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Wow as Real as it gets is Right

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 11, 2005 8:09:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I flew my Cesna near the white house today and drifted a bit off course, and
really created a panic. had flares shot at me from f-16's and everything.

i had no idea my flight simulator would do so much damage.

teehee,

okay a bit of humor for the day.

More about : wow real

May 11, 2005 11:22:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

You could 'tee-hee' yourself into oblivion, Bill. I hear those F-16 jockeys
are somewhat humourless : )

Arthur

"Bill Horvat" <me@me.com> wrote in message
news:1184t3ti4eps1ed@corp.supernews.com...
>I flew my Cesna near the white house today and drifted a bit off course,
>and really created a panic. had flares shot at me from f-16's and
>everything.
>
> i had no idea my flight simulator would do so much damage.
>
> teehee,
>
> okay a bit of humor for the day.
>
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 12:33:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Arthur,
I think its only a matter of time before some low-time private pilot
wanders unknowingly into a restricted area, or a TFR, and winds up in a ball
of flame. The worst are the TFR's though. They are "Temporary Flight
Restrictions" and can pop up without many pilots being aware of them. Some
really are temporary, and some have been in effect ever since 9/11. A
private pilot must now really be on top of the TFR situation for the areas
that they intend to fly in, ESPECIALLY on the eastern seaboard where there
is a lot of restricted airspace. The worst (IMHO) is the TFR around Air
Force One. There is a 60 nm "no fly zone" around AF1 where ever it may be at
the time. The problem is that for security reasons, the White House does not
release the itinerary or specific flight route of AF1. The FAA simply issues
a TFR that says something like "From 0800Z to 1330Z, aircraft are forbidden
to fly within 60 nm of:" then they list a series of latitudes and
longitudes. Someday some student-pilot is going to accidentally wander too
close to one of those co-ordinates, not be really sharp on their radio
procedures, and wind up being shot down. Such is life in the 21st century.

Randy L.

"Arthur" <alspectorz@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:uY-dnYCmX68EDh_fRVn-gw@rogers.com...
> You could 'tee-hee' yourself into oblivion, Bill. I hear those F-16
> jockeys are somewhat humourless : )
>
> Arthur
>
> "Bill Horvat" <me@me.com> wrote in message
> news:1184t3ti4eps1ed@corp.supernews.com...
>>I flew my Cesna near the white house today and drifted a bit off course,
>>and really created a panic. had flares shot at me from f-16's and
>>everything.
>>
>> i had no idea my flight simulator would do so much damage.
>>
>> teehee,
>>
>> okay a bit of humor for the day.
>>
>
>
Related resources
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 5:57:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hello from KOXR land,

I'm going to fly FS9, out of curiosity, from Q08, Smoketown, Pa to KLBT,
Lumberton Municipal Airport, North Carolina (which I believe was the
destination), in a Cessna 182. I set up for a GPS flight at 4,000 ft.. The
flight path goes close to Andrews AFB, about 2 nm west. I understand that
there is a no fly zone five nm around downtown D.C.. The Sim gives me a
flight time of 3 hours and twenty minutes. CNN said that the two guys aboard
were on there way to an Airshow at KLBT. Clearly the flight should have gone
around the exclusion zone.

DE PAT AKA AG6Z QTH KOXR 73 AR
May 12, 2005 10:46:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Bob Cordone"
> He was within 3 miles which is like being on short final, almost.

3 miles is a total failure for the Air Defense system around the Capital.
If that Cessna 150 had been carrying a briefcase nuke with an Al Qaeda
nutcase at the controls, good bye Washington.

Dallas
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 10:46:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:2ZCge.6558$Dh.6300@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Bob Cordone"
>> He was within 3 miles which is like being on short final, almost.
>
> 3 miles is a total failure for the Air Defense system around the Capital.
> If that Cessna 150 had been carrying a briefcase nuke with an Al Qaeda
> nutcase at the controls, good bye Washington.
>
> Dallas
>
>

There is no "Air Defense" system around Washington DC. DC is not Hanoi.
There are not multiple SAM launchers ringing the city.

There is an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) for which there are
specific procedures in place which need to be followed if you want to fly in
or through.

Two adults in a C150 with full fuel (which you need to get from PA to NC...)
leaves virtually nothing in terms of useful load. What load is available
would not allow for a device large enough to obliterate Washington DC.

We don't know all the details yet so please stop jumping to conclusions. At
the very worst, it was two pilots who were woefully underequipped for this
flight. And for heaven's sake stop buying into the bullshit hyperbole that
passes for news these days.

<rant off>

Jay B
May 12, 2005 11:56:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Jay Beckman wrote:

>
> Two adults in a C150 with full fuel (which you need to get from PA to NC...)
> leaves virtually nothing in terms of useful load. What load is available
> would not allow for a device large enough to obliterate Washington DC.
>
> We don't know all the details yet so please stop jumping to conclusions. At
> the very worst, it was two pilots who were woefully underequipped for this
> flight. And for heaven's sake stop buying into the bullshit hyperbole that
> passes for news these days.
>
> <rant off>
>
> Jay B
>
>

If we didn't jump to conclusions, what would we talk about?

And what bullshit hyperbole?
--

boB,
Master_Caution_70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 12:07:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

And just to add to that, imagine the media coverage if they would have shot
down the aircraft, wow then it would be turned around as "too qick to pull
the trigger"


"Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote in message
news:HnDge.12365$Fa1.3586@fed1read02...
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
> news:2ZCge.6558$Dh.6300@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>> "Bob Cordone"
>>> He was within 3 miles which is like being on short final, almost.
>>
>> 3 miles is a total failure for the Air Defense system around the Capital.
>> If that Cessna 150 had been carrying a briefcase nuke with an Al Qaeda
>> nutcase at the controls, good bye Washington.
>>
>> Dallas
>>
>>
>
> There is no "Air Defense" system around Washington DC. DC is not Hanoi.
> There are not multiple SAM launchers ringing the city.
>
> There is an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) for which there are
> specific procedures in place which need to be followed if you want to fly
> in or through.
>
> Two adults in a C150 with full fuel (which you need to get from PA to
> NC...) leaves virtually nothing in terms of useful load. What load is
> available would not allow for a device large enough to obliterate
> Washington DC.
>
> We don't know all the details yet so please stop jumping to conclusions.
> At the very worst, it was two pilots who were woefully underequipped for
> this flight. And for heaven's sake stop buying into the bullshit
> hyperbole that passes for news these days.
>
> <rant off>
>
> Jay B
>
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 12:15:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:

> If that Cessna 150 had been carrying a briefcase nuke with an Al
Qaeda
> nutcase at the controls, good bye Washington.

Man, I thought you were smarter than that! Please don't believe the
hype that a small GA aircraft could do anything even remotely close.

The US public should be much more worried about a delivery truck, fuel
truck, hearse, or even an SUV. It would be *so* much easier for
someone intent on doing harm to a city to deliver a bomb in one of
these vehicles than an aircraft that can't even seat two people and
full fuel without going over weight and balance. Why aren't the
lemmings all screaming for a "no-drive" zone around DC?

Sheesh...

--
Peter
Between Hollywood and the news media, common sense doesn't have a
chance of winning out.
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 12:20:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Aren't briefcase nukes that can blow up DC ..... stuff movies are made of
.......



"Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net> wrote in message
news:HnDge.12365$Fa1.3586@fed1read02...
> "Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
> news:2ZCge.6558$Dh.6300@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Bob Cordone"
> >> He was within 3 miles which is like being on short final, almost.
> >
> > 3 miles is a total failure for the Air Defense system around the
Capital.
> > If that Cessna 150 had been carrying a briefcase nuke with an Al Qaeda
> > nutcase at the controls, good bye Washington.
> >
> > Dallas
> >
> >
>
> There is no "Air Defense" system around Washington DC. DC is not Hanoi.
> There are not multiple SAM launchers ringing the city.
>
> There is an Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) for which there are
> specific procedures in place which need to be followed if you want to fly
in
> or through.
>
> Two adults in a C150 with full fuel (which you need to get from PA to
NC...)
> leaves virtually nothing in terms of useful load. What load is available
> would not allow for a device large enough to obliterate Washington DC.
>
> We don't know all the details yet so please stop jumping to conclusions.
At
> the very worst, it was two pilots who were woefully underequipped for this
> flight. And for heaven's sake stop buying into the bullshit hyperbole
that
> passes for news these days.
>
> <rant off>
>
> Jay B
>
>
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 1:35:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:

> Excuse me.. ?

Why, did you fart when you were typing that?

You missed the point of my post entirely. A C150 cannot carry a
nuclear device built by terrorists, which is what you tried to imply
with your previous post. Well, perhaps one could, if one drained out
all the fuel and used a 25 lb pilot to fly the aircraft. Of course, an
aircraft without fuel nothing but a paperweight and a 25 lb pilot would
still wearing diapers and eating strained food out of jars.

There's fantasy, and then there's reality. Sadly, most
"Bubba-sixpack," middle-America US citizens believe the fantasy and
pure hype that small, GA aircraft can cause great harm to their safety,
disregarding the more obvious destructive delivery methods stuck in
traffic with them every day.

Perhaps you ought to start a new thread about weight and balance. This
might give you an understanding of the real limitations of smaller GA
aircraft.

--
Peter
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 1:48:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 12 May 2005 06:46:22 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>
>"Bob Cordone"
>> He was within 3 miles which is like being on short final, almost.
>
>3 miles is a total failure for the Air Defense system around the Capital.
>If that Cessna 150 had been carrying a briefcase nuke with an Al Qaeda
>nutcase at the controls, good bye Washington.
>
>Dallas
>


How about an SUV, driving within 1 mile, loaded with nukes?
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 1:48:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

actually ... you can drive within 100's of feet in your SUV


"Bob Cordone" <nospam@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ei96815m7nmm97q58fe80a0p42jjrhcnhg@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 12 May 2005 06:46:22 GMT, "Dallas"
> <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Bob Cordone"
> >> He was within 3 miles which is like being on short final, almost.
> >
> >3 miles is a total failure for the Air Defense system around the Capital.
> >If that Cessna 150 had been carrying a briefcase nuke with an Al Qaeda
> >nutcase at the controls, good bye Washington.
> >
> >Dallas
> >
>
>
> How about an SUV, driving within 1 mile, loaded with nukes?
>
>
May 12, 2005 2:57:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 12 May 2005 00:14:50 -0700, "Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net>
brought the following to our attention:

>And for heaven's sake stop buying into the bullshit hyperbole that
>passes for news these days.

Well stated.. it's really not to inform.. but to mold public opinion.
i.e. mind control for the masses (and the marketing of pills.)
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 4:16:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Bill Horvat" <me@me.com> wrote in message
news:1184t3ti4eps1ed@corp.supernews.com...
> I flew my Cesna near the white house today and drifted a bit off course,
and
> really created a panic. had flares shot at me from f-16's and everything.
>
> i had no idea my flight simulator would do so much damage.
>
> teehee,
>
> okay a bit of humor for the day.

This whole thing is hilarious. Run America, run! Everybody is out to get
you! Great entertainment, better than anything I've ever read in a book or
seen on TV.

Mike
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 4:16:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

The only true statement in this thread .... everyone is out to get Americans
..... some overtly and some covertly


"Micheal Smith" <smoyz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hOHge.106122$3V3.74561@edtnps89...
> "Bill Horvat" <me@me.com> wrote in message
> news:1184t3ti4eps1ed@corp.supernews.com...
> > I flew my Cesna near the white house today and drifted a bit off course,
> and
> > really created a panic. had flares shot at me from f-16's and
everything.
> >
> > i had no idea my flight simulator would do so much damage.
> >
> > teehee,
> >
> > okay a bit of humor for the day.
>
> This whole thing is hilarious. Run America, run! Everybody is out to get
> you! Great entertainment, better than anything I've ever read in a book
or
> seen on TV.
>
> Mike
>
>
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 7:58:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 12 May 2005 12:16:13 GMT, "Micheal Smith" <smoyz@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>This whole thing is hilarious. Run America, run! Everybody is out to get
>you! Great entertainment, better than anything I've ever read in a book or
>seen on TV.

Hi Mike

I certainly don't wish to make light of this but I had to have a bit
of a giggle to myself when I saw an animation of the event on either
BBC News 24 or Sky News (can't recall which).

The Cessna was being trailed by the two F-16s, all three were in
perfect formation.

Now, I do stand by to be corrected if I'm wrong, but I do have this
idea that an F-16's minimum, straight and level speed is somewhat
faster than the straight and level cruising speed of the Cessna shown
in the graphic.

James
May 12, 2005 8:02:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Jay Beckman"
> There is no "Air Defense" system around Washington DC. DC is not Hanoi.
> There are not multiple SAM launchers ringing the city.

I guess you missed the photos of the guys on the roof of the White House
with shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles.

Dallas
May 12, 2005 8:17:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"pr"
> Man, I thought you were smarter than that!
> The US public should be much more worried about a delivery truck, fuel
> truck, hearse, or even an SUV.

Excuse me.. ? An airburst thermonuclear device is infinitely more
effective than a groundburst device if the object is to destroy a large
radius of ground structures. Someone planning such an attack would know
that and would likely deploy the device by aircraft.

Dallas
May 12, 2005 9:11:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Micheal Smith"
> This whole thing is hilarious. Run America, run! Everybody is out to get
> you! Great entertainment, better than anything I've ever read in a book
or
> seen on TV.

If three thousand of your citizens were killed in a terrorist attack you
might better understand.

Dallas
May 12, 2005 9:11:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:
> If three thousand of your citizens were killed in a terrorist attack
> you might better understand.
>


Not to mention a few hundred thousand directly affected by the losses, or
the several Trillion dollar drag on the economy...........
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 10:48:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On 12 May 2005 09:35:17 -0700, "pr" <proffice@twcny.rr.com> wrote:

>There's fantasy, and then there's reality. Sadly, most
>"Bubba-sixpack," middle-America US citizens believe the fantasy and
>pure hype that small, GA aircraft can cause great harm to their safety,
>disregarding the more obvious destructive delivery methods stuck in
>traffic with them every day.

Hi Peter

Not an overtly political comment but for some reason the following
just sprang into my somewhat weird and distorted mind:

Alice Cooper, Elected

I'm your top prime cut of meat, I'm your choice,
I wanna be elected,
I'm your yankee doodle dandy in a gold Rolls Royce,
I wanna be elected,
Kids want a savior, don't need a fake,
I wanna be elected,
We're all gonna rock to the rules that I make,
I wanna be elected, elected, elected.

I never lied to you, I've always been cool,
I wanna be elected,
I gotta get the vote, and I told you 'bout school,
I wanna be elected, elected, elected,
Hallelujah, I wanna be selected,
Everyone in the United States of America.

We're gonna win this one, take the country by storm,
We're gonna be elected,
You and me together, young and strong,
We're gonna be elected, elected, elected,
Respected, selected, call collected,
I wanna be elected, elected.

"And if I am elected
I promise the formation of a new party
A third party, the Wild Party!
I know we have problems,
We got problems right here in Central City,
We have problems on the North, South, East and West,
New York City, Saint Louis, Philadelphia, Los Angeles,
Detroit, Chicago,
Everybody has problems,
And personally, I don't care."

Cheers
James
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 10:57:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 12 May 2005 17:11:22 GMT, "Dallas"
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

>If three thousand of your citizens were killed in a terrorist attack you
>might better understand.

Hi Dalli

Very true, albeit perhaps a little unfair to Michael. Some UKers sadly
also failed to survive the attack on Sept 11, 2001.

The Brit sense of humour can, and most probably does, come across to
others as being insensitive at times. Quite a few disasters receive
their share of jokes within a few days. The one subject about which I
have never heard a single "funny" is 9,11. That particular event was
too awful for almost all the world both to comprehend and to make
light of.

James
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 12, 2005 11:14:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 12 May 2005 14:04:28 -0500, "CRaSH" <sorry@aint-here.spam.com>
wrote:

>Dallas wrote:
>> If three thousand of your citizens were killed in a terrorist attack
>> you might better understand.
>>
>
>Not to mention a few hundred thousand directly affected by the losses, or
>the several Trillion dollar drag on the economy......

Hi Crash

I was awake for about three days solid watching the 9,11 tragedy and
what happened immediately afterwards. Financially, the big fear was
that the US economy would go into free fall.

As far as I recall, the Wall Street Index did drop below 9K for a
while (9K was a figure most often mentioned) but it did bounce back
quite quickly.

Of course, Wall Street is not the be all and end all of finance but,
as the name Index suggests, it is a good pointer.

Please correct me if necessary.

James
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 1:12:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> If three thousand of your citizens were killed in a terrorist attack
> you might better understand.
>
> Dallas

I do not wish to score points but to shed some light on something that folk
in the USA seem not to understand. In the UK over the last thirty years we
have lost considerably more than 3000 citizens on all sides to terrorist
bombings and shooting in Ireland. We have borne this with great fortitude in
my opinion, not always helped by some misguided Americans giving money and
arms to the IRA.
Please don't misunderstand me. I fully support America, but in this area, I
have always been hurt and puzzled by the support of Irish terrorism which I
saw in the media during three past visits to the States.

--
Cheers,

Quilly











An individual reply goes into my spam filter
May 13, 2005 3:01:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"pr"
> Perhaps you ought to start a new thread about weight and balance. This
> might give you an understanding of the real limitations of smaller GA
> aircraft.


I can do weight and balance: A Cessna 150 with a 180 lb pilot and half full
tanks can still carry 228.9 more pounds. A brief case nuke is 24 inches by
16 inches by 8 inches with a weight of less than sixty pounds with a yield
of 1 kiloton.

Back to the real world, a 1 kiloton yield briefcase nuke's fireball radius
is relatively small and would produce catastrophic damage in a small area
only. This would require the pilot to detonate the device about 100 feet
directly above the intended target. Bottom line, it would not be a very
effective weapon or delivery system and that is probably why the 2 pilots
are still alive today.

Now, a King Air would have no trouble carrying a 1 megaton yield device
measuring 2 feet by 1.5 feet with a weight of 320 pounds. This device could
turn a three mile radius of Washington into a self-lighting, glass floored
parking lot.

My problem is that a King Air and a Cessna 150 look pretty much the same on
the radar screen and they let this aircraft get within 3 miles of the
Capitol Building before they could deal with it effectively.

Not good.


Dallas
May 13, 2005 3:23:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

pr wrote:

> Dallas wrote:
>
>
>>Excuse me.. ?
>
>
> Why, did you fart when you were typing that?
>
> You missed the point of my post entirely. A C150 cannot carry a
> nuclear device built by terrorists, which is what you tried to imply
> with your previous post. Well, perhaps one could, if one drained out
> all the fuel and used a 25 lb pilot to fly the aircraft. Of course, an
> aircraft without fuel nothing but a paperweight and a 25 lb pilot would
> still wearing diapers and eating strained food out of jars.
>
> There's fantasy, and then there's reality. Sadly, most
> "Bubba-sixpack," middle-America US citizens believe the fantasy and
> pure hype that small, GA aircraft can cause great harm to their safety,
> disregarding the more obvious destructive delivery methods stuck in
> traffic with them every day.
>
> Perhaps you ought to start a new thread about weight and balance. This
> might give you an understanding of the real limitations of smaller GA
> aircraft.
>

Nah!!! Don't believe it! Just ask Chicago's Mayor. The threat from
Meigs was so great had had no choice than to bull-doze the runway. I'm
sure that saved many lives.

--

boB,
Master_Caution_70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
































If you didn't know this was a joke, you need to get out more, really...
May 13, 2005 5:13:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Arthur"
> (How's that for support, Dallas)??

Why thanks Arthur, even though my wife would probably agree with Peter.

We just hit a private pilot nerve here with this terrorist stuff and general
aviation aircraft. 9-11 sent a chill up general aviation's back as both
sides argue as to what sort of government regulation is necessary to prevent
an attack using GA aircraft. I'd say the dirty little secret here is that
very little can be done, it's like trying to stop car bombs in Iraq or
suicide bombers on buses in Israel.


Dallas
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 5:24:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Jay Beckman wrote:
> And for heaven's sake stop buying into the bullshit hyperbole that
> passes for news these days.

Could you tell me what bullshit hyperbole (aside from the commentary on
Fox) you heard about this incident? I'm curious; I'm compiling a list.

Thanks.



John

--
To reply, remove "die.spammers" from address


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 5:27:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Bob Cordone wrote:

> How about an SUV, driving within 1 mile, loaded with nukes?

Not a concern currently. No terrorist could afford the gas. ;-)



John

--
To reply, remove "die.spammers" from address


Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
May 13, 2005 5:27:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

You kidding?? They get it at factory cost!

Arthur

"The Lindbergh Baby" <johngrabowski1@die.spammersearthlink.net> wrote in
message news:4284028B.7030309@die.spammersearthlink.net...
> Bob Cordone wrote:
>
>> How about an SUV, driving within 1 mile, loaded with nukes?
>
> Not a concern currently. No terrorist could afford the gas. ;-)
>
>
>
> John
>
> --
> To reply, remove "die.spammers" from address
>
>
> Von Herzen, moge es wieder zu Herzen gehen. --Beethoven
>
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 5:30:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

pr wrote:
> Dallas wrote:
>
>
>>If that Cessna 150 had been carrying a briefcase nuke with an Al
>
> Qaeda
>
>>nutcase at the controls, good bye Washington.
>
>
> Man, I thought you were smarter than that! Please don't believe the
> hype that a small GA aircraft could do anything even remotely close.
>
> The US public should be much more worried about a delivery truck, fuel
> truck, hearse, or even an SUV. It would be *so* much easier for
> someone intent on doing harm to a city to deliver a bomb in one of
> these vehicles than an aircraft that can't even seat two people and
> full fuel without going over weight and balance.

Why must there be two people in the Cessna?

I''m sure prior to 9-11, security experts would have said "Man, I
thought you were smarter than that! Please don't believe the hype that
four box cutters could be used to take over four airplanes and bring
down THE WORLD TRADE CENTER!!! What media-inspired hype!"



John

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 5:31:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

boB wrote:

> Nah!!! Don't believe it! Just ask Chicago's Mayor. The threat from
> Meigs was so great had had no choice than to bull-doze the runway. I'm
> sure that saved many lives.
>

EXCELLENT point. :-)



John

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Anonymous
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May 13, 2005 5:32:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:
> 9-11 sent a chill up general aviation's back as both
> sides argue as to what sort of government regulation is necessary to prevent
> an attack using GA aircraft. I'd say the dirty little secret here is that
> very little can be done, it's like trying to stop car bombs in Iraq or
> suicide bombers on buses in Israel.
>
>
> Dallas
>

Spot on, Dallas, (unfortunately).



John

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Anonymous
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May 13, 2005 5:39:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas wrote:
> "Micheal Smith"
>
>>This whole thing is hilarious. Run America, run! Everybody is out to get
>>you! Great entertainment, better than anything I've ever read in a book
>
> or
>
>>seen on TV.
>
>
> If three thousand of your citizens were killed in a terrorist attack you
> might better understand.

Far more than 3,000 citizens of other countries have been killed in
U.S-led or sponsored terror attacks over the years, yet *we* still don't
understand.

Not trying to start a pissing contest; just some food for thought.
Other parts of the world have "understood" a lot better than the U.S.,
and for much longer.



John

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Anonymous
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May 13, 2005 5:44:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

CRaSH wrote:
> Dallas wrote:
>
>>If three thousand of your citizens were killed in a terrorist attack
>>you might better understand.
>>
>
>
>
> Not to mention a few hundred thousand directly affected by the losses, or
> the several Trillion dollar drag on the economy...........
>

Well, we'd better bone up, because it will happen again, albeit probably
in a different form. Most of the measures of the Department of Honeland
Security are a cosmetic joke, for PR more than security, and those who
say "It's been three years without another attack so we must be
thwarting terrorism" don't understand the timeframe in which the
terrorists operate. Before 9-11 it was eight years prior that any
similar attack happened by Islamic Fundamentalists on the continental
U.S. They wait.



John

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Anonymous
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May 13, 2005 5:46:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Quilljar wrote:
>>If three thousand of your citizens were killed in a terrorist attack
>>you might better understand.
>>
>>Dallas
>
>
> I do not wish to score points but to shed some light on something that folk
> in the USA seem not to understand. In the UK over the last thirty years we
> have lost considerably more than 3000 citizens on all sides to terrorist
> bombings and shooting in Ireland. We have borne this with great fortitude in
> my opinion, not always helped by some misguided Americans giving money and
> arms to the IRA.
> Please don't misunderstand me. I fully support America, but in this area, I
> have always been hurt and puzzled by the support of Irish terrorism which I
> saw in the media during three past visits to the States.
>

Well well well said.



John

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May 13, 2005 6:01:03 AM

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The Lindbergh Baby wrote:

> Jay Beckman wrote:
>
>> And for heaven's sake stop buying into the bullshit hyperbole that
>> passes for news these days.
>
>
> Could you tell me what bullshit hyperbole (aside from the commentary on
> Fox) you heard about this incident? I'm curious; I'm compiling a list.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> John
>

Hi John,

I believe that was just a general, all inclusive, slam at the US.

--

boB,
Master_Caution_70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
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May 13, 2005 8:34:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

> My problem is that a King Air and a Cessna 150 look pretty much the same on
> the radar screen and they let this aircraft get within 3 miles of the
> Capitol Building before they could deal with it effectively.

A King Air would show up on radar with a *much* faster groundspeed when
compared to a C150. Think about it.

--
Peter


















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Anonymous
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May 13, 2005 8:47:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

> 9-11 sent a chill up general aviation's back as both
> sides argue as to what sort of government regulation
> is necessary to prevent
> an attack using GA aircraft.

9/11 didn't occur with GA aircraft, a fact that the non-flying public seems
to conveniently forget when the national media continually hypes the
dreaded "GA threat."

> I'd say the dirty little secret here is that
> very little can be done,

A lot is being done in the GA community to prevent an attack with a GA
aircraft so capable. The problem with the majority on the outside is that
you only have the media hype to believe, rather than reality.

I suggest visiting the AOPA website and read up on the Airport Watch
program currently in place:

http://www.aopa.org/asn/watchindex.shtml

About 6 months ago a television network wanted to test security at a
typical GA airport, so they sent two Arabic men to rent a helicopter to
sightsee over some city. The men were told to be persistent. The person
on the receiving end of this request was unaware that this was a media
setup.

This man became suspicious at the circumstances surrounding this contract
and declined the work. He then contacted authorities.

Remember that incident? Probably not, because it was a story with a
successful ending, something the news media doesn't run on the front page
or open with on TV.

The real dirty, little secret that non-pilots don't realize is that a much
more effective attack can be carried out with ground-based vehicles.

Why aren't you crying for more regulation over truck rentals or SUVs?
After all, before 9/11 the US had Oklahoma City as the largest terrorist
attack on US soil, an attack successfully carried out with a Ryder Truck.

--
Peter


















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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 8:56:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

The Lindbergh Baby <johngrabowski1@die.spammersearthlink.net> wrote:

> Why must there be two people in the Cessna?

A C150, C172, and even a C182 cannot carry the weight of a terrorist-built
nuclear weapon whether it is piloted by one person, two people, or a remote
control servo that weighs less than a handkerchief.

You are giving any terrorist cell way too much credit on their nuclear bomb
making talents to think that they have 75 lb nuclear bombs.

But, if you want to believe this, I suggest you go out and build yourself a
lead-lined bomb shelter.

> I''m sure prior to 9-11, security experts would have said "Man, I
> thought you were smarter than that! Please don't believe the hype that
> four box cutters could be used to take over four airplanes and bring
> down THE WORLD TRADE CENTER!!! What media-inspired hype!"

Yawn... you apparently weren't following the many stories about several
individuals within the FBI actually suspecting the attack before it
occurred. There are documented cases of FBI agents writing up scenarios
where terrorists use commercial airliners as cruise missiles, based on the
actual activities of suspicious individuals.

But, then again perhaps I am suspecting too much from someone who chooses a
murdered baby and the memory of a very devastating loss to an important
aviation figure as a Usenet moniker.



--
Peter


















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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 9:01:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

The_Rock <sweetvee1@hotmail.com> wrote:

> don't you know that in America ... terrorism didn't exist until 911 .....

Two words: Oklahoma City.

Or, what about the first attack against the World Trade Center in 1993?

Are you really so young as to be unaware of these two very real terrorist
acts that occurred a mere 10 to 12 years ago?



--
Peter


















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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 9:03:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

pr <nope@nospam.com> wrote:

> perhaps I am suspecting

Uh... that should be "expecting" not "suspecting."

Despite the lame grammatical mistake the point still stands.

--
Peter


















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Anonymous
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May 13, 2005 11:03:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

not much faster .... the king air can fly at low speeds .. ya know


"pr" <nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1n9pcqkb6n46i.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Dallas <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:
>
> > My problem is that a King Air and a Cessna 150 look pretty much the same
on
> > the radar screen and they let this aircraft get within 3 miles of the
> > Capitol Building before they could deal with it effectively.
>
> A King Air would show up on radar with a *much* faster groundspeed when
> compared to a C150. Think about it.
>
> --
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+
Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption
=----
Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 13, 2005 11:20:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

The_Rock <sweetvee1@hotmail.com> wrote:

> not much faster .... the king air can fly at low speeds .. ya know

<plonk>

No time for trolls.

--
Peter


















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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 14, 2005 3:17:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

pr wrote:
> The_Rock <sweetvee1@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>don't you know that in America ... terrorism didn't exist until 911 .....
>
>
> Two words: Oklahoma City.
>
> Or, what about the first attack against the World Trade Center in 1993?
>
> Are you really so young as to be unaware of these two very real terrorist
> acts that occurred a mere 10 to 12 years ago?
>
>
>

Let me rephase that:

<sarcasm mode on>:

don't you know that in America ... terrorism didn't exist until 911 .....

<sarcasm mode off>

There, that better?



John

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 14, 2005 3:17:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

The Lindbergh Baby <johngrabowski1@die.spammersearthlink.net> wrote:

> There, that better?

Yes.

--
Peter


















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Anonymous
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May 14, 2005 3:20:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

pr wrote:
> The Lindbergh Baby <johngrabowski1@die.spammersearthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Why must there be two people in the Cessna?
>
>
> A C150, C172, and even a C182 cannot carry the weight of a terrorist-built
> nuclear weapon whether it is piloted by one person, two people, or a remote
> control servo that weighs less than a handkerchief.
>
> You are giving any terrorist cell way too much credit on their nuclear bomb
> making talents to think that they have 75 lb nuclear bombs.
>
> But, if you want to believe this, I suggest you go out and build yourself a
> lead-lined bomb shelter.

I'm not the bomb-shleter type. I don't even have any duct tape and
saran wrap.

>>I''m sure prior to 9-11, security experts would have said "Man, I
>>thought you were smarter than that! Please don't believe the hype that
>>four box cutters could be used to take over four airplanes and bring
>>down THE WORLD TRADE CENTER!!! What media-inspired hype!"
>
>
> Yawn... you apparently weren't following the many stories about several
> individuals within the FBI actually suspecting the attack before it
> occurred. There are documented cases of FBI agents writing up scenarios
> where terrorists use commercial airliners as cruise missiles, based on the
> actual activities of suspicious individuals.

Yup, just like there are some people now who evidentally believe the
Cessna is a threat, while the masses like yourself don't believe it
could be. Same situation, with you just on a different side of it.

>
> But, then again perhaps I am suspecting too much from someone who chooses a
> murdered baby and the memory of a very devastating loss to an important
> aviation figure as a Usenet moniker.

Blame The Simpsons for that. The joke comes from them.

I am looking for a new moniker, though. Tired of the old one. Any
suggestions? Make that, any *printable* suggestions?




John

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Anonymous
a b Ý World of Warcraft
May 14, 2005 3:20:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

The Lindbergh Baby <johngrabowski1@die.spammersearthlink.net> wrote:

> Yup, just like there are some people now who evidentally believe the
> Cessna is a threat, while the masses like yourself don't believe it
> could be. Same situation, with you just on a different side of it.

Um, you have that backwards. I think that the masses believe a single
engine Cessna/Piper/Beech is a threat. I would wager that only a fraction
of the population believe that they are not a threat because only a
fraction are involved in and/or knowledgeable of aviation.

> Blame The Simpsons for that. The joke comes from them.

I would be interested in hearing the entire joke, because in this context
it doesn't really work. IMO, of course.

> I am looking for a new moniker, though. Tired of the old one. Any
> suggestions? Make that, any *printable* suggestions?

Something aviation related. I am about to do the same.

--
Peter


















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Anonymous
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May 14, 2005 6:06:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:_6Mge.5700$r7.572@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> If three thousand of your citizens were killed in a terrorist attack you
> might better understand.
>
> Dallas
Sadly, it is you and yours who don't seem to understand. You reap what you
sow.

Mike
!