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AGP users: x1600 512mb or 7800gs 256mb

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March 1, 2006 5:07:48 PM

Hello all, I'm looking to upgrade my AGP video card from a 9700 All-in-wonder Pro 128mb. The 2 cards I'm currently researching are the ATI x1600 with 512mb and the new eVGA 7800 GS OC with 256mb both on AGP. I was wondering if anyone has compared the ATI x1600 to the new eVGA 7800gs for AGP users. I figure the 7800 is a more powerful GPU but I'm not sure if I would benefit more from the additional memory offered on the x1600. I appologize if this is an old topic and has been discussed. My search skills have turned up nothing useful. Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome. Thanks in advance for the info!

Jason

Abit IC7-Max3
Intel P4 3.2Ghz
1GB Corsair LLPro
ATI 9700 Pro 128MB
March 1, 2006 5:34:07 PM

I don't know of any games that can utilize that much video ram. From what I've read, the x1600 line of cards are pretty unspectacular and that the 7800gs is the cream of the AGP crop. So if you want performance the 7800gs is what you want.

However, if you're going to drop $300 on a video card for an outdated platform (AGP) you might as well save for an extra week or two and go for pci-e. You can get a combo socket 939 proc and decent NF4 mobo for less than $300 easily. Then at least you're a little bit more upgradeable in the future. Just my two cents.
March 1, 2006 5:59:09 PM

1. Videocard memory has very little affect on performance. A 1000mb X1600 would still be slower than a 128mb 7800GS

2. [edit] you know what, scratch #2. An X1600 is probably a good 30% to 40% better than a 9700 PRO. An X1600 PRO is pretty decent if you can get it for $150 or so in AGP. [/edit]

3. In AGP you shouldn't spend more than $200 or so to upgrade. If you have more than that, it's worth it to spend a bit more, get a PCI-express motherboard (what socket is your P4?) and PCI-express videocard (like a 7800 GT for about $275 which kicks a 7800 GS' ass) and migrate.

4. Good cards for you to consider are the X1600 PRO, X800 GTO, X800 PRO, X800 XT, X850 XT, 6800 GS... assuming you can find them for under $240 or so. Look for used 6800 GTs as well, you might find a deal.
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March 1, 2006 6:24:33 PM

If you want speed, get new everything.
The PCIe cards are much faster than AGP and new cards are always cheaper.
A 7800GS, X800, or 6800GT will add a little life, but then you are at the end of the rope.
For any card, get at LEAST 16 piplines.
March 1, 2006 7:27:39 PM

Seriously, get a proc + mobo combo. The agp era is pretty much near it's death and spending money on such thing would be pretty lame. You can do what I did, I spent money on a 939 3200+ and a a8nvm - csm mobo with integrated graphics. I can use the integrated graphics for the time as it is quite decent for the games I run. Then buy a good video card afterwards.
March 1, 2006 7:42:51 PM

I have to agree with the consensus here. While the 7800GS is far superior to the X1600 (in all tests except the 'throwing off a tall building and seeing how long it takes to land test', although I suspect it would even win that) I can't really recommend a $300 video card upgrade for an AGP platform unless you have a top of the line CPU on your existing mobo.

As mentioned earlier, that $200 cap is really an excellent threshold to set yourself.....I only upgraded to a 6800GS AGP when prices were below $200 and even that was a borderline decision and based more on an expensive year to look forward to (getting married is not a cheap process!!!!!) than upgrade possibilities.

If you want other options I'd say look at the ASRock dualSata socket 939 mobo (with PCI-E & AGP) but seeing as you don't have that great an AGP card right now I wouldn't even mess with that.

For $360 you can currently get a 7800GT and eVGA SLI mobo at TigerDirect, the 7800GT is significantly better than the 7800GS so if you can save a couple of hundred more you suddenly have yourself a sweet system. You might even find better deals too.
a b U Graphics card
March 1, 2006 7:49:58 PM

He has a P4 3.2GHz, nice i875p mobo, and a 9700 pro. Doing what you did and going with integrated graphics and a S939 would be a few giant steps backwards in performance. He has the perfect setup for upgrading to a better AGP card. 6800GS, AIW X800XT or 7800GS would do him wonders.

That said, I agree that upgrading to PCI-e would be a great idea. If he were to sell off the mobo, cpu, 9700 pro, he could get some good cash for an upgrade. Seeing how PCI-e X850XT is $165 on Newegg, that would match a 7800GS performance and leave $135 left over toward the S939 mobo and CPU. Add the cash from selling his current stuff, and he could step up to a 7800GT. In the end (after selling his current parts for say $250) he may come out spending the same on a 7800GT, NF4 & A64 3500+(around $550) as he would just buying a 7800GS($300).
March 1, 2006 9:06:04 PM

I hope he plans on doing the upgrade himself or with a friend. XP doesn't handle motherboard & CPU switches easily like win 95/98. If he goes to a shop you might as well stay agp and get the 6800GS or 7800GS.
March 1, 2006 9:27:50 PM

i was considering an x1600 512, probably the same one, until i saw it was ddr2... so i got an x700pro with ddr3... yea its still 128 bit interface but its still ddr3. 6800gs is probably ur best bet, ull find that for around 220. if u cant get that maybe try an x800gto, those are around 200 if u can still find them.
March 1, 2006 9:33:22 PM

from an ati fanboy stands... 7800gs easy in the long and short term. (an x800xt or higher cant hang with a 7800gs agp)
a b U Graphics card
March 1, 2006 9:35:37 PM

Newegg had a X1600pro 256MB AGP for $125 earlier today. Actually for the fun of it I have one on the way. Should be fun to bench against a 9800 pro. Not bad for the price, but seems a 6600GT would take it in most games.
March 2, 2006 3:20:43 AM

WOW! Thanks everyone for the feedback. A little more info.. The reason I'm still stuck on AGP is I refuse to be controlled by ‘The Man’ trying to force me to do new drugs like PCI-e & SLI, just kidding. There is no way on earth I'm going to pay for 2 video cards that is just looney tunes... SLI = GREED I've already spent so much time and effort, not to mention money... installing a water cooling system, fans, modular PSU, CCFL lights, UV reactive parts, etc in my case. I hand picked and installed every component even modified the case with my dremel. I really just want to run this PC until it no longer meets minimum requirements for the games that I play. Maybe I can squeeze another year or two out of it, maybe not.

So, I figure I will max out the available on board memory slots, and get the best AGP card that is offered. Besides, with the recent release of the 7800gs in AGP, I've found new hope that other card technologies will come back to AGP in the coming months. I really reserve the PC for MMO, RPG and RTS gaming which usually have a lower minimum requirement to begin with. I leave the shooter, racing and other high frame per second games to consoles, XBOX 360 and XBOX Live.. it's just easier for me that way. Besides, my system still rocks as far as processor, memory and peripheral support goes, IMHO. Also, I’m kind of attached to my IC7-MAX3, I actually really like it. Maybe in 2008 when Intel releases the P6 10Ghz, and Corsair is selling 10GB sticks, and the 10 Terabyte thumb drive is available, maybe then I will consider moving to a whole other platform for the 11-billion’th time…

I think it really boils down to, I’ve grown weary from trying to keep up with technology since the late 80’s. Dare I say, I’ve grown up a bit and my priorities have shifted to things like my job, car and house, oh and my wife… Geeze, I’ve turned this into a rant of sorts.. back on subject. I think I’m going to follow some of the advice previously given in this thread, but I will wait a bit longer to make any decisions. I’m interested to see, where AGP cards stand by x-mas of this year, and if any other companies or technologies will jump on the retro-stylin’ AGP bandwagon.

Peace and thanks again for the feedback & info!
Jason
March 2, 2006 3:24:43 AM

You also need to know the X1600 is a 128 bit memory bus and the 7800GS is a 256 bit bus, so you may find a stutter or twos difference....
It's like running a comparison between a Radeon X700Pro and an X800,
X700Pro is a really decent card but that slow 128 bit bus absolutely killed it for me. X800XL was a whole 'wow' up from that.
Yes, a 256 bit Memory bus is That important.
(a better core helps too)

7800GS for sure.
(Plus, it's the 7800, get real....nothing can touch it.)
If it wasn't for the fact that I'm in a comfy zone and satisfied with theX800XL I would've jumped on a BFG 7800GT OC about a month ago.
The PSU I'm using is adequate I'm told, but for some reason the XL keeps my attention.
(That ain't gotta nuff power blue screenin rebootin randomly driver problematical oops shulda known better feelin still haunts me)
March 2, 2006 4:20:56 AM

i feel the same way, kinda, i got the x700 pro because i had just bought my amd 3700+ and mobo for socket 754 and it only supported agp, i didnt want to do a mobo swap and reinstall all my stuff again just to get pci express, the reason i got an x700 over an x800 was becasue my parents wouldnt let me order online, so i went to compusa and saw an x700 for 129 bux so i figured, hey its about the same speed as a 6600gt and is 20 dollars less. (the 6600gt as compusa was 229) so i got the x700 not knowing it was a 128 bit bus, that still doenst change anything, its a decent card and runs css at high settings. i have been shown some information that scares me, my friend has an amd athlon 2800 2 gigs of geil memory and a 6800gt, he scores 5k in 3dmark05, i score 3.5k with 1gb corsair xms, x700pro and 3700+... it just doesnt seem right considering his fps in css is 30 and mines 100 at same settings, but ILL stop ranting. a friend actually offered to buy my x700 for 100 bux, i may actually do that so i can get a 7800gs, but this wont be for a while, 7800gs price is going to drop to 250 soon i bet, it was 400 when it was released then quickly dropped to 300... i hear it overclocks like crazy. so the choice is urs but id just overclock the 9700 (if u need to) and keep it for another 6 months or so and see if ati releases any faster agp cards, or just wait to see if the 7800 drops, 300 is still very steep for an agp card considering it will be the last before you HAVE to upgrade, unless ati comes out with a card (i really wish they would, instead of letting nvidia release a crippled 7800. but i digress, if ati doesnt release a new card i guess ill have to make the switch to pci express, but no way in hell am i giving up my 3700, i dont care that its socket 754 its plenty fast for at least 2 years of gaming... if u feel the need to upgrade, 7800gs is a sure bet, its going to be the fastest agp card, probably the last too since ati doesnt seem to care that nvidia wins in agp fastest card. whatever u do dont get the x1600, i think my x700 gets higher scores, 512 of ddr2 is slowwww, and like eveyr1 said u dont really use that much video memory, unless its doom on ultra, but that card wont see doom on ultra, probably not even on high. if u dont mind spending another 300 bux on ur computer then get that, its the best thing to do if ur not ready to buy a new mobo.
March 2, 2006 1:53:00 PM

The 512mb is use less go for the 7800 gs its way better. No current games use 512mb. The ATI card is also only 128 bit even if it is one that says 256 bit and that takes a huge performance hit.
March 2, 2006 2:42:04 PM

Quote:
WOW! Thanks everyone for the feedback. A little more info.. The reason I'm still stuck on AGP is I refuse to be controlled by ‘The Man’ trying to force me to do new drugs like PCI-e & SLI, just kidding. There is no way on earth I'm going to pay for 2 video cards that is just looney tunes... SLI = GREED I've already spent so much time and effort, not to mention money... installing a water cooling system, fans, modular PSU, CCFL lights, UV reactive parts, etc in my case. I hand picked and installed every component even modified the case with my dremel. I really just want to run this PC until it no longer meets minimum requirements for the games that I play. Maybe I can squeeze another year or two out of it, maybe not.



Preach on brother!!!! :D 


Quote:
So, I figure I will max out the available on board memory slots, and get the best AGP card that is offered. Besides, with the recent release of the 7800gs in AGP, I've found new hope that other card technologies will come back to AGP in the coming months. I really reserve the PC for MMO, RPG and RTS gaming which usually have a lower minimum requirement to begin with. I leave the shooter, racing and other high frame per second games to consoles, XBOX 360 and XBOX Live.. it's just easier for me that way. Besides, my system still rocks as far as processor, memory and peripheral support goes, IMHO. Also, I’m kind of attached to my IC7-MAX3, I actually really like it. Maybe in 2008 when Intel releases the P6 10Ghz, and Corsair is selling 10GB sticks, and the 10 Terabyte thumb drive is available, maybe then I will consider moving to a whole other platform for the 11-billion’th time…


I hear ya. I remember when everyone was making the move friom ISA to either VL or PCI.....and we all know how the VL people felt. :lol: 

As many white paper reports have said, PCIe while is potentialy a better video platform, the real world results have seen a marginal increase. Of couse the advantage of PCIe is the dual card set up, but spending gobs of $$$ to acheive insane frame rates seems a bit "looney" as you said.

Quote:

I think it really boils down to, I’ve grown weary from trying to keep up with technology since the late 80’s. Dare I say, I’ve grown up a bit and my priorities have shifted to things like my job, car and house, oh and my wife… Geeze, I’ve turned this into a rant of sorts.. back on subject. I think I’m going to follow some of the advice previously given in this thread, but I will wait a bit longer to make any decisions. I’m interested to see, where AGP cards stand by x-mas of this year, and if any other companies or technologies will jump on the retro-stylin’ AGP bandwagon.


Well now you can get the Atari 2600 collection with 20 games for only $40!! (that would have run you over $500 back in the day, right?
a b U Graphics card
March 2, 2006 3:04:05 PM

Quote:
The 512mb is use less go for the 7800 gs its way better. No current games use 512mb. The ATI card is also only 128 bit even if it is one that says 256 bit and that takes a huge performance hit.

Actually, that is no longer true. COD2 uses 512MB video RAM. Take a look at these links. In the first link, see how a 7800GTX 256MB renders lower quality textures at 1600x1200 compared to 1280x1024 or compared to a 512MB X800XL at 1600x1200. This shows that COD2 is using over 256MB vram. Then in the second link, look at the perfromance numbers and you see the much weaker X800XL is able to beat the X850XTpe and the 7800GTX throughout the COD2 benchmark settings. Only spot the 7800GTX looks to lead is 16x12, but thatis because it is rendering lower quality textures at that setting.

http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sect...

http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sect...
March 2, 2006 4:05:01 PM

Buy the 7800GS. Miles better than the X1600. IMO there will not be any newer AGP cards. PCI-e is the feature for the new vid cards. Untill the next new tech comes down the road. Heck I'm still using an old TI4200. But I'm waiting for Vista plus all the new dual-core and quad-core CPUs that are coming with 64 bit.
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