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This is why we build

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March 4, 2006 11:25:27 PM

I was just looking at some of Falcon Northwest's offerings, to see how pricey they are.

I configured the following Talon:
AMD X2 4400+
1GB DDR400
Dual 7800GTX (BFG)
2xSeagate 500GB 7200RPM SATA
Plextor 740A 16x DVD+-RW
Liteon 52x CD-RW

then I hoped over to newegg and put in the same components (as well as the only options of the Silverstone TJ04 case, 600W modular PS, and Asus A8N-32 SLI mobo), and came up with the following prices, without shipping for either:

Falcon: $4483.54
Newegg: $2895.90
Build-It-Yourself Savings: $1587.64

Turns out in the Newegg one you could build, the video cards (eVga) are actually a notch better (490/1300 over the BFG's 460/1300). And the eVga card is $490; the BFG on Newegg is $520; the BFG on Falcon's is $714 (difference between 2x7800GTX and 1x7800GTX). I was also amazed to see the price on HD. Newegg sells the 500GB Seagate for $320; Falcon charges $550. Newegg charges $60 for the Plextor burner; Falcon charges $130.

I've noticed some people claim that the amount of money you save by building isn't too great -- $1587? I'm not at the point where I can lose that much and not care....yet.

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March 4, 2006 11:32:25 PM

Exactly, while i understand that premium computer buildin companies will mark up their products, part of it may result from the fact that they might not be able to buy enough of a product to qualify for a reduced price, at times it seems ludicrous. I will build computers myself, and if you go to other places besides newegg you can save even more. There are many good points to these business, a warranty, saves you time, hopefully a solid machine, cool looking cases. But the price tag kind of negates this.
March 4, 2006 11:48:35 PM

Indeed as prozac26 and k2000k already stated building your own is the way to go! :D 

Granted their service and support is better than newegg ( as good as newegg is ) however the $1,500 savings is very substantial so you're better off building it yourself.

Besides building it yourself can be a great learning experience and very satisfying once you work out all the kinks.

You just need patience :D 
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March 5, 2006 12:03:23 AM

IBuyPower, is one of the only if not the only prebuilt computer company i know of that doesn't severly rip you off. I just for fun every now and then do what you just did, build a system at there site then go to newegg and build using same components. To my surprise there cost are right on pare with the newegg DIY price, give or take some dollars.

If i ever needed a system and couldn't be arsed to build it, i would buy it through them, they're fond of Asus and evga stuff.
March 5, 2006 1:41:07 AM

The Dells, Gateways and Microns myself, family and friends have bought, you talk to tech, deterimine prob, and they overnight you the part needed for replacement, you install it, and send back old one with prepaid mailer included with part.
That does save you a lot of hassle having one go to and instant part replacement you do not get on DIY builds.
But I prefer DIY for my own PC's.

Also, you left out prices for the OS and Office package if any.
March 5, 2006 1:45:26 AM

Quote:
The Dells, Gateways and Microns myself, family and friends have bought, you talk to tech, deterimine prob, and they overnight you the part needed for replacement, you install it, and send back old one with prepaid mailer included with part.
That does save you a lot of hassle having one go to and instant part replacement you do not get on DIY builds.
But I prefer DIY for my own PC's.

Also, you left out prices for the OS and Office package if any.


OS: Linux

Price: $0.00

Office Suite: OpenOffice.org

Price: $0.00

Not having to install M$ products? PRICELESS
a b B Homebuilt system
March 5, 2006 11:59:35 AM

"the BFG on Falcon's is $714 (difference between 2x7800GTX and 1x7800GTX)"

In all fairness, this sounds a bit more like FN is using GTX 512 variants with their build, which the last time I checked, are indeed an insane $700-$750 each....(quite ludicrous considering a single 1900XT is about $500 now, which is the option I'd choose in lieu of a pair of $490 video cards, BTW...)

(The GTX512 variants are in another league over the standard gtx cards, with mem speeds in the 1600-1700 Mhz range)

The 7900GT/GTX variants will be out soon (6 March?), and everyone is eager to se how they perform compared to current 7800GT/GTX/512 batch....
March 5, 2006 1:45:03 PM

Yeah, they are about the closest I have seen. I still did about $150 better for the same stuff. However, they are a lot closer to my price than Dell or Gateway was- they were about $400 more for equivalent stuff.

But there are two real reasons I build: one is that I enjoy doing it :D  and the second is that I run Linux and want out-of-the-box compatibility. The cost savings are nice and so is picking the parts yourself, but those are much lesser reasons than the first two.
March 5, 2006 1:47:12 PM

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that too. Not having to buy XP for your box makes it a lot cheaper and is probably accounts for most of my cost difference. (XP Pro is $300?! Damn!) All I need are a couple of CD-Rs or DVD-Rs and a fat Internet pipe, and I am good to go.
March 5, 2006 2:34:00 PM

XP PRO is 130$ brotha... just dont activate it until your done OC'in and RMA'in. Or just dont activate it at all 8)
March 5, 2006 10:51:30 PM

:D 

Oh yeah :D 

3000+ software packages for $0.00

That IS PRICELESS
March 5, 2006 10:57:25 PM

Microsoft Windows XP Home with SP2 - Retail is $199.95

Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2 - OEM is $146.95

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 - Retail $368.95

@newegg so it depends



Any OSS version of Linux is $0.00

OpenOffice.org is equivalent to M$ Office and is also $0.00

We are talking 100% LEGALLY FREE and open source here.

CentOS is the OSS version of RedHat enterprise which is competing with:

Microsoft Windows Server Enterprise 2003 R2 x64 1-8 CPU 25 Cal - OEM @ $2,695.95

supports as many CPUs as you want and doesn't have a 25 user limit :D 

Don't get me started on M$ SQL Server prices
March 5, 2006 11:48:27 PM

Having a pre-built computer can good at times though. They make excellent part junkyards, and low end models can be much cheaper than what we can build because of mass production. Buying an XPS/Falcon/Alienware is just insane; even then, you don't necessarily get the options of tweaking and OC'ing your stuff as much as you'd like.
March 6, 2006 1:05:37 AM

Quote:
Microsoft Windows XP Home with SP2 - Retail is $199.95

Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2 - OEM is $146.95

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 - Retail $368.95

@newegg so it depends



Any OSS version of Linux is $0.00

OpenOffice.org is equivalent to M$ Office and is also $0.00

We are talking 100% LEGALLY FREE and open source here.

CentOS is the OSS version of RedHat enterprise which is competing with:

Microsoft Windows Server Enterprise 2003 R2 x64 1-8 CPU 25 Cal - OEM @ $2,695.95

supports as many CPUs as you want and doesn't have a 25 user limit :D 

Don't get me started on M$ SQL Server prices


evidently you're not a gamer seeing as there's practically no games you can play on linux and this post is concerning a gaming pc builder .................

with that being said, Alienware, Falcon and etc do charge alot for their pcs over the parts, but you have to consider some of the other stuff they're including. the support, the assembly, the warrenty which is probably easier then trying to RMA something.

there is also the time it takes you to actually pick out the items and build your own machine. there is compatiblity and stablity of the hardware which is done for you in prebuilt machines. while this is small consolation it is still a part of the processes and afterall, they are a business and they need to make money someway especially if it's a niche market and their sales volume isnt as high as say dell or hp.

i dont really recommend people buy from Alienware, Falcon etc, but it's not like they're really wasting money if they want a system to play games and dont know how to build their own pc. it's a matter of how much you think the package is worth rather then how much the parts are worth.
just my 2 cent

PS there are people who have 6 figure salaries (or high 5 figures) that play games and what's another 1-2k to them?
March 6, 2006 1:40:21 AM

Quote:
Microsoft Windows XP Home with SP2 - Retail is $199.95

Microsoft Windows XP Professional With SP2 - OEM is $146.95

Microsoft Office Professional Edition 2003 - Retail $368.95

@newegg so it depends



Any OSS version of Linux is $0.00

OpenOffice.org is equivalent to M$ Office and is also $0.00

We are talking 100% LEGALLY FREE and open source here.

CentOS is the OSS version of RedHat enterprise which is competing with:

Microsoft Windows Server Enterprise 2003 R2 x64 1-8 CPU 25 Cal - OEM @ $2,695.95

supports as many CPUs as you want and doesn't have a 25 user limit :D 

Don't get me started on M$ SQL Server prices


evidently you're not a gamer seeing as there's practically no games you can play on linux and this post is concerning a gaming pc builder .................

with that being said, Alienware, Falcon and etc do charge alot for their pcs over the parts, but you have to consider some of the other stuff they're including. the support, the assembly, the warrenty which is probably easier then trying to RMA something.

there is also the time it takes you to actually pick out the items and build your own machine. there is compatiblity and stablity of the hardware which is done for you in prebuilt machines. while this is small consolation it is still a part of the processes and afterall, they are a business and they need to make money someway especially if it's a niche market and their sales volume isnt as high as say dell or hp.

i dont really recommend people buy from Alienware, Falcon etc, but it's not like they're really wasting money if they want a system to play games and dont know how to build their own pc. it's a matter of how much you think the package is worth rather then how much the parts are worth.
just my 2 cent

PS there are people who have 6 figure salaries (or high 5 figures) that play games and what's another 1-2k to them?

Yeah who the hell needs 2000 bucks anyway..
Also, Linux can run Windoze games. Don't even get Linux_0 started, he will pwn you.
March 6, 2006 2:28:38 AM

3000? You must just be counting the install disks. There are about 20,000 in all of the Debian repositiories, probably more if you add a bunch of third-party ones.
March 6, 2006 2:33:41 AM

Um in response to the "you forgot about software", companies usually do not include software anymore, if they do, they are trial versions like 30 days. It is a sad reality, but I believe someday soon, pre-made computers will come with a 15-30 trial of Windows or equivalent OS.
March 6, 2006 2:34:44 AM

Quote:
3000? You must just be counting the install disks. There are about 20,000 in all of the Debian repositiories, probably more if you add a bunch of third-party ones.


What the hell are you talking about?
March 6, 2006 3:22:50 AM

Quote:
The Dells, Gateways and Microns myself, family and friends have bought, you talk to tech, deterimine prob, and they overnight you the part needed for replacement, you install it, and send back old one with prepaid mailer included with part.
That does save you a lot of hassle having one go to and instant part replacement you do not get on DIY builds.
But I prefer DIY for my own PC's.

Also, you left out prices for the OS and Office package if any.


Welcome to why I don't build computers for my family/friends anymore. For what they do, the Dells are good enough and I don't have to deal with the problems. Unless I can grandfather some parts to them, then I might consider it (like I'm going to do for my dad soon, plus I get the chance to go to an AMD64/PCI-E/nV7xxx setup).
March 6, 2006 5:00:20 AM

Quote:
3000? You must just be counting the install disks. There are about 20,000 in all of the Debian repositiories, probably more if you add a bunch of third-party ones.



I was :-D

Heck the Knoppix DVD has over 2700 :D 

FC4 has over 1800 not including extras.

We're probably talking over 40,000 for Linux alone not counting other open source operating systems and open source software for closed source OSes.
March 6, 2006 2:53:27 PM

Quote:

Yeah who the hell needs 2000 bucks anyway..
Also, Linux can run Windoze games. Don't even get Linux_0 started, he will pwn you.


and what windows games does linux runs? Age of Empire III? Civilization IV? F.E.A.R.? please give system and specs........
any resource intensive game will probably not even load on a WINE (which is what i presume what you meant by 'linux can run Windoze games') or the performance penalty probably isnt even worth running it in linux.
as a note, does SLI even work on Linux? you can spend $2500 on hardware but you would run games in Linux rather then at least have a dual boot system?????
March 7, 2006 1:00:59 AM

Quote:

Yeah who the hell needs 2000 bucks anyway..
Also, Linux can run Windoze games. Don't even get Linux_0 started, he will pwn you.


and what windows games does linux runs? Age of Empire III? Civilization IV? F.E.A.R.? please give system and specs........
any resource intensive game will probably not even load on a WINE (which is what i presume what you meant by 'linux can run Windoze games') or the performance penalty probably isnt even worth running it in linux.
as a note, does SLI even work on Linux? you can spend $2500 on hardware but you would run games in Linux rather then at least have a dual boot system?????



CIV IV http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?game_id...

BF2 http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?game_id...

Guild Wars http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?game_id...

Steam based games http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?game_id...

Black and White http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?game_id...

Anarchy online http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?game_id...

Baldur's Gate 2 http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?game_id...

FarCry http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?game_id...

and more


Linux DOES support SLI :D  Although to be quite honest SLI is not that great you're paying 2x more for about 30% more performance (not a Linux problem - that's an SLI problem).


With good / proper drivers Linux can be as fast or faster than windows.


Many OpenGL games also exist in native Linux versions and of course those will work a LOT better.


Obviously playing Windows games on Linux does not always work - it is a technically very difficult problem and M$ makes it as difficult as they can.

But Linux certainly has GAME :D 
March 7, 2006 2:26:20 AM

wow that certainly is interesting and i dont mean that sarcastically.
and i definitely see linux as a good free OS solution, but this doesnt mean people should get it for games. if your only a moderate or casual gamer, then i guess cedega is a good solution but for more serious gamers and the hardcore gamers(the ones that get SLI and you know who you are), then they wouldnt run linux to play games (most of those games have a playablity of 3/5 stars). they would at least dual boot or run just windows, which legally cost a few hundred dollars.
either way im going to read up on cedega, it really sounds interesting
March 7, 2006 3:00:50 AM

I have noticed the exact same myself, from newegg i can configure all of the highest end parts (monitors not included) for around $4000 while the same from a OEM would go for around $8000. Although the advantadge to many of the OEMs is they build cool cases and such, but still isnt worth the money in my eyes.
I love how the topic goes from what was originally posted to talking about linux.
March 7, 2006 4:05:03 AM

I just completed a very nice custom box for just over $2000 (including everything: speakers, kvm, fans, wires, new surge protector, etc.). I threw in Windows just so I could see how the other 90% lives, but of all the components that alone could be considered a foolish waste of money: The five-CD SUSE system which I will use cost me the price of five blank CD-Rs; the one-CD Microsoft system which I'll use hardly at all cost over $200 even at newegg's prices.
All of us have cobbled together nice systems at good prices because hardware is being manufactured with standardized form factors and documentation sufficient to allow a builder to assess compatibility issues. That wasn't always the case, but it is so now, and it is becoming the case with software. True, the most exciting games can't be run on Linux right now, but more and more will be as software developers realize how much more pleasant their lives can be if they don't have to beg MS for permission to see whatever bits of the operating system code they are deemed worthy to behold.
So get on board and download a Knoppix disk - It's free, and it's the future.
!