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How can 25fps be only "playable"?

Last response: in CPUs
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what fps you find playable

Total: 77 votes (2 blank votes)

  • 45-60
  • 31 %
  • 30-45
  • 46 %
  • 20-30
  • 20 %
  • <20
  • 4 %
March 3, 2006 2:53:55 AM

I have been playing the first unreal tournament for a while on my crappy p2 366mhz, and figured that on a good day(yes my comp has good days, even minutes, it then decides it doesn't want to go as fast) i was getting over 30fps on the game on full. Today i found an option, can't remeber what it was, but it came up with this fps meter during gameplay with an average and stuff. Turns out i have been playing, again this is a good day, at around 10fps, up to 15 and as low as 5, and thinking it was going over 30fps. Now obviously you can tell i've never played at 60fps, or i wouldn't be playing the game that slow, but i have beaten the whole game on godlike, and found that if it feels like it, the game is very playablw, with some choppieness occaisonally. So i thought, "If i can play well like this, how come people complaine about 20fps, or 45 etc. Please tell me YOUR definition of playable, cause if i got 25fps, i'd probably be uber happy. :p  8)

I guess i'll put a poll to show a range of your standards.

More about : 25fps playable

March 3, 2006 2:57:47 AM

30 or higher is mine i play cod2 on near high with my xp 3200 and leadtek 6800 agp with over 30fps :D 
March 3, 2006 3:00:19 AM

Frames really only matter in Racing and Intense FPS's. I notice on UT2004, I'll get about 700 Frames per second w/ my SLI and it plays very good. If I turn on SLI 16x Anti-Aliasing, it drops me to 110 Frames Per Second but the game doesn't seem as smooth, even though it's double what the smoothest frame rate is supposed to be. I say anywhere from 20-40 on a slow paced game like Condemned: Criminal Origins (comin to PC soon! :D ) and 45-60 on faster games like CoD2, Racing, etc. is what I like.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
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March 3, 2006 3:11:27 AM

yeah but unreal is a fast paced game, especially the way i move, all eratic lol, and i can play it at 10fps and not have a problem. I'm not saying i can't tell the difference between 10 and 30, but lots of people say they just can't play a game under 50fps, wtf. :? :roll:
March 3, 2006 3:25:11 AM

Anything under 60 I don't like to play in, it's a noticable fps drop from my usual 100's, and bothers me while im trying to shoot people.
March 3, 2006 3:32:30 AM

did you vote, if not please do, cause i don't see a 45-60fps vote yet lol
March 3, 2006 3:47:51 AM

I said 30 to 45. The human eye CAN see more than 30FPS, however, most of us won't notice it, and don't have fast enough reflexes for it. I figure at around 45, you are safe enough that when you dip down, you don't hit a major snag.
March 3, 2006 4:28:50 AM

I'm not really sure how you can stand 10fps...

I get all bothered when a game dips below 30fps. I like to be totally immersed in the game i'm playing. When a game dips below 40fps even it just reminds me I'm playing a game.

And b4 anyone tells me the human eye can't see more than 30fps- go play FEAR and set the constant frame rate at 30fps. In gaming, you CAN see a difference between 30fps and 60fps.
March 3, 2006 4:31:13 AM

Well, your eye doesn't really SEE the frame difference, it just becomes much smoother in viewing, IMO.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 3, 2006 4:56:37 AM

Quote:
Well, your eye doesn't really SEE the frame difference, it just becomes much smoother in viewing, IMO.


well if it becomes smoother, that makes it noticeable to the eye..
March 3, 2006 5:01:12 AM

Quote:
Well, your eye doesn't really SEE the frame difference, it just becomes much smoother in viewing, IMO.


well if it becomes smoother, that makes it noticeable to the eye..

Noticing and Seeing are 2 different things (I know that sounds weird).

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 3, 2006 5:04:03 AM

You are right, but now you are talking about the brain more than the eye... :wink:
March 3, 2006 5:27:13 AM

I remember playing Ultima9 at 10fps. It seemed fine for that time and that kind of game. Then I think I got 60+ fps when I upgraded to a Geforce2.
For modern games, I find a frame limiter helps smooth things out - even when using a really over-powered graphic cards (like a GF 6800GT on San Andreas)
March 3, 2006 6:01:13 AM

it depends of the game.....racing 25-30 will do, fast fps like fear 40-85 will do just fine........generaly i think 60 fps are perfect for any game
i must admit the question is a little tricky...playable to the lower limit I presume
March 3, 2006 7:07:52 AM

I'm picky, but I generaly don't have a problem turning down settings, as I'm more interested in the screen Res than things like AA or shadows. Now, they make a game all pretty and all, but I'm more interested in being playable.

Of course, I upgraded my system to play Dungeon Siege II (well, it was the example that set it in motion) at better framerates, only to find that the game is capped at 30 FPS regardless :?
March 3, 2006 8:11:39 AM

need for speed most wanted ...you all know the story .. although there are only 40..50 fps (1028x1024 all settings high) it`s incredible playable
March 3, 2006 8:29:10 AM

congrats for your finding...i think it said it all
March 3, 2006 9:10:52 AM

For racing you need more fps. I could enable all options on NFS: MW but it was a little bit choppy and I couldnt drive comfortably so I disabled all options.

Usually 20-30 fps is allright for me. Thats the best fps I can get in BF2 with everything max. @ 1280x960 with my X300 SE :roll:
a b à CPUs
March 3, 2006 11:40:29 AM

"Well, your eye doesn't really SEE the frame difference,"

Many people claim the human eye can't see anything over flashed before tehm below 1/60 th of a sec...

Bull....!

In aircrew physiologival training, we were flashed images of a common playing card on a large screen for 1/1000th of a sec....

You can see it, but not quite read it....
March 3, 2006 1:02:56 PM

There's more too it than just what your eye can see, movement in certain FPS games is influenced by your FPS as well - Quake 3 for example. The more FPS, the longer/higher you can jump.
March 3, 2006 1:18:45 PM

There are certain "magic" FPS numbers in the Quake 3 engine that allow you to jump slightly higher and longer due to tiny numerical calculation errors in the code.

43, 76, 125, or 333
March 3, 2006 1:26:16 PM

it depends on how much quality i'm willing to sacrifice. ;p

if i tone down the graphics and realise that it looks crappy i'm willing to go as low as 20fps

:lol: 
March 3, 2006 1:29:34 PM

Agreed :) 

It all depends on what looks good to the individual. I am constantly telling people at work to change their monitor refresh rate from the default 60Hz because it is blindingly obvious to me (faint flickering) and they are usually unaware.

An interesting point .... look at a 60Hz screen out of the corner of your eye. You will notice the flickering much more as the corner of your eye is more sensitive to flicker 8O
March 3, 2006 1:31:39 PM

It really depends on the game. RPG's 30 fps is fine with me, FPS it's gotta be 50-60 or I'll drop settings. The important thing to realize is: is 25 fps playable for you? If it is, you're a fortunate minority, if not, welcome to the world of wishes being horses.
March 3, 2006 1:37:25 PM

One thing that can help on high frame rates (76-125), is adjusting the refresh Rate (Hz freq) on the monitor.

I do recall a game I played where I had the fps capped at 76. It was somewhat choppy. Then I figured out how to change the refresh rate on the display/monitor for the game.

Most (perhaps all) games will set the refresh rate at 60Hz. I set it to 85Hz, since the resolution was supported for 800x600, and the fps was smoother on 76 fps.

But since I'm on a CTR and not LCD, I'm guessing the best refresh rate is 75Hz. Not sure if a game would start the game by default of 60Hz.

As far as low fps.. well, kinda hard to play when its 10-30fps in my opinion. And it does depend on the type of game.
March 3, 2006 2:22:51 PM

ok I always strive for at least 50 or 60 fps no matter what but i will settle for 45 or so if it means cool eye candy.

Now I have a quick question that maybe someone could help me out on. The games that I play most are FEAR and UT2K4. on FEAR I get a low of 40 a high of 90 and an average of 55 to 60 fps but when I turn on vsync (60hz refresh for my monitor) it gets a high of 60 (that I want) but it kills the average to like 15fps what gives? Where on UT2K4 I turn on vsync and it keeps a solid 60fps all the time that I wanted plus it makes the mouse move awesomely smooth and I pown Malcolm on a one on one instagib death match with it on godlike, that’s what I want for FEAR. So why does vsync not work with FEAR the same way as it does with UT2K4?
Is it just because my rig can dominate UT2K4 graphics where FEAR can rip my computer a new one?
March 3, 2006 2:26:16 PM

From the FEAR support website:

Quote:
VSync: Vertical Synchronization (VSync) is the synchronization of your monitor and graphics card's abilities to draw a certain number of frames per second (or FPS) on the screen. This is referred to as the Refresh Rate, and is measured in frequency per second (Hz). Different monitors can achieve different refresh rates at various resolutions. For example a monitor which can provide 85Hz refresh rate at 1280x1024 means the screen is redrawing itself 85 times per second at this resolution. If Vertical Sync is enabled, your maximum FPS cannot exceed your monitor's refresh rate at your chosen resolution, and more importantly your overall FPS will be reduced. For this reason it is strongly recommended that you set VSync to off. The only down side is that if VSync is disabled, you may notice some image 'tearing'. This causes no damage to your monitor, but if really annoys you enable VSync.
March 3, 2006 2:56:05 PM

From what I remember the human eye is made up of two receptors cells Cones and Rods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_cell). There are more Cones in the center of the retina, and more Rods on the sides, or peripheral. this increases the color detail for objects when you look directly at them. In relation to FPS I think the Rods are more sensitive to refresh rates than Cones. Rods are also better at light sensitivity. I think Rods are on our peripheral to help primates respond faster to environment, or threats from the side, or on the peripheral of their vision.

If you look at a CRT that has it's refresh rate set close to 73-75 Hz then focus off to the side and try to look at it with your peripheral vision you can sense more of a flicker. I was born in 1971 so I have a little experience with turn table record players, I think the checker pattern on the side of the record players was to optically tune the speed of the record rotation. Was that because most people perceive refresh rate at near the speed?

As for game FPS I think it is an average, so if a game is averaging right at 30 FPS then there may be a few frames that are slower than the 30 FPS our eyes ability to perceive at, and you would notice the hesitation.

Other interesting thing about eyes is there is a dead spot just below the center of each eyes center. The dead spot is from were the optical nerve interfaces with the retina. Your brain extrapolates the information and makes you not perceive the dead spot. You can trick your self to prove the existence, and position of the dead spot. If you draw a black dot, on white paper maybe with a long line, or big cross hairs on it - close one eye then adjust the dot just below the center of your vision the dot may disappear under your dead spot, and all that you will notice is the white paper, or maybe the cross hairs or a solid line with out the dot.

Please note - There are probably inaccuracy in the way I remember these things.
March 3, 2006 3:14:04 PM

Hey I Think only Above 30FPS is Playable , i got 50~60 FPS in most Wanted but in some times when rainig and 4 car is in front of me , the frame rate drops to 20 or 25 , i can say that makes me crazy :x :? :cry: 
Still dont know why i cant play Most Wanted in Maximum Setting !! :cry: 
March 3, 2006 3:18:58 PM

Personally I try to strive for nothing less than 60FPS. I do play first person shooters often so for me, having 60 FPS leaves me nothing to blame my losses on but myself and not my gear. 45+ is acceptable to me, but 60 is very smooth. This is only after I've configured my setttings to acceptable levels.
March 3, 2006 3:51:44 PM

that wikipedia article is cool, good info.

two things:

I can notice any refresh rate below 85hz. It is very painful to me below 75. Sucks with eyes that sensitive, I love lcds for that reason (no refresh) but hate them becasue I can see ghosting where most ppl cant so I use crts mostly. This sensitivity translates over to fps in games. I enjoy anything above 75, but can deal with as low as 30 even though I notice it very much at that point. (need to upgrade to get above that problem for a while...) At a LAN or online in fps games I need it above 60 otherwise i cant hit the broad side of a barn. (not sure if i do much better with it that high either though :wink: )

In UT99, the reason you can beat it on godlike is BECAUSE you are running so slow. At 10 fps the computer is forced to run that slow which makes it easier for your brain/eyes to keep up. try it on a comp running above 60 frames and you will see it much harder. Online you would not be so lucky either as others would be running faster and for every frame you render they might render as many as 10 or more! so in between each frame your comp displays you could be fragged and not even no it until the next frame... That is a big reason to get the frames faster besides just the aesthetic factor.
March 4, 2006 10:40:41 AM

Quote:
yeah but unreal is a fast paced game, especially the way i move, all eratic lol, and i can play it at 10fps and not have a problem. I'm not saying i can't tell the difference between 10 and 30, but lots of people say they just can't play a game under 50fps, wtf. :? :roll:


Most games I really really really hate playing with anything under 60fps. 85fps steady is what I consider to be ideal, as it is the refresh rate I use and seems to be the threshold where things literally become perfectly smooth. I can notice stuttering at 55fps.
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