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O&O Defrag Software

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Anonymous
May 14, 2005 3:47:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Here's something fot the weekend!

I mentioned this software briefly in an earlier post to Melissa
To recap, it has been recommended by MegaScenery as one of the tips to
increase FS performance.
It can defrag by name thereby grouping folders and files together in
contiguous space which has got to be useful for loading scenery files.
Having initially tried it I was fairly certain it had improved things.
Unfortunately I was having display problems so ended up re-installing FS
which gave me the opportunity for some objectivity!
..
Last night, from a reboot I loaded a flight from San Francisco which would
use MegaScenery California North and MegaCity SF.
I repeated the process (each time after a reboot) and the flight took an
average of 70 seconds to load.
I then ran the degrag program overnight and repeated the process.
Average load was now 56 seconds and the flight was running more smoothly.

It is also worth pointing out that prior to installing the MegaScenery I had
already run the defrag program so one could reasonably expect a larger
increase in the difference for load timings. Now I have a dedicated XP SP2
booted SCSI drive for FS so I'm guessing the defrag method would be fine;
I'm not sure how a single partition disk used for general use would react to
this type of defrag. Also remember that one advantage of scsi is its read
speed.

For those that are interested I use an Athlon 3000XP processor with 1Gb ram
and a Radeon 9800XT.
Apart from the MegaScenery I have My Traffic, USA Roads and FSNav installed

The software is available by download for a 30 day download from
<http://www.oo-software.com/en/download/index.shtml?prod...;

For large installations this is going to take a while and of course is going
to give your HD a good seeing to!
Evidently, overclockers should throttle back first!

Chris

More about : defrag software

May 14, 2005 3:47:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 14 May 2005 11:47:17 +0100, "Chris Curtis"
<newsgroup@nospam.net> brought the following to our attention:

>Here's something fot the weekend!
>
>I mentioned this software briefly in an earlier post to Melissa
>To recap, it has been recommended by MegaScenery as one of the tips to
>increase FS performance.
>It can defrag by name thereby grouping folders and files together in
>contiguous space which has got to be useful for loading scenery files.
>Having initially tried it I was fairly certain it had improved things.
>Unfortunately I was having display problems so ended up re-installing FS
>which gave me the opportunity for some objectivity!
>.
>Last night, from a reboot I loaded a flight from San Francisco which would
>use MegaScenery California North and MegaCity SF.
>I repeated the process (each time after a reboot) and the flight took an
>average of 70 seconds to load.
>I then ran the degrag program overnight and repeated the process.
>Average load was now 56 seconds and the flight was running more smoothly.
>
>It is also worth pointing out that prior to installing the MegaScenery I had
>already run the defrag program so one could reasonably expect a larger
>increase in the difference for load timings. Now I have a dedicated XP SP2
>booted SCSI drive for FS so I'm guessing the defrag method would be fine;
>I'm not sure how a single partition disk used for general use would react to
>this type of defrag. Also remember that one advantage of scsi is its read
>speed.
>
>For those that are interested I use an Athlon 3000XP processor with 1Gb ram
>and a Radeon 9800XT.
>Apart from the MegaScenery I have My Traffic, USA Roads and FSNav installed
>
>The software is available by download for a 30 day download from
><http://www.oo-software.com/en/download/index.shtml?prod...;
>
>For large installations this is going to take a while and of course is going
>to give your HD a good seeing to!
>Evidently, overclockers should throttle back first!
>
>Chris
>

O-O software? sound like from Maryland. { chuckle }

for heaven sake.. what about ol Ironsides DK http://www.executive.com


-G
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 7:54:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi Chris,

On Sat, 14 May 2005 23:06:52 +0100, you wrote:

> Some questions first!
> How are your drives/partitions configured? ie do you have a
> separate partition for FS or indeed for PNW (as mentioned by
> MegaScenery?)

At the time my hard drives and the OS were configured, it was done by
someone else, and with me not knowing enough to ask for a specific
configuration in terms of partitions and such, he just configured my
main hard drive (with OS and all programs installed on it) as a
single partition (C:) . My second hard drive is just used for NTFS
storage space (downloaded files, etc.) and additional virtual memory
(something I implemented after reading the MegaScenery
recommendations).

I'm going to be needing a new hard drive - or two - soon, as I'm
quickly running out of space. My primary HD (C:)  is 80 GB, and
there's now only 15 GB of free space on it. The secondary drive (D:) 
is only 20 GB, now with 12 GB free space (not enough for the
uncompressed MegaScenery PNW files alone, which totals 16 GB).

I *can* burn some DVDs of downloaded files from the secondary drive
in order to free up more space (in fact, by doing this, I could
probably get away with freeing up most of the space on this drive).
Even if I cleared the second hard drive completely, I could only fit
the MegaScenery files on there with just a few GB of free space left.
Would this be worth it anyway?

It may be at least another month or two before I can convince myself
to spend the money on more HD space (I'm thinking about replacing
both with larger volume disks), so I'm thinking that I should
probably wait until then to think seriously about the partitioning
issues.

> How long is the defrag taking nightly?

The 80 GB drive is taking an average of about four hours, and the 20
GB drive, which gets much less daily usage in terms of activity,
takes about half an hour.

> My initial reaction based on my (so far) limited experience is that
> the Complete/name defrag is very 'aggresive' and isn't necessary on
> a daily basis.

This may well be true. As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't
know much about this issue other than it is generally recommended to
keep the hard drives defragmented. Perhaps my current schedule is
indeed overkill, and if there's a chance of making things worse for
the physical state of the drives themselves, I would certainly be
willing to re-think my current daily routine.

> My understanding of it would suggest that if, for instance, your
> Temporary Internet Files folder was located before your FS files
> you could be performing a very intensive proceedure every time; in
> fact you would be 're-ordering' files rather than defragging. For
> this reason I'm pretty sure this type of defrag is ideal for a self
> contained FS setup but less so for a single partition.

Why "less so"? Whether or not it's a best practice, I know that many
users not familiar with the concept of more specialized partitioning
are in a similar position to me, in that our hard drives are each
configured as a single partition.

I've only looked quickly at the O&O help files in order to get a
general idea of the different methods it offers, and I do remember it
recommending a "mix and match" approach, depending on the type of
usage a drive is subject to. I'll dig deeper into the help files
tonight to see if I can gain a better understanding of all this.

> The sort of defrag that Gregory has indicated for DK is much less
> intensive and even then, unless you are running programs (like
> large databases) whose files are increasing in size, are not needed
> on a daily basis.

Now that you mention it, my email program holds a pretty large and
ever increasing database (current size is almost 1 GB, but by today's
standards, I guess that's not "huge"; certainly not when compared to
the amount of files associated with my fs9, which, with MegaScenery
PNW, is now up to 36 GB!).

- --
Melissa

PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/

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Related resources
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 8:09:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

In article <1ejfvkbhj5f7i.dlg@uni-berlin.de>,
willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net says...
> The 80 GB drive is taking an average of about four hours, and the 20
> GB drive, which gets much less daily usage in terms of activity,
> takes about half an hour.

This seems awfully long. I have a pair of 10K rpm HD's in a RAID array,
with a 100 GB partition which I use for MSFS and scenery (about 70%
full). I defrag once/week and it takes about 10 minutes on that
partition.

You might look into HD Tach and measure the performance of your drives.
Slow disks make MSFS really drag.

/Chris T
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 8:11:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Gregory" wrote:

> for heaven sake.. what about ol Ironsides DK http://www.executive.com

DK is best of the best. I'm with computers and software
for many years, so I'll hope I know what I'm talking about.

To organize and defrag your harddrive well, is the one thing.
Defragmenting the harddrive to death, is the other.

It's not recommend to defrag your harddrive all the time.
Expecially not, if it is full of data (10 gig and above) This
will finish your drive.

Tip:
Organize your FS2004-partition well, install FS2004 and
defragment. Then install all your loads of addons and defragment
again. Now defragment it never again, as long as you didn't
reinstall it all. Your disk will thank you.

But it's a good idea, to keep the (windows-)system-partition
small and defragment this small partition from time to time.

Do not use an agent, which permanently defrag your disk in
the background. This is the drives death-sentence in the long
term. JMO!

Jan
May 14, 2005 8:11:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 14 May 2005 16:11:13 +0200, "Jan Berg" <jan@epost.de> brought
the following to our attention:

>"Gregory" wrote:
>
>> for heaven sake.. what about ol Ironsides DK http://www.executive.com
>
>DK is best of the best. I'm with computers and software
>for many years, so I'll hope I know what I'm talking about.

Jan.. well put. Executive has written the `built in' defrag for Win2k.
Being a former channel partner bud.. have had the NFR (not for resale)
versions of DK for many years. I recommend and install it as a system
integrator - in essence yes.. actuality no.. don't build and sell many
systems. DK is time tested and problem-free IMHO.

>To organize and defrag your harddrive well, is the one thing.
>Defragmenting the harddrive to death, is the other.

I think this is heresy.. I defrag whenever there's a significant
change of the volume such as after downloading or copying lots of
files.. in manual mode that is. DK's been run on these 10k Cheetahs
for 7-years (since 1998) and the `death sentence' is rather extreme
if not completely unfounded.. in all due respect.

>It's not recommend to defrag your harddrive all the time.
>Expecially not, if it is full of data (10 gig and above) This
>will finish your drive.

I run DK one each HD before shutdown every night.. the disks have
almost NO fragments. They're well maintained.. especially when it
comes to airflow. With NEW FanMod hi-CFM case fan installed which
is noisy but does it ever move Air!! It draws air over the underside
(circuit board) of the drives in sideways-front mounted cage.

ALSO.. if your box runs 24/7 .. DK can be scheduled to defrag
middle-of-night.. separate times for each HD that is.

-Gregory

>Tip:
>Organize your FS2004-partition well, install FS2004 and
>defragment. Then install all your loads of addons and defragment
>again. Now defragment it never again, as long as you didn't
>reinstall it all. Your disk will thank you.
>
>But it's a good idea, to keep the (windows-)system-partition
>small and defragment this small partition from time to time.
>
>Do not use an agent, which permanently defrag your disk in
>the background. This is the drives death-sentence in the long
>term. JMO!
>
>Jan
>
>
>
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 8:53:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi Chris,

On Sat, 14 May 2005 16:09:40 -0700, you wrote:

> You might look into HD Tach and measure the performance of your
> drives.

Okay, I've run HD Tach on both drives. Here are the results (screen
shots):

C: http://tinyurl.com/a57xz

Here's the drive information according to "Everest":

ATA Device Physical Info

Manufacturer Seagate
Hard Disk Name Barracuda 7200.7 80011
Form Factor 3.5"
Formatted Capacity 80 GB
Disks 1
Recording Surfaces 2
Physical Dimensions 146.56 x 101.85 x 26.1 mm
Max. Weight 544 g
Average Rotational Latency 4.16 ms
Rotational Speed 7200 RPM
Max. Internal Data Rate 683 Mbit/s
Average Seek 8.5 ms
Interface Ultra-ATA/100
Buffer-to-Host Data Rate 100 MB/s
Buffer Size 2 MB
Spin-Up Time 10 sec


D: http://tinyurl.com/72pgm

Here's the drive information according to "Everest":

ATA Device Physical Info

Manufacturer Seagate
Hard Disk Name Barracuda ATA III 20414
Form Factor 3.5"
Formatted Capacity 20480 million bytes
Disks 1
Recording Surfaces 2
Physical Dimensions 147 x 101.85 x 26.1 mm
Max. Weight 544 g
Average Rotational Latency 4.16 ms
Rotational Speed 7200 RPM
Max. Internal Data Rate 500 Mbit/s
Average Seek 8.9 ms
Interface Ultra-ATA/100
Buffer-to-Host Data Rate 100 MB/s
Buffer Size 2 MB


> Slow disks make MSFS really drag.

Though I don't understand all of this, it does seem that my drives are
pretty slow. Is this correct?

In that case, in spite of present performance, I'm actually feeling
encouraged, as this would mean that when I get new and faster drives,
I should see improved fs9 performance, right? :-)

For the moment, is there anything I can do to improve the performance
of my current hard drives?

- --
Melissa

PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/

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Anonymous
May 14, 2005 9:21:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

FFS cut me some slack will you guys. I go to the effort of imparting some
info which could make a significant improvement to SOME systems and all I
get are dismissive responses which don't comment on the points I raised and
contribute nothing as an answer.

Since you are both well versed in DK you will know that it does not give the
option to defrag by folder/file name simply because in most cases that would
not be a desirable method. Certainly I wouldn't be doing it on my other
drive nor in the workplace.

This piece of instantly dismissed software does and in the case of some FS
setups (like the one I was describing) could be highly desirable
particularly on drives/partitions which are FS specific and contain scenery
folders and files. This is hardly an uncommon scenario in this group and
elsewhere in the FS community.

Where do I mention about repeatedly using this method? And anyone decrying
regular defrags doesn't manage large database networks.
As a Network Administrator I've been using DK since 'day one'. Ironically I
was running it on a laptop when reading your reply. At 2.00am tomorrow
morning our data servers will be receiving their scheduled weekly defrag as
they have been for many a year.

Chris
May 14, 2005 9:21:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 14 May 2005 17:21:18 +0100, "Chris Curtis"
<newsgroup@nospam.net> brought the following to our attention:

>FFS cut me some slack will you guys. I go to the effort of imparting some
>info which could make a significant improvement to SOME systems and all I
>get are dismissive responses which don't comment on the points I raised and
>contribute nothing as an answer.
>
>Since you are both well versed in DK you will know that it does not give the
>option to defrag by folder/file name simply because in most cases that would
>not be a desirable method. Certainly I wouldn't be doing it on my other
>drive nor in the workplace.
>
>This piece of instantly dismissed software does and in the case of some FS
>setups (like the one I was describing) could be highly desirable
>particularly on drives/partitions which are FS specific and contain scenery
>folders and files. This is hardly an uncommon scenario in this group and
>elsewhere in the FS community.
>
>Where do I mention about repeatedly using this method? And anyone decrying
>regular defrags doesn't manage large database networks.
>As a Network Administrator I've been using DK since 'day one'. Ironically I
>was running it on a laptop when reading your reply. At 2.00am tomorrow
>morning our data servers will be receiving their scheduled weekly defrag as
>they have been for many a year.
>
>Chris
>

Ok.. ok.. point is well taken. Apparently O&O has some additional
features. SO let's not dismiss it so quickly.


-Gregory
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 2:35:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

In article <1uh2wubldmyuk.dlg@uni-berlin.de>,
willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net says...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Sat, 14 May 2005 16:09:40 -0700, you wrote:
>
> > You might look into HD Tach and measure the performance of your
> > drives.
>
> Okay, I've run HD Tach on both drives. Here are the results (screen
> shots):
>
> C: http://tinyurl.com/a57xz

Well, the Barracuda are good drives, but the performance isn't state of
the art these days. Here's a comparison of what you got vs. what I see
in HD Tach:

Burst: 81.2 vs 178.7 MB/s
Avg Read: 46.1 vs 119.4 MB/s
Random access: 17.6 vs 6.2 millisec.

So yes, I'd expect newer drives to perform better and you will notice
improved MSFS performance, especially with large scenery like Mega's
PNW. It takes me about 20 secs to launch a flight with PNW, as a
comparison point.

You might want to take a look at the defrag utility I use: Raxco's
PerfectDisk. The first run will be slow, since every defrag utility
wants to rearrange everything. After that, PerfectDisk will be fast. I
swtiched from DiskKeeper a couple of years ago after having DK
repeatedly corrupt a disk, and being unable to get an reasonable
response from DK support.. Never had a problem with PD. With the large
buffers build into HDs these days, I've not been able to measure
performance improvement with file ordering by name. However, having an
un-defragged disk and having a scenery file in 200 separate pieces,
requiring 200 seeks, 200 rotations, and 200 reads WILL be deathly slow.

/Chris T
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 3:12:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Gregory" <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote in message
news:13lc81112mdc0qsv1udhj7bsalou86jgl4@4ax.com...
>
> Ok.. ok.. point is well taken. Apparently O&O has some additional
> features. SO let's not dismiss it so quickly.
>
>
> -Gregory
>

:) )
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 2:30:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Lawn Dart" <willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:1ejfvkbhj5f7i.dlg@uni-berlin.de...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Sat, 14 May 2005 23:06:52 +0100, you wrote:
>
>> Some questions first!
>> How are your drives/partitions configured? ie do you have a
>> separate partition for FS or indeed for PNW (as mentioned by
>> MegaScenery?)
>
> At the time my hard drives and the OS were configured, it was done by
> someone else, and with me not knowing enough to ask for a specific
> configuration in terms of partitions and such, he just configured my
> main hard drive (with OS and all programs installed on it) as a
> single partition (C:) . My second hard drive is just used for NTFS
> storage space (downloaded files, etc.) and additional virtual memory
> (something I implemented after reading the MegaScenery
> recommendations).
>
> I'm going to be needing a new hard drive - or two - soon, as I'm
> quickly running out of space. My primary HD (C:)  is 80 GB, and
> there's now only 15 GB of free space on it. The secondary drive (D:) 
> is only 20 GB, now with 12 GB free space (not enough for the
> uncompressed MegaScenery PNW files alone, which totals 16 GB).
>
> I *can* burn some DVDs of downloaded files from the secondary drive
> in order to free up more space (in fact, by doing this, I could
> probably get away with freeing up most of the space on this drive).
> Even if I cleared the second hard drive completely, I could only fit
> the MegaScenery files on there with just a few GB of free space left.
> Would this be worth it anyway?
>
> It may be at least another month or two before I can convince myself
> to spend the money on more HD space (I'm thinking about replacing
> both with larger volume disks), so I'm thinking that I should
> probably wait until then to think seriously about the partitioning
> issues.
>
>> How long is the defrag taking nightly?
>
> The 80 GB drive is taking an average of about four hours, and the 20
> GB drive, which gets much less daily usage in terms of activity,
> takes about half an hour.
>
>> My initial reaction based on my (so far) limited experience is that
>> the Complete/name defrag is very 'aggresive' and isn't necessary on
>> a daily basis.
>
> This may well be true. As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't
> know much about this issue other than it is generally recommended to
> keep the hard drives defragmented. Perhaps my current schedule is
> indeed overkill, and if there's a chance of making things worse for
> the physical state of the drives themselves, I would certainly be
> willing to re-think my current daily routine.
>
>> My understanding of it would suggest that if, for instance, your
>> Temporary Internet Files folder was located before your FS files
>> you could be performing a very intensive proceedure every time; in
>> fact you would be 're-ordering' files rather than defragging. For
>> this reason I'm pretty sure this type of defrag is ideal for a self
>> contained FS setup but less so for a single partition.
>
> Why "less so"? Whether or not it's a best practice, I know that many
> users not familiar with the concept of more specialized partitioning
> are in a similar position to me, in that our hard drives are each
> configured as a single partition.
>
> I've only looked quickly at the O&O help files in order to get a
> general idea of the different methods it offers, and I do remember it
> recommending a "mix and match" approach, depending on the type of
> usage a drive is subject to. I'll dig deeper into the help files
> tonight to see if I can gain a better understanding of all this.
>
>> The sort of defrag that Gregory has indicated for DK is much less
>> intensive and even then, unless you are running programs (like
>> large databases) whose files are increasing in size, are not needed
>> on a daily basis.
>
> Now that you mention it, my email program holds a pretty large and
> ever increasing database (current size is almost 1 GB, but by today's
> standards, I guess that's not "huge"; certainly not when compared to
> the amount of files associated with my fs9, which, with MegaScenery
> PNW, is now up to 36 GB!).
>
> - --
> Melissa

Good morning Melissa!

Your HD's would benefit from a replacement as the advice from Chris H has
revealed!
I know you have spent quite a bit recently but a replacement should give a
noticeable improvement.
For instance a 160mb (quite small by todays standard) could be partitioned
so (for instance) drive C could match what you currently have; Drive D could
be solely for FS and if you wanted you could have a third partition for add
on scenery files. This way you could run different types of defrag.
I'm sure your recently purchased motherboard will accept SATA drives. If you
really want to push the boat out there is a drive from Western Digital
called the Raptor which is particularly quick.

Alternatively; if you are happy with your current disk's performance for
everyday use you could add a new drive purely for FS and run a dual boot
system like I do. This allows you to 'customise' the disk purely for using
FS. An example of this would be to follow the MegaScenery tip re disabling
the last file access date stamping. I can see the reason for doing this
regarding scenery files but you wouldn't wan't to apply it to a non FS
specific drive!
In any case don't forget you can keep your existing disks; you could use
them for backups (using imaging software) or even put one of them in a caddy
thereby creating a removable/external device!

As to your current defrag situation. Your evening routine is not going to be
enjoyed by your drive! 4 hours is a very long time and confirms what I said
earlier. Don't forget that a fragmented file is a single file which occupies
non contiguous (adjacent) space. Your defrag by Name routine will be mostly
reordering the files by folder and name so if a new file is written near the
beginning of the disk all subsequent ones will be moved behind it! Hence
the long time taken. I would recommend you stop doing this! We need to
investigate which other O & O method would be more suitable on a regular
basis! I'll contact them and ask what they would recommend and report back.

Hope this hasn't been too much of a ramble.

Chris
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 3:48:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Chris Curtis" <newsgroup@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:t42dnRyY5-peixrfRVnygQ@pipex.net...

> As to your current defrag situation. Your evening routine is not going to
> be enjoyed by your drive! 4 hours is a very long time and confirms what I
> said earlier. Don't forget that a fragmented file is a single file which
> occupies non contiguous (adjacent) space. Your defrag by Name routine will
> be mostly reordering the files by folder and name so if a new file is
> written near the beginning of the disk all subsequent ones will be moved
> behind it! Hence the long time taken. I would recommend you stop doing
> this! We need to investigate which other O & O method would be more
> suitable on a regular basis! I'll contact them and ask what they would
> recommend and report back.
>
> Hope this hasn't been too much of a ramble.
>
> Chris
>

Hi Melissa

I've emailed O & O asking them for recommendations where FS is not on its
own partition.
I've asked them to respond to this thread so we'll see!

Chris
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 1:24:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160

Hi Chris,

On Sun, 15 May 2005 10:30:41 +0100, you wrote:

> Hope this hasn't been too much of a ramble.

Not at all. I appreciate it. Last night, I did change the regular
"jobs" from "Complete/Name" to "Space". The "Space" defrag on the 80
GB drive took only about two minutes.

I will be looking into new hard drives as soon as I can afford to, but
since I would want something of both greater speed and high enough
overall quality to expect that I won't be feeling like upgrading
them again too soon, it may be two or three months before I can
seriously consider this particular upgrade. From the little bit of
looking around I've done so far, it looks like larger, faster, high
quality hard drives are pretty expensive! :-)

Thanks again...to both Chris and Chris! :-)

- --
Melissa

PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/

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May 16, 2005 3:41:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

This may sound kinda dorky, but what's wrong with the Windows XP defragger?
Seems to work for me.

Arthur

"Chris Curtis" <newsgroup@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:AZednfMXh7-StBrfRVnyjw@pipex.net...
> "Chris Curtis" <newsgroup@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:t42dnRyY5-peixrfRVnygQ@pipex.net...
>
>> As to your current defrag situation. Your evening routine is not going to
>> be enjoyed by your drive! 4 hours is a very long time and confirms what I
>> said earlier. Don't forget that a fragmented file is a single file which
>> occupies non contiguous (adjacent) space. Your defrag by Name routine
>> will be mostly reordering the files by folder and name so if a new file
>> is written near the beginning of the disk all subsequent ones will be
>> moved behind it! Hence the long time taken. I would recommend you stop
>> doing this! We need to investigate which other O & O method would be
>> more suitable on a regular basis! I'll contact them and ask what they
>> would recommend and report back.
>>
>> Hope this hasn't been too much of a ramble.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> Hi Melissa
>
> I've emailed O & O asking them for recommendations where FS is not on its
> own partition.
> I've asked them to respond to this thread so we'll see!
>
> Chris
>
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 8:31:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 15 May 2005 11:48:44 +0100, "Chris Curtis"
<newsgroup@nospam.net> wrote:

>"Chris Curtis" <newsgroup@nospam.net> wrote in message
>news:t42dnRyY5-peixrfRVnygQ@pipex.net...
>
>> As to your current defrag situation. Your evening routine is not going to
>> be enjoyed by your drive! 4 hours is a very long time and confirms what I
>> said earlier. Don't forget that a fragmented file is a single file which
>> occupies non contiguous (adjacent) space. Your defrag by Name routine will
>> be mostly reordering the files by folder and name so if a new file is
>> written near the beginning of the disk all subsequent ones will be moved
>> behind it! Hence the long time taken. I would recommend you stop doing
>> this! We need to investigate which other O & O method would be more
>> suitable on a regular basis! I'll contact them and ask what they would
>> recommend and report back.
>>
>> Hope this hasn't been too much of a ramble.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
>Hi Melissa
>
>I've emailed O & O asking them for recommendations where FS is not on its
>own partition.
>I've asked them to respond to this thread so we'll see!
>
>Chris
>


I'm not sure how many use this procedure,but since the topic seems to
be concerning HD access,I thought I would post the following for those
who aren't aware of it..is Disabling Last Disk Access...here is what
is stated:


"Whenever any file in an NTFS file system is accessed,(read or write),
NTFS will write a few bytes that sets the last access date and time
to that file,providing that the file was accessed more than 1 hour
ago.
So pretty much,every NTFS read operation,becomes a write operation.
It can have an impact on performance when a program accesses alot
of files during loading,just like FS does.All you want is a read
operation.You really have no need for knowing your last disk access
for your FS files."


So..to disable "Last Disk Access"...go to Command Prompt (Start..>All
Programs..>Accessories,and on to the DOS Prompt.
Now type the following command listed below:

fsutil behavior set disablelastaccess 1


This will disable the last access info written to each file as it is
accessed!I seem to get a bit more smoothness,it may even work
better for others.But thought I would pass it along for anyone
who didn't know,and looks for better ways to trim access.

This is supposed to speed up HD file read-access.Hope it helps.

Doug
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 5:50:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"D.Crowe" <out@sea.com> wrote in message
news:ea7g815f9234jic34fjsf34t74cb6r6r56@4ax.com...
> I'm not sure how many use this procedure,but since the topic seems to
> be concerning HD access,I thought I would post the following for those
> who aren't aware of it..is Disabling Last Disk Access...here is what
> is stated:
>
>
> "Whenever any file in an NTFS file system is accessed,(read or write),
> NTFS will write a few bytes that sets the last access date and time
> to that file,providing that the file was accessed more than 1 hour
> ago.
> So pretty much,every NTFS read operation,becomes a write operation.
> It can have an impact on performance when a program accesses alot
> of files during loading,just like FS does.All you want is a read
> operation.You really have no need for knowing your last disk access
> for your FS files."
>
>
> So..to disable "Last Disk Access"...go to Command Prompt (Start..>All
> Programs..>Accessories,and on to the DOS Prompt.
> Now type the following command listed below:
>
> fsutil behavior set disablelastaccess 1
>
>
> This will disable the last access info written to each file as it is
> accessed!I seem to get a bit more smoothness,it may even work
> better for others.But thought I would pass it along for anyone
> who didn't know,and looks for better ways to trim access.
>
> This is supposed to speed up HD file read-access.Hope it helps.
>
> Doug

Hi Doug

Yes that is another tweak mentioned by MegaScenery which I have applied.
However, I'm not sure of the wisdom to doing it for a non FS specific
drive/partition.
Perhaps others would like to comment!!

Chris
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 5:50:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

In article <r7idnY27HaW9ChXfRVnyiQ@pipex.net>, chris@nospam.net says...
> "D.Crowe" <out@sea.com> wrote in message
> > This will disable the last access info written to each file as it is
> > accessed!I seem to get a bit more smoothness,it may even work
> > better for others.But thought I would pass it along for anyone
> > who didn't know,and looks for better ways to trim access.
> >
> > This is supposed to speed up HD file read-access.Hope it helps.
> >
> > Doug

Disabling the LAT update would speed up disk access, but since Win XP
has been shipping with the update disabled for a while now, most people
don't have to worry about it. Even MS realized it was a bad idea. If
you have an older version of Windows, turn LAT updating off.

/Chris T
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 5:55:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Arthur" <alspectorz@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:uLidnfRFKtriixXfRVn-jA@rogers.com...
> This may sound kinda dorky, but what's wrong with the Windows XP
> defragger? Seems to work for me.
>
> Arthur
>

I'm sure it is better than nothing Arthur!
This particular piece of software will actually re-order your files by
folder and file name.
This would suit scenery files. When watching the process when it is first
done, it is amazing how 'scattered' the scenery files are on a drive.

Chris
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 6:29:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Arthur wrote:
> This may sound kinda dorky, but what's wrong with the Windows XP
> defragger? Seems to work for me.


This whole thread is soooo dorky that my head hurts. I think the Chrises and
Lawn Dart should go into a chat room somewhere - wheeeeeww ;-)

PS I know I should just leave it alone, but I am so inquisitive, I can't not
read threads, even when I don't understand them.

Cheers,


Quilly











An individual reply goes into my spam filter
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 8:41:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Quilljar" <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 6aaov$6oc$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> This whole thread is soooo dorky that my head hurts. I think the Chrises
> and Lawn Dart should go into a chat room somewhere - wheeeeeww ;-)
>
> PS I know I should just leave it alone, but I am so inquisitive, I can't
> not read threads, even when I don't understand them.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Quilly
>

LOL! Yes there is a hint of anorak about it. That said I'm becoming more
impressed with the difference it has made.
I don't htink we've finished yet though!!

Chris
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 11:02:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> LOL! Yes there is a hint of anorak about it. That said I'm becoming
> more impressed with the difference it has made.
> I don't htink we've finished yet though!!
>
> Chris

Ah well that's good then aye?


--
Cheers,

Quilly











An individual reply goes into my spam filter
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 2:10:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Quilljar" <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 6aqnh$nmt$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Ah well that's good then aye?
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Quilly
>

You don't sound convinced!
I'm down your way this weekend.
I have an aunt who lives in East Dean (between Romsey and Salisbury)
opposite what was the Navy's weapons storage facility!

Chris
May 17, 2005 5:44:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Have a look at this web site for some XP tweaks:

http://kadaitcha.cx/performance.html

Fred



"Lawn Dart" <willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:ge9fa92kptd3$.dlg@uni-berlin.de...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: RIPEMD160
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Sun, 15 May 2005 10:30:41 +0100, you wrote:
>
>> Hope this hasn't been too much of a ramble.
>
> Not at all. I appreciate it. Last night, I did change the regular
> "jobs" from "Complete/Name" to "Space". The "Space" defrag on the 80
> GB drive took only about two minutes.
>
> I will be looking into new hard drives as soon as I can afford to, but
> since I would want something of both greater speed and high enough
> overall quality to expect that I won't be feeling like upgrading
> them again too soon, it may be two or three months before I can
> seriously consider this particular upgrade. From the little bit of
> looking around I've done so far, it looks like larger, faster, high
> quality hard drives are pretty expensive! :-)
>
> Thanks again...to both Chris and Chris! :-)
>
> - --
> Melissa
>
> PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> iQCVAwUBQoggRzEYqNTZBqoEAQPuSwP/fV+LBuVdabtux7KIB9BwBUDsIINkuFVC
> K7D2WEmGRQjPLKzaMRJ3yj6f8WtI6SB6SjFKY8NoPn8Ln4gADEjDvkhwqZNdIqoQ
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> hsDTMxIsOA0=
> =LM9V
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 5:44:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Be aware, though, that magic is often unreliable :-). And never
implement the recommended "LargeSystemCache" tweak unless you are willing to
accept the risk of a possible HD format and OS reinstall. This one has
bitten a lot of simmers in the last couple of years.

Trip

--------------------------------------------------

"Fred" <not@nospamsure.com> wrote in message
news:D 6bepj$60d$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Have a look at this web site for some XP tweaks:
>
> http://kadaitcha.cx/performance.html
>
> Fred
>
>
>
> "Lawn Dart" <willkayakforfoodREMOVE_THIS@gmx.net> wrote in message
> news:ge9fa92kptd3$.dlg@uni-berlin.de...
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: RIPEMD160
>>
>> Hi Chris,
>>
>> On Sun, 15 May 2005 10:30:41 +0100, you wrote:
>>
>>> Hope this hasn't been too much of a ramble.
>>
>> Not at all. I appreciate it. Last night, I did change the regular
>> "jobs" from "Complete/Name" to "Space". The "Space" defrag on the 80
>> GB drive took only about two minutes.
>>
>> I will be looking into new hard drives as soon as I can afford to, but
>> since I would want something of both greater speed and high enough
>> overall quality to expect that I won't be feeling like upgrading
>> them again too soon, it may be two or three months before I can
>> seriously consider this particular upgrade. From the little bit of
>> looking around I've done so far, it looks like larger, faster, high
>> quality hard drives are pretty expensive! :-)
>>
>> Thanks again...to both Chris and Chris! :-)
>>
>> - --
>> Melissa
>>
>> PGP Public Keys: http://www.freewebs.com/kuviahunnihautik/
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>> iQCVAwUBQoggRzEYqNTZBqoEAQPuSwP/fV+LBuVdabtux7KIB9BwBUDsIINkuFVC
>> K7D2WEmGRQjPLKzaMRJ3yj6f8WtI6SB6SjFKY8NoPn8Ln4gADEjDvkhwqZNdIqoQ
>> nSymt7oXwDT8XGyfbCZ98dyxLXWKwJ4uZaM9qUvMtRXfOYAG6CHvbeg7QDg8Iegl
>> hsDTMxIsOA0=
>> =LM9V
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
!