Offshore customer support

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

(Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
please re-read and you will see that I am not.)


My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them was
a pleasure.


Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...


Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to the
conclusion that it was both.


When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were trying
to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems like
my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.


Example:


Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".


Long Pause.


Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"


Me: "No, Usenet… newsgroups… the news server."


Very long Pause.


Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."


Me: "Never mind."


In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making you
jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad and
impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
fault.


Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically, good
for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.


Dallas
36 answers Last reply
More about offshore customer support
  1. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Well if you know what I think...okay even though you don't want to know what
    I think :) , I'm sure we have all had good and bad experiences, but which
    outweighs which. A guy like me from Washington State living in Arizona and
    being old enough to not want to admit what that is...Well heck, even if they
    do know what they are doing, I can't understand a thing they are saying. Of
    course that's true with much of the tech support in the U.S. Really, as a
    whole I think offshore and tech support is an oxymoron...don't belong in the
    same sentence.

    Oh well, enough belly-aching for now.

    Mr. Steve

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:kRufe.10346$BE3.4840@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
    > please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
    >
    >
    >
    > My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
    > graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them
    > was
    > a pleasure.
    >
    >
    >
    > Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
    >
    >
    >
    > Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
    > trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to
    > the
    > conclusion that it was both.
    >
    >
    >
    > When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
    > confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
    > classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
    > them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were
    > trying
    > to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
    > don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems
    > like
    > my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
    >
    >
    >
    > Example:
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
    >
    >
    >
    > Long Pause.
    >
    >
    >
    > Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "No, Usenet. newsgroups. the news server."
    >
    >
    >
    > Very long Pause.
    >
    >
    >
    > Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "Never mind."
    >
    >
    >
    > In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
    > don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
    > mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making
    > you
    > jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad
    > and
    > impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
    > fault.
    >
    >
    >
    > Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically,
    > good
    > for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
    > backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
    >
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  2. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Tech offshore outsourcing was obviously a top management concept, and has
    effected several of the companies I have dealt with; Dell and Earthlink.
    I have already dumped Dell. Earthlink doesn't matter really as I never call
    them anyway. I use the XP dial up and don't even have their software
    installed on my system.
    The way I understand it from my own inside sources in industry is that a lot
    of the companies that have gone this route are taking a long and serious
    revisiting of the concept. Sales demographics will be the bottom line on
    what happens in the future. The off shore tech support will either live or
    die based on the customer base reaction. So far, it's a toss up for several
    large companies using offshore techs. There is a definite decline showing in
    the customer overall satisfaction data stats, and the future for the
    decision to go this route is very much in review by top management.
    Dudley
    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:kRufe.10346$BE3.4840@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
    > please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
    >
    >
    >
    > My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
    > graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them
    > was
    > a pleasure.
    >
    >
    >
    > Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
    >
    >
    >
    > Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
    > trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to
    > the
    > conclusion that it was both.
    >
    >
    >
    > When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
    > confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
    > classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
    > them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were
    > trying
    > to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
    > don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems
    > like
    > my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
    >
    >
    >
    > Example:
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
    >
    >
    >
    > Long Pause.
    >
    >
    >
    > Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "No, Usenet… newsgroups… the news server."
    >
    >
    >
    > Very long Pause.
    >
    >
    >
    > Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "Never mind."
    >
    >
    >
    > In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
    > don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
    > mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making
    > you
    > jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad
    > and
    > impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
    > fault.
    >
    >
    >
    > Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically,
    > good
    > for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
    > backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
    >
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  3. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    You are exactly right. You can explain something as simple to the
    tech non- support person as , " Evertime I boot up my PC, it works OK
    for 10 minutes and then locks up"..

    After about a 3 minute wait, they will say, " Have you tried
    rebooting the computer?"

    It's absolutely unreal. I am starting to think that they just try and
    piss us off, so that we will hang up and then they can go onto the
    next call.

    I even had one jerk , who called me on my Cellphone at dinner in a
    restaurant, hours after I had talked to tech support, to remind me
    that if I receive an email requesting a evaluation of the tech
    support I received , that a score of 1-9 was the range and that 9
    signified that I was very happy with the support.

    I waited about a minute, and then said to him, " Don't you have any
    score that is lower than 1" ?

    He paused for about 10 seconds and said, " No I am afraid that is the
    lowest". I hung up on him, then..


    Bob


    On Sun, 08 May 2005 20:42:56 GMT, "Dallas"
    <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

    >(Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
    >please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
    >
    >
    >
    >My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
    >graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them was
    >a pleasure.
    >
    >
    >
    >Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
    >
    >
    >
    >Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
    >trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to the
    >conclusion that it was both.
    >
    >
    >
    >When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
    >confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
    >classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
    >them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were trying
    >to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
    >don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems like
    >my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
    >
    >
    >
    >Example:
    >
    >
    >
    >Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
    >
    >
    >
    >Long Pause.
    >
    >
    >
    >Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
    >
    >
    >
    >Me: "No, Usenet… newsgroups… the news server."
    >
    >
    >
    >Very long Pause.
    >
    >
    >
    >Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
    >
    >
    >
    >Me: "Never mind."
    >
    >
    >
    >In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
    >don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
    >mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making you
    >jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad and
    >impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
    >fault.
    >
    >
    >
    >Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically, good
    >for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
    >backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
    >
    >
    >Dallas
    >
  4. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: RIPEMD160

    Hi Bob,

    On Sun, 08 May 2005 22:08:10 GMT, you wrote:

    > You are exactly right. You can explain something as simple to the
    > tech non- support person as , " Evertime I boot up my PC, it works
    > OK for 10 minutes and then locks up"..

    > After about a 3 minute wait, they will say, " Have you tried
    > rebooting the computer?"

    To be fair, I've received just this sort of "support" from onshore,
    English speaking tech support personnel as well (from my ISP and from
    various software companies).

    My mother has Qwest DSL service, and a few weeks ago, she was having
    some problems connecting to the Internet (she's admittedly not very
    computer savvy). After spending almost an hour on the phone with a
    Qwest tech support person (he was in Denver, I think), they couldn't
    solve the problem. She made a three-way connection call to me, with
    the tech support person still on the line. In just a few seconds, I
    figured out what the problem was (a reset password), and she was back
    online. Listening to my mother's description of the issue, it was
    easy enough for anyone to understand (or so I thought). All the tech
    support person said was "Oh right! I was thinking about more
    complicated scenarios!" He had her re-staring the computer several
    times, changing network settings, diagnosing the modem, etc., but
    never thought to ask about the password situation! Sort of like
    looking at a "dead" car, and not bothering to check the fuel gauge
    first! :-)

    - --
    Melissa

    PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/

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  5. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    I think that the overseas support entirely depends on whether it is
    technical or not. Tech support is very poor and by definition difficult to
    communicate. Mind you, tech support is often poor in the shop where you
    bought equipment in your own town. However, I have found that , for example
    in dealing with admin. such as payment or switching services, the support
    from New Delhi for British Telecom has been fine. I have even had two
    reductions in my monthly payments just by asking nicely!


    Cheers,

    Quilly


    An individual reply goes into my spam filter
  6. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dallas wrote:
    > (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
    > please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
    >
    >
    >
    > My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
    > graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them was
    > a pleasure.
    >
    >
    >
    > Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
    >
    >
    >
    > Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
    > trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to the
    > conclusion that it was both.
    >
    >
    >
    > When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
    > confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
    > classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
    > them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were trying
    > to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
    > don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems like
    > my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
    >
    >
    >
    > Example:
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
    >
    >
    >
    > Long Pause.
    >
    >
    >
    > Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "No, Usenet… newsgroups… the news server."
    >
    >
    >
    > Very long Pause.
    >
    >
    >
    > Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "Never mind."
    >
    >
    >
    > In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
    > don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
    > mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making you
    > jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad and
    > impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
    > fault.
    >
    >
    >
    > Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically, good
    > for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
    > backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
    >
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
    Well I for one had a very good experience with Microsoft and a chap
    from India. My computer was locked up and it was telling me to inset disc .
    After the usual run-around connecting to their help, this chap stayed
    on line with me through 3 reformats to make sure it was working right.
    All the time chatting and giving me some valuable information about
    setting up and running my computer. bob
  7. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: RIPEMD160

    Hi Bob,

    On Sun, 08 May 2005 22:34:09 GMT, you wrote:

    > Well I for one had a very good experience with Microsoft and a chap
    > from India.

    I'll chime in here with my own good experience with an Indian tech
    support person...

    Shortly after hooking up a new NAT router, I was having some
    connection problems. The tech support person was a woman in India.
    She quickly and accurately diagnosed the problem, talked me through
    the process of setting the IP addresses correctly, and the problem
    was solved!

    There may be several valid issues to discuss concerning the
    outsourcing of various jobs, but much can depend on the individuals
    involved as well. I've had both good and bad experiences with both
    onshore and offshore support personnel, so I tend to judge each
    situation on its own merits.

    - --
    Melissa

    PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/

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  8. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    I for one can sympathize with both side of the issue. I purchased a
    Dell back in '96........a PII 450. It had an initial problem with a CD
    drive. I made one call to tech support describing the problem. The
    next morning, a technician showed up at my doorstep with a new drive,
    installed it, and left. That was it. Unbelievable service.

    After numerous upgrades, the system finally outlived its usefulness. I
    was going to purchase a new machine from Dell last year, but was
    hearing numerous complaints, mainly about quality components, and a
    terrible tech service. Things must have really gone down hill!

    I chose instead to build my own system, purchasing almost all the
    components through NewEgg. It worked out very well. Got a very good
    machine, at a much cheaper cost than going the OEM route.

    After retiring from the Air Force, I began working for a Washington
    State based manufacturing company primarily building keyboards, as well
    as other computer input devices. I worked in quality control, and
    performed failure analysis/repair on returned product. At times, I was
    asked to help out, manning the customer support lines. Believe me,
    that was quite an experience. Some of the calls were unbelievable!.
    Amazing how many people have trouble plugging in a power cord!

    We had a small customer service area, and anyone taking calls were all
    experienced technicians. We did not have to follow someone's idea of a
    Q and A checklist. Everything was handled as a unique situation. If
    we couldn't put our heads together and come up with the right answer,
    we transferred the call directly to an engineer. In other cases, we
    would call the customer back after doing more research.

    Nothing is more disgusting than spending money on any product, and
    finding yourself "out in the cold" after the deal is done! Hard to
    imagine any corporation placing such a low priority on customer
    service..............

    Propwash
  9. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Lawn Dart wrote:
    > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    > Hash: RIPEMD160
    >
    > Hi Bob,
    >
    > On Sun, 08 May 2005 22:08:10 GMT, you wrote:
    >
    >
    >>You are exactly right. You can explain something as simple to the
    >>tech non- support person as , " Evertime I boot up my PC, it works
    >>OK for 10 minutes and then locks up"..
    >
    >
    >
    >>After about a 3 minute wait, they will say, " Have you tried
    >>rebooting the computer?"
    >
    >
    > To be fair, I've received just this sort of "support" from onshore,
    > English speaking tech support personnel as well (from my ISP and from
    > various software companies).
    >
    > My mother has Qwest DSL service, and a few weeks ago, she was having
    > some problems connecting to the Internet (she's admittedly not very
    > computer savvy). After spending almost an hour on the phone with a
    > Qwest tech support person (he was in Denver, I think), they couldn't
    > solve the problem. She made a three-way connection call to me, with
    > tech support person still on the line. In just a few seconds, I
    > figured out what the problem was (a reset password), and she was back
    > online. Listening to my mother's description of the issue, it was
    > easy enough for anyone to understand (or so I thought). All the tech
    > support person said was "Oh right! I was thinking about more
    > complicated scenarios!" He had her re-staring the computer several
    > times, changing network settings, diagnosing the modem, etc., but
    > he never thought to ask about the password situation! Sort of like
    > looking at a "dead" car, and not bothering to check the fuel gauge
    > first! :-)
    >
    > - --
    > Melissa
    >
    > PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/
    >
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    That's the trick for the tech. He-she must know how to ask the right
    questions.

    The car reminds me of my neighbor. He bought a car from an upstate
    dealer, got a real good deal. We were sitting having coffee one morning
    and an eighteen wheeler drove down the street. The driver opened up the
    trailer put out the ramps and drove a car out.

    About a month after the delivery the car wouldn't start. He called the
    same dealer. Next day same eighteen wheeler was back for car. Day the
    day after that the service manager called. Mr. ... we just checked
    your car, it was out of gas.

    Mike
  10. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dallas wrote:

    > When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to
    not
    > confuse them.

    Isn't this version of English known as the "Queen's English?" I
    never heard of the King's English... :)

    --
    Peter
  11. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    The only thing as intimidating as calling tech support for a broken computer
    is taking your car into a dealership for repairs.

    Arthur

    "Mr. Steve" <surveyorsteve@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:PSAfe.14556$tQ.12042@fed1read06...
    > Well if you know what I think...okay even though you don't want to know
    > what I think :) , I'm sure we have all had good and bad experiences, but
    > which outweighs which. A guy like me from Washington State living in
    > Arizona and being old enough to not want to admit what that is...Well
    > heck, even if they do know what they are doing, I can't understand a thing
    > they are saying. Of course that's true with much of the tech support in
    > the U.S. Really, as a whole I think offshore and tech support is an
    > oxymoron...don't belong in the same sentence.
    >
    > Oh well, enough belly-aching for now.
    >
    > Mr. Steve
    >
    > "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    > news:kRufe.10346$BE3.4840@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >> (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
    >> please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
    >> graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them
    >> was
    >> a pleasure.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
    >> trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to
    >> the
    >> conclusion that it was both.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
    >> confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
    >> classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
    >> them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were
    >> trying
    >> to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
    >> don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems
    >> like
    >> my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Example:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Long Pause.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Me: "No, Usenet. newsgroups. the news server."
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Very long Pause.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Me: "Never mind."
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
    >> don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
    >> mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making
    >> you
    >> jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad
    >> and
    >> impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
    >> fault.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically,
    >> good
    >> for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope
    >> a
    >> backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
    >>
    >>
    >> Dallas
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  12. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    In assessing a quality question like tech support, or a specific company's
    hardware, it's fairly difficult to reach a definite conclusion when using a
    data base as large as a newsgroup. I think you can come away with a general
    idea of the situation however.
    I think for Dell, my final judgment on their failing grade came upon
    reaching a point over time, as my own experience using a personal computer
    rose and I was exposed to the Dell tech system as that learning curve was
    occurring in real time.
    The language problem was really very bad, but only one factor for me. What
    really turned me off to Dell, was what first was a sense, then later on, as
    my own knowledge and experience working with the computer rose, the reality
    that the Dell techs from the instant they picked up the phone, were not
    working the problem from what I was telling them. They were working a canned
    solutions method based on key macros. In other words, as they listened to
    the first sentence I spoke, they seemed to be looking at specific
    phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen macro
    solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
    Aside from an occasional tech at Dell who I felt was actually engaging me
    based on what I was telling him/her, my overall impression was always the
    same. They were NOT dealing with my specific issue at all, and were NOT
    really interested in the data I was giving them, but were dealing with me as
    something to be rid of ASAP by using what their "book" told them would be a
    macro solution covering all bases. This was almost invariably a system
    restore!
    It's amazing how high level management decisions are made in industry today.
    Sometimes very large decisions are made for simple reasons that get buried
    in a non existent complicated answer no one ever finds.
    It wouldn't surprise me in the least to discover someday that the release of
    XP with it's ability for system restore, was in large part, a huge factor in
    the decision to go overseas with tech support. When the large percentage of
    the answer for a called in issue is to simply do a system restore, there
    isn't really all that much need for communicative skills :-)
    I guess it's like anything else really. The best way to have good tech
    support is to become a good tech and do it yourself. This is what I have
    done as well as most everyone I know. The people I REALLY feel sorry for are
    the millions of plain simple folks out there who are not gamers, not
    engineers, but just plain folks, who buy into these large "support" systems,
    then have to try and work in that system as it exists today.
    We have several family members who own Dells. When they have a problem, they
    usually end up calling me rather than deal with Dell on the phone :-)
    It's a shame, and I hope Dell gets wise to a better way of doing things
    before they end up destroying what they have created over the years. Outfits
    like "geeks on call" are popping up all over the place to fill the gap left
    by dissatisfied customers from large companies like Dell. If local tech
    support turns out to be good, and the cost is reasonable, I can see an awful
    lot of Dell customers opting for different computer solutions.
    Dudley Henriques
    International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
    Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
    dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
    (take out the trash :-)


    "Propwash" <propwash@statnetworks.net> wrote in message
    news:1115624048.148993.117930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >I for one can sympathize with both side of the issue. I purchased a
    > Dell back in '96........a PII 450. It had an initial problem with a CD
    > drive. I made one call to tech support describing the problem. The
    > next morning, a technician showed up at my doorstep with a new drive,
    > installed it, and left. That was it. Unbelievable service.
    >
    > After numerous upgrades, the system finally outlived its usefulness. I
    > was going to purchase a new machine from Dell last year, but was
    > hearing numerous complaints, mainly about quality components, and a
    > terrible tech service. Things must have really gone down hill!
    >
    > I chose instead to build my own system, purchasing almost all the
    > components through NewEgg. It worked out very well. Got a very good
    > machine, at a much cheaper cost than going the OEM route.
    >
    > After retiring from the Air Force, I began working for a Washington
    > State based manufacturing company primarily building keyboards, as well
    > as other computer input devices. I worked in quality control, and
    > performed failure analysis/repair on returned product. At times, I was
    > asked to help out, manning the customer support lines. Believe me,
    > that was quite an experience. Some of the calls were unbelievable!.
    > Amazing how many people have trouble plugging in a power cord!
    >
    > We had a small customer service area, and anyone taking calls were all
    > experienced technicians. We did not have to follow someone's idea of a
    > Q and A checklist. Everything was handled as a unique situation. If
    > we couldn't put our heads together and come up with the right answer,
    > we transferred the call directly to an engineer. In other cases, we
    > would call the customer back after doing more research.
    >
    > Nothing is more disgusting than spending money on any product, and
    > finding yourself "out in the cold" after the deal is done! Hard to
    > imagine any corporation placing such a low priority on customer
    > service..............
    >
    > Propwash
    >
  13. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sun, 08 May 2005 20:42:56 GMT, "Dallas"
    <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

    >(Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
    >please re-read and you will see that I am not.)

    Hi Dalli

    Not a racial slur, IMO. Sometimes the truth will mildly hurt others.
    Call a spade a spade and not a bloody shovel - ie, tell it how it is.

    My own little part of the world has many distinct accents and
    dialects, several with are not exactly easy to comprehend to my ear.
    My ear is Scouse, NE Lancs, Surrey, Sussex and public school, FWIW :-)

    If Dell, in this case, wishes to save money by using foreign (from my
    and your point of view) call centre operaters, they should be prepared
    to accept that not all of their customers are able to comprehend those
    others' accents.

    Thinking about it, we are reasonably lucky in that English is our
    native tongue. Imagine what it must be like for, for example, a German
    speaker trying to understand English when spoken in an accent they
    have never heard previously.

    Standing by to receive the +/- comments ...

    Regards
    James
  14. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sun, 8 May 2005 15:29:03 -0700, Lawn Dart
    <willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote:

    >To be fair, I've received just this sort of "support" from onshore,
    >English speaking tech support personnel as well (from my ISP and from
    >various software companies).

    Very true :-)

    Competence - or lack of the same - is really the issue.

    James
  15. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dudley Henriques"
    > phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen macro
    > solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.

    Wow... nice article. And you're right, I recall them tapping on their
    computer keys to search their knowledge base for a canned solution.


    Scroll down to Open letter to Michael Dell:
    http://news.com.com/2010-1042-5130816.html?tag=nefd_acpro

    Dallas
  16. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    I never contacted Dell, or even brought the matter of my leaving their
    customer base to their attention. For all I know, I'm still listed as a
    customer.
    Usually I would do this with a company I was leaving, but in this case, the
    service was so bad and the scenario so constant that there could have been
    no way top management wouldn't have known about it. I've never been a fan of
    the "letter" anyway. These are usually noted and classified, but no real
    change takes place until the sales figures actually change on the charts.

    You reach a point where you're not interested in helping a company with your
    input. You just want to get as far away from the aggravation as possible,
    which is exactly what happened in my case. I left Dell,and will never return
    to them. I would rate however, the time I was with Dell well spent, as if
    nothing else, their bad service forced me to learn what I had to learn to
    fix my own issues. The result was an education I might never have obtained
    had I received the service Dell still hypes in it's sales program.
    DH

    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:djOfe.11108$HL2.7551@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "Dudley Henriques"
    >> phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen macro
    >> solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
    >
    > Wow... nice article. And you're right, I recall them tapping on their
    > computer keys to search their knowledge base for a canned solution.
    >
    >
    > Scroll down to Open letter to Michael Dell:
    > http://news.com.com/2010-1042-5130816.html?tag=nefd_acpro
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  17. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dudley, you hit the nail on the head! I have become quite proficient at
    restoring other's computers that have become bogged down with spyware,
    adware, malware, and the odd virus and trojan. I only work with people I
    know and don't charge anything. Although a paid lunch now and then will be
    accepted. Thankfully, my newest Dell has never given me a problem and if it
    does, I'll never call Dell support...as it doesn't exist.
    Tom
    "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
    news:b9Kfe.16$wM2.5@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    > In assessing a quality question like tech support, or a specific company's
    > hardware, it's fairly difficult to reach a definite conclusion when using
    > a data base as large as a newsgroup. I think you can come away with a
    > general idea of the situation however.
    > I think for Dell, my final judgment on their failing grade came upon
    > reaching a point over time, as my own experience using a personal computer
    > rose and I was exposed to the Dell tech system as that learning curve was
    > occurring in real time.
    > The language problem was really very bad, but only one factor for me. What
    > really turned me off to Dell, was what first was a sense, then later on,
    > as my own knowledge and experience working with the computer rose, the
    > reality that the Dell techs from the instant they picked up the phone,
    > were not working the problem from what I was telling them. They were
    > working a canned solutions method based on key macros. In other words, as
    > they listened to the first sentence I spoke, they seemed to be looking at
    > specific
    > phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen macro
    > solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
    > Aside from an occasional tech at Dell who I felt was actually engaging me
    > based on what I was telling him/her, my overall impression was always the
    > same. They were NOT dealing with my specific issue at all, and were NOT
    > really interested in the data I was giving them, but were dealing with me
    > as something to be rid of ASAP by using what their "book" told them would
    > be a macro solution covering all bases. This was almost invariably a
    > system restore!
    > It's amazing how high level management decisions are made in industry
    > today. Sometimes very large decisions are made for simple reasons that get
    > buried in a non existent complicated answer no one ever finds.
    > It wouldn't surprise me in the least to discover someday that the release
    > of XP with it's ability for system restore, was in large part, a huge
    > factor in the decision to go overseas with tech support. When the large
    > percentage of the answer for a called in issue is to simply do a system
    > restore, there isn't really all that much need for communicative skills
    > :-)
    > I guess it's like anything else really. The best way to have good tech
    > support is to become a good tech and do it yourself. This is what I have
    > done as well as most everyone I know. The people I REALLY feel sorry for
    > are the millions of plain simple folks out there who are not gamers, not
    > engineers, but just plain folks, who buy into these large "support"
    > systems, then have to try and work in that system as it exists today.
    > We have several family members who own Dells. When they have a problem,
    > they usually end up calling me rather than deal with Dell on the phone :-)
    > It's a shame, and I hope Dell gets wise to a better way of doing things
    > before they end up destroying what they have created over the years.
    > Outfits like "geeks on call" are popping up all over the place to fill the
    > gap left by dissatisfied customers from large companies like Dell. If
    > local tech support turns out to be good, and the cost is reasonable, I can
    > see an awful lot of Dell customers opting for different computer
    > solutions.
    > Dudley Henriques
    > International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
    > Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
    > dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
    > (take out the trash :-)
    >
    >
    >
    > "Propwash" <propwash@statnetworks.net> wrote in message
    > news:1115624048.148993.117930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >>I for one can sympathize with both side of the issue. I purchased a
    >> Dell back in '96........a PII 450. It had an initial problem with a CD
    >> drive. I made one call to tech support describing the problem. The
    >> next morning, a technician showed up at my doorstep with a new drive,
    >> installed it, and left. That was it. Unbelievable service.
    >>
    >> After numerous upgrades, the system finally outlived its usefulness. I
    >> was going to purchase a new machine from Dell last year, but was
    >> hearing numerous complaints, mainly about quality components, and a
    >> terrible tech service. Things must have really gone down hill!
    >>
    >> I chose instead to build my own system, purchasing almost all the
    >> components through NewEgg. It worked out very well. Got a very good
    >> machine, at a much cheaper cost than going the OEM route.
    >>
    >> After retiring from the Air Force, I began working for a Washington
    >> State based manufacturing company primarily building keyboards, as well
    >> as other computer input devices. I worked in quality control, and
    >> performed failure analysis/repair on returned product. At times, I was
    >> asked to help out, manning the customer support lines. Believe me,
    >> that was quite an experience. Some of the calls were unbelievable!.
    >> Amazing how many people have trouble plugging in a power cord!
    >>
    >> We had a small customer service area, and anyone taking calls were all
    >> experienced technicians. We did not have to follow someone's idea of a
    >> Q and A checklist. Everything was handled as a unique situation. If
    >> we couldn't put our heads together and come up with the right answer,
    >> we transferred the call directly to an engineer. In other cases, we
    >> would call the customer back after doing more research.
    >>
    >> Nothing is more disgusting than spending money on any product, and
    >> finding yourself "out in the cold" after the deal is done! Hard to
    >> imagine any corporation placing such a low priority on customer
    >> service..............
    >>
    >> Propwash
    >>
    >
    >
  18. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dudley Henriques wrote:
    > I never contacted Dell, or even brought the matter of my leaving their
    > customer base to their attention. For all I know, I'm still listed as
    > a customer.
    > Usually I would do this with a company I was leaving, but in this
    > case, the service was so bad and the scenario so constant that there
    > could have been no way top management wouldn't have known about it.
    > I've never been a fan of the "letter" anyway. These are usually noted
    > and classified, but no real change takes place until the sales
    > figures actually change on the charts.
    >
    > You reach a point where you're not interested in helping a company
    > with your input. You just want to get as far away from the
    > aggravation as possible, which is exactly what happened in my case. I
    > left Dell,and will never return to them. I would rate however, the
    > time I was with Dell well spent, as if nothing else, their bad
    > service forced me to learn what I had to learn to fix my own issues.
    > The result was an education I might never have obtained had I
    > received the service Dell still hypes in it's sales program.
    > DH
    >
    > "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    > news:djOfe.11108$HL2.7551@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>
    >> "Dudley Henriques"
    >>> phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen
    >>> macro solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
    >>
    >> Wow... nice article. And you're right, I recall them tapping on
    >> their computer keys to search their knowledge base for a canned
    >> solution.
    >>
    >>
    >> Scroll down to Open letter to Michael Dell:
    >> http://news.com.com/2010-1042-5130816.html?tag=nefd_acpro
    >>
    >> Dallas

    I bought a Mesh computer in April 2004 and my experience may be of interest
    to those in the U.K. It worked 'straight out of the boxes' and I only (so
    far) had to ring for advice once. The call was noted and an engineer rang
    back in about 20 minutes and talked me through the problem, a slight
    adjustment. Since then I have had a couple of somewhat OT queries. I have
    sent these by e-mail and they have been responded to in a short time. I
    would be happy both to recommend their products and to buy from them again.
    I have nothing to do with the company other than as a customer.

    Ches
  19. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Hi Ches;
    Good to see you here.
    Dudley

    "Ches" <ches@lineone.net> wrote in message
    news:QSQfe.28799$G8.1744@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
    > Dudley Henriques wrote:
    >> I never contacted Dell, or even brought the matter of my leaving their
    >> customer base to their attention. For all I know, I'm still listed as
    >> a customer.
    >> Usually I would do this with a company I was leaving, but in this
    >> case, the service was so bad and the scenario so constant that there
    >> could have been no way top management wouldn't have known about it.
    >> I've never been a fan of the "letter" anyway. These are usually noted
    >> and classified, but no real change takes place until the sales
    >> figures actually change on the charts.
    >>
    >> You reach a point where you're not interested in helping a company
    >> with your input. You just want to get as far away from the
    >> aggravation as possible, which is exactly what happened in my case. I
    >> left Dell,and will never return to them. I would rate however, the
    >> time I was with Dell well spent, as if nothing else, their bad
    >> service forced me to learn what I had to learn to fix my own issues.
    >> The result was an education I might never have obtained had I
    >> received the service Dell still hypes in it's sales program.
    >> DH
    >>
    >> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    >> news:djOfe.11108$HL2.7551@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >>>
    >>> "Dudley Henriques"
    >>>> phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen
    >>>> macro solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
    >>>
    >>> Wow... nice article. And you're right, I recall them tapping on
    >>> their computer keys to search their knowledge base for a canned
    >>> solution.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Scroll down to Open letter to Michael Dell:
    >>> http://news.com.com/2010-1042-5130816.html?tag=nefd_acpro
    >>>
    >>> Dallas
    >
    > I bought a Mesh computer in April 2004 and my experience may be of
    > interest
    > to those in the U.K. It worked 'straight out of the boxes' and I only (so
    > far) had to ring for advice once. The call was noted and an engineer rang
    > back in about 20 minutes and talked me through the problem, a slight
    > adjustment. Since then I have had a couple of somewhat OT queries. I have
    > sent these by e-mail and they have been responded to in a short time. I
    > would be happy both to recommend their products and to buy from them
    > again.
    > I have nothing to do with the company other than as a customer.
    >
    > Ches
    >
    >
    >
  20. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Ches"
    > The call was noted and an engineer rang
    > back in about 20 minutes

    Good support:

    Creative Labs... (Sound Blaster) - great support at least in 2003

    Matrox - Best ever! Intelligent people taking a personal interest in your
    problem. I was trying to put my Matrox G400 graphics card into this
    computer after I built it and it just didn't like it.

    This computer had a chipset that they didn't have in their support
    department so they were going out to buy a motherboard with this new chipset
    to duplicate the problem. I solved the problem by myself, but I thought
    that was pretty amazing support.


    Dallas
  21. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Hi Tom;

    I can't for the life of me figure out how some of these poor everyday people
    manage to solve the issues that pop up with computers they buy.
    I honestly don't know what to recommend to people anymore who ask me where
    to go to buy.
    Admittedly, ANY kind of phone tech support isn't the easiest thing in the
    world to accomplish. I'm sure you've had as much trouble trying to diagnose
    something for someone that I have had. But what these large companies hype
    to the buying public is a crime. They make people feel that competent and
    helpful tech support is available 24/7 as a sales tool and people buy these
    system thinking that all they need to do is pick up the phone and someone on
    the other end who understands what the problem is will solve it for them.
    I have to laugh looking back on my very first Dell tech call. I wasn't even
    up and running past the first boot on my brand new first Dell system (6
    years ago) when I got the old blue screen of death :-) At the time I had 0
    computer skills. I called Dell. It was 11:30 at night. I went through the
    phone automatic response system and was put on hold with music. Well, it was
    late, and I didn't have to do anything the next morning so I held. I watched
    TV with a headset phone on while this was happening. Every 10 minutes or so,
    I got an intercept telling me how valuable my call was to Dell and that a
    tech would be forthcoming. Little did I know that this forthcoming would be
    about the time of the second coming.
    Anyway, about 3AM, the first movie was over and I was still on hold looking
    at my BSD. I figured what the hell, I had spent this much time waiting, I
    might as well wait it out.
    Well, I sort of dozed off a bit with the music in my ears and at 6:30AM, I
    got an automatic voice telling me that a tech would be with me momentarily.
    Five minutes later the tech picked up, and immediately the line went
    flatline......stone cold dial
    tone------------------------------------------------------------------
    He had cut the connection!!!
    I just sat there and laughed like an idiot until I realized that there just
    might be an offside chance that I actually WAS an idiot!!!
    Oh well.....you live and learn :-)
    Dudley


    "Tom Garrett" <garrett451@diespammerscox.net> wrote in message
    news:XIVfe.39719$_K.23510@fed1read03...
    > Dudley, you hit the nail on the head! I have become quite proficient at
    > restoring other's computers that have become bogged down with spyware,
    > adware, malware, and the odd virus and trojan. I only work with people I
    > know and don't charge anything. Although a paid lunch now and then will be
    > accepted. Thankfully, my newest Dell has never given me a problem and if
    > it does, I'll never call Dell support...as it doesn't exist.
    > Tom
    > "Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
    > news:b9Kfe.16$wM2.5@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
    >> In assessing a quality question like tech support, or a specific
    >> company's hardware, it's fairly difficult to reach a definite conclusion
    >> when using a data base as large as a newsgroup. I think you can come away
    >> with a general idea of the situation however.
    >> I think for Dell, my final judgment on their failing grade came upon
    >> reaching a point over time, as my own experience using a personal
    >> computer rose and I was exposed to the Dell tech system as that learning
    >> curve was occurring in real time.
    >> The language problem was really very bad, but only one factor for me.
    >> What really turned me off to Dell, was what first was a sense, then later
    >> on, as my own knowledge and experience working with the computer rose,
    >> the reality that the Dell techs from the instant they picked up the
    >> phone, were not working the problem from what I was telling them. They
    >> were working a canned solutions method based on key macros. In other
    >> words, as they listened to the first sentence I spoke, they seemed to be
    >> looking at specific
    >> phrases or problem areas that led them directly to a pre chosen macro
    >> solution for any number of issues that MIGHT solve this issue.
    >> Aside from an occasional tech at Dell who I felt was actually engaging me
    >> based on what I was telling him/her, my overall impression was always the
    >> same. They were NOT dealing with my specific issue at all, and were NOT
    >> really interested in the data I was giving them, but were dealing with me
    >> as something to be rid of ASAP by using what their "book" told them would
    >> be a macro solution covering all bases. This was almost invariably a
    >> system restore!
    >> It's amazing how high level management decisions are made in industry
    >> today. Sometimes very large decisions are made for simple reasons that
    >> get buried in a non existent complicated answer no one ever finds.
    >> It wouldn't surprise me in the least to discover someday that the release
    >> of XP with it's ability for system restore, was in large part, a huge
    >> factor in the decision to go overseas with tech support. When the large
    >> percentage of the answer for a called in issue is to simply do a system
    >> restore, there isn't really all that much need for communicative skills
    >> :-)
    >> I guess it's like anything else really. The best way to have good tech
    >> support is to become a good tech and do it yourself. This is what I have
    >> done as well as most everyone I know. The people I REALLY feel sorry for
    >> are the millions of plain simple folks out there who are not gamers, not
    >> engineers, but just plain folks, who buy into these large "support"
    >> systems, then have to try and work in that system as it exists today.
    >> We have several family members who own Dells. When they have a problem,
    >> they usually end up calling me rather than deal with Dell on the phone
    >> :-)
    >> It's a shame, and I hope Dell gets wise to a better way of doing things
    >> before they end up destroying what they have created over the years.
    >> Outfits like "geeks on call" are popping up all over the place to fill
    >> the gap left by dissatisfied customers from large companies like Dell. If
    >> local tech support turns out to be good, and the cost is reasonable, I
    >> can see an awful lot of Dell customers opting for different computer
    >> solutions.
    >> Dudley Henriques
    >> International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
    >> Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
    >> dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
    >> (take out the trash :-)
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> "Propwash" <propwash@statnetworks.net> wrote in message
    >> news:1115624048.148993.117930@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >>>I for one can sympathize with both side of the issue. I purchased a
    >>> Dell back in '96........a PII 450. It had an initial problem with a CD
    >>> drive. I made one call to tech support describing the problem. The
    >>> next morning, a technician showed up at my doorstep with a new drive,
    >>> installed it, and left. That was it. Unbelievable service.
    >>>
    >>> After numerous upgrades, the system finally outlived its usefulness. I
    >>> was going to purchase a new machine from Dell last year, but was
    >>> hearing numerous complaints, mainly about quality components, and a
    >>> terrible tech service. Things must have really gone down hill!
    >>>
    >>> I chose instead to build my own system, purchasing almost all the
    >>> components through NewEgg. It worked out very well. Got a very good
    >>> machine, at a much cheaper cost than going the OEM route.
    >>>
    >>> After retiring from the Air Force, I began working for a Washington
    >>> State based manufacturing company primarily building keyboards, as well
    >>> as other computer input devices. I worked in quality control, and
    >>> performed failure analysis/repair on returned product. At times, I was
    >>> asked to help out, manning the customer support lines. Believe me,
    >>> that was quite an experience. Some of the calls were unbelievable!.
    >>> Amazing how many people have trouble plugging in a power cord!
    >>>
    >>> We had a small customer service area, and anyone taking calls were all
    >>> experienced technicians. We did not have to follow someone's idea of a
    >>> Q and A checklist. Everything was handled as a unique situation. If
    >>> we couldn't put our heads together and come up with the right answer,
    >>> we transferred the call directly to an engineer. In other cases, we
    >>> would call the customer back after doing more research.
    >>>
    >>> Nothing is more disgusting than spending money on any product, and
    >>> finding yourself "out in the cold" after the deal is done! Hard to
    >>> imagine any corporation placing such a low priority on customer
    >>> service..............
    >>>
    >>> Propwash
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  22. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Bob Cordone"
    > It's absolutely unreal. I am starting to think that they just try and
    > piss us off, so that we will hang up and then they can go onto the
    > next call.

    Here's a place to go to entertain yourself for the next 30 minutes:

    http://www.gripe2ed.com/scoop/story/2003/6/12/10720/0194

    One common complaint I read is that "THEY HANG UP ON YOU...." I couldn't
    believe it but it's common, when one of these guys from Bangalore or
    Hyderabad does not like the direction the conversation is going they hang up
    in your ear. :-)


    Dallas
  23. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "Dudley Henriques"
    > They make people feel that competent and
    > helpful tech support is available 24/7

    Have you seen their current ad on TV?

    scene: Dark bedroom, middle aged man is lying in bed with his wife asleep
    beside him.

    Middle aged man: "I just wanted to see if you were really there?"

    Midwestern American voice of Dell technician on the phone: "Yes sir,
    24-7-365."

    Middle aged man: "What about leap year?"

    Midwestern American voice of Dell technician on the phone: "366."

    ....Too funny.

    They should do a real life commercial starring Dudley in his headset. :-)

    Dallas
  24. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Dallas wrote:
    >
    > They should do a real life commercial starring Dudley in his headset.


    Yeah, and Gateway could sponser it for Dell.. hehehe I suppose they're
    about as bad, but I haven't heard about it like Dell! I got my Dell XPS and
    haven't had a bit of trouble (except an attempted Office 97 install - not XP
    compatible - screwed things up so bad I had to do a reformat/reinstall to
    finally get things right again about the second week I had it) so haven't
    had the need to call them. I'd been rolling my own for the past decade+,
    but Dell was offering basically what I would have built for less $$$, so I
    figured what the hell, why go to the trouble... It's worked out, but next
    time around I'll be back to doing it myself.........
  25. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    > Matrox - Best ever! Intelligent people taking a personal interest
    > in your problem. I was trying to put my Matrox G400 graphics card
    > into this computer after I built it and it just didn't like it.
    >
    > This computer had a chipset that they didn't have in their support
    > department so they were going out to buy a motherboard with this new
    > chipset to duplicate the problem. I solved the problem by myself,
    > but I thought that was pretty amazing support.
    >
    >
    > Dallas

    Matrox are fantastic! When I first tried to install my Parhelia (in the UK)
    I could only get two monitors to work. They invited me to bring my pc up to
    their main office in Berkshire so that they could look at it. It worked fine
    with all three monitors, and I came home. I still could not get my third
    monitor to work so they sent me a spare monitor from their own office to
    try! Delivered by courier the following day. It worked OK and they said I
    could keep the monitor 17 inch !!
    Their help forum in Canada is the best I have ever used anywhere.


    --
    Cheers,

    Quilly


    An individual reply goes into my spam filter
  26. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Mon, 09 May 2005 21:46:24 GMT, "Ches" <ches@lineone.net> wrote:

    >I bought a Mesh computer in April 2004 and my experience may be of interest
    >to those in the U.K. It worked 'straight out of the boxes' and I only (so
    >far) had to ring for advice once. The call was noted and an engineer rang
    >back in about 20 minutes and talked me through the problem, a slight
    >adjustment. Since then I have had a couple of somewhat OT queries. I have
    >sent these by e-mail and they have been responded to in a short time. I
    >would be happy both to recommend their products and to buy from them again.
    >I have nothing to do with the company other than as a customer.

    Hi Ches

    Mesh here too. Like yourself, my PC worked out of the box (literally,
    not management speak).

    My one complaint was that a speaker cable - the phono-plug device
    connecting the sound card to the sub-woofer - was missing and, IMO,
    that was Creative's fault and not Mesh's. Nevertheless, Mesh sent me a
    new cable which arrived within two days.

    One time, about 18 months ago, my house was zapped by lightning and my
    PC decied not to function. Mesh's customer support told me simply to
    remove the fax modem card ... et voila, a working PC. As my net
    connection is via an ethernet card to my TV's set top box the lack of
    a fax modem hardly hurt. Also, I had never used this device anyway.

    As I and others have implied in other posts, this sort of service
    would steer me towards Mesh come the day when I have the dosh to buy a
    new PC - all other things being equal, of course.

    Conversely, I have read in some NGs of horror stories regarding Mesh's
    products.

    Like you, Ches, I am merely a satisfied customer.
    James
  27. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
    news:4v2ge.1446$DC2.503@okepread01...
    > I got my Dell XPS and haven't had a bit of trouble (except an attempted
    > Office 97 install - not XP compatible - screwed things up so bad I had to
    > do a reformat/reinstall to finally get things right again about the second
    > week I had it) so haven't had the need to call them.

    Hi Crash

    We still use Office 97 at the office (our company database would need some
    development on it to bring it up to 2000) and I've never had trouble putting
    it on out XP (Professional) machines. Now you've got me worried!

    Chris
  28. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Chris Curtis wrote:
    > Hi Crash
    >
    > We still use Office 97 at the office (our company database would need
    > some development on it to bring it up to 2000) and I've never had
    > trouble putting it on out XP (Professional) machines. Now you've got
    > me worried!


    Office 97 is a strange one. I got the wife a budget $399 Gateway a few
    years back, XP home, and before I'd heard about the compatibility thing, I
    loaded 97 on it no problem! A few months later I got my XPS, with XP home,
    and the only thing I actually wanted from Office 97, was Word to have spell
    checker with Outlook Express. I ended up with all kinds of things botched
    up, including Outlook Express, and right now I can't even remember all the
    little things. I went to M/S site where they had a repair list of things to
    edit in the registry about a yard long to uninstall Office 97, so I wasn't a
    random case, plus a friend down in Texas (no, not Varmit) who's a runs the
    networking at a hospital told me they were warned against using it on XP...
    The M/S cleanup list did NOT cure all the problems, so I figured it was a
    good time to get rid of all Dell's bloatware and get things the way I wanted
    it............
  29. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Tue, 10 May 2005 04:04:38 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
    <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote:

    >I can't for the life of me figure out how some of these poor everyday people
    >manage to solve the issues that pop up with computers they buy.
    >I honestly don't know what to recommend to people anymore who ask me where
    >to go to buy.
    >Admittedly, ANY kind of phone tech support isn't the easiest thing in the
    >world to accomplish.

    Hi Dudley

    What bugs me is when telephone peeps simply go through a list. If my
    particular problem is not on their list, well, they're stumped.

    For example, I've occasionally phoned my ISP to ask if they're having
    mail server problems.

    Me: Are you having an e-mail server problem at the moment?
    Them: Do you use Outlook Express, Mr Hodson?
    Me: No, I use Eudora.
    Them: Sorry, Mr Hodson, we only support OE, not Eudora.
    I feel like saying: "So f'ing what!" Of course, I'm far too polite to
    say so.

    Ditto re FreeAgent and news-servers.

    Regards and about to self combust
    James
  30. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Tue, 10 May 2005 04:29:00 GMT, "Dallas"
    <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

    >Here's a place to go to entertain yourself for the next 30 minutes:
    >
    >http://www.gripe2ed.com/scoop/story/2003/6/12/10720/0194
    >
    >One common complaint I read is that "THEY HANG UP ON YOU...." I couldn't
    >believe it but it's common, when one of these guys from Bangalore or
    >Hyderabad does not like the direction the conversation is going they hang up
    >in your ear. :-)

    Hi Dalli (Lama?)

    Excellent. Actually, it really is a shame that those from India are
    receiving a bad press here. In general, Indians are more than pretty
    well educated, certainly better than UKians in general.

    Also, it seems to me, that many IT bods in the UK are originally from
    India - or, rather, their parents or grandparents were. British empire
    and all that.

    I have also heard, but can't truly state, that most Indian call centre
    operator people are also very well educated.

    Western companies use people from the sub-continent purely as a cost
    saving excercise.

    James
  31. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On 9 May 2005 11:14:00 -0700, "pr" <proffice@twcny.rr.com> wrote:

    >Isn't this version of English known as the "Queen's English?" I
    >never heard of the King's English... :)

    And thank goodness for that! Have you ever heard Prince Charles speak?

    James
  32. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com> wrote in message
    news:B69ge.1462$DC2.310@okepread01...
    > Chris Curtis wrote:
    >> Hi Crash
    >>
    >> We still use Office 97 at the office (our company database would need
    >> some development on it to bring it up to 2000) and I've never had
    >> trouble putting it on out XP (Professional) machines. Now you've got
    >> me worried!
    >
    >
    > Office 97 is a strange one. I got the wife a budget $399 Gateway a few
    > years back, XP home, and before I'd heard about the compatibility thing, I
    > loaded 97 on it no problem! A few months later I got my XPS, with XP
    > home, and the only thing I actually wanted from Office 97, was Word to
    > have spell checker with Outlook Express. I ended up with all kinds of
    > things botched up, including Outlook Express, and right now I can't even
    > remember all the little things. I went to M/S site where they had a
    > repair list of things to edit in the registry about a yard long to
    > uninstall Office 97, so I wasn't a random case, plus a friend down in
    > Texas (no, not Varmit) who's a runs the networking at a hospital told me
    > they were warned against using it on XP... The M/S cleanup list did NOT
    > cure all the problems, so I figured it was a good time to get rid of all
    > Dell's bloatware and get things the way I wanted it............

    No, not had a single problem! The only thing I can think that might be
    different is that we use Outlook 2000/2002 as an Exchange client and they
    are usually installed from the server before Office 97.

    Chris
  33. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    Have you ever tried ringing HSBC recently?

    It is just as bad :-)

    Mike


    "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    news:kRufe.10346$BE3.4840@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
    > please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
    >
    >
    >
    > My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
    > graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them
    > was
    > a pleasure.
    >
    >
    >
    > Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
    >
    >
    >
    > Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
    > trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to
    > the
    > conclusion that it was both.
    >
    >
    >
    > When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
    > confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
    > classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
    > them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were
    > trying
    > to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
    > don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems
    > like
    > my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
    >
    >
    >
    > Example:
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
    >
    >
    >
    > Long Pause.
    >
    >
    >
    > Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "No, Usenet. newsgroups. the news server."
    >
    >
    >
    > Very long Pause.
    >
    >
    >
    > Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
    >
    >
    >
    > Me: "Never mind."
    >
    >
    >
    > In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
    > don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
    > mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making
    > you
    > jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad
    > and
    > impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
    > fault.
    >
    >
    >
    > Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically,
    > good
    > for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope a
    > backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
    >
    >
    > Dallas
    >
    >
  34. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Sat, 14 May 2005 19:04:57 +0000 (UTC), "Mike"
    <mike@SPAMmichael-cracknell.coDOTuk> wrote:

    >Have you ever tried ringing HSBC recently?
    >
    >It is just as bad :-)

    Nope :-/ Llllllllllllllllllloyds TSB here. Incidentally, their call
    centre people also are mainly Welsh.

    James
  35. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    I had to phone Barclays to ask about a education maintaince loan and I could
    barely understand her, she spoke so fast as well. D-link are also like this
    and I tried using the phonetic alphabet like Delta-Echo etc since I do it
    with everything now as its saves confusion, he didn't know what I was
    talking about. I love blueyonder, their call centre must be in Liverpool or
    something, so easy to understand them, nice being able to talk to people
    where you don't struggle to understand or just agree because you cant be
    botherd to say "WTF" for the 50th time. I feel sorry for next gen people
    like my kids (when I have them lol) because with all these companies going
    of-shore, where are all the jobs going to be, I reckon even shelf stacking
    will be, like they put it on a conveyer belt and it just comes all the way
    from somewhere else

    --
    Do you want to join a freelance design team? Can you code or design? Want to
    join a team who is strict on Web standards complacency?
    Go to www.deadlyhosting.com to see what positions we have available.
    --

    "Mike" <mike@SPAMmichael-cracknell.coDOTuk> wrote in message
    news:d65i4p$clh$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
    > Have you ever tried ringing HSBC recently?
    >
    > It is just as bad :-)
    >
    > Mike
    >
    >
    > "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
    > news:kRufe.10346$BE3.4840@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >> (Politically correct disclaimer: If you think I am making a racial slur,
    >> please re-read and you will see that I am not.)
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> My ISP Earthlink used to have a team of young, intelligent, college
    >> graduates manning the customer support phone lines and dealing with them
    >> was
    >> a pleasure.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Then Earthlink outsourced offshore to India...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Now, I absolutely dread having to make that customer support call. I was
    >> trying to decide if the problem was cultural or incompetence and came to
    >> the
    >> conclusion that it was both.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> When I'm speaking to them I strive to use the King's English as to not
    >> confuse them. English is virtually their common language and they go to
    >> classes to further Anglicize their speech. So, why is it when I talk to
    >> them I get long pauses on the other end of the phone as if they were
    >> trying
    >> to somehow work out what I am saying? And often, when they answer me I
    >> don't get what they are saying either. For some reason it just seems
    >> like
    >> my brain can't connect to theirs, the wiring is different.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Example:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Me: "I can't connect to the Earthlink news server".
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Long Pause.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Jawaharlal: "News server? Do you mean email server?"
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Me: "No, Usenet. newsgroups. the news server."
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Very long Pause.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Jawaharlal: "Turn the power off and on again on your modem."
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Me: "Never mind."
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> In the days of domestic customer support there was no shame in saying, "I
    >> don't know. Let me find someone who knows." With offshore it somehow
    >> mortally shames them to not have all the answers and they wind up making
    >> you
    >> jump through an endless series of inane hoops. And somehow they get mad
    >> and
    >> impatient with you if their advice doesn't work, as if somehow it's your
    >> fault.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Corporations say that it decreases their operating costs dramatically,
    >> good
    >> for them! I didn't see my monthly bill go down when they did it. I hope
    >> a
    >> backlash is coming for all these companies that moved offshore.
    >>
    >>
    >> Dallas
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  36. Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

    On Mon, 16 May 2005 09:58:30 GMT, "Chris Harries"
    <chrisflyer@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    >I had to phone Barclays to ask about a education maintaince loan and I could
    >barely understand her, she spoke so fast as well. D-link are also like this
    >and I tried using the phonetic alphabet like Delta-Echo etc since I do it
    >with everything now as its saves confusion, he didn't know what I was
    >talking about. I love blueyonder, their call centre must be in Liverpool or
    >something, so easy to understand them, nice being able to talk to people
    >where you don't struggle to understand or just agree because you cant be
    >botherd to say "WTF" for the 50th time.

    Hi Chris

    Scouse-speak is no problem for me as I once lived quite near to
    Liverpool. More precisely, I lived in Ainsdale, a place between Liv
    and Southport.

    I was in my local Barclays' bank a while ago - I was combining a cycle
    ride with paying off a bit of the old credit card. As usual, the
    teller asked my for my post code just in case I happened to be a major
    money launderer.

    "Bravo, November, 1, 4 ... 9, Papa, Sierra," I stated.

    It turned out that that lady's hubby flies Cessnas from Shoreham
    Airport (EGKA), the strip where I base my own simulated Cessna 172.
    When studying for his PPL, he used his wife to test him on his
    phonetic alphabet. Naturally, she picked it up at the same time.

    Barclays was a tad quiet to she and I spent a few moments testing each
    other on our phonetic alphabet knowledge. My FSing probably gave me
    the advantage :-)

    Personally, I learnt all that stuff from my days using a dictaphone
    Missus!). The typists at the life assurance company I used to work for
    in Guildford insisted on everybody, but everybody, using phonetics
    when dictating letters ... not that our doing so prevented them making
    some horrendous typos.

    Cheers
    James
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