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AMD64 3700+ with 2x 7800GT, why doesn´t it eat the graphics?

Forum CPU & Components : CPUs - AMD64 3700+ with 2x 7800GT, why doesn´t it eat the graphics?

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Is 2x GeForce 7800GT in SLI better than one 7800GTX?

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The same

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I have:
Asus A8N-Sli Premium (the newest with cool-pipe) (Bios Rev. 1009)
AMD64 3700+, 2,2GHz, 1024Kb cache, San Diego
2x Corsair TWINX1024-4400C25 DDR550 512Mb (400MHz @ 2-2-2-5-7-9-1-2-1T @ Auto-voltage)
2x Leadtek GeForce 7800GT 256Mb in SLi (Overclocked to 475/1150MHz)
Maxtor DiamondPlus10 250Gb, 16Mb cache, (This one is for all my apps, games and Windows) [SATA2]
Do.not.know.brand 250Gb [ATA133]
Seagate 160Gb [USB2.0]
Lacie Porsche 250Gb [USB2.0]
Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Elite Pro with Logitech Z-680 5.1 (1010Watts)
Do.not.know.brand DVD-play/burn
Hiper Type-R 580W with support for everything
Antec P-180 (the newest)

Screen: Samsung SyncMaster 192v, 8ms
Mouse: Logitech MX-1000
Keyboard: Logtech MX-3100

[3DMark05: 10 800p]

---------------------------------------------------------

If I play Battlefield 2 with the newest patch, then I cannot run the game at maximum settings, because it laggs like if the cpu cannot handle the game.
Why can´t I run all games at the highest settings? I thought my system could handle it, thats why I bought it...
Any solution to this?

I am wondering if the cpu ain´t good enough, because my old P4 530 3,0GHz clocked to 3,82GHz could handle almost the same settings in Battlefield 2 and that was with a Geforce FX 5950 Ultra 256Mb (from 2003)... Or have I got some wrong settings somewhere?

My second question is why I cannot overclock my computer? I can change all settings and that is a lot with the A8N-Sli Premium, but if I pull the FSB over 210MHz, then my SATA2 harddrive stops working. Is there any solution to this problem?
My memory can hanlde speeds up to 275MHz (DDR550) without any problems as long as I run it at 2.75v...

Add a reply

I thinks its your memory , Battle Field 2 NEEDS at least 2Gb of memory too run smooth and with out ant lag !!
upgrade your system to 2Gb DDR and you will be able to play BF2 at 1600x1200+4xAA (at maximum detail ) Just Like Me !!

Reply to PX7800GT

I know your old video card isn't trying to render what the new one is. I know the 512 cards can handle it all, at high end.

Perhaps you were over estimating what all your components could give you ?

Whats with all the harddrives ? I would have gotten a raptor to use for my main hd. 10,000 rpm does make a noticeable difference.

I never used an external hd before, but I read they are signifigantly slower than others.

Back off on your settings a little. I doubt it's going to make that much of a difference.

The mobo is fast, I used to have one.

Try 2 gigs of value select...........or 2gigs of ocz platinum......

Reply to swifty_morgan

iirc the SATA thing is because some of the SATA ports on the nforce 4 aren't locked, so they take their speed from the system bus, and if I remember correctly the article/post said that ports 1 & 2 should be properly locked. Of course, this is just from memory from something I read 6-12 months ago and may have been for the nforce 3, but if your SATA drive isn't on ports 1/2 give it a go.

As for the BF2 isssues, have you got the latest graphics drivers? I seem to remember some bug fixes for it in the last few updates. Maybe the SLI profile for the game is incorrect, a quick way to check it is just disable SLI for a moment, you can do that now without rebooting, see if that helps, and if it does I'm sure a seach in google will turn up the correct SLI profile to use. :wink:

Hope this helps, let me know how you get on. Nice setep, should go like the wind once these issues are resolved

Edit: Just checked the motherboard spec in detail, seems you have an SiS SATA controller on there too, since it's seperate from the main nvidia MCP chip, it might be possible to run your SATA drive off it, assuming you have it enabled in the BIOS and all.

Reply to laitainion

So you mean that I should try to put my SATA2 harddrive in the other chipset ports? Not in the first four that is controlled by the nvidia chipset.

I am also going to turn off SLI and see what it does in Battlefield 2...

Answers coming soon...

I have external harddrives, because I need to transport them from two homes with a laptop...

Reply to falsterbo

Try switching cool n quiet off and testing battlefield - might be throttling the CPU unnecessarily.

Also check the temps of the two cards, they might be throttling if too hot, although this is a long shot because they don't throttle until they reach 100 degrees or summit (unlikely!).

Sounds stupid....but is SLI enabled i.e. ticked in the drivers/enabled in bios/the sli bridge is installed? Things to check is all! Not trying to insult your intelligence!

edit: you said its patched, I didnt read it!

With regard to your OC - try finding a place where you can lock the PCIe and PCI buses to 100Mhz and 33Mhz respectively, also check your chip can do it by lowering the memory speed to 100 or something ridiculously low then upping the bus, also...don't forget to drop the HTT/LDT bus multiplier to 3x as it is supposed to run @ 1000Mhz or less and can cause instability if too high...

Just set the memory and HTT multipler low whilst testing the processor out, you can tweak them up later i.e. your chip can do 240Mhz FSB, so tweak the HTT to 4x 240 = 960Mhz, and memory timings might be able to be tightened a little @ 240 since your corsair can run at 275.

Overclocking with Athlon 64's is a little different to the P4's because of the memory controller being on-chip and the HTT being a bus for component communication and not the memory.

A really good guide (OK its for DFI boards but explains ALOT) is available here: http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20823

My $0.02!

Matt

Reply to mfurse

I turned of SLI and ran Battlefield 2 at max quality @ 1280x1024 (my screen cannot do any more).
In the first minute of gaming it was impossible to shoot anyone because of the lag. But after one minute or a litte more it started to get smooth, but one small lag every 5 second or something. It´s like it needed to load graphics or something then...

So now I am going to restart my computer, turn of cool & quiet, search for something to lock PCI and then turn on SLI again and see what it does.

Does someone know the command in Battlefield 2 so that I can see my FPS?

Reply to falsterbo

I did a quick reboot and stoped into the bios settings.

I found:
PCI Express Clock - could be set to Normal or 100<MHz
PCI Clock Synchronization Mode - could be set to Auto, To CPU or 33,33MHz

I didn´t find anything with locking SATA ports, but I turned on the Silicon SATA Controller that has control over SATA ports 5,6,7 and 8.

I am going to try to put my harddrive in one of those ports and see if it is locked then... I have it in port 1 now and that is the nForce4 chips port.

What is S/W Dram over 4G Remapping and H/W Dram over 4G Remapping ? Should they be enabled or disabled?

---------

To get my graphics right I changed SLI from Auto to Dual Video Card so now it forces SLI to show up in Windows.

In Windows I turned off SLI and also changed the profile for Battlefield 2 from Quality to High Perfomance. (I cannot see any difference in the game)
In Battlefield 2 I turned on show FPS with the command|| renderer.drawfps 1 ||and it showed that with one card (no SLI) I got about 20-55 fps all the time and some drops to 10... With SLI turned on it boosted up the perfomance. I now got about 30-100 fps!!!

So for the first try on one server with everything on the max and 64 players running by I got the first place!!! That was so nice, because there were no lag at all!

----------

Back to the overclocking stuff. If i want to go from 2,2GHz (standard for my 3700+) to about 2,6-2,8GHz, what should I do? If my harddrives sata is locked...

Should I turn the CPU frequency to 237MHz and the multiplier to the maximum and turn down the HTT to 4x?
CPU Speed: 237 * 11 = 2607MHz
Ram Speed: 237 * 2 = 474MHz
HTT Speed: 237 * 4 = 948MHz

Am I thinking the right way?

EDIT: I also turned the Cool & Quiet off.

Reply to falsterbo

Try relaxing the RAM timings a little and make sure the PCI-E frequency is locked at 100. Sometimes you have to take things backwards to make others move forward.

Reply to Luminaris

Well,the CPU is simply too slow for 2 7800GTs.
As for the poll question:
2x7800GTs>>> 7800GTX in the applications that support SLI.
The p4 OC to 3.8(BTW temperature? anyway cool OC) should be a BIT weaker than 3700(equivalent of 3.7 GHZ) in games and equal at other stuff.
A 5950 while old still packs quite a punch. Your older sistem is much more ballanced and will perform well in CPU and GPU or CPU only stressing games . The newer will perform a lot better in very GPU hungry games( like Fear).
Oh and do not expect AMD(3700)>> Intel(3.8) in games. A few frames per second is not what i'd call a big improvement. If that P4 CPU was stabble at that clock i'd have upgraded the GFX on that system and waited for AM2 or Conroe.

And what do you mean by maximum? 8xAA and 8Xaniso? For that you probably need at least a AMD 64 4000+(or oc at that speed)/FX-55/FX-57X2 4400/X2 4800/ FX 60/Opteron oc or an Intel 955,XE or 6/9xx OC(with good cooling). The GFX card usually bottlenecks at that kind of settings but certainly a 2 7800GT should still leave a lot of stress to the CPU.
In other words
The gfx cards SHOULD NOT bottleneck your CPU .
So stay with those gfx cards and firstly change memory.
If that doesn't improve much then you could upgrade the CPU though be mindfull that the 939 socket is getting a little oldie.

In fact,if i were you i'd stay with what i have untill Conroe arrives then upgrade both memory and CPU and change mobo.

Reply to CompGeek

Okay so what you are saying is that I need to raise my CPU to atleast 2,6GHz?

I haven´t had any AMD in my life except for the oSne I have one and my first feeling of it was bad. Many of my friends tells me to buy AMD, because they are better than Pentium. Now when I have bought myself an AMD, I can tell you that it sucks compared to my old P4 @ 3,82GHz. If the AMD gets many programs at the same time it just goes crazy... The P4 is much much better!

So know I need to clock my AMD to higher speeds because it sucks, very nice to see that when you have bought a cpu that costs a lot of money.

Temp on the P4 is idle 32-38c and pressed to the max 50-58c...

Anyone know what speeds I can go for on my AMD64 3700+, my memory can handle almost everything...

Reply to falsterbo

You should be able to get at least 200 mhz clock boost out of your CPU.
And the 3700(stock) doesn't really suck(that's coming from an Intel fan) but it can't keep up with a 3.8 ghz P4(that was OCed) in some stuff which is no surprise really.
At 2.4 Ghz it should perform at least on par with the current P4.

BTW Nice temps! I dunno what's up with the Intel heating problem. For some of us they don't overheat(don't pass 60) at all :wink: .
And i'm not saying that you need to,i'm saying that if you want all bells and whistles on at some games the CPU might slow your rig down.

Reply to CompGeek

The most funny thing is that I do not have water cooling on any of my machines...

It runs @ 3,8 on air

Reply to falsterbo

If I get my AMD64 3700+ to 2,6GHz, which Intel cpu can I compare it too then?

EDIT:
Could my solution be 2Gb ram?

Reply to falsterbo

Try Tom's CPU comparison chart at: http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html to the see a 2.6Ghz Athlon64 (i.e. FX-55) against Intel's chips.

With regard to getting your chip to 2.6 - I would follow that DFI guide, the steps contained in it are summarised as:

- Lower the HTT to 3x

- Lower your RAM speed to 100Mhz

- Lock the PCIe bus to 100Mhz and PCI bus to 33Mhz

- Begin upping the FSB in small increments and running superpi 32M test and OCCT non-torture test (about 30-45 mins each), and 3Dmark 01, 03 and 05 in Windows to test each speed for basic stability (not saying its fully stable but its a good quick test) - don't worry about the speed of results...

- Keep upping until itll wont post or wont boot into windows...then drop it back a bit or begin upping the Vcore a little...not too much. If the machine won't boot it may need a cmos reset and then go to the last setting that did work...bit of a pain but my machine took about 100+ reboots to finally get my opty 170 to 2.8Ghz stable! All trial and error...

Once you find a stable frequency the processor can reach then you can start to work the memory frequency and timings up bit by bit, confident your processor is OK at that frequency - remember just cus your memory can do 275Mhz @ 2.5-4-4-8 it MAY NOT on an overclocked A64 because the memory controller is working overclocked on the chip... so it may need slacker timings or a divider to run at 2.6Ghz - at the end of the day the memory bandwidth is not such a big performance downer as a lower clock speed!

I thoroughly recommend that DFI overclocking guide though - despite you having an Asus board alot of the information contained in it will be applicable.

Good luck! [/img]

Matt

Reply to mfurse

So my best choice is to buy more ram. The memory costs around 2500 kr (swedish money) or 312,5 US Dollar.

Reply to falsterbo

On air!? Holly wakamoly.
A 2.6 Ghz AMD will probably be the equivalent of a 3.6+-0.2 ghz Intel Chip(and considerably more in games).

While more memory does help,spending a lot of money on low latency memory is not the way to go for you because you're gonna dump that memory sooner or later,replacing it with DDR2. That's provided that you make upgrades every half year or so.

Reply to CompGeek

yes you need 2GB ram,

greetz

Reply to harmonica

I am not buying cheap shit ram, when I already have PC4400/DDR550 rams... Either no ram or two 512Mb of the same sort till.

-----------

Back to the overclocking part, I have now discovered that my harddrive will run on higher FSB, but I don´t know if it is locked or not...

I tested to pull the FSB to 210MHz, but my harddrive didn´t work then. So I pulled it back to 205MHz and it worked. Just for testing I took down the HTT to 4x, instead of 5x and pushed the FSB to 210MHz again. Now it works...
So do you think my harddrive (SATA) is locked or not? I don´t want to crash it, not because of the money (I will get a new one if it crashes for free). It´s because I don´t want to reinstall everything again!

So how much can SATA handle? Or is it locked?

EDIT:
Or maybe it cannot crash? It will only start at the right Hz?

Reply to falsterbo

As others have said, you need more RAM. Also, did you get a good deal on those 7800GTs? Tigerdirect had some sort of bundle like that, giving a powersupply and two 7800GTs for about 600$. (Turned it down for the faster evga 7800GTs)

Reply to Heyyou27

No, the harddrive didn´t work... I restarted the computer and it was gone. So now I am back to standard settings.

I tried to run the harddrive in SATA-ports 5,6,7 or 8. But all of them were locked to another chips (not nForce) and it required Raid...

So anyone have a Asus A8N-SLI Premium and a SATA harddrive and have been able to clock the cpu/motherboard/ram?

Reply to falsterbo

No I didn´t have any deal... They costed me about 340$ each.

Reply to falsterbo

Quote :

I did a quick reboot and stoped into the bios settings.

I found:
PCI Express Clock - could be set to Normal or 100<MHz
PCI Clock Synchronization Mode - could be set to Auto, To CPU or 33,33MHz

I didn´t find anything with locking SATA ports, but I turned on the Silicon SATA Controller that has control over SATA ports 5,6,7 and 8.

I am going to try to put my harddrive in one of those ports and see if it is locked then... I have it in port 1 now and that is the nForce4 chips port.

What is S/W Dram over 4G Remapping and H/W Dram over 4G Remapping ? Should they be enabled or disabled?

---------

To get my graphics right I changed SLI from Auto to Dual Video Card so now it forces SLI to show up in Windows.

In Windows I turned off SLI and also changed the profile for Battlefield 2 from Quality to High Perfomance. (I cannot see any difference in the game)
In Battlefield 2 I turned on show FPS with the command|| renderer.drawfps 1 ||and it showed that with one card (no SLI) I got about 20-55 fps all the time and some drops to 10... With SLI turned on it boosted up the perfomance. I now got about 30-110 fps!!!

So for the first try on one server with everything on the max and 64 players running by I got the first place!!! That was so nice, because there were no lag at all!

----------

Back to the overclocking stuff. If i want to go from 2,2GHz (standard for my 3700+) to about 2,6-2,8GHz, what should I do? If my harddrives sata is locked...

Should I turn the CPU frequency to 237MHz and the multiplier to the maximum and turn down the HTT to 4x?
CPU Speed: 237 * 11 = 2607MHz
Ram Speed: 237 * 2 = 474MHz
HTT Speed: 237 * 4 = 948MHz

Am I thinking the right way?

Wehn you start BF2 do you have any other programs running? Well, you'll have the NIC, Firewall, etc. If you have any windows with Flash that's your problem (it was a problem I had). Turn off Firefox or IE with Flash.
EDIT: I also turned the Cool & Quiet off.

Reply to BaronMatrix

Eh, my suggestion would be to stop fiddling around with your other components and get some more ram, to get BF2 running well, you need to up it past 1gb.

Reply to madden95

Have it your way then.
2 GB memory for a memory hungry game. It should make the game runing well on max.
When in the game press Ctrl alt del and look at CPU percentage and memory usage. That should give you a clear view on what you have to upgrade.

Reply to CompGeek

Umm, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to run everything on high settings with 2gb of ram, with no overclocking. I have an athlon64 3200+ (2.0GHz) with 1gig of value ram and a geforce 6600GT, and I run 1280x1024 with everything on high except I have 2x AA and medium textures. I get a solid 40+ FPS with the only hiccups being in the first 20 seconds of a map.

2gb should definately get rid of your hiccups though 3700+ is plenty powerful, and 2x 7800GT's is DEFINATELY not holding you back.

EDIT: I just turned textures to high, and it got really f#$cking laggy. With the amount and size of textures used in BF2, you definately need 2gb of ram. And for pete's sake, leave the clocks alone. 3700+ is plenty.

Reply to unclehumjaba

BF2 realy needs 1.2GB of free ram to work ok

2x1gb sticks (not 4x512mb as there is an performace hit for doing that but then agane as you will no longer be pageing off the hdd it would not matter)

2x7800GT should be alot faster then the 7800GTX

messing with Every thing els WILL not Rid the laggy game performace as the game is useing your HDDs as Ram (pageing in and out) 2gb ram is your fix

----
on an other topic i have an asus 7800GTX TOPs on just about any video setting i get ingame performace loss
FPS goes Very low and the latency goes up to about 20 from 10
(press` (next to the 1 button) and type renderer.drawfps 1 and it will show 100/10 norm (FPS/latency) it only happens in Battlefield 2 Special Forces addon mostly on The Iron Gator but does it more so when there is Alot of activety in one spot
BF2 i can run on max setings but set 2xAntialiasing (AS) and Texture Filtering (AF Anisotropic Filtering) on Med i think performace drops alot with them on (should not be an problem with 2x VGA cards)

allso thinking it may be cpu limited when alot is going on but i am running at 2.5ghz and ram is going at ddr500 (but i think its still the same when its runing at stock speeds)

hmm an little longer then i guess heh
---

Reply to leexgx

You picked the wrong 7800GTs then. I got my 7800GTs for 320$ each, 470MHz core 1.1GHz memory.

Reply to Heyyou27

Keep in mind that he lives in Sweeden. The prices tend to be higher there.
Not all of us can get stuff cheap New Egg prices.
7800 GT in my country are all above 370(taxes included) and you can find them even at 900$(talking about a bad deal) at some local stores.
7800GTX? All at above 600$!

Reply to CompGeek

Quote :

I did a quick reboot and stoped into the bios settings.

I found:
PCI Express Clock - could be set to Normal or 100<MHz
PCI Clock Synchronization Mode - could be set to Auto, To CPU or 33,33MHz

I didn´t find anything with locking SATA ports, but I turned on the Silicon SATA Controller that has control over SATA ports 5,6,7 and 8.

I am going to try to put my harddrive in one of those ports and see if it is locked then... I have it in port 1 now and that is the nForce4 chips port.

What is S/W Dram over 4G Remapping and H/W Dram over 4G Remapping ? Should they be enabled or disabled?

---------

To get my graphics right I changed SLI from Auto to Dual Video Card so now it forces SLI to show up in Windows.

In Windows I turned off SLI and also changed the profile for Battlefield 2 from Quality to High Perfomance. (I cannot see any difference in the game)
In Battlefield 2 I turned on show FPS with the command|| renderer.drawfps 1 ||and it showed that with one card (no SLI) I got about 20-55 fps all the time and some drops to 10... With SLI turned on it boosted up the perfomance. I now got about 30-110 fps!!!

So for the first try on one server with everything on the max and 64 players running by I got the first place!!! That was so nice, because there were no lag at all!

----------

Back to the overclocking stuff. If i want to go from 2,2GHz (standard for my 3700+) to about 2,6-2,8GHz, what should I do? If my harddrives sata is locked...

Should I turn the CPU frequency to 237MHz and the multiplier to the maximum and turn down the HTT to 4x?
CPU Speed: 237 * 11 = 2607MHz
Ram Speed: 237 * 2 = 474MHz
HTT Speed: 237 * 4 = 948MHz

Am I thinking the right way?

Wehn you start BF2 do you have any other programs running? Well, you'll have the NIC, Firewall, etc. If you have any windows with Flash that's your problem (it was a problem I had). Turn off Firefox or IE with Flash.
EDIT: I also turned the Cool & Quiet off.

I think that was my problem too... Now when I don´t have anything except for my Nod32 antivirus program running it works fine!!!

Reply to falsterbo

Quote :

You picked the wrong 7800GTs then. I got my 7800GTs for 320$ each, 470MHz core 1.1GHz memory.

No, I didn´t pick wrong cards... Mine are going stable at 475MHz core and 1150MHz mem.

Reply to falsterbo

Quote :

I am always buying from the internet, but only stores in the scandinavian... Because the prices are so high in a normal store! Where do you live?

Reply to falsterbo

Quote :

Okay does it matter if I don´t buy the same ram that I already have?

Reply to falsterbo

Yeah a 2Gb ram would definitely help in performance increase and get rid of that lag while playing BF2.

Reply to chuckshissle

You don't necessarly have to, but having all of your ram identical would keep the performance on par. Just make sure that if your running dual channel, that they are paired up exactly, or that could cause problems.

Like everyone else said also, but needs to have 2GB ram in order to run effiecently. If you alt-tabbed out of the game, you'd prolly see it taking at least 800MB of ram. I've heard of it taking 1.2GB if you have the settings high enough.

Reply to bman212121

You could get over 500 with copper heatsinks.

Reply to Heyyou27

regardin the bf2 issue, take alook at my system specs... and I run bf2 at max settings very smoothly no lag at all... it is ok to check ur temps its more a driver's problem than a hardware problem

Reply to charlieyv

I am going to test BF2 today again later, because I have trimmed up my memory.

Normal settings for my memory are:
tCL - tRAS - tRCD - tRP - tRP - tRC - tRFC - tRWT - tWR - Timing
2.5 - 8 - 4 - 4 - 11 - 14 - 4 - 3 - 2

I am now running them at:
2 - 5 - 2 - 2 - 7 - 9 - 1 - 2 - 1

No problems at all, can handle Memtest86 stable. And yes it goes quicker with apps loaded into the ram!

Reply to falsterbo

In Romania.
BTW, visit the new egg website and see how low prices are there and you'll realise of what i'm talking about.

Reply to CompGeek

And there will always be room for upgrade:
now memory (as most sugested)
tomorrow CPU (3700 needs a 7800GT/GTX to run at full potential in most games, better gfx cards will get slowed down)
2 days after tomorrow GFX
and again ram
It's a never ending circle. That's what you pay for playing games i guess.

Reply to CompGeek

agreed, its a ram thing, ur cards etc are sound, you just need 2 gig ram

Reply to Cheetsy

I have 1 gb of Corsair XMS (2x512) in dual channel, with a 3.0ghz P4 and a 6600GT at 540/1080 and don't get lag running BF2 at 1024x768 on high settings with no AA or AF. I remember reading some THG charts showing that BF2 does not require more than 1gb of RAM at most resolutions and no AA or AF, confirming my setup's performance. Anyway, the video card is the number one limiting factor in BF2, followed by RAM. BF2 relies far less on the CPU than other games such as HL2. A 3700+ is more than sufficient, as is a 7800GT. The problem sounds more driver/software related to me. IMHO, RAM is not the problem.

Reply to TurdBurglar

BF2's main executable (BF2.exe) consumes slightly over 1 GB by itself on the larger maps (on my system at least and I have the first expansion pack) ... if you only have 1 GB of system memory, you can bet your a$$ it's paging to the hard drive and that is going to cause performance hickups. BF2 smoothed out considerably once I added a 2nd GB of RAM.

Reply to rodney_ws

its definately a ram problem mate, even just doing a google search for "BF2 2gig" without the "" turns up numerous results agreeing

Reply to Cheetsy

You might reference this part of a THG article.

Reply to TurdBurglar

I consider the article referenced!

http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/1 [...] page7.html

"With 2 GB system memory, the game performance is for the most part kept above 60 FPS."

Reply to Cheetsy

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AMD64 3700+ with 2x 7800GT, why doesn´t it eat the graphics?

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