on their
computer keys to search their knowledge base for a canned solution.


Scroll down to Open letter to Michael Dell:
http://news.com.com/2010-1042-5130816.html?tag=nefd_acp...

Dallas
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 12:01:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I never contacted Dell, or even brought the matter of my leaving their
customer base to their attention. For all I know, I'm still listed as a
customer.
Usually I would do this with a company I was leaving, but in this case, the
service was so bad and the scenario so constant that there could have been
no way top management wouldn't have known about it. I've never been a fan of
the "letter" anyway. These are usually noted and classified, but no real
change takes place until the sales figures actually change on the charts.

You reach a point where you're not interested in helping a company with your
input. You just want to get as far away from the aggravation as possible,
which is exactly what happened in my case. I left Dell,and will never return
to them. I would rate however, the time I was with Dell well spent, as if
nothing else, their bad service forced me to learn what I had to learn to
fix my own issues. The result was an education I might never have obtained
had I received the service Dell still hypes in it's sales program.
DH

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:D jOfe.11108$HL2.7551@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Dudley Henriques"
>> phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen macro
>> solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
>
> Wow... nice article. And you're right, I recall them tapping on their
> computer keys to search their knowledge base for a canned solution.
>
>
> Scroll down to Open letter to Michael Dell:
> http://news.com.com/2010-1042-5130816.html?tag=nefd_acp...
>
> Dallas
>
>
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 12:17:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dudley, you hit the nail on the head! I have become quite proficient at
restoring other's computers that have become bogged down with spyware,
adware, malware, and the odd virus and trojan. I only work with people I
know and don't charge anything. Although a paid lunch now and then will be
accepted. Thankfully, my newest Dell has never given me a problem and if it
does, I'll never call Dell support...as it doesn't exist.
Tom
"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
news:b9Kfe.16$wM2.5@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> In assessing a quality question like tech support, or a specific company's
> hardware, it's fairly difficult to reach a definite conclusion when using
> a data base as large as a newsgroup. I think you can come away with a
> general idea of the situation however.
> I think for Dell, my final judgment on their failing grade came upon
> reaching a point over time, as my own experience using a personal computer
> rose and I was exposed to the Dell tech system as that learning curve was
> occurring in real time.
> The language problem was really very bad, but only one factor for me. What
> really turned me off to Dell, was what first was a sense, then later on,
> as my own knowledge and experience working with the computer rose, the
> reality that the Dell techs from the instant they picked up the phone,
> were not working the problem from what I was telling them. They were
> working a canned solutions method based on key macros. In other words, as
> they listened to the first sentence I spoke, they seemed to be looking at
> specific
> phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen macro
> solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
> Aside from an occasional tech at Dell who I felt was actually engaging me
> based on what I was telling him/her, my overall impression was always the
> same. They were NOT dealing with my specific issue at all, and were NOT
> really interested in the data I was giving them, but were dealing with me
> as something to be rid of ASAP by using what their "book" told them would
> be a macro solution covering all bases. This was almost invariably a
> system restore!
> It's amazing how high level management decisions are made in industry
> today. Sometimes very large decisions are made for simple reasons that get
> buried in a non existent complicated answer no one ever finds.
> It wouldn't surprise me in the least to discover someday that the release
> of XP with it's ability for system restore, was in large part, a huge
> factor in the decision to go overseas with tech support. When the large
> percentage of the answer for a called in issue is to simply do a system
> restore, there isn't really all that much need for communicative skills
> :-)
> I guess it's like anything else really. The best way to have good tech
> support is to become a good tech and do it yourself. This is what I have
> done as well as most everyone I know. The people I REALLY feel sorry for
> are the millions of plain simple folks out there who are not gamers, not
> engineers, but just plain folks, who buy into these large "support"
> systems, then have to try and work in that system as it exists today.
> We have several family members who own Dells. When they have a problem,
> they usually end up calling me rather than deal with Dell on the phone :-)
> It's a shame, and I hope Dell gets wise to a better way of doing things
> before they end up destroying what they have created over the years.
> Outfits like "geeks on call" are popping up all over the place to fill the
> gap left by dissatisfied customers from large companies like Dell. If
> local tech support turns out to be good, and the cost is reasonable, I can
> see an awful lot of Dell customers opting for different computer
> solutions.
> Dudley Henriques
> International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
> Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
> dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
> (take out the trash :-)
>
>
>
> "Propwash" <propwash@statnetworks.net> wrote in message
> news:1115624048.148993.117930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>I for one can sympathize with both side of the issue. I purchased a
>> Dell back in '96........a PII 450. It had an initial problem with a CD
>> drive. I made one call to tech support describing the problem. The
>> next morning, a technician showed up at my doorstep with a new drive,
>> installed it, and left. That was it. Unbelievable service.
>>
>> After numerous upgrades, the system finally outlived its usefulness. I
>> was going to purchase a new machine from Dell last year, but was
>> hearing numerous complaints, mainly about quality components, and a
>> terrible tech service. Things must have really gone down hill!
>>
>> I chose instead to build my own system, purchasing almost all the
>> components through NewEgg. It worked out very well. Got a very good
>> machine, at a much cheaper cost than going the OEM route.
>>
>> After retiring from the Air Force, I began working for a Washington
>> State based manufacturing company primarily building keyboards, as well
>> as other computer input devices. I worked in quality control, and
>> performed failure analysis/repair on returned product. At times, I was
>> asked to help out, manning the customer support lines. Believe me,
>> that was quite an experience. Some of the calls were unbelievable!.
>> Amazing how many people have trouble plugging in a power cord!
>>
>> We had a small customer service area, and anyone taking calls were all
>> experienced technicians. We did not have to follow someone's idea of a
>> Q and A checklist. Everything was handled as a unique situation. If
>> we couldn't put our heads together and come up with the right answer,
>> we transferred the call directly to an engineer. In other cases, we
>> would call the customer back after doing more research.
>>
>> Nothing is more disgusting than spending money on any product, and
>> finding yourself "out in the cold" after the deal is done! Hard to
>> imagine any corporation placing such a low priority on customer
>> service..............
>>
>> Propwash
>>
>
>
May 10, 2005 1:46:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> I never contacted Dell, or even brought the matter of my leaving their
> customer base to their attention. For all I know, I'm still listed as
> a customer.
> Usually I would do this with a company I was leaving, but in this
> case, the service was so bad and the scenario so constant that there
> could have been no way top management wouldn't have known about it.
> I've never been a fan of the "letter" anyway. These are usually noted
> and classified, but no real change takes place until the sales
> figures actually change on the charts.
>
> You reach a point where you're not interested in helping a company
> with your input. You just want to get as far away from the
> aggravation as possible, which is exactly what happened in my case. I
> left Dell,and will never return to them. I would rate however, the
> time I was with Dell well spent, as if nothing else, their bad
> service forced me to learn what I had to learn to fix my own issues.
> The result was an education I might never have obtained had I
> received the service Dell still hypes in it's sales program.
> DH
>
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
> news:D jOfe.11108$HL2.7551@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "Dudley Henriques"
>>> phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen
>>> macro solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
>>
>> Wow... nice article. And you're right, I recall them tapping on
>> their computer keys to search their knowledge base for a canned
>> solution.
>>
>>
>> Scroll down to Open letter to Michael Dell:
>> http://news.com.com/2010-1042-5130816.html?tag=nefd_acp...
>>
>> Dallas

I bought a Mesh computer in April 2004 and my experience may be of interest
to those in the U.K. It worked 'straight out of the boxes' and I only (so
far) had to ring for advice once. The call was noted and an engineer rang
back in about 20 minutes and talked me through the problem, a slight
adjustment. Since then I have had a couple of somewhat OT queries. I have
sent these by e-mail and they have been responded to in a short time. I
would be happy both to recommend their products and to buy from them again.
I have nothing to do with the company other than as a customer.

Ches
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 1:51:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Ches;
Good to see you here.
Dudley

"Ches" <ches@lineone.net> wrote in message
news:QSQfe.28799$G8.1744@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> I never contacted Dell, or even brought the matter of my leaving their
>> customer base to their attention. For all I know, I'm still listed as
>> a customer.
>> Usually I would do this with a company I was leaving, but in this
>> case, the service was so bad and the scenario so constant that there
>> could have been no way top management wouldn't have known about it.
>> I've never been a fan of the "letter" anyway. These are usually noted
>> and classified, but no real change takes place until the sales
>> figures actually change on the charts.
>>
>> You reach a point where you're not interested in helping a company
>> with your input. You just want to get as far away from the
>> aggravation as possible, which is exactly what happened in my case. I
>> left Dell,and will never return to them. I would rate however, the
>> time I was with Dell well spent, as if nothing else, their bad
>> service forced me to learn what I had to learn to fix my own issues.
>> The result was an education I might never have obtained had I
>> received the service Dell still hypes in it's sales program.
>> DH
>>
>> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
>> news:D jOfe.11108$HL2.7551@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>> "Dudley Henriques"
>>>> phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen
>>>> macro solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
>>>
>>> Wow... nice article. And you're right, I recall them tapping on
>>> their computer keys to search their knowledge base for a canned
>>> solution.
>>>
>>>
>>> Scroll down to Open letter to Michael Dell:
>>> http://news.com.com/2010-1042-5130816.html?tag=nefd_acp...
>>>
>>> Dallas
>
> I bought a Mesh computer in April 2004 and my experience may be of
> interest
> to those in the U.K. It worked 'straight out of the boxes' and I only (so
> far) had to ring for advice once. The call was noted and an engineer rang
> back in about 20 minutes and talked me through the problem, a slight
> adjustment. Since then I have had a couple of somewhat OT queries. I have
> sent these by e-mail and they have been responded to in a short time. I
> would be happy both to recommend their products and to buy from them
> again.
> I have nothing to do with the company other than as a customer.
>
> Ches
>
>
>
May 10, 2005 4:02:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Ches"
> The call was noted and an engineer rang
> back in about 20 minutes

Good support:

Creative Labs... (Sound Blaster) - great support at least in 2003

Matrox - Best ever! Intelligent people taking a personal interest in your
problem. I was trying to put my Matrox G400 graphics card into this
computer after I built it and it just didn't like it.

This computer had a chipset that they didn't have in their support
department so they were going out to buy a motherboard with this new chipset
to duplicate the problem. I solved the problem by myself, but I thought
that was pretty amazing support.


Dallas
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:04:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Tom;

I can't for the life of me figure out how some of these poor everyday people
manage to solve the issues that pop up with computers they buy.
I honestly don't know what to recommend to people anymore who ask me where
to go to buy.
Admittedly, ANY kind of phone tech support isn't the easiest thing in the
world to accomplish. I'm sure you've had as much trouble trying to diagnose
something for someone that I have had. But what these large companies hype
to the buying public is a crime. They make people feel that competent and
helpful tech support is available 24/7 as a sales tool and people buy these
system thinking that all they need to do is pick up the phone and someone on
the other end who understands what the problem is will solve it for them.
I have to laugh looking back on my very first Dell tech call. I wasn't even
up and running past the first boot on my brand new first Dell system (6
years ago) when I got the old blue screen of death :-) At the time I had 0
computer skills. I called Dell. It was 11:30 at night. I went through the
phone automatic response system and was put on hold with music. Well, it was
late, and I didn't have to do anything the next morning so I held. I watched
TV with a headset phone on while this was happening. Every 10 minutes or so,
I got an intercept telling me how valuable my call was to Dell and that a
tech would be forthcoming. Little did I know that this forthcoming would be
about the time of the second coming.
Anyway, about 3AM, the first movie was over and I was still on hold looking
at my BSD. I figured what the hell, I had spent this much time waiting, I
might as well wait it out.
Well, I sort of dozed off a bit with the music in my ears and at 6:30AM, I
got an automatic voice telling me that a tech would be with me momentarily.
Five minutes later the tech picked up, and immediately the line went
flatline......stone cold dial
tone------------------------------------------------------------------
He had cut the connection!!!
I just sat there and laughed like an idiot until I realized that there just
might be an offside chance that I actually WAS an idiot!!!
Oh well.....you live and learn :-)
Dudley


"Tom Garrett" <garrett451@diespammerscox.net> wrote in message
news:XIVfe.39719$_K.23510@fed1read03...
> Dudley, you hit the nail on the head! I have become quite proficient at
> restoring other's computers that have become bogged down with spyware,
> adware, malware, and the odd virus and trojan. I only work with people I
> know and don't charge anything. Although a paid lunch now and then will be
> accepted. Thankfully, my newest Dell has never given me a problem and if
> it does, I'll never call Dell support...as it doesn't exist.
> Tom
> "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
> news:b9Kfe.16$wM2.5@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>> In assessing a quality question like tech support, or a specific
>> company's hardware, it's fairly difficult to reach a definite conclusion
>> when using a data base as large as a newsgroup. I think you can come away
>> with a general idea of the situation however.
>> I think for Dell, my final judgment on their failing grade came upon
>> reaching a point over time, as my own experience using a personal
>> computer rose and I was exposed to the Dell tech system as that learning
>> curve was occurring in real time.
>> The language problem was really very bad, but only one factor for me.
>> What really turned me off to Dell, was what first was a sense, then later
>> on, as my own knowledge and experience working with the computer rose,
>> the reality that the Dell techs from the instant they picked up the
>> phone, were not working the problem from what I was telling them. They
>> were working a canned solutions method based on key macros. In other
>> words, as they listened to the first sentence I spoke, they seemed to be
>> looking at specific
>> phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen macro
>> solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
>> Aside from an occasional tech at Dell who I felt was actually engaging me
>> based on what I was telling him/her, my overall impression was always the
>> same. They were NOT dealing with my specific issue at all, and were NOT
>> really interested in the data I was giving them, but were dealing with me
>> as something to be rid of ASAP by using what their "book" told them would
>> be a macro solution covering all bases. This was almost invariably a
>> system restore!
>> It's amazing how high level management decisions are made in industry
>> today. Sometimes very large decisions are made for simple reasons that
>> get buried in a non existent complicated answer no one ever finds.
>> It wouldn't surprise me in the least to discover someday that the release
>> of XP with it's ability for system restore, was in large part, a huge
>> factor in the decision to go overseas with tech support. When the large
>> percentage of the answer for a called in issue is to simply do a system
>> restore, there isn't really all that much need for communicative skills
>> :-)
>> I guess it's like anything else really. The best way to have good tech
>> support is to become a good tech and do it yourself. This is what I have
>> done as well as most everyone I know. The people I REALLY feel sorry for
>> are the millions of plain simple folks out there who are not gamers, not
>> engineers, but just plain folks, who buy into these large "support"
>> systems, then have to try and work in that system as it exists today.
>> We have several family members who own Dells. When they have a problem,
>> they usually end up calling me rather than deal with Dell on the phone
>> :-)
>> It's a shame, and I hope Dell gets wise to a better way of doing things
>> before they end up destroying what they have created over the years.
>> Outfits like "geeks on call" are popping up all over the place to fill
>> the gap left by dissatisfied customers from large companies like Dell. If
>> local tech support turns out to be good, and the cost is reasonable, I
>> can see an awful lot of Dell customers opting for different computer
>> solutions.
>> Dudley Henriques
>> International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
>> Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
>> dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
>> (take out the trash :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> "Propwash" <propwash@statnetworks.net> wrote in message
>> news:1115624048.148993.117930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>I for one can sympathize with both side of the issue. I purchased a
>>> Dell back in '96........a PII 450. It had an initial problem with a CD
>>> drive. I made one call to tech support describing the problem. The
>>> next morning, a technician showed up at my doorstep with a new drive,
>>> installed it, and left. That was it. Unbelievable service.
>>>
>>> After numerous upgrades, the system finally outlived its usefulness. I
>>> was going to purchase a new machine from Dell last year, but was
>>> hearing numerous complaints, mainly about quality components, and a
>>> terrible tech service. Things must have really gone down hill!
>>>
>>> I chose instead to build my own system, purchasing almost all the
>>> components through NewEgg. It worked out very well. Got a very good
>>> machine, at a much cheaper cost than going the OEM route.
>>>
>>> After retiring from the Air Force, I began working for a Washington
>>> State based manufacturing company primarily building keyboards, as well
>>> as other computer input devices. I worked in quality control, and
>>> performed failure analysis/repair on returned product. At times, I was
>>> asked to help out, manning the customer support lines. Believe me,
>>> that was quite an experience. Some of the calls were unbelievable!.
>>> Amazing how many people have trouble plugging in a power cord!
>>>
>>> We had a small customer service area, and anyone taking calls were all
>>> experienced technicians. We did not have to follow someone's idea of a
>>> Q and A checklist. Everything was handled as a unique situation. If
>>> we couldn't put our heads together and come up with the right answer,
>>> we transferred the call directly to an engineer. In other cases, we
>>> would call the customer back after doing more research.
>>>
>>> Nothing is more disgusting than spending money on any product, and
>>> finding yourself "out in the cold" after the deal is done! Hard to
>>> imagine any corporation placing such a low priority on customer
>>> service..............
>>>
>>> Propwash
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
May 10, 2005 8:29:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Bob Cordone"
> It's absolutely unreal. I am starting to think that they just try and
> piss us off, so that we will hang up and then they can go onto the
> next call.

Here's a place to go to entertain yourself for the next 30 minutes:

http://www.gripe2ed.com/scoop/story/2003/6/12/10720/019...

One common complaint I read is that "THEY HANG UP ON YOU...." I couldn't
believe it but it's common, when one of these guys from Bangalore or
Hyderabad does not like the direction the conversation is going they hang up
in your ear. :-)


Dallas
May 10, 2005 8:43:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dudley Henriques"
> They make people feel that competent and
> helpful tech support is available 24/7

Have you seen their current ad on TV?

scene: Dark bedroom, middle aged man is lying in bed with his wife asleep
beside him.

Middle aged man: "I just wanted to see if you were really there?"

Midwestern American voice of Dell technician on the phone: "Yes sir,
24-7-365."

Middle aged man: "What about leap year?"

Midwestern American voice of Dell technician on the phone: "366."

....Too funny.

They should do a real life commercial starring Dudley in his headset. :-)

Dallas
May 10, 2005 12:16:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:
>
> They should do a real life commercial starring Dudley in his headset.


Yeah, and Gateway could sponser it for Dell.. hehehe I suppose they're
about as bad, but I haven't heard about it like Dell! I got my Dell XPS and
haven't had a bit of trouble (except an attempted Office 97 install - not XP
compatible - screwed things up so bad I had to do a reformat/reinstall to
finally get things right again about the second week I had it) so haven't
had the need to call them. I'd been rolling my own for the past decade+,
but Dell was offering basically what I would have built for less $$$, so I
figured what the hell, why go to the trouble... It's worked out, but next
time around I'll be back to doing it myself.........
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 1:09:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> Matrox - Best ever! Intelligent people taking a personal interest
> in your problem. I was trying to put my Matrox G400 graphics card
> into this computer after I built it and it just didn't like it.
>
> This computer had a chipset that they didn't have in their support
> department so they were going out to buy a motherboard with this new
> chipset to duplicate the problem. I solved the problem by myself,
> but I thought that was pretty amazing support.
>
>
> Dallas

Matrox are fantastic! When I first tried to install my Parhelia (in the UK)
I could only get two monitors to work. They invited me to bring my pc up to
their main office in Berkshire so that they could look at it. It worked fine
with all three monitors, and I came home. I still could not get my third
monitor to work so they sent me a spare monitor from their own office to
try! Delivered by courier the following day. It worked OK and they said I
could keep the monitor 17 inch !!
Their help forum in Canada is the best I have ever used anywhere.


--
Cheers,

Quilly











An individual reply goes into my spam filter
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:02:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 09 May 2005 21:46:24 GMT, "Ches" <ches@lineone.net> wrote:

>I bought a Mesh computer in April 2004 and my experience may be of interest
>to those in the U.K. It worked 'straight out of the boxes' and I only (so
>far) had to ring for advice once. The call was noted and an engineer rang
>back in about 20 minutes and talked me through the problem, a slight
>adjustment. Since then I have had a couple of somewhat OT queries. I have
>sent these by e-mail and they have been responded to in a short time. I
>would be happy both to recommend their products and to buy from them again.
>I have nothing to do with the company other than as a customer.

Hi Ches

Mesh here too. Like yourself, my PC worked out of the box (literally,
not management speak).

My one complaint was that a speaker cable - the phono-plug device
connecting the sound card to the sub-woofer - was missing and, IMO,
that was Creative's fault and not Mesh's. Nevertheless, Mesh sent me a
new cable which arrived within two days.

One time, about 18 months ago, my house was zapped by lightning and my
PC decied not to function. Mesh's customer support told me simply to
remove the fax modem card ... et voila, a working PC. As my net
connection is via an ethernet card to my TV's set top box the lack of
a fax modem hardly hurt. Also, I had never used this device anyway.

As I and others have implied in other posts, this sort of service
would steer me towards Mesh come the day when I have the dosh to buy a
new PC - all other things being equal, of course.

Conversely, I have read in some NGs of horror stories regarding Mesh's
products.

Like you, Ches, I am merely a satisfied customer.
James
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:04:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
news:4v2ge.1446$DC2.503@okepread01...
> I got my Dell XPS and haven't had a bit of trouble (except an attempted
> Office 97 install - not XP compatible - screwed things up so bad I had to
> do a reformat/reinstall to finally get things right again about the second
> week I had it) so haven't had the need to call them.

Hi Crash

We still use Office 97 at the office (our company database would need some
development on it to bring it up to 2000) and I've never had trouble putting
it on out XP (Professional) machines. Now you've got me worried!

Chris
May 10, 2005 8:04:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Chris Curtis wrote:
> Hi Crash
>
> We still use Office 97 at the office (our company database would need
> some development on it to bring it up to 2000) and I've never had
> trouble putting it on out XP (Professional) machines. Now you've got
> me worried!


Office 97 is a strange one. I got the wife a budget $399 Gateway a few
years back, XP home, and before I'd heard about the compatibility thing, I
loaded 97 on it no problem! A few months later I got my XPS, with XP home,
and the only thing I actually wanted from Office 97, was Word to have spell
checker with Outlook Express. I ended up with all kinds of things botched
up, including Outlook Express, and right now I can't even remember all the
little things. I went to M/S site where they had a repair list of things to
edit in the registry about a yard long to uninstall Office 97, so I wasn't a
random case, plus a friend down in Texas (no, not Varmit) who's a runs the
networking at a hospital told me they were warned against using it on XP...
The M/S cleanup list did NOT cure all the problems, so I figured it was a
good time to get rid of all Dell's bloatware and get things the way I wanted
it............
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:20:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 04:04:38 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
<dhenriques@noware .net> wrote:

>I can't for the life of me figure out how some of these poor everyday people
>manage to solve the issues that pop up with computers they buy.
>I honestly don't know what to recommend to people anymore who ask me where
>to go to buy.
>Admittedly, ANY kind of phone tech support isn't the easiest thing in the
>world to accomplish.

Hi Dudley

What bugs me is when telephone peeps simply go through a list. If my
particular problem is not on their list, well, they're stumped.

For example, I've occasionally phoned my ISP to ask if they're having
mail server problems.

Me: Are you having an e-mail server problem at the moment?
Them: Do you use Outlook Express, Mr Hodson?
Me: No, I use Eudora.
Them: Sorry, Mr Hodson, we only support OE, not Eudora.
I feel like saying: "So f'ing what!" Of course, I'm far too polite to
say so.

Ditto re FreeAgent and news-servers.

Regards and about to self combust
James
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:31:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 10 May 2005 04:29:00 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>Here's a place to go to entertain yourself for the next 30 minutes:
>
>http://www.gripe2ed.com/scoop/story/2003/6/12/10720/019...
>
>One common complaint I read is that "THEY HANG UP ON YOU...." I couldn't
>believe it but it's common, when one of these guys from Bangalore or
>Hyderabad does not like the direction the conversation is going they hang up
>in your ear. :-)

Hi Dalli (Lama?)

Excellent. Actually, it really is a shame that those from India are
receiving a bad press here. In general, Indians are more than pretty
well educated, certainly better than UKians in general.

Also, it seems to me, that many IT bods in the UK are originally from
India - or, rather, their parents or grandparents were. British empire
and all that.

I have also heard, but can't truly state, that most Indian call centre
operator people are also very well educated.

Western companies use people from the sub-continent purely as a cost
saving excercise.

James
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 8:32:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 9 May 2005 11:14:00 -0700, "pr" <proffice@twcny.rr.com> wrote:

>Isn't this version of English known as the "Queen's English?" I
>never heard of the King's English... :) 

And thank goodness for that! Have you ever heard Prince Charles speak?

James
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:16:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
news:B69ge.1462$DC2.310@okepread01...
> Chris Curtis wrote:
>> Hi Crash
>>
>> We still use Office 97 at the office (our company database would need
>> some development on it to bring it up to 2000) and I've never had
>> trouble putting it on out XP (Professional) machines. Now you've got
>> me worried!
>
>
> Office 97 is a strange one. I got the wife a budget $399 Gateway a few
> years back, XP home, and before I'd heard about the compatibility thing, I
> loaded 97 on it no problem! A few months later I got my XPS, with XP
> home, and the only thing I actually wanted from Office 97, was Word to
> have spell checker with Outlook Express. I ended up with all kinds of
> things botched up, including Outlook Express, and right now I can't even
> remember all the little things. I went to M/S site where they had a
> repair list of things to edit in the registry about a yard long to
> uninstall Office 97, so I wasn't a random case, plus a friend down in
> Texas (no, not Varmit) who's a runs the networking at a hospital told me
> they were warned against using it on XP... The M/S cleanup list did NOT
> cure all the problems, so I figured it was a good time to get rid of all
> Dell's bloatware and get things the way I wanted it............

No, not had a single problem! The only thing I can think that might be
different is that we use Outlook 2000/2002 as an Exchange client and they
are usually installed from the server before Office 97.

Chris
May 14, 2005 11:04:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Have you ever tried ringing HSBC recently?

It is just as bad :-)

Mike


"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:kRufe.10346$BE3.4840@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
> please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
>
>
>
> My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
> graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them
> was
> a pleasure.
>
>
>
> Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
>
>
>
> Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
> trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to
> the
> conclusion that it was both.
>
>
>
> When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
> confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
> classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
> them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were
> trying
> to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
> don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems
> like
> my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
>
>
>
> Example:
>
>
>
> Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
>
>
>
> Long Pause.
>
>
>
> Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
>
>
>
> Me: "No, Usenet. newsgroups. the news server."
>
>
>
> Very long Pause.
>
>
>
> Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
>
>
>
> Me: "Never mind."
>
>
>
> In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
> don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
> mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making
> you
> jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad
> and
> impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
> fault.
>
>
>
> Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically,
> good
> for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
> backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
>
>
> Dallas
>
>
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 12:52:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 14 May 2005 19:04:57 +0000 (UTC), "Mike"
<mike@SPAMmichael-cracknell.coDOTuk> wrote:

>Have you ever tried ringing HSBC recently?
>
>It is just as bad :-)

Nope :-/ Llllllllllllllllllloyds TSB here. Incidentally, their call
centre people also are mainly Welsh.

James
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 1:58:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I had to phone Barclays to ask about a education maintaince loan and I could
barely understand her, she spoke so fast as well. D-link are also like this
and I tried using the phonetic alphabet like Delta-Echo etc since I do it
with everything now as its saves confusion, he didn't know what I was
talking about. I love blueyonder, their call centre must be in Liverpool or
something, so easy to understand them, nice being able to talk to people
where you don't struggle to understand or just agree because you cant be
botherd to say "WTF" for the 50th time. I feel sorry for next gen people
like my kids (when I have them lol) because with all these companies going
of-shore, where are all the jobs going to be, I reckon even shelf stacking
will be, like they put it on a conveyer belt and it just comes all the way
from somewhere else

--
Do you want to join a freelance design team? Can you code or design? Want to
join a team who is strict on Web standards complacency?
Go to www.deadlyhosting.com to see what positions we have available.
--

"Mike" <mike@SPAMmichael-cracknell.coDOTuk> wrote in message
news:D 65i4p$clh$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Have you ever tried ringing HSBC recently?
>
> It is just as bad :-)
>
> Mike
>
>
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
> news:kRufe.10346$BE3.4840@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
>> please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
>>
>>
>>
>> My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
>> graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them
>> was
>> a pleasure.
>>
>>
>>
>> Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
>>
>>
>>
>> Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
>> trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to
>> the
>> conclusion that it was both.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
>> confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
>> classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
>> them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were
>> trying
>> to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
>> don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems
>> like
>> my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
>>
>>
>>
>> Example:
>>
>>
>>
>> Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
>>
>>
>>
>> Long Pause.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
>>
>>
>>
>> Me: "No, Usenet. newsgroups. the news server."
>>
>>
>>
>> Very long Pause.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
>>
>>
>>
>> Me: "Never mind."
>>
>>
>>
>> In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
>> don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
>> mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making
>> you
>> jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad
>> and
>> impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
>> fault.
>>
>>
>>
>> Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically,
>> good
>> for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope
>> a
>> backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
>>
>>
>> Dallas
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 6:13:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 16 May 2005 09:58:30 GMT, "Chris Harries"
<chrisflyer@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>I had to phone Barclays to ask about a education maintaince loan and I could
>barely understand her, she spoke so fast as well. D-link are also like this
>and I tried using the phonetic alphabet like Delta-Echo etc since I do it
>with everything now as its saves confusion, he didn't know what I was
>talking about. I love blueyonder, their call centre must be in Liverpool or
>something, so easy to understand them, nice being able to talk to people
>where you don't struggle to understand or just agree because you cant be
>botherd to say "WTF" for the 50th time.

Hi Chris

Scouse-speak is no problem for me as I once lived quite near to
Liverpool. More precisely, I lived in Ainsdale, a place between Liv
and Southport.

I was in my local Barclays' bank a while ago - I was combining a cycle
ride with paying off a bit of the old credit card. As usual, the
teller asked my for my post code just in case I happened to be a major
money launderer.

"Bravo, November, 1, 4 ... 9, Papa, Sierra," I stated.

It turned out that that lady's hubby flies Cessnas from Shoreham
Airport (EGKA), the strip where I base my own simulated Cessna 172.
When studying for his PPL, he used his wife to test him on his
phonetic alphabet. Naturally, she picked it up at the same time.

Barclays was a tad quiet to she and I spent a few moments testing each
other on our phonetic alphabet knowledge. My FSing probably gave me
the advantage :-)

Personally, I learnt all that stuff from my days using a dictaphone
Missus!). The typists at the life assurance company I used to work for
in Guildford insisted on everybody, but everybody, using phonetics
when dictating letters ... not that our doing so prevented them making
some horrendous typos.

Cheers
James
!