Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Really BAD tom's article, Take TWO

Last response: in CPUs
Share
March 6, 2006 5:25:58 PM

Ok, so now apparently THG is now the soapbox for the THG authors that don't get enough hits on their BLOG.

Enter article #2: http://www.mobilityguru.com/2006/03/05/who_designed_thi...

This provides no real information of value other than the author's personal (and obviously biased) opinion of the dv4000. It provides no real comparison of products, and a great (and useless) personal opinion of how the government works within his friend's workplace.

Really the bottom line is that to the casual reader, this article singes the dv4000, when in reality the dv4000 is a great notebook. The irony is that this author stated that this was a "very good notebook computer" in a previous article, with the weight of the notebook being slightly above standards. Those standards being (and let me know of anyone else has a problem with this): 'Over 4 to 6.5 lbs (1.8 to 2.9 kg) or less'. I guess they can weigh anything. The author goes from calling the notebook a "very good notebook computer" in one article to "an 11 pound pencil." With a title like that, what conclusion is a person to draw about that notebook? I know the first thing I did was open the article and look at the make and model number.

Technical people all too often have a "Holier than thou" attitude and think they can do everything better than everyone else. This is a fine example, with phrases such as, "I've worked with a number of smart non-profit agencies designing all kinds of IT systems that work," and "When I used to work as an IT manager in the business world..." It’s nice that he thinks he could have done a better job then the government. Why do I care? Who do THG readers care?

Just to be a devil’s advocate, there are a lot of very good reasons why that office would have gone with that particular notebook. Instead of thinking and considering viewpoints other than his own, he bashes the decision maker on the other side. Why? Because it makes him look better to his friend. He’s sympathizing with her while making himself look better. It’s all too often this way in the IT field :( 

Perhaps our government likes to buy American. Don’t starve the hand that feeds you. Perhaps the ‘grant’ that funded the notebooks might stipulate the brand (Very typical). Our government is a twisted jumbled ball of red tape. I’m not saying that they there is not a better solution out there. I’m saying there’s no need to bash the HP notebook based on the implementation of a single scenario in which the notebook was involved.

There could be 3474905723894 other reasons why they did what they did. The real question is: why does he feel compelled to post an article about why he can do better to THG readers? The whole article sounds narcissistic to me. What a waste of time.

More about : bad tom article

March 6, 2006 5:55:20 PM

I think it was a superb article. I myself am often perplexed by the decisions made and the reasons (or lack of reasons) behind them.

BTW, I'm curious, is Whizzard9992 someone in the chain of command that designed that system?
March 6, 2006 5:58:37 PM

Quote:
go to another site.


smart guy :) 

u dont liek the reviews here fin danotehr site thats why god made google

also who is their right mind would buy a big laotop they are called laptops for a reason so u can put it in ur lap and WORK, i would never waste money on a gaming laptop guy a cheap Centrino laptop small do work go home an dplay on a custom built rig
Related resources
March 6, 2006 6:30:41 PM

Quote:
although you touched upon the reason he wrote the article i dont think you got it. if you want to discuss hardware then look in the hardware section or go to another site.

this really gets to me that some people do not undestand that TOMS HAS CHANGED. IT IS NO LONGER JUST REVIEWING HARDWARE. that was why it made all the new sections so it could address issues not only related to physical hardware but to the issues affecting the whole industry.

I must have missed the disclaimer between the "11 pound pencil" and the picture of the dv4000. I guess the people that make it to this article from google are meant to read between the lines? If I was looking to buy a dv4000 and I saw this article, I would definately take it into consideration. The THG authors need to accept some for of professional responsibility for what they write.

Quote:
as you have said the reviewer thought in the right circumstances it was a good DESKTOP REPLACMENT notebook. it is not a lightweight notebook for use in the field. the author was trying to point out the flaw in managers in an organisation who do not have the expertise, deciding the methods that people do their jobs.

Who is he to say that the people with the expertise weren't consulted? I use the dv4000 in the field and it has an excellent battery life and is very light. I've had no problems with it. Are there solutions that may have been better? It's possible, but then he doesn't have all of the facts, does he? (Unless, of course, he knows about the specific contract dealings of the government).

He's saying in this article, "I could have done better" without all of the facts.

Quote:
please note how he mentions that the I.T consultancy firm they use was not even asked for their EXPERT opinion on what should be used. nor was the actual end users of this product consulted.

Maybe they didn't have a choice. Maybe it was "HP or nothing" because they got special pricing. Assumption is the mother of all f-ups. They didn't consult the end users so they didn't do thier job right. Sure. He knows everything about everything.

Quote:
THIS WAS NOT AN ATTEMPT AT BASHING THAT NOTEBOOK. the author was merely using an example to illustrate a growing trend in the workplace. he deliberately used that notebook as far as i can tell BECAUSE he gave it a good review when it is used for the purpose it was intended for. if you asked a hp representative if the market they intended the notebook to be used by was the mobile workforce they would be the first to say it was not.


Another assumption.
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_ser...

That doesn't look like they're pushing it as a desktop replacement computer. Again, I use mine out in the field and I love it.

Quote:
the author was trying to make a valid point about the bad implentation of technolgy in the effort to streamline tasks. re-read the article taking into account it is not about technology or a review of that particular notebook and then judge weather or not the author was right to write it.


Then the article shouldn't have been named "Who designed this crap?" with a picture of the dv4000 next to it. That's misleading.

I'll also note that the author referenced an x60 notebook that retails for more than twice the price of the dv4000. Yeah, sure, if he wants to recommend a notebook to someone $600 or $800 isn't that much. When you're buying 100 notebooks, you need to justify the extra $60,000 to your boss when you put in the purchase order.

Boss> "Why is XXX twice as expensive as YYYY?"

"The notebooks are lighter"

Boss> "How does that help? Will they be able to do more faster?"

"No. Thier arms won't get so tired, and there will be a slight loss in battery life."

Boss> "There's a good website you should check out. It's monster.com"

Quote:
BTW, I'm curious, is Whizzard9992 someone in the chain of command that designed that system?


No, but I I'm a professional consultant and I work for corporations and the gov't all the time. I hate it when outside consultants critisize other people's work without knowing ANYTHING about the financial or business requriements. In the REAL world, there might not be finding for an access system or something better than excel. What if the thought was "We don't have funding for the whole thing. Let's just justify the laptops for now and we'll conquer the rest during the next fiscal period."

I hate know-it-alls, and I hate it more when they critisize things they know nothing about. To add insult to injury, it's the dv4000 that takes a lot of the heat in the article.
March 6, 2006 6:34:02 PM

Quote:
also who is their right mind would buy a big laotop they are called laptops for a reason so u can put it in ur lap and WORK,


Maybe because they need the power on the go. I run SQL server and Visual Studio on my laptop, so I need something with kick.

Quote:
i would never waste money on a gaming laptop guy a cheap Centrino laptop small do work go home an dplay on a custom built rig


It's not a gaming machine. Mine uses the integrated Intel gfx chipset. How is that 'gamer hardware' exactly?
March 6, 2006 7:09:34 PM

Sorry the article offended your precious sensibilities about your laptop. If you thought that article was a review of the DV4000 in any way, you need to go back to reading comprehension class.

I too am a consultant and understand the processes involved. I also hate having to go on a project and clean up messes like these becuase the proper work wasn't done in the first place. Not just the laptop suze/type, but the whole system and process from end to end stunk.
March 6, 2006 7:32:45 PM

I see lots of room for improvement in government operations that could be streamlined and save me the taxpayers money, but every attempt whether success or failure never comes back as a real savings since more new departments are needed for implementation of the cost saving improvements. :wink:
March 6, 2006 7:44:27 PM

Whizzard you obviously didn't get the point of the article. The guy said that the laptop was a good laptop. The point of the article was to point out how a lot of groups and companies just go out and spend thousands of dollars on equipment without first analyzing what their employees actually need. And then when the employees do need something, they don't spend the money. He pointed out how instead of doing something to make their jobs easier, although that was the goal, they instead further complicated the process the people had to go through to do their job.

You are obviously someone who has never had a job or are really poor at yours.

As far as did the article need to be written? Maybe no but maybe yes. By writing the article he can hope that some other manager or IT guy who reads the article and was thinking about doing the same thing, will bother to rethink whether what they're about to do will actually help their employees productivity or not. If not, what will.
March 6, 2006 10:40:56 PM

Quote:
Whizzard you obviously didn't get the point of the article. The guy said that the laptop was a good laptop. The point of the article was to point out how a lot of groups and companies just go out and spend thousands of dollars on equipment without first analyzing what their employees actually need. And then when the employees do need something, they don't spend the money. He pointed out how instead of doing something to make their jobs easier, although that was the goal, they instead further complicated the process the people had to go through to do their job.

As far as did the article need to be written? Maybe no but maybe yes. By writing the article he can hope that some other manager or IT guy who reads the article and was thinking about doing the same thing, will bother to rethink whether what they're about to do will actually help their employees productivity or not. If not, what will.


You make yourself an easy target :)  I guess I should say the same about myself, but w/e.

He was wrong to post the article and he was wrong about his conclusions for the simple fact that you cannot properly analyze a solution without first knowing all of the business requirements. Those requirements include financial and political constraints. There were entirely too many assumptions made, and my original point was that this type of writing belongs in a BLOG and not as a professional article, which can easily be misunderstood as a review of the dv4000 to the casual reader. It's "Toms hardware guide", not "Toms process management review."

It's that simple.

There's no question about it that 95% of technical implementations are flawed for many, many reasons. The foremost reason being the same thinking behind this article, and that's "I know better than everyone else."

There are many problems within corporate structures and our government that pervent the perfect implementation from occuring. We don't need an article telling us what (most of us) see everyday. If I wanted to see a problem explanied, and learn from it, there are plenty of case-studies out there I can read without having to troll through someone's 3rd party perspective of "What's brokded and who brokded it."

Quote:
You are obviously someone who has never had a job or are really poor at yours.


Right. You drew that conclusion how? I work in the REAL world. I'm not stuck in a cube everyday working on the same project or tele-commuting. I consult for LARGE companies and the gov't. I can make an objective opinion from both perspectives. I'm not denying there are problems, but articles like this make things WORSE, not BETTER. It promotes ignorance and encourages people to assume the worst case scenario instead of trying to identify the facts before drawing conclusions (e.g. Scientific Theory). This article is more about self-glorification and venting frustration than it is about educating people about stuff they don't know.
March 6, 2006 10:45:11 PM

agreed. since when its THG a website for blogs and bitching like children about a small weight problem with a notebook. ive never used it, or almost any notebook for that matter. but if u cant carry 11 pounds then maybe u shouldnt be allowed to carry a laptop at all, i know 4 is a lot easier to hold than 11, but if there giving u a 1000 dollar laptop, why do u find it nessary to bitch? look at the thinkpad, weighs what 3-4 pounds, with crappiest stuff in it (celeron low end, 256 memory, integrated video 40 gig 4200hd) it whats? 1400 bux? u see the p4 hp one for 1000 and offers probably close to twice the perforamance for less, who gives a shit about weight.

this article was a waste of bandwith
March 6, 2006 10:50:11 PM

Quote:
agreed. since when its THG a website for blogs and bitching like children about a small weight problem with a notebook. ive never used it, or almost any notebook for that matter. but if u cant carry 11 pounds then maybe u shouldnt be allowed to carry a laptop at all, i know 4 is a lot easier to hold than 11, but if there giving u a 1000 dollar laptop, why do u find it nessary to bitch? look at the thinkpad, weighs what 3-4 pounds, with crappiest stuff in it (celeron low end, 256 memory, integrated video 40 gig 4200hd) it whats? 1400 bux? u see the p4 hp one for 1000 and offers probably close to twice the perforamance for less, who gives a **** about weight.

this article was a waste of bandwith


You've obviously never used a laptop on a daily basis or traveled with one. Weight does make a huge difference in some cases.

As for whether the article Should have been written, probably not. On the other hand, I don't think it's nearly as misleading or disastrous as some would have us believe.
March 6, 2006 11:03:36 PM

rofl ur saying 11 pounds is too much to carry on a regular basis? wow. how dainty can u people be. my backpack weighs like 20 pounds i have tons of books in them and its not so heavy that i have to carry it with wheels, 11 pounds is not heavy, its like a gallon of milk. maybe if u were walking to work and back itd be too much but im sure he/she is carrying it no more than 300 feet at a time
March 6, 2006 11:20:06 PM

Quote:
rofl ur saying 11 pounds is too much to carry on a regular basis? wow. how dainty can u people be. my backpack weighs like 20 pounds i have tons of books in them and its not so heavy that i have to carry it with wheels, 11 pounds is not heavy, its like a gallon of milk. maybe if u were walking to work and back itd be too much but im sure he/she is carrying it no more than 300 feet at a time



You'd be surprised how much 11 pounds works wonders on your back. I carried an inspiron 1100 (roughly 10 pounds) 6 blocks to school and back every weekday and after a while you begin to develop nasty back aches. And a backpack doesn't compare to a carriyng case, they work different muscles of the back and sides.

also, the person who started this thread should have a good read of the article again, the article says that the laptop wasn't suitable for her working standards where she had to carry the laptop back and forth from the office. Like for instance, 10 pounds to me became a great hassle after a week of doing it, and i'm a pretty hefty guy compared to others. So even if it was 6 to 4 pounds, it would still be hard for a woman(feminists, i have a cross... enough said) The laptop that was given to her was something you wouldn't bring back home on a regular basis and i'm pretty sure he didn't say anything bad about the laptop although the article does bring on the thought of him saying somethign bad about the laptop when he was really just talking about the "system the non-profit group thought up". Hopefully i'm not repeating what others have said because i didn't read the other replies.
March 6, 2006 11:25:27 PM

You are obviously clueless kid. Maybe when you get out of school and actually have to use one, you'll understand. Its not so much the weight overall as the size and weight.

The weight does contribute when you have it in a carry-on that you got to lug around airports for hours along with project binders, CD, spare clothes, and all the other road warrior stuff.

Size is more the issue, and lighter notebooks are usually smaller. Its much nicer to pull out a smaller laptop while you are on an airplane to do a few minutes work (You will learn what that is in a few years). Aside from that, often times lighter/smaller laptops get better battery life, which can be critical when working in an airport/on a plane/in a car.
March 6, 2006 11:27:12 PM

Here's a question:

What the hell business do school-age kids have chiming in on an article about working conditions when they don't have a clue what a real work environment is, or the issues that people face??
March 6, 2006 11:38:29 PM

@ ccanadian, 6 blocks is hella far, this guy was prob haulin it from his car to work, what a distance of 100 feet?

@ hergieburber my age doesnt matter u douche, i work at hp, my dad owns a 11+ pound hp laptop and hes about as weak as i am (im pretty brittle) and doesnt complain about the weight, only a dainty ass bitch would. stop insulting my age because ive never been in the coorperate world, i dont see waht that has to do with the article... oh wait yes i do, they looked to save a few bux by adding a few pounds of weight, i dont think they expected the people to whine like 2 year olds because of it. if they dont like the FREE desktop replacement they got, then why dont they go buy a nice 3 pound ibm? for work on the go, she may require a demanding app, maybe the kids so biased he forgot to meantion shes a hardcore photoshop user or somthing, a slow computer would be bad in that case, sacrificing weight for perforamnce is ok in my book.
March 6, 2006 11:57:15 PM

Quote:
Here's a question:

What the hell business do school-age kids have chiming in on an article about working conditions when they don't have a clue what a real work environment is, or the issues that people face??


Wow. Who are you to say they don't understand or deserve an opinion?

My dv4000 is the SAME dimensions as a normal laptop, and is 7 lbs. My power supply and case MAYBE add a pound. Now I carry it (it looks gay if a guy straps it on his shoulders) and my arms don't get tired, and I'm not a strong guy. If a woman can carry a PURSE with 534257302957 items in it, she can carry a laptop that's lighter than the comperable briefcase. If she doesn't like it I'm sure your femenist friends would have some good advice for her.

Besides, if it wasn't an 11lb laptop, wouldn't she have to lug around a briefcase that's much heavier? I'm SURE that's what she was doing before, unless she was scribbling it on her arms.

Could the hardware have been better? Possibly. But we don't have all of the facts, and it's not the authors place to say that someone f*ed up. It's not an isssue about weight. It's about putting up a title that says, "Who designed this crap? The 11lb pencil" next to a picture of a dv4000, and then pursue critisizing some implementation that the author doesn't fully understand.

The point I'm trying to make is that the quality of THG "Articles" are on the sharp decline, and to see if THG readers agree or disagree. This isn't an article: it's a blog entry. Moreover, regardless of personal opinions, if you put the title "Who designed this crap" next to a picture of a computer, people will think the computer is crap. Not everyone reads the entire contents of every article they come across.
March 7, 2006 12:03:10 AM

Quote:
@ ccanadian, 6 blocks is hella far, this guy was prob haulin it from his car to work, what a distance of 100 feet?

@ hergieburber my age doesnt matter u douche, i work at hp, my dad owns a 11+ pound hp laptop and hes about as weak as i am (im pretty brittle) and doesnt complain about the weight, only a dainty ass bitch would. stop insulting my age because ive never been in the coorperate world, i dont see waht that has to do with the article... oh wait yes i do, they looked to save a few bux by adding a few pounds of weight, i dont think they expected the people to whine like 2 year olds because of it. if they dont like the FREE desktop replacement they got, then why dont they go buy a nice 3 pound ibm? for work on the go, she may require a demanding app, maybe the kids so biased he forgot to meantion shes a hardcore photoshop user or somthing, a slow computer would be bad in that case, sacrificing weight for perforamnce is ok in my book.


Ouch dude, harsh insults.

The article states that she and most users use the laptop as a glorified notebook. Your age affects the fact that you don't know what its like to travel to a bunch of sites in a day or spend 12 hours in a day in airports/on planes traveling and lugging stuff around. I've used 12, 8, and 6.5 lb laptops, and I much prefer the 6.5 lb one. Its not a matter of whether you can, but which is best for your situation.

There is nothing wrong with desktop replacement laptops, or sacrificing weight for performance. My non-work laptop weighs a little under 12 lbs. Most desktop replacement laptops are not aimed toward people that travel all the time for work. The issue being discussed is the failure of the company to find the right tool for the job.

Besides, the point of the article is that they didn't plan or research properly, and most likely they spent more than they needed to. They possibly could have got away with using tablet PCs or even high powered palms for cheaper, but they never did the research.
March 7, 2006 12:08:01 AM

It's obvious they don't understand by what they said. If they had chimed in with information that showed any understanding, then I wouldn't say a word.

The issue isn't even really the weight at all. Its the point that it was a half-assed system in the first place. We don't have all the facts, but as a fellow consultant, I am sure if you looked past being upset about what you saw, you would see that the solution sucks.

As I said previsously, the article probably shouldn't have been written, and you are right, it is a blog entry. A lot of Tom's smaller articles have been that way lately. However, the author does make some valid points...
March 7, 2006 12:19:23 AM

Welp.. to throw in my 2 cents, I'd say, since I've been in the corporate world, the lighter notebook would serve as a better tool.

Need the right tool for the right job, I usually say.

Usually lighter notebooks will have longer battery life, and people that work out in the field that travel allot, are going to appreciate that machine, much much more, then a heavy brick, that needs to be plugged into the wall to recharge the battery. (which they might not have an outlet to plug into, where they need to get the job done)
March 7, 2006 12:29:29 AM

so whoever disagrees with u is obviously wrong and isnt experienced? im not saying a lighter notebook wouldnt be nice, but the girl is getting a free 3.4 ghz p4 notebook, if i recall the specs correctly. thats pretty much the fastest notebook processor out there. like i said he never really gave the details of what she does, i didnt read the entire article but i remember him saying she typed up stuff, in that case why wouldnt they stick her with a celeron with 256 memory? its not because managment is so disattached they duno whats gonig on, no matter how far apart, they have an idea of what she would use it for. they probably thought she would beifit from the fast dekstop processor over the lighter notebook. nowhere that i read did it say she traveled like crazy, it said she had to type up notes on the job, why she didnt type them in word is beyond me, maybe she just doesnt know what shes doing and the company does? i know a 2000 dollar 5 pound laptop would be easier to carry around, but an 11 pound 1000 dollar laptop thats argurably faster, to the company is more of a bargin, and what do they care there not using it. u obviously lack little experience in the cooperate world because they try to save money any means they can.

@ Whizzard9992

100% agree man. if anyone has ever carried a womens purse its amazing how much they can weigh, close to if not more than 11 pounds on average i bet, its funny how when she doesnt get the 2 pound fashion designed laptop she complains to her friend who shows compassion to get pun, this is obviously written because he wanted some, because in no way is this "mobility guru" this is purely an opinion of ONE user and like whiz said, disses a perfectly good product, even if its overweight. it says "desktop replacement" for a reason, if she lugs it around everywhere maybe she should consider buying one herself instead of complaining to every1 that doesnt matter. maybe the author will buy her one.

this article and thread is a total joke, just one reason why many THG posters and long time readers are no longer reading.
March 7, 2006 12:51:45 AM

Quote:
thats argurably faster, to the company is more of a bargin, and what do they care there not using it. u obviously lack little experience in the cooperate world because they try to save money any means they can.


I never said whoever disagrees with my is wrong and inexperienced. I said the fact that you keyed in on the laptop being 11 lbs as the major issue means you missed the point of the article. You are entitled to your valid opinion, but you missed the whole point of the article, most likely becuase of your age and experience.

If you really think that management always knows what the people in the fields need, then you really haven't seen much. I have consulted tons of places and worked other where management didn't have a clue.

It does say she travels a lot for work, since she pretty much works from here car.

The point I made is that they weren't saving money. They lost money in lost productivity with a crappy system, and they could have bought cheaper hardware that would do the job. They could have bought Dell Latitude that would more than do the job at half the weight for $1100 before the discount (And a decent consultant/systems guy can always get at least 8-12 % from Dell on bulk orders).

As far as working in the corporate world, I got a lot more experience and insights there than you do, and you are being a bit naive about how things work. Corporate efforts to save money often result in higher costs due to lack of management understanding.
March 7, 2006 1:08:14 AM

so what is the point of the article? oh wait, there isnt one, no matter how deep u dig, there is no point. this article was written in his spare time, probably while he was drunk and wanted to impress a girl. this article was a waste of bandwith and has no valid arguements or points at no point in his entire 4 page rant. just because one user found the DESKTOP REPLACEMENT laptop to be too heavy for some whimpy girl doesnt mean u can diss the entire laptop and call it a giant pencil, if anything its the most powerful paperweight in the world, but by no means a pencil. i guess what he meant by that was that she used it as a pencil (typing notes and such) and in that case like i said, instead of writing an article of this pointlessness why not buy her a 400 dollar compaq laptop that weighs 7 pounds so she will stop complaining and making every1 in the THG website have to look at that and wonder "what does he mean by that" he should be fired for posting such a biased title to a laptop that he didnt even review, i dont caer what u say hergiebyrbur about ur experience, i dont give a shit how old u are or how long uve been in the buisness, making a completly biased title like that, alone should be fired. or at least taken off to save THG from further embarissment. even if he reviewed the laptop, and it was total piece of shit, thers somthing called common curtosy, u dont go dissing a piece of hardware when you havnt even fucking used it urself. like i said, this excuse for an author should be fired and never allowed to publish anything again.
March 7, 2006 1:14:07 AM

You're right, the article shouldn't have been written. It was basically a blog rant about how stupid many corporate (and more so government/non profit) processes can be. I do agree with him on that note.

I don't think he was dissing the laptop itself, as the laptop definately has a place (though it wasn't the ideal choice in this case).

And I don't exactly understand what my level of Experience has to do with this guy writing the article's title (you kind of lost me there). :D 
March 7, 2006 1:14:55 AM

I got a question, why bleep out some of the swear words and not all of them??
March 7, 2006 1:18:31 AM

u were saying how im not experienced. it beeps them for soem reason, maybe some miss the filter? i duno... its THG doing it tho not my comp... in his article he didnt actually diss the machine, but like wiz said, people searching on google for the laptop, see the title that basially says, this laptop is crap, would probably steer clear, even though the article doesnt put down the laptop, the title puts it down plenty.
March 7, 2006 1:20:40 AM

I read the article and found it interesting that you think he is critisizing the notebook itself. He basically said that it was not the right tool for the right job and that is all. In addition his friend works for a non-profit which has dealings with the government but is not necessarily a government agency. So I suggest that you get off your high horse and just calm down. I actually liked the article and found it rather amusing. I can relate to it in certain respects in my day to day activities at my work place. So you are certainly entitled to your opinion as am I, but in the end you really don't matter do you?
March 7, 2006 1:28:58 AM

Quote:
u were saying how im not experienced. it beeps them for soem reason, maybe some miss the filter? i duno... its THG doing it tho not my comp... in his article he didnt actually diss the machine, but like wiz said, people searching on google for the laptop, see the title that basially says, this laptop is crap, would probably steer clear, even though the article doesnt put down the laptop, the title puts it down plenty.


For the most part, I think people that take the time to research their potential purchase on Google would also read more than just the title of the article.

I did say you aren't experienced, as in you are a bit naive about the corporate world. I did say its an insult, since you can't really help it, and it doesn't prevent you from being insightful. However, when your comments show your inexperience, I feel like I should set you straight to help you learn something. Admittedly, I can be a bit forceful.
March 7, 2006 1:50:54 AM

I have a quick question - this woman was a social worker and they had to write a grant for the laptops. That implies they're on a budget. The two other laptops suggested in the article, the Fujitsu and the Thinkpad, cost at least TWICE as much as the HP. The Thinkpad is closer to 3 times the price. How could the author suggest an $1800USD laptop to replace a $700USD one?

SO--> What's the most portable/smallest/best battery life laptop available for ~$700USD?
March 7, 2006 2:00:49 AM

This thread kinda took on a life of its own.

Thanks to everyone for thier opinions.

I think it's important that people like the author bring problems like this to light. Change requires ambition and risk. I don't think this was the proper place for it, though, and I do think that the title was merely overlooked in how it relates to the particular dv4000 model. Nonetheless, for a site as reputable as THG, there should be more oversight.

I'm looking to help change THG for the better; I'm not looking for a firefight. There should be more oversight into what articles are published, and what those articles should contain so that the THG reader base is defined. There is obviously no editor reviewing these articles.

Check out my poll here, and cast your vote.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/POLL-Toms-Artic...

Thanks.
March 7, 2006 2:14:11 AM

Quote:
SO--> What's the most portable/smallest/best battery life laptop available for ~$700USD?


You can get and Inspiron 1300 from Dell with a Celeron M 370, XP Pro, 256MB RAM, and a larger battery that is 6.67lbs for $723.

Its a crappy laptop, but it fits the bill for their needs and price.
a c 102 à CPUs
March 7, 2006 2:18:03 AM

I have carried around a 9-pound Gateway 600 for almost four years and don't really regret it. It's heavy, it doesn't fit that great on little desks, but it has a large keyboard and a large screen. It's not ridiculous like the 17"+ notebooks you see today, but it's still pretty big. It was very fast when it came out in 2002 and still does an okay job at taking notes with.

However, I can't stand my brother'sold Sony VAIO V505 or new Dell 700m as they are much too small to type on. A 12" screen cuts in a lot on the keyboard space possible.
March 7, 2006 2:18:34 AM

I think it's great he did that article. Might bring more people around to seeing how governement and non-profs waste money and ignore their staff. That's what it was written for.

I've worked with over 200 gov agencies, schools to jails, none do things even remotely right (jails are the most fun, remote flush toilets and cool security cams :) ). You are correct that some have things they have to stick to, but NEVER have I seen brand one of them unless something is donated or offered very cheap. HP would be one of the last companies I looked at for anything like this. Even if that laptop is a good one (never seen it), he's simply showing how management failed it's employees.

And I have to agree about the kids and their opinions. If I were still in college I wouldn't mind an 11 pound laptop, but out in the real world with all of my other tools, folders, test equipment, I need a light laptop to make up for it. My two bags are around 30lbs, another 5 is just too much (maybe it's my age?)
March 7, 2006 2:31:21 AM

hergieburbur - the DV4000 is listed as the same weight as that Inspiron.

The hypothetical 11lbs. includes an extra battery, AC adapter, laptop case, and who knows what else.
March 7, 2006 2:33:13 AM

Sooooo, everything you'd take with anyway, what's your point?
March 7, 2006 2:35:22 AM

The point is the author of the article ridiculed the choice of laptop and couldn't come up with a viable alternative (within the same price range).
March 7, 2006 2:39:56 AM

Yeah, that's not the point though. His point was that the laptop was not necessary, she went back to using paper and pencil and typing it later.

Hence him not bothering to come up with a better solution when the original was the best. He ridiculed the laptop usage not the laptop.

So figure a pound for a nice notebook and pen, the weight issue is a dead end here. Unless they could use a pda with a foldable keyboard, eurika! There's your solution! :) 
March 7, 2006 2:40:19 AM

For the work they have to do, how about a high-end palm? There are Palm database applications that could handle their needs very nicely.
March 7, 2006 2:42:49 AM

Sure but most people in her position probably will have less success with pda's than laptop's, unless they have the foldable keyboard :) . Or if they have a very structured "fill in the blanks with preformed answers" setup like wally world's auto department. :)  And ya just know they will go through stili like mad!
March 7, 2006 2:45:27 AM

Now we're talkin'. That's a good suggestion that may or may not work. I think one of whizzard's point is just that - the dude wrote the article (which was more of a rant) and did nothing but critisize w/o offering any reasonable suggestions as to how the job could've been better.

The palm idea sounds great - but again, we don't know the details so we can't say conclusively "That HP was a stupid idea, they should've gotten Palms."

Just as the author of that article was naive to say "That HP was a stupid idea, they should've gotten Thinkpad X60s."

The article could've gotten the point across in a way more productive fashion than it did.
March 7, 2006 2:45:50 AM

That's what I was getting at. If they had talked to their network consultants, they may have come up with a folding keyboard/fill in the blanks type app.

But then, that would make sense.
March 7, 2006 2:50:08 AM

Can't argue that, but it's fun to try :) 

Critisizum leads to better ideas, he may not have felt like he should come up with the "proper" procedure, instead he just wanted to bring the general issues to light for everyone to ponder. Like we are. Weird huh?

Quote:
hergieburbur: But then, that would make sense.

Damn straight, and we can't have that in a Democracy!
March 7, 2006 2:50:17 AM

That's true - but the bottom line is that we simply don't know what the exact requirements were.

A perfectly valid scenario is that they only had $700-800 to spend and they had to run Windows XP Pro so the laptops could work on the office network.

If that were true, then the DV4000 may, in fact, have been one of the best fits for their requirements. Agreed?
March 7, 2006 2:54:42 AM

I don't know, a palm or windows mobile device would be cheaper and still work fine, might have to get a decent db backend, but that could be used for more than this, and palm clients could be had for cheap. I use a windows mobile device on a bunch of my networks for similar data entry things, inventory control, trouble ticket generation for clients, etc. I just plug it in and the data goes to my central db's on site. Simple, cheap, effective. It is an HP iPaq but I got it for $100 :) 
March 7, 2006 3:00:43 AM

See, you're generating some good ideas that could possibly work for those social workers.

The problem is that's far more than I can say for the author of the article. He should've done more research and presented the problem in an objective way with realistic solutions.

Instead, he ranted and insulted whoever came up with the idea and the only suggestion he made was to buy smaller laptops that were 2 or 3 times the price. That's hardly an article worth writing or reading.
March 7, 2006 3:02:47 AM

Ok, I agree, he should have thrown in something I still think it was a worthwhile read if not only to show others how bad some of this stuff can be.
March 7, 2006 3:03:46 AM

Quote:
That's true - but the bottom line is that we simply don't know what the exact requirements were.

A perfectly valid scenario is that they only had $700-800 to spend and they had to run Windows XP Pro so the laptops could work on the office network.

If that were true, then the DV4000 may, in fact, have been one of the best fits for their requirements. Agreed?


It is entirely possible that the DV4000 was the best fit for their situation. it's just not lilely, and not what I would have come up with.
March 7, 2006 3:06:18 AM

That's true - and some of this stuff can be quite bad.

But any monkey in the zoo can point out problems and jump up and down screaming and throwing crap around.

If you don't do your research and write realistically and thoughtfully to educate your readers and suggest possible solutions, stick with the monkeys and don't write articles on prominent tech sites.
March 7, 2006 3:16:09 AM

Quote:
That's true - but the bottom line is that we simply don't know what the exact requirements were.


^^ That's the underlying point. Anyone can solve a problem. There are some very good ideas in this thread alone. Solving a problem with constraints is why we get paid the big $$$$$$, and also why we shouldn't critisize, unless we know the base requirements (and unless it's in a public forum like this, where it's appropriate).

I just want to see real articles on THG. At least tell me WHY you're recommending the other models. I can read rants all day on myspace.
March 7, 2006 11:09:28 AM

I don´t really want to comment this article, just to discuss weight.
I saw people here talking about speed, gaming laptops etc....
Why the hell do u have allways to come up with speed and gfx cards? Remember that 90% or so of you posters are gamers. Its a fact.
By now I have to say that my 4.9 pounder iBook G4 never let me down; the heavy work it's done in the G5. For light work and internet browsing etc, it's more than enough and my back is greatefull for that lightwheight! And no, I´m not that weak, I'm also an mma fighter. But the simple fact of being such portable it's wonderful
It´s part of human nature to point flaws in everything, but remember that engineers are doing their best to build better machines, and all we do is bash them... Although weight it's important, some machines can´t be light. If u don´t like it, find a better option...if there is one.
!