all in wonder cards

[root66]

Hello
I have just bought an all in wonder card from Microdirect.com which they list it as an X800VE card, but when i registered it on the ATI site with the serial number that came with the card, ATI call it just a VE card and not X800. The VE card is listed as a discontinued card, if this is the case then i would never have bought this card. I thought by buying an X800 card i would be upgrading from my old card which was a 128mb 9800 pro ATI card.
This X800VE card i have now is very low in performance to my old 9800 pro card when playing call of duty2.
So if anyone could tell me anything about this ALL IN WONDER X800VE 256MB DDR3 8X AGP card i would like to hear it
thankyou

 

[hergieburbur]

I have a 9800Pro AIW card, and I can tell you this: AIW cards are always clocked down and have lower performance levels than their standard counterparts. For Example, a 9800Pro will edge out a 9800 Pro AIW. the margins do tend to differ though.

I doubt this helps you, but thats just my experience.

 

[parlee]

never heard of VE... it should be a bit faster than the 9800... what are the clock speeds? and how many pipelines...

 

[root66]

sorry can't help you on that one but here is the web page where i bought it from
http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=12258&GroupID=1255

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

I have a 9800Pro AIW card, and I can tell you this: AIW cards are always clocked down and have lower performance levels than their standard counterparts.

I can tell you this, since the R8500 days that is not the case with the R8500 being the last crippled AIW. The R9800Pro has the same frequencies as the AIW9800Pro, the AIWX800XT the same, etc. Ask Crashman, he's tested a bunch of them. Even the AIWX1900 will be the same performance as a plain X1900.

]So if anyone could tell me anything about this ALL IN WONDER X800VE 256MB DDR3 8X AGP card i would like to hear it

As for the VE, well it's like Value-Edition.

The card you have is not discontinued, the card it's somehow being recognized as (plain Radeon VE) IS. It's about 4 years old. The X800VE may have similar characteristics to the X800SE, and then it's a crippled next gen card. It has some added features, but it's only got half the pipe and alot lest speed than a regular top X800 series card.

From what someone was saying in another forum the VE is appearing as a 4pipe card? But that doesn't seem right. Download Rivatuner or ATiTrayTools and see what your reports. But in any case the X80VE likely will never perform much beyond your R9800 because it's likely something similar to the X800SE.

 

[parlee]

4 seems right considering hes getting worse than his 9800pro... correct me if im wrong by 9800's are 8 pipelines? but they have lower clock speeds than the x800 series.. in the end the 9800 would beat out the x800

the x800ve has a 425 core speed, thats pretty fast, faster than my x700pro at stock speeds. it doesnt say the number of pipes or memory speed, i wonder if its faster than my x700..

 

[root66]

thanks TheGreatGrapeApe at last i am beginning to get some info on this card, i had contacted ATI but they don't seem to answer the question, i just get some auto mated thing.
Also i tried to send this card back to Microdirect but they would not except it, and it was a OEM card and not in a retail box, all i wanted to do was buy a better card than my 9800 pro, so i thought the X800 range was the next generation of ATI cards, but i think i have lost out here

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Yeah that would be sonsistent with what he's seeing, but man I've never heard of such a crippled card (3/4 of pipes dissabled).

The R9800 Pro and XTs are 8 pipes, the SEs are 4 pipes.

But if the VE is indeed 4 pipes then it's performance versus the R9800Pro is not surprising. If his VE is more along the lines of an SE then it might be some features that are enabled that is additionally slowing things down (the game recognizes it as an X800 series card and turns things up).

But really he should download Rivatuner to check and be sure.

 

[parlee]

is there a chance he could unlock the pipes? or do u think there lasercut or whatever...

also consider selling it on ebay to some fool i forget what u paid for it but im sure u could get at least 3/4 for it since its an agp x800 series some sucker will pay out the ass for it :twisted:

 

[hergieburbur]

I can tell you this, since the R8500 days that is not the case with the R8500 being the last crippled AIW. The R9800Pro has the same frequencies as the AIW9800Pro, the AIWX800XT the same, etc. Ask Crashman, he's tested a bunch of them. Even the AIWX1900 will be the same performance as a plain X1900.

Don't be so sure, my own tests on my box with my 9800 Pro AIW, and these and other benchmarks say otherwise. The AIWx1900 has slgithly slower memory as well (960 vs 1GHz). I did mention that the margins will differ, and they are generall very slim.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

is there a chance he could unlock the pipes? or do u think there lasercut or whatever...

Everything I saw was laser cut so you're pretty much screwed. I even saw one guy trying to flash BIOS, F'ed up his card, now can get it to work after flashing it back.

 

[parlee]

well then inlight of that id say www.ebay.com and dont post benchmarks or anything just say x800ve say the clock speeds and see how high it will get... start the bidding at like 50ish, i bet u can get 75-100 for it... selling computer stuff on ebay is pretty much people with no common sense giving u money for outdated technology (and a lot of money at that) just ask, damn i forget his name... hes got a robot for his avatar, his "wife", he sold his 6800ultra for like 450, enough to get an x1800xl... the 6800ultra was what? 500 when it came out, dropped 50 bux in over a year? NOTHING else in the computer world holds its value that well

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Don't be so sure, my own tests on my box with my 9800 Pro AIW, and these and other benchmarks say otherwise.

Umm, that review compares the AIWX1900 to an X1900XT and X1900XTX, not an AIWX1900 to a plain X1900.

The AIWx1900 has slgithly slower memory as well (960 vs 1GHz). I did mention that the margins will differ, and they are generall very slim.

But the whole point is to be comparing the same card. The nomenclature X1900 without any suffix matches the AIW specs, anything with an XL, XT, XTX or SE, etc. will be different. And the memory speed difference you are talking about is AIWX1800XL versus AIWX1900 not AIW vs non-AIW.

No AIW since the R8500 days has had different specs than the one it's being named with. The AIWX800XL has used a different chip as the VPU, but it's been clocked like an XL. Other than potential timing/latency differences in the memory the specs are the same.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

well then inlight of that id say www.ebay.com and dont post benchmarks or anything just say x800ve say the clock speeds and see how high it will get...

Exactly, as long as you don't lie, I'm all for selling to suckers.

just ask, damn i forget his name... hes got a robot for his avatar,

RichPLS

his "wife", he sold his 6800ultra for like 450, enough to get an x1800xl... the 6800ultra was what? 500 when it came out, dropped 50 bux in over a year? NOTHING else in the computer world holds its value that well

Yeah, and Cleeve sold his for almost the same price he bought his AIWX1800XL for.

Definitely roll it over while you can IMO.

 

[hergieburbur]

Umm, that review compares the AIWX1900 to an X1900XT and X1900XTX, not an AIWX1900 to a plain X1900.

Thats because their is no plain X1900 (at least not that I can find). There is the Crossfire Edition that is used for dual cards, and the AIW edition. Thats what I have been saying, its a lower end card than the standard, which in the case is the XT.

There is one other thing to consider, that AIW card use about the same tech to perform more tasks, which generally results in lower video performance than the stand alone card. As I said, I have seen this when comaring my AIW 9800Pro to a straight 9800 Pro. The difference is small, but there is a difference.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Umm, that review compares the AIWX1900 to an X1900XT and X1900XTX, not an AIWX1900 to a plain X1900.

Thats because their is no plain X1900 (at least not that I can find).

Well this is my point, nommenclature means ALOT! Here's the mention of releasing the plain X1900 a while back;
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29672

It's been in the roadmap for a while, and if people don't look at the suffixes then that's their issue. It's clear that it's not an XL or XT or XTX, so you're arguing X1900 generation, I'm arguing the actuall numbers+letter combinations based on the history of graphics cards (FX5600 had about 15+ variations, X800 seems to have about 10-12+). this is why so many of us who've been here for a while are so specific about 'plain GF6600' or 'plain X700'. (non-ultra/gtx or non-pro/xt is just too big a market nowadays) What hurt the originator of this thread. not that the card was an AIW X800, but that it was a VE.

Assuming that they are the same is different than ATi willfully misleading people the way some of the MFRs have with their 128bit 9800PROs. An AIW X1800XL = an X1800XL for chip/memory specs, the fact that the X1900 doesn't have anything after it should tell people it's not the same as the others.

There is the Crossfire Edition that is used for dual cards, and the AIW edition. Thats what I have been saying, its a lower end card than the standard, which in the case is the XT.

No what you've been saying, and incorrectly, is that because it's an AIW it is inherently inferior.

There is one other thing to consider, that AIW card use about the same tech to perform more tasks, which generally results in lower video performance than the stand alone card.

That doesn't make sense. The AIW is not using motion/vector adaptive DVD filtering and 3:2:2 detection while you're playing BF2, so that's a spurious assumption on your part. The ONLY consideration I will conceed is that due to the nature of the parts sharing the PCB, usually the AIW card is a poor overclocker/moder compared to their non-AIW equivalent. Their issues making the X800 series AIWs would tend to bear that idea out as well.

As I said, I have seen this when comaring my AIW 9800Pro to a straight 9800 Pro. The difference is small, but there is a difference.

And I think it's more a question of user error, not a big error, but an error.

 

[hergieburbur]

I understand all the nomenclature involved, and I will admit that I have not been able to find a plain X1900 to compare it to, mpr was I aware that there is one on the roadmap (my bad).

I still don't think that the AIW card I have performas as good as a plain 9800 pro. And I doubt it is user error, since I do know what I am doing, even if I have been mistaken about a few things here. I will admit that graphics card versions are not my strongpoint. but when it comes to install and configuration, I do know what I am doing.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

I still don't think that the AIW card I have performas as good as a plain 9800 pro. And I doubt it is user error, since I do know what I am doing, even if I have been mistaken about a few things here. I will admit that graphics card versions are not my strongpoint. but when it comes to install and configuration, I do know what I am doing.

OK, I did lay it on a little heavy there at the end, simply because you were so adamant with your finish too.

Here's what I think some of your differences are, applications running simultaneously. Deponding on your install you might have a lot of things chewing up system resources and memory.

However if the same VPU and Memory is clocked the same, then the pixel pushing power is equal, and every difference is relegated to the differences in crivers, system and such.

Like I said, the AIWs are somewhat OC limited, but there's no other difference for fill rate or bandwidth, and the cores are the same.
I would chalk your differences to the scientific concept of margin of error, we see the same when comparing MSI to ASUS to HIS to Sapphire when clocked at the same rate, general overall similarities, but with minor differences just based on that particular run. However I would be extremely surprised, and would've gripped about it alot had their been true crippling of the performance in the more modern AIW cards, considering I was an owner of the crippled AIW-R8500DV, and at the time didn't realize there was a difference until I got it home (but still played Morrowind better than my RageFuryPro or my AIW 128Pro PCI-16MB).

It would be nice to see Crash comment as he's owned alot of these, and I know he'd likely mention that the AIW R9600Pro/XT was actually quicker than the regular R9600Pro/XT running @ 325MHZ memory instead of 300mhz (memory modules were the same though).

Here's a good list of the specs, check for yourself (unfortunately no mention of the VE);

http://www.rojakpot.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=88

Upon looking at this, perhaps you're confusing the R9800Pro 128-DDR with the R9800Pro 256-DDRII? I could understand that, then there is a difference, and the stupid naming scheme (like the 6600DDR/DDR2 or GTX-256/512 or GTO/GTO2) is to blame.

 

[sojrner]

I own an AIW 9700pro and it is exactly the same as the "straight" 9700pro. Performs teh same as a friend of mine who has one. (I know quite a few ppl that jumped on the 9x00 bandwagon... those chips rocked) Looking on older benchmarks that tested them w/ similar procs it performs the same there as well. Reading up on the 9800pro/9800proAIW shows the same thing... I think grapeape is right, you are not really seeing the logic of what you are saying.

One thing ape: my 9700pro AIW oc's well (for cards of that gen), and I have 367/339 core/mem up from 325/310 stock right now. All done using simpe vantec replacement cooler and add-on heatsinks for memory. Not trying to get another argument going, but you can still oc an AIW.

pics of it here.

Got that card over 3 years ago and it rocks. I love it, but I am ordering x1900xt to build new system around. the 'ol 9700 has hit the performance wall with the latest games... finally.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Oh I know that they can. I was really talking about recently, and even then, just ask Cleeve they OC nicely. However going for the 'in the majority of cases....." type of comment. More of a caveat than a hard fast rule. Like I mentioned, it was the X800 series that exposed the difficulty of getting them running as optimally.

I'm not saying that they won't OC, just don't be surprised if because of all the voltage sensitive parts on the PCB that are different, that they don't OC as well as their counterparts. Just a warning, but like we usually say here, buy for stock hope for an overclock, nothin's guaranteed.

 

[sojrner]

ya, I see what you were getting at now. rock on.

 

[hergieburbur]

ya, I see what you were getting at now. rock on.

As far as OC, I can get my AIW 9800 Pro from 738/338 to 402/351. Modest OC, but it helps.

Grape, you may be right about my comparison, I may have been thinking about the fact that i could not get 256MB on my AIW at the time

 

[sojrner]

if that oc is with air cooling then for that gen of cards that is a pretty good one man... they just did not go much higher w/o water or something... I used ati tool for mine and got the max with it and lowered a bit more for longevity.

 

[hergieburbur]

It's ok, but at the rating, I get artifcats in newer games and had to down it to 382/349 to play Empire at War