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Can IDF relight Intel's fire?

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March 5, 2006 11:10:49 PM

It's the time of the year again. Intel will host its Spring Developer Forum this week. Needless to say, Tom's Hardware and TG Daily will be on location to see the first Meroms, Conroes and Woodcrests first-hand.

We'll be covering the event in detail and hope that you guys check back frequently for news and our reports; but we also hope that there will be a lively discussion about the new facts coming out of IDF.

We'll be checking back on your discussions and do our best to cover your questions in our articles.

To kick it off - what are your expectations in the new architecture? Performance? Power consumption? New features? Besting AMD?

Looking forward to your comments!

More about : idf relight intel fire

March 5, 2006 11:17:17 PM

Quote:
It's the time of the year again. Intel will host its Spring Developer Forum this week. Needless to say, Tom's Hardware and TG Daily will be on location to see the first Meroms, Conroes and Woodcrests first-hand.

We'll be covering the event in detail and hope that you guys check back frequently for news and our reports; but we also hope that there will be a lively discussion about the new facts coming out of IDF.

We'll be checking back on your discussions and do our best to cover your questions in our articles.

To kick it off - what are your expectations in the new architecture? Performance? Power consumption? New features? Besting AMD?

Looking forward to your comments!


Great...another fanboy thread....here we go again

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 5, 2006 11:20:11 PM

We are not really interested in a fan boy discussion.

We believe that we will hear significant news at IDF - news that will influence the computer system we will buy in the not too distant future.

We are simply interested in what you guys are interested in.
Related resources
March 5, 2006 11:23:06 PM

Quote:
We are not really interested in a fan boy discussion.

We believe that we will hear significant news at IDF - news that will influence the computer system we will buy in the not too distant future.

We are simply interested in what you guys are interested in.


lol if you really think this thread won't degrade into a fanboy thread, you're in for a surprise. I think we've already said in over 10 threads our thoughts on Conroe and what not, this will just be an extension of the digressed fanboyism in those threads.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 5, 2006 11:26:48 PM

Go AMD! :lol: 
March 5, 2006 11:34:58 PM

Its hard to say what will happen really. One thing I think we can all look forward to is the next chip line coming out from Intel, just has to be better which in its own merit, says alot for Intel.

If they can cut the TDP to what they say and yet, still produce performance specs that even come close to todays AMD, then that's still better than the P4s.

Intel still has some dark shadows to answer to as well with the whole anti-trust thing and what not. That will IMO, hurt them a bit (maybe not a lot) in the long run especially if they don't quit bullying. Enough about that though.

We can say what we want, I'm going to be as optimistic as I can be while they roll out the new lineup. As I've always said, we won't know till they arrive how they're going to perform.
March 5, 2006 11:43:37 PM

Quote:
.....As I've always said, we won't know till they arrive how they're going to perform.
So true. I don't know why people have a problem with Prescotts I like mine and they overclock like a beast if you have good enough cooling.
March 6, 2006 2:20:39 PM

I realy would like to see some benchies, but they may not come form the IDF. I've seen a 2.9ghz Yonah on small air cooler edge out a FX60 at 3.2ghz on vapochill, so I know for a fact Conroe has higher IPC than X2. Intel can just sit happy for now, and AMD must get to work again. AMD needs more than just speed bumps, it needs new designs. After a few years of nothing new but dual core, maybe CPUs will catch up with GPUs.
March 6, 2006 3:10:42 PM

Conroe will certainly match any AMD X2/FX if not beat it. And, since it will probably have a slight edge on clock per clock we can expect a lot from the XE 3.3 that will arrive later this year or at the begining of the new one.
Of course i need some benchmarks to corectly evaluate the Conroe but as it is now looking it is one step to amazing.
And if i remember corectly a 2.4 ghz Conroe with 4 mb L2 cache will be priced at ~300$. That's a very good price.
Merom is an improvement over Core Duo(and by that time Windows will be done with the leakage fixing patch) but since nothing AMD has matches it i guess we can say Intel will continue to dominate.

AMD are at last taking the DDR2 plunge. That might improve a little but it will also cost them a lot of time. AMD will continue to do well mainly because of the opteron that currently is the best server AND desktop CPU but Intel will slowly regain marketshare.
BTW I don't need to mention about energy consumption or heat,no? At those chapters Intel will be way ahead.
March 6, 2006 3:45:57 PM

i think intel it's not enjoyng AMD stealing ther marketshare so it has to come on top wich is good for us better processors from both parts better tdp and better achitectures wich is good for us and then after intel presents there new beast there it comes AMD presenting theirs and so on and so on , so this is on a loop both companies produce great chips and whe anre hungry to see them :p 
March 6, 2006 4:28:48 PM

There are always fanboys/clueless ones.
Makes me wonder why Intel had "great losses in the mobile sector"...
March 6, 2006 4:42:26 PM

Conroe will be a major step up for Intel, hopefully. No one knows if it will surpass AM2, but it's shaping up to be an exciting year.
March 6, 2006 4:45:31 PM

I'm not sure about that either and that's one of the reasons why I found that article so interesting. I always thought that Intel has such a stronghold of the mobile market. Of course, that article could be biased towards AMD and i'm not going to rule that out.

We'll have to see if other sites report the same thing or not. If they do, chances are those facts are all true. AMD is really coming on strong right now and most consumers are really figuring out what works and what doesn't.
March 6, 2006 5:07:27 PM

AM2. . . same logical device + DDR2

whoopie :roll:
March 6, 2006 5:12:26 PM

Lets not forget that most people are dumb and get easily influenced by anyone or anything. Just look at the mobile forum. There is one user spamming AMD bias that can easily lead to more people getting AMD.
And that's the main reason that Intel Xeons are still being sold. People don't analyse hard enough their next purchase.
For laptops the corect decision is go for Intel PERIOD. 64 bit is just a pretext not going for the Duo.

Really,if all people were smart, AMD would never have made it to this stage.
With all the AMD hype around people would think that AMD leads at everything which is far from the truth. The only place they truly lead is the server market.
Now AMD has a chance to make money but things will change pretty soon with the new chips. (when Intel is working hard results are always seen)
March 6, 2006 5:38:58 PM

Quote:
AM2. . . same logical device + DDR2

whoopie :roll:


You ...Fanboy + Ignorance

Whoopie :roll:

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 6, 2006 6:23:04 PM

I sure hope that the new intels are really great and stop all over the AMD's. Because if they do then AMD will have to really improve their chip, and we as the customers get to benefit from it. I am really happy that AMD had a decent chip back when the original pentium came out, otherwise our processors would suck as bad as the operating system.
Competition is a great thing for the customer.
March 6, 2006 6:26:16 PM

Quote:
Lets not forget that most people are dumb and get easily influenced by anyone or anything. Just look at the mobile forum. There is one user spamming AMD bias that can easily lead to more people getting AMD.
And that's the main reason that Intel Xeons are still being sold. People don't analyse hard enough their next purchase.
For laptops the corect decision is go for Intel PERIOD. 64 bit is just a pretext not going for the Duo.

Really,if all people were smart, AMD would never have made it to this stage.
With all the AMD hype around people would think that AMD leads at everything which is far from the truth. The only place they truly lead is the server market.
Now AMD has a chance to make money but things will change pretty soon with the new chips. (when Intel is working hard results are always seen)


Know what else is far from the truth? Your knowledge on anything computer related.

Grab a popsicle with FUGGER and watch some cartoons.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 6, 2006 7:08:25 PM

He's got a point though, Intel mostly performs better on mobile platforms. Turion isn't bad, just that Centrino is better for the most part...
March 6, 2006 7:12:27 PM

Quote:
He's got a point though, Intel mostly performs better on mobile platforms. Turion isn't bad, just that Centrino is better for the most part...


The reason Turion 64 performs awful is it is currently only on Single Channel, Socket 754. Turion X2's on Socket S1 (638 Pins w/ DDR2 Dual Channel) will bring the Mobile Performance Crown back to AMD, or at least lessen the gap Centrino has on the Mobile Market.

If AMD can make 25w and 35w 2GHz+ Opteron 64 CPU's, imagine what they can do for Mobile.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 6, 2006 7:18:31 PM

But of course, Mad Mod &^* crapping around

AMD now can be considered a desease that affects brains(of people who have them) and makes people see in AMD the Holy Grail or something like that.
so you are either suffering from this syndrome or you're plain brainless.
Seriously there is no need to complain about facts(and especially it's plain silly quoting every post that doesn't bash Intel). Turion dual core is not here,core duo tops everything on the market right now. And you're a ^*( fanboy that has no rival when it comes to praising a brand.
People are missinformed,like it or not. After a AMD 64 bit succes people would think that the lappy CPU is just as good which it isn't. And Xeons are still bought in quite large numbers because people got used to Intel lead.

Now go play with your AMD toys. And do not swallow them, those parts may be toxic and dangerous especially when OC at increased voltages.
March 6, 2006 7:24:25 PM

I'm pret-ty sure that's using an Athlon, not a Turion...
March 6, 2006 7:30:30 PM

yea i kinda liked the part where they comapred this new technology to the pentium III. way to go intel just take a step backwards. but hey if it works use it.
March 6, 2006 7:45:26 PM

Quote:
But of course, Mad Mod &^* crapping around

AMD now can be considered a desease that affects brains(of people who have them) and makes people see in AMD the Holy Grail or something like that.
so you are either suffering from this syndrome or you're plain brainless.
Seriously there is no need to complain about facts(and especially it's plain silly quoting every post that doesn't bash Intel). Turion dual core is not here,core duo tops everything on the market right now. And you're a ^*( fanboy that has no rival when it comes to praising a brand.
People are missinformed,like it or not. After a AMD 64 bit succes people would think that the lappy CPU is just as good which it isn't. And Xeons are still bought in quite large numbers because people got used to Intel lead.

Now go play with your AMD toys. And do not swallow them, those parts may be toxic and dangerous especially when OC at increased voltages.
hey dont you have intelitis the disease which makes you deny reality and accept fantasy such as intel beating amd in performance or thinking your prescott runs colder than a clawhammer
March 6, 2006 7:48:19 PM

Quote:
But of course, Mad Mod &^* crapping around

AMD now can be considered a desease that affects brains(of people who have them) and makes people see in AMD the Holy Grail or something like that.
so you are either suffering from this syndrome or you're plain brainless.
Seriously there is no need to complain about facts(and especially it's plain silly quoting every post that doesn't bash Intel). Turion dual core is not here,core duo tops everything on the market right now. And you're a ^*( fanboy that has no rival when it comes to praising a brand.
People are missinformed,like it or not. After a AMD 64 bit succes people would think that the lappy CPU is just as good which it isn't. And Xeons are still bought in quite large numbers because people got used to Intel lead.

Now go play with your AMD toys. And do not swallow them, those parts may be toxic and dangerous especially when OC at increased voltages.


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~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 6, 2006 7:54:00 PM

can i vote twice and mike read my above post do you think he has the disease?
March 6, 2006 11:25:42 PM

If this interview with Intel's Paul Otellini is a preview of IDF we will find out nothing.

Oh how I want to see benchies...
edit_
:arrow: ANY good forum would ban that last poster (so sorry for the off-topic.)
March 7, 2006 1:15:02 AM

Quote:
yea i kinda liked the part where they comapred this new technology to the pentium III. way to go intel just take a step backwards. but hey if it works use it.

I guess you don't remember, but P4 was seen as a step backwards even then. Tualatin kicked all kinds of ass.

Intel realised their folly... now if only someone would spend some cash redeveloping the MPC7447. That's an architecture to die for...
March 7, 2006 3:53:03 AM

FUGGER: 5
sepheronx: 1
CompGeek: 2
Ycon: 0
March 7, 2006 4:07:03 AM

Quote:
FUGGER: 5
sepheronx: 1
CompGeek: 2
Ycon: 0


FUGGER: 5
sepheronx: 1
CompGeek: 2
Ycon: 0
Apache_Lives: 3
March 7, 2006 4:51:34 AM

Quote:
It's the time of the year again. Intel will host its Spring Developer Forum this week. Needless to say, Tom's Hardware and TG Daily will be on location to see the first Meroms, Conroes and Woodcrests first-hand.

We'll be covering the event in detail and hope that you guys check back frequently for news and our reports; but we also hope that there will be a lively discussion about the new facts coming out of IDF.

We'll be checking back on your discussions and do our best to cover your questions in our articles.

To kick it off - what are your expectations in the new architecture? Performance? Power consumption? New features? Besting AMD?

Looking forward to your comments!


One simple word to your headline....."NO" not gonna happen for at least a year or longer...
March 7, 2006 5:07:17 AM

Just a slight difference of opinion on marketshare
Intel is loosing marketshare on P4 laptops, faster than they are picking them up on dothans.
Most of that is going to A64s rather than turions.
March 7, 2006 5:14:05 AM

wow MadmodMike your the fanboy here, since the thread is about intel convention, you are jumping to the part saying "fanboyims" is that because there is no AMD in the name? I bet if it said AMD convension, you would jump up and down and finaly get your thumb outa your ass
March 7, 2006 5:44:38 AM

Quote:
wow MadmodMike your the fanboy here, since the thread is about intel convention, you are jumping to the part saying "fanboyims" is that because there is no AMD in the name? I bet if it said AMD convension, you would jump up and down and finaly get your thumb outa your ass


FUGGER: 6
sepheronx: 2
CompGeek: 2
Ycon: 0
Apache_Lives: 4
ak47is1337: 3

Don't worry, you can still win!

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 7, 2006 12:50:10 PM

Is there something in the rules about not haveing any good Intel threads here?
March 7, 2006 2:03:50 PM

What are you doing,wasting time again? Your fanboyism AND lack of pure ration make you resort to such silly posts. Continueing to argue with you would be a waste on my side since you're clearly not thinking with your head. Your so called knowlage(which i never denied) on computers means nothing if you can't make use of it when needed. And since your head is so much filled with facts taken from here and there you can't actually understand/agree with some basic things that have very little connection to computers.

You probably don't understand the basic advantage of having a monopoly in the market. It's wrong to say AMD vs Intel is similary to Nvidia vs ATI. AMD hasn't reached that level (yet). If Conroe succeds AMD will remain silent. Intel has been acting like a leading force and only reacts when the competition has a competitive/better product. AMD may win here and there and might gain market share but unless problems occur in the end Intel will be taking the advantage back. So i'm not surprised really if AMD reaches 30% by the end of the year because after
that Intel will come up with a better product and regain lost market share.
Changes can and will happen but for now lets stick to our maths and knowlage of probability. AMDs chances are basically proportional to its size. To this a 10% will be added(and removed from Intel's chances) since AMD is currently leading. BUT still Intel has better odds in regaining market share,than AMD in wining. Nvidia and ATI are evenly matched, so there are big chances that things won't change in the following years.

So,as always stick to the better product or dont get anything at all. Following those advices is wise. I for one prefer waiting. Yes i'm a fanboy so? I don't go around praising the Prescot as you do with the Turion( stupid name for stupid product). In fact not getting anything is probably more beneficial really cause that would make you take a break from the computer. BUT that's another story...

And if we draw a line and compare any of the Int. fanboy posts to yours or to 9 inche's the conclusion would be that while Intel fanboys admit that AMD is overall better in many areas you bash Intel at every chapter. So i ask you this,is Intel that bad really or are you just imagining things?

You say i'm surprising you with fanboyism bias? Well i say you don't surprise me with anything since every post shows AMD sympathy or shall i call it fanatism. Your posts are so repetitive. Why don't you post "Intel bad AMD good" so people don't have to get lost in those lines of bias. Because one way or another that's the only conclusion you'll be getting to.

I admit,i'm an Intel fanboy that loves his chip. But i wouldn't go as far as saying that Intel is better and "go Intel " in every post. You're a AMD fanboy, you don't admit it/realise it(that makes you much worse) and you have no sense most of the times.

You proved your real worth and i'd agree of being wrong in everything i said just to make you shut up. Jesus what's this world becoming to? The Terminator scenario is not far from the truth,but there won't be robots,there will be people acting like them.
March 7, 2006 2:12:39 PM

Quote:
Is there something in the rules about not haveing any good Intel threads here?

There's no such thing as a "good" intel thread here. :wink:

Quote:
Intel has been acting like a leading force and only reacts when the competition has a competitive/better product.

The funniest thing of your satement is that Intel have being doing so since 5 years ago. :lol: 

Quote:
So i'm not surprised really if AMD reaches 30% by the end of the year because after
that Intel will come up with a better product and regain lost market share.

Where's that "wonderful" product that will save Intel's @ss?
Is it Conroe? :lol: 


sepheronx: 2
CompGeek: 3
Ycon: 0
Apache_Lives: 4
ak47is1337: 3
March 7, 2006 2:28:29 PM

Tell me please tell me when AMD was not only on par but superior to a Intel chip except now? I watched benchmarks from PC magazines and sites regulary but Intel always was considered better performing at the expense of more money.
Now AMD has jumped ahead with a good series of products and that will finally wake Intel up from hibernation. A lot of time has passed since the last time Intel had taken something seriously. AMD leading in performance in the server market is a good thing in the long term. Intel will start working hard to regain. Really,if it weren't for AMDs leap ahead these 2 years would have been wasted for nothing due to a dead market.
And Intel's response will come. Will it be Conroe,will it be Woodcrest, that we will find out. It's a matter of time really. Now will they fail,only time will tell. For now i'm keeping my faith in them.
March 7, 2006 2:39:24 PM

Quote:
For now i'm keeping my faith in them.

Be careful not to be disappointed.
March 7, 2006 2:58:02 PM

As i said before i am a fanboy thus i am taking the plunge waiting for a good Intel chip. If it doesn't come i may as well reconsider.
March 7, 2006 3:19:05 PM

Quote:
AM2. . . same logical device + DDR2

whoopie :roll:


You ...Fanboy + Ignorance

Whoopie :roll:

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time

As far as we know right now, the AM2 CPU's will not differ that greatly from current Venice, San Diego, etcetera CPU's. Nobody knows for sure yet, but chances are great that the speed of a 3200+ Venice and 3200+ AM2 will be quite similar, because I doubt we will see 3.0GHz speed just because of the new socket. Now, if the case is that the chip will not generate anymore heat, then the newly designed socket will be a very odd step for AMD to take.

http://techgage.com/review.php?id=4245

It was already clear the new CPU would require DDR2 memory, but it appears AMD is also using this architecture change to upgrade the current mounting scheme for Athlon 64 heatsink/fans. those moving to AM2 will at a minimum need a new processor for a new Socket 940, new DDR2 memory to replace existing DDR memory for Athlon 64, and a new or revised heatsink/fan cooling solution.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=268...


Wow.
DDR2 on the exact same logical device. . . AND a new HSF?!?! OMFG!
:roll:
March 7, 2006 3:24:33 PM

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=90...
Core Duo @ 2.928Ghz on Air vs FX60 @ 3.379Ghz on Vapochill....

Have a look, Intel wins. Conroe will only be better. :!:
I hope the IDF has something to for enthusiasts, not just the major system biulders.

ATi has retaken the lead in graphic, so Intel could just as easy beat AMD.
March 7, 2006 3:24:33 PM

Quote:
As i said before i am a fanboy thus i am taking the plunge waiting for a good Intel chip. If it doesn't come i may as well reconsider.


Don't worry about it man, I've seen the NGMA in action. They're quick as all get out. Couple up with 2 gigs of NAND flash in "instant-on appliance mode" (we gotta come up with a better name than that) and its a damned zippy system. We didnt have any decent vid cards laying around the lab, so i was forced to play DoD:S on the integrated extreme graphics system D= !
March 7, 2006 3:39:23 PM

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...
March 7, 2006 3:42:35 PM

Yeah that basically proves it but still AMD fanboys have a point when they say that you can't accurately estimate future DDR2's impact on performance or better cache(L3 cache is impressive)
IMHO Conroe will top AMD but again that's IMHO so AMD fanboy's do not take offense due to a simple opinion.
March 7, 2006 3:48:22 PM

BTW, gaming on an OC-198 is the only way to go =D
March 7, 2006 5:51:45 PM

Quote:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=90...
Core Duo @ 2.928Ghz on Air vs FX60 @ 3.379Ghz on Vapochill....

Have a look, Intel wins. Conroe will only be better. :!:
I hope the IDF has something to for enthusiasts, not just the major system biulders.

ATi has retaken the lead in graphic, so Intel could just as easy beat AMD.


2 things wrong with that.

1) The Memory Speed on the A64 is 30MHz less (60MHz Effective) and Yonah beats by a small margin with a 60MHz more on memory, that doesn't seem to much to me

2) 3379MHz is fake. There is no combination of 194 x anything = 3379, the closest is 17.5 which is 3395MHz.

~~Mad Mod Mike, pimpin' the world 1 rig at a time
March 7, 2006 6:31:01 PM

Quote:
BTW, gaming on an OC-198 is the only way to go =D


Its a OC-192 by the way ;)  And I prefer a LAN party with no routers and a Cisco 3750 switch with the server and computers all running Gig connections.

I wish I didn't have to read all this AMD/Intel stuff. The Subject is about the IDF not is AMD better then Intel. I am a AMD Fanboy AND a Intel Fanboy...or better yet just a geek that loves puters and enjoys gaming. Intel is onto something this year FINALLY. It seems they are letting the Techs make some calls and not the Marketing people that only care about the MHZ race. Now that those times are past and people care about how the chips perform I think we are in for some great things this year from BOTH camps. You can deny that a die shrink to 65nm on 300mm wafers is going to put Intel into a good position to make some fast, cool, and cheap (if they choose to) chips.

I can't wait to see the Benchmarks from both camps later this summer/fall when all the new goodies come out.
!